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doingitwrong posted:Cool, cool. I'm less interested in galaxy conquering and more interested in space exploration, strange new worlds (I tend to play these grand strategy games more as empire RPGs than as strategy games). So it sounds like I want the base game and Utopia and Leviathans and Distant Stars? Also I'd legitimately recommend picking up the Plantoids pack, it goes on sale for a few bucks fairly regularly and more face variety is good for encountering empires. This is the only game where I suggest people pick up a cosmetic DLC for anything other than completionism.
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Jul 22, 2018 12:27
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How do I console command a crisis out of existence/trigger a different one, if possible? Got the contingency for the eighth time in a row, reloading isn't stopping it, as expected. I'd just like to get the scourge for once.
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Jul 22, 2018 12:30
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Playing a genocidal empire for the first time, determined exterminators. It's fun as hell! But the money drain when cyborgizing pops of newly conquered worlds is so annoying. Also man the galaxy really isn't a fan of me, there's basically me taking up a quarter of the galaxy, one fed, and one mutual defense pact. In a large galaxy. And the fed's already started trying to end the threat wardec me....
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Jul 22, 2018 13:39
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Phobeste posted:Playing a genocidal empire for the first time, determined exterminators. It's fun as hell! But the money drain when cyborgizing pops of newly conquered worlds is so annoying. Also man the galaxy really isn't a fan of me, there's basically me taking up a quarter of the galaxy, one fed, and one mutual defense pact. In a large galaxy. And the fed's already started trying to end the threat wardec me.... I thought DE didn't have the option to assimilate Pops. Only purge them. If anything they should be giving you an energy bonus since the default is to purge by turning them into sentient fuel cells.
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Jul 22, 2018 13:55
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Yeah, sounds like you're playing Driven Assimilators. I remember reading the dev diary on machine empires and not quite getting what was supposed be scary about Driven Assimilators. "Union between technology and biology? Sounds great to me." Took me a while to realise it was literally the Borg.
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Jul 22, 2018 14:16
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Decided to charge forth with the Contingency in full swing. Forgot I set them to quite high crisis strength, so every fleet is a quarter mil and the central defense fleets are 750k. The Caretakers woke up, immediately spawning half a million in fleet strength split up into 70k chunks and declaring open season on the Contingency! We might just do this yet! The Caretakers immediately begin sending their fleets in to attack the closest Machine World! One. By. One.  The fleets jump into the nearest system with a Contingency branch fleet in it and immediately get annihilated one right after another. A single Titan from the final fleet sent in finishes off the last of that single branch fleet and limps home alongside the Colossus. And there they sit, 4k fleet strength around their home ringworld, inert. Amazing. Guess I'll declare war on them and put them out of their misery to get the tech they have, they're too stupid to use it anyways.
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Jul 22, 2018 14:39
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Freudian posted:Yeah, sounds like you're playing Driven Assimilators. Beer4TheBeerGod posted:I thought DE didn't have the option to assimilate Pops. Only purge them. If anything they should be giving you an energy bonus since the default is to purge by turning them into sentient fuel cells. Yeah whoops that's what I meant. THey both start with d so sue me
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Jul 22, 2018 14:47
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Assimilators aren’t genocidal though, they can still make enclave deals and have normal diplomacy (minus rivalries I think). They just get -100 with organics, or -200 if they’re spiritualist. Of course exterminators have normal diplomacy with other machine empires as well. Still, purifiers/devouring swarms/exterminators is generally what people mean when they talk about genocidal empires, even though assimilators also have a total war cb.
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Jul 22, 2018 15:00
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Oh interesting I just kind of assumed that the total war cb meant they were genocidal. Good to know, thanks
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Jul 22, 2018 15:02
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This is incredible. I built up a solid 175k federation fleet to go with my 125k own fleet and had the entire federation's forces at my back. I move in to the edge of the system, prepared to move out to the next system over where a 300k branch fleet was waiting. I right click to move there and....the federation changes hands, all the allied fleets enter the gateway I was right next to and head back to their home systems, the federation fleet DISAPPEARS AND IS INVISIBLE AND INACTIVE(but still shows up on the federation fleet window), and I have scant seconds to pause and stop my fleets from jumping directly into the meat grinder. Incredible. They should just make federations follow your directions all the time instead of when you're the leader. They don't know what the gently caress they're doing anyway, we were all grouped up ready to work together and then the next empire gained control and everyone just hosed off back home without doing anything. I have no words.
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Jul 22, 2018 15:46
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AI federations are garbage, never join one. You pay what, 20% of your naval cap and 2 influence (before discounts) a month for the privilege of being spammed stupid war requests at, and getting screwed over by the AI being useless if you're not president? gently caress that.
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Jul 22, 2018 16:22
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Staltran posted:AI federations are garbage, never join one. You pay what, 20% of your naval cap and 2 influence (before discounts) a month for the privilege of being spammed stupid war requests at, and getting screwed over by the AI being useless if you're not president? gently caress that. Plus you have to consort with the hated xenos. Just not worth imo.
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Jul 22, 2018 16:33
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Captain Invictus posted:How do I console command a crisis out of existence/trigger a different one, if possible? Got the contingency for the eighth time in a row, reloading isn't stopping it, as expected. I'd just like to get the scourge for once. I don't think you can console out a crisis. From what I remember, you have to edit the save file and remove the crisis-specific events, which will allow you to console in the one you want. Searching the file for "crisis" and removing the events and flags it triggers should do it. I did it with The Unbidden once to get them to spawn somewhere else, but I haven't tried the contingency yet so I couldn't tell you how difficult they are to remove.
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Jul 22, 2018 16:55
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I don't have very good fleet cap so the federation fleet was a welcome way to get a serious amount of firepower without requiring significant upkeep. But the AI fucks off with it soon as it gets control (or in this case...makes it invisible???), if it followed my fleet that is marked "follow" that would be fine and dandy, but no. I mostly formed this federation so the two guys I was actually buddies with didn't join the federations of assholes I hate, and I was able to get the guardian of the galaxy awakened fallen empire to join too, which is rad. The problem is, it seems the awakened fallen empires and the awakened caretakers don't actually scale to any of the power sliders during game creation. They've got bunches of 60k fleets which are super strong at default difficulty and crisis strength, but piddly as hell against quarter million strength contingency branch fleets. I hope they fix that, wiz plz
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Jul 22, 2018 16:57
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Federations as implemented are not worth doing. It's such a critical function for roleplaying a xenophile, but I always regret going down that path in the end. The Star Trek mod does an admirable job with the capital-F Federation, basically upgrading you from leader of the human empire to leader of a multi-species alliance with direct control over production and fleets. I know expanding the role and functionality of feds is a stated goal of future patches, so I look forward to that. Until then, though, being a space jerk is the way to play to game!
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Jul 22, 2018 17:06
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Yeah, pretty much. Sucks. Guess I'll have to leave it and take on the task of destroying this obscenely overpowered contingency myself, maybe the idiot AI can swarm enough fleets together to have a go of it too.
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Jul 22, 2018 17:11
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Federations are okay if you're a pacifist in a pacifist federation and you use it as a power score inflation tool to avoid fighting/save on fleet maintenance. Sucks if you actually plan on fighting though, yeah.
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Jul 22, 2018 17:15
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Previously my go to strategy has just been vassalizing my idiot neighbors to form my own pseudo federation where I am permanently in charge.
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Jul 22, 2018 17:18
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isndl posted:Federations are okay if you're a pacifist in a pacifist federation and you use it as a power score inflation tool to avoid fighting/save on fleet maintenance. Sucks if you actually plan on fighting though, yeah. What do you do in 2.0 Stellaris if you are avoiding wars? Do you do anything.
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Jul 22, 2018 17:20
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Chomp8645 posted:What do you do in 2.0 Stellaris if you are avoiding wars? Look at the tile management screen and arrange your pops just so.
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Jul 22, 2018 17:44
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Vengarr posted:Yeah, I don't bother colonizing below 60% habitability. The hit to Tradition and Science gain just doesn't seem worth it for a planet that won't really pay off until gene-modding. You might as well get gene-modding first and then colonize. Personally, I rather spend energy on terraforming than science on gene modding. Terraforming also arrives much earlier than climategene-modding.
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Jul 22, 2018 17:46
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Chomp8645 posted:What do you do in 2.0 Stellaris if you are avoiding wars? Surveying, megastructures, Shroud gambling, watching everyone getting eaten by by a crisis and vacuuming up the now empty space.
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Jul 22, 2018 17:47
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isndl posted:Surveying, megastructures, Shroud gambling, watching everyone getting eaten by by a crisis and vacuuming up the now empty space. So you watch and wait, watch and wait, watch and wait, and finally... watch. Whatever works for you I guess!
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Jul 22, 2018 17:54
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I like federations because you're getting that part of the galaxy under your control without spending loads of influence and faffing around for ages. I also like the idea of being friends with the different AI civs. It's nice. It works towards narrative play. The lack of that is part of the reason I don't like the new Civilization games as much. The only issue I have with them is the lovely messy borders that happen when you attack exterminator races. The federation fleet in my current Fed is 150k strength and when the biggest fleet in the galaxy before was the 60k Great Khan one it was super helpful to get the achievement for killing her because of it! Taear fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Jul 22, 2018 |
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Jul 22, 2018 18:21
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Chomp8645 posted:So you watch and wait, watch and wait, watch and wait, and finally... watch. Same as any Paradox game, isn't it? Play passively watching bars fill up or go warring and micromanage armies/fleets for eternity.
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Jul 22, 2018 18:21
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Captain Invictus posted:I don't have very good fleet cap so the federation fleet was a welcome way to get a serious amount of firepower without requiring significant upkeep. But the AI fucks off with it soon as it gets control (or in this case...makes it invisible???), if it followed my fleet that is marked "follow" that would be fine and dandy, but no. I mostly formed this federation so the two guys I was actually buddies with didn't join the federations of assholes I hate, and I was able to get the guardian of the galaxy awakened fallen empire to join too, which is rad. Do you really want a 5x contingency and also a 5x berserk machine AE attacking you at the same time? Be careful what you wish for. A separate slider for boosting FE/AE strength would be cool though. I feel like these days they just don't scale up high enough to pose a threat most of the time.
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Jul 22, 2018 19:32
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Chomp8645 posted:So you watch and wait, watch and wait, watch and wait, and finally... watch. That's... the entire game if you're being reductive. Not like fleet combat is some wildly engaging micromanagement challenge.
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Jul 22, 2018 19:56
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Yeah, as much as I'm liking the new tile system/economy stuff for the new economy expansion, I was kinda hoping the diplomacy system was going to be the next big expansion. Cause boy, Federations suck, the AI makes weird choices constantly, I constantly feel locked by weird penalties diplomatically, and it just needs a huge overhaul badly. At least maybe, hopefully Wiz will change the fleet cap stuff? Cause having the core system just be "yeah you are supposed to build nonstop Starports and put nothing but Anchorages in them, duh." is the most laffo bad design thing in this game.
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Jul 22, 2018 20:12
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Having the anchorage be a building that scales fleet cap with station size would probably fix the whole "there's only one good way to build this station" problem.
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Jul 22, 2018 20:29
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Staltran posted:Your pops will be barely making back their investment for a good while on any planet. It might take a decade longer on a 20% habitability planet, but as long as it’s making not an active drain on your resources that’s fine. There aren’t that many better investments to make, starbases and starholds I suppose, but the star fortress upgrade is expensive enough that I don’t think that has a better return. So a 20% habitability planet gives its pops -20% production, -20% happiness, and -80% growth (though apparently this is actually only -40% because of Paradox math). Typically this means that your pops will effectively be producing and growing about 2/3 as effectively as on a 60% habitability world. This isn't the end of the world, and it could probably afford to be higher, but it's a pretty significant penalty. Those unhappy pops will also be joining non-government ethics factions which will drive down your influence gain, and can cause a self-reinforcing cycle if you cannot satisfy them. This is all in addition to the effective 5% penalty to science and -20% to unity production empire wide from colonizing the planet in the first place, and effectively another 25% penalty to energy and mineral production from probably having to put that planet in a sector. All in all, it takes a lot of investment to get a planet to pay for itself, even before habitability penalties are considered. I'm all for playing wide and colonizing everything you can, but I'm not convinced that colonizing a planet before you're ready for it is better than using those minerals for fleet or stations or building up other planets and systems.
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Jul 22, 2018 20:34
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Rookersh posted:Yeah, as much as I'm liking the new tile system/economy stuff for the new economy expansion, I was kinda hoping the diplomacy system was going to be the next big expansion. Nothing is more poo poo in Stellaris for me than being a pacifist who is unable to create Federations because everyone has a -50 malus towards you because you can't declare aggressive wars.
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Jul 22, 2018 20:49
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Taear posted:Nothing is more poo poo in Stellaris for me than being a pacifist who is unable to create Federations because everyone has a -50 malus towards you because you can't declare aggressive wars. I'm playing an Inward Perfection pacifist empire and I have to say that if it weren't for the Great Khan I'd have been hella bored by now. The L Space was sadly empty so I really need to start insulting some Fallen Empires.
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Jul 22, 2018 21:02
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Taear posted:Nothing is more poo poo in Stellaris for me than being a pacifist who is unable to create Federations because everyone has a -50 malus towards you because you can't declare aggressive wars. This is why we need militaristic pacifists. You can even have various versions of them based on any fanaticism. I'd like a Fanatic Militarist/Pacifist ethos that basically boils down to "There will be peace, even if we have to murder every last one of you."
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Jul 22, 2018 21:09
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Captain Invictus posted:This is incredible. I built up a solid 175k federation fleet to go with my 125k own fleet and had the entire federation's forces at my back. I move in to the edge of the system, prepared to move out to the next system over where a 300k branch fleet was waiting. I right click to move there and....the federation changes hands, all the allied fleets enter the gateway I was right next to and head back to their home systems, the federation fleet DISAPPEARS AND IS INVISIBLE AND INACTIVE(but still shows up on the federation fleet window), and I have scant seconds to pause and stop my fleets from jumping directly into the meat grinder. Incredible. I can only hope that, along with fixing the tile fuckery, the rumors that the next update will improve diplomacy means that Federations won't be a terrible idea for human players to join. As I see it there's no benefit, whatsoever, from being part of a Federation. Instead it's just a complete mess that results in nothing fun.  WARNING INCOMING WISH FULFILLMENT REQUEST What could be fun is if creating a Federation enabled a completely new style of gameplay, where instead of playing your Empire you have the option to play as the leader of the entire Federation if you're elected. You control the Federation fleet, you manage diplomacy between the members, you encounter all sorts of crazy events, and you send out Federation explorers to boldly go where no one has gone before. Instead of factions you now have entire alien civilizations to deal with, and rebellion could result in the removal of you as the leader and replacement by another. So long as you maintain popularity you stay in control. Lose a civilization, demand too much of your members, or fail in some catastrophic political way and your favor will decrease. That could be a lot of fun.
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Jul 22, 2018 21:15
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Technical Analysis posted:This is why we need militaristic pacifists. You can even have various versions of them based on any fanaticism. I'd like a Fanatic Militarist/Pacifist ethos that basically boils down to "There will be peace, even if we have to murder every last one of you." So you want to play Determined Exterminators?
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Jul 22, 2018 21:16
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Technical Analysis posted:This is why we need militaristic pacifists. You can even have various versions of them based on any fanaticism. I'd like a Fanatic Militarist/Pacifist ethos that basically boils down to "There will be peace, even if we have to murder every last one of you." Isn't that basically a Liberation War? Pacifists are capable of doing those, while fanatic pacifists are not. Some of your factions will object to the war itself, but they don't mind Liberation Wars being permitted. Seems like it's working as you intend.
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Jul 22, 2018 21:20
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Demiurge4 posted:Terraforming is actually in a really weird spot right now. The first tech only lets you change the subtype in the same category. So continental can become jungle or ocean but that's not really useful at all since you can always colonize the planet anyway if you're already in that category. Even worse, when you finally get the tech to terraform a planet to another category, you then need a third tech in order to do it to planets you have already colonized. I've said it before, but I think I'd like it better if Terraforming (and Megastructures and late-game Stations) were projects you kick off for a small initial amount and they eat up a bit of your income until they finish, firing off random events from a pool over time. Terraforming a planet should be something you can do early, but it's a major undertaking that significantly shapes your empire. About the time it picking up another planet stops being a big deal then terraforming can be less of a big deal mechanically and attention-wise (take less time, fire off less events) but their game space is replaced by other empire-shaping undertakings in a similar format, like megastructures etc.
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Jul 22, 2018 21:24
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I dunno a constant input of terraforming materials to terraform a planet would be neat, especially if you could transition it partially to different levels of habitability, like Aurora.
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Jul 22, 2018 21:26
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What I would like to see happen is more ways to interact with your empire as you expand through the galaxy. It would be fun seeing how the culture of your people changes as more species start to become a part of it and how you interact with the rest of the galaxy.
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Jul 22, 2018 21:31
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OwlFancier posted:I dunno a constant input of terraforming materials to terraform a planet would be neat, especially if you could transition it partially to different levels of habitability, like Aurora.
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Jul 22, 2018 22:17
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