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Splicer posted:This reads like a contradiction but your words seem to be agreeing with me? "I'm a little worried it will be overhauled, but the overhaul will be "Need X terraforming gasses/liquids to terraform", which would be... unsatisfying to me." I'd quite like it if there was a terraforming resource that you use to pay maintenence on terraforming, basically, and I hope that the move away from tiles to a pile of basically planetary statistic will facilitate more granular terraforming.
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Jul 22, 2018 22:22
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OwlFancier posted:"I'm a little worried it will be overhauled, but the overhaul will be "Need X terraforming gasses/liquids to terraform", which would be... unsatisfying to me."
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Jul 22, 2018 23:26
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I'm leery of making terraforming more granular when the whole point is that collecting all that energy represents your culture doing all that prep work and paying all the specialists. I like just dumping money and time in one end and getting a machine world out the other.
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Jul 22, 2018 23:39
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wiegieman posted:I'm leery of making terraforming more granular when the whole point is that collecting all that energy represents your culture doing all that prep work and paying all the specialists. I like just dumping money and time in one end and getting a machine world out the other. I think the benefit of a granular system is that the time it takes depends on your access to resources, and it also means it's something you may wish to budget between multiple worlds. Especially if there are other uses for those resource. For example granular terraforming allows the possibility of ecological damage due to exploitation or combat, or events, which can be reversed by terraforming resources but which means that they form a strategic reserve that you may be wary of expending on expansion. You could also make certain extremely hostile worlds become habitable but have them require a constant input of terraforming resources to represent their loss due to the extreme environment, but on the other hand the world may have strong strategic locational or resource value if it allows access to rare materials or forms a major component of a fortification. Granular spending and maintenence using terraforming resources opens up a lot of options for their use outside of one time expenditures to get another planet. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jul 22, 2018 |
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Jul 22, 2018 23:43
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wiegieman posted:I'm leery of making terraforming more granular when the whole point is that collecting all that energy represents your culture doing all that prep work and paying all the specialists. I like just dumping money and time in one end and getting a machine world out the other.
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Jul 22, 2018 23:47
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Granular terraforming also means you could have some kinds of development, such as machine worlds or the pictured coruscant-type planet, be a function of things other than clicking the terraform button. You could make it partly influenced by how much infrastructure development you put on the planet, so that it occurs naturally as you invest heavily into a world. It lets you also choose the level of development you invest in, doing things like having more agrarian worlds be less developed but able to produce food with less maintenence etc. Stripping off water from the atmosphere to make the atmosphere less reflective and increase power output, terraforming it to a desert in the process. Developing lots of agriculture increasing the vegetation level of the world and making it more tropical/temperate. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Jul 22, 2018 |
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Jul 22, 2018 23:51
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isndl posted:Federations are okay if you're a pacifist in a pacifist federation and you use it as a power score inflation tool to avoid fighting/save on fleet maintenance. Sucks if you actually plan on fighting though, yeah. The EU must pay more! 
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Jul 22, 2018 23:59
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Taear posted:Nothing is more poo poo in Stellaris for me than being a pacifist who is unable to create Federations because everyone has a -50 malus towards you because you can't declare aggressive wars. IMHO pacifist should not exist in a game like this. Instead of militarist/pacifist, it should be something like expansionist/isolationist, where expansionist gets stuff like the extra core worlds pacifist does now, and other "wide" play style bonuses like combat themed stuff, and isolationist is more about "tall" play, but they can still declare war and fight.
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Jul 23, 2018 01:13
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Fintilgin posted:IMHO pacifist should not exist in a game like this. Instead of militarist/pacifist, it should be something like expansionist/isolationist, where expansionist gets stuff like the extra core worlds pacifist does now, and other "wide" play style bonuses like combat themed stuff, and isolationist is more about "tall" play, but they can still declare war and fight. Yeah, I agree. At least until such time as there is more actual domestic governance to be done. But in the game as is, you either get into fights over something, or you have nothing to do after the early game survey blitz.
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Jul 23, 2018 01:35
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I would really like a Planet Tug Boat super weapon that lets me jack habitable planets from other systems and move them to my core worlds. No need to terraform if you can just move all your poo poo planets out and move all the enemies nice places in.
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Jul 23, 2018 02:58
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I maintain they should add a new endgame crisis type, very rarely upon cracking a planet SURPRISE it was full of necromorphs.Fintilgin posted:IMHO pacifist should not exist in a game like this. Instead of militarist/pacifist, it should be something like expansionist/isolationist, where expansionist gets stuff like the extra core worlds pacifist does now, and other "wide" play style bonuses like combat themed stuff, and isolationist is more about "tall" play, but they can still declare war and fight. I like this idea.
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Jul 23, 2018 06:08
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Are there any good guides for the New Horizon's mod? Ive played base Stellaris+DLC to hell and back, decided to give it a shot. and Wow it changes everything.
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Jul 23, 2018 06:30
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Kaal posted:So a 20% habitability planet gives its pops -20% production, -20% happiness, and -80% growth (though apparently this is actually only -40% because of Paradox math). Typically this means that your pops will effectively be producing and growing about 2/3 as effectively as on a 60% habitability world. Uhh... How? A 60% habitability planet is still -10% production, -10% happiness, and +40% growth time. You're growing 78% as effectively as on 60%, and even assuming the happiness gives the full -5%, the extra 15% penalty surely doesn't make the 20% planet 2/3 as effective as the 60% one--that would mean the 60% one was at a net -55% modifier. More realistically, it's between 85%-90% efficiency compared to 60% habitability. quote:This isn't the end of the world, and it could probably afford to be higher, but it's a pretty significant penalty. Those unhappy pops will also be joining non-government ethics factions which will drive down your influence gain, and can cause a self-reinforcing cycle if you cannot satisfy them. Can I get a source for this? Nothing I've found indicates happiness affects ethics at all, except for slaves. And as I understand it, pops cannot join factions that don't match their ethics. Also as I noted before, it's not that difficult to keep the pops from being unhappy. quote:This is all in addition to the effective 5% penalty to science and -20% to unity production empire wide from colonizing the planet in the first place, and effectively another 25% penalty to energy and mineral production from probably having to put that planet in a sector. All in all, it takes a lot of investment to get a planet to pay for itself, even before habitability penalties are considered. I'm all for playing wide and colonizing everything you can, but I'm not convinced that colonizing a planet before you're ready for it is better than using those minerals for fleet or stations or building up other planets and systems. Of course there are those penalties, but they're not very large. Especially early game, the sector can likely use the minerals almost as efficiently as you could, and probably the energy too to clear blockers. It's true that all planets are long term investments, but the difference between 20% and 100%, and certainly not 20% and 60%, isn't that large. For example, I currently in a fanatic spiritualist game I started yesterday, I currently have 5 planets and 14 systems in 2217. My unity production is 28.85, and my science is at 24.72/9.28/12.39. Taking a new system and colonizing a planet there would raise my tech cost multiplier form 1.33 to 1.39, and tradition cost multiplier from 1.77 to 1.94 (since I have courier network). In order to compensate for the tradition/tech penalties, I'd need the planet produce about 2.77 unity and 1.12/0.42/0.56 science. So with a temple and a single lab, I'd already be ahead. At 5 pop, admin/temple/lab/farm/mine should cover all costs (except physics, but whatever, it'd help balance my science), and produce a small profit even if there were no tile bonuses.
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Jul 23, 2018 08:47
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Fintilgin posted:IMHO pacifist should not exist in a game like this. Instead of militarist/pacifist, it should be something like expansionist/isolationist, where expansionist gets stuff like the extra core worlds pacifist does now, and other "wide" play style bonuses like combat themed stuff, and isolationist is more about "tall" play, but they can still declare war and fight. Absolutely.
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Jul 23, 2018 11:07
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So I've played EU4 and CK2 before. Is there anything I should read/watch before playing this or should I jump right in? I take it the OP is still accurate and I wanna get Utopia and Apocalypse from the get go.
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Jul 23, 2018 11:39
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Utopia, leviathans should be priority, followed by synthetic dawn, apocalypse, and distant stars.
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Jul 23, 2018 12:37
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Fintilgin posted:IMHO pacifist should not exist in a game like this. Instead of militarist/pacifist, it should be something like expansionist/isolationist, where expansionist gets stuff like the extra core worlds pacifist does now, and other "wide" play style bonuses like combat themed stuff, and isolationist is more about "tall" play, but they can still declare war and fight. I like this, especially since civics would still give everyone room to create warrior nations. The problem is that so many mechanics/texts are tied to the ethics at this point that I don't think it's feasible to replace any of them, since that's a way bigger change than the one to auth-ega. Pigbuster fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 12:44
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It's my first game with the new war system. I see my war exhaustion going up even though I keep taking and keeping enemy systems. Is it a permanent feature that stations do not cause attrition to the enemy? It seems so counter intuitive. I take their systems and I keep getting tired of the war.. They just celebrate having to manage less. How am i supposed to win if all I want is to take a couple of border systems with nothing but mines in them?
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Jul 23, 2018 12:44
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SirTagz posted:It's my first game with the new war system. If all you want from a war are the systems you captured, and you have claims on them, then you'll be fine because you should keep those systems upon a status quo peace.
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Jul 23, 2018 12:53
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Staltran posted:Uhh... How? A 60% habitability planet is still -10% production, -10% happiness, and +40% growth time. You're growing 78% as effectively as on 60%, and even assuming the happiness gives the full -5%, the extra 15% penalty surely doesn't make the 20% planet 2/3 as effective as the 60% one--that would mean the 60% one was at a net -55% modifier. More realistically, it's between 85%-90% efficiency compared to 60% habitability. Fair enough, colonize whatever you want. Seems like the habitability system doesn't mean much.
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Jul 23, 2018 12:54
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What I'd really like is for Naval Capacity to be removed from the measure of relative power, because really what the gently caress, and have an economic score there instead. Mostly because it really shits me when I can't vassalise an empire because their naval capacity is preventing them from being deemed comparatively 'weak' enough, despite them having no ships and lagging massively behind on research.
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Jul 23, 2018 12:58
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Pigbuster posted:If all you want from a war are the systems you captured, and you have claims on them, then you'll be fine because you should keep those systems upon a status quo peace. Ah, thanks
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Jul 23, 2018 12:58
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Pigbuster posted:I like this, especially since civics would still give everyone room to create warrior nations. The problem is that so many mechanics/texts are tied to the ethics at this point that I don't think it's feasible to replace any of them, since that's a way bigger change than the one to auth-ega. Honestly, i think it works better than the current setup, Inward Perfection now being an ethic combo of Isolationist-Xenophobe, and agrarian idyll makes faaar more sense as a "We dont trade much, so food production as lifestyle stuck around" rather than some half assed energy swords to space plowshares attempt.
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Jul 23, 2018 13:39
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I'd like to see more alternatives to war, myself. I like a pacifist play style, myself. Ive had games where ive never declared war on anybody, but there's not a lot to do midgame or lategame other than shoot at each other.
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Jul 23, 2018 14:04
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https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1021382423689531392?s=19 SPACE DENMARK IS GO Edit: 'Unemployment Subsidies" is amusing inasmuch as I assume it means pops now don't stop growing and if they're not shipped off world will start running out of factories to work in. Clearly, futureStellaris subscribes to the Lump of Labour fallacy.
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Jul 23, 2018 14:28
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can't wait to set all my pops to utopian abundance
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Jul 23, 2018 14:35
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Aethernet posted:https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1021382423689531392?s=19 The "all effects must be false" is an awkward way to put things, but I guess it's less verbose.
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Jul 23, 2018 14:42
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So looking at that it seems that the highest strata of POPs (rulers?) always have a high luxury maintenance that is not affected by policies(?) and that the living standards policy adjusts how much luxuries the lower strata of POPs need in upkeep, presumably up to utopian abundance where they are either equal or close to equal in maintenance with the upper class. Academic privilege then probably works as before in that it makes those POPs doing research happier and makes them more effective at research at the cost of higher maintenance.
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Jul 23, 2018 15:43
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Randarkman posted:So looking at that it seems that the highest strata of POPs (rulers?) always have a high luxury maintenance that is not affected by policies(?) and that the living standards policy adjusts how much luxuries the lower strata of POPs need in upkeep, presumably up to utopian abundance where they are either equal or close to equal in maintenance with the upper class. Academic privilege then probably works as before in that it makes those POPs doing research happier and makes them more effective at research at the cost of higher maintenance. https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1021383519946395648
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Jul 23, 2018 15:54
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Fedor Petrov, Vice Provost for University Affairs posted:The Academician's private residences shall remain off-limits to the Genetic Inspectors. We possess no retroviral capability, we are not researching retroviral engineering, and we shall not allow this Council to violate faction privileges in the name of this ridiculous witch hunt!
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Jul 23, 2018 15:58
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Ah so Academic Privilege is the American system.
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Jul 23, 2018 16:00
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Where's the option for "Leaders earn poo poo, workers profit from their labour" Wiz? Wiz???
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Jul 23, 2018 16:17
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Splicer posted:Where's the option for "Leaders earn poo poo, workers profit from their labour" Wiz? Wiz??? It's called hive mind. Queens have to spit out drones all day, drones work on whateverthefuck the hive consensus is today.
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Jul 23, 2018 16:25
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Utopian Abundance abolishes class which I am immediately going to combine with the space hammer and sickle icon and never play anything else. E: Oh I'll play hiveminds too, haven't run a devouring swarm in a while Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 16:26
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Splicer posted:Where's the option for "Leaders earn poo poo, workers profit from their labour" Wiz? Wiz??? That's what Utopian Abundance is for.
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Jul 23, 2018 16:27
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Hunt11 posted:That's what Utopian Abundance is for. Or less hyperbolicly, before we hit full utopian abundance I want the option to reduce leader QoL and raise worker QoL to a comfortable "everyone gets nice stuff, if not literally everything they want".
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Jul 23, 2018 16:37
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Splicer posted:I want workers swanning around in jewels while management and tech nerds grub in the dirt for worms. Yeah, forget FALGSC, I want to work my way up to that through Partially Automated Comfortable Queer Space Socialism.
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Jul 23, 2018 16:40
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Social welfare looks like it ups working class standards of living to acceptable levels without being FALGSC, but it doesn't take the ruling strata down a peg. That would be a nice option if you have Egalitarian or maybe a special civic, a special standard of living that sets everyone to the social welfare/decent/whatever level so you can save early game on maintenance for the rich but causes unhappiness in upper strata pops.
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Jul 23, 2018 16:41
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Eat The Rich civic when?
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Jul 23, 2018 16:43
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Crazycryodude posted:Social welfare looks like it ups working class standards of living to acceptable levels without being FALGSC, but it doesn't take the ruling strata down a peg. That would be a nice option if you have Egalitarian or maybe a special civic, a special standard of living that sets everyone to the social welfare/decent/whatever level so you can save early game on maintenance for the rich but causes unhappiness in upper strata pops.
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Jul 23, 2018 16:51
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