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Yes, Superman is very different from a character created by Jewish men.
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Jul 21, 2018 18:07
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Jordan7hm posted:Yes, Superman is very different from a character created by Jewish men. Yes, he is. And more importantly, nobody tried to turn that character created by Jewish men into a Nazi for a full year of comics, did they?
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Jul 21, 2018 18:11
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e: I am dumb.
prefect fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Jul 21, 2018 |
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Jul 21, 2018 18:47
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prefect posted:
Huh? That’s exactly what my comment said.
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Jul 21, 2018 19:22
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Superman was also created by Jewish men.
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ecavalli posted:Huh? That’s exactly what my comment said. I need to stop trying to be clever, because I keep screwing it up. 
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Jul 21, 2018 19:24
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quote:Captain America, a character created by Jewish dudes who literally punched Hitler in the face, just does not make sense as a Nazi. It's antithetical to his core. There's a reason why nobody painted Cap as a Nazi prior to Spencer. 
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Jul 21, 2018 19:29
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Storytelling-wise one of the worst things Spencer did with Nazsteve was the entire build up to Secret Empire was working strenuously to indicate that Nazi Steve wasn't really such a bad guy. He mostly dropped this in the event mini itself, which may be why it reads less terribly in a bubble. Steve is magic-whammied into being HYDRA, pushes people out of planes, kneels before the Red Skull, wants to destroy the US Government... But he also hates the Red Skull and thinks he's a racist bigot bad guy and he really wants to take down the Red Skull to make America great again! He pushed a guy out of a plane but he feels terrible about it and even though the guy survived and is in a coma and may wake up and expose him, he doesn't want anyone to kill him. He decides he has to kill him, but when he goes to the hospital he's already dead and he's relieved he didn't have to murder a good man. It's just that all the way down, he keeps sort of vaguely gesturing towards how HYDRA definitely aren't Nazis, they just want the world to be a better place. Real Hydra Folks like Nazsteve hate Nazis, which is why he's plotting against the Red Skull even though they appear to have extremely similar goals/plans. Nazsteve never actually kills anyone because he's not a murderer, he just sort of arranges to have other people murder each other and he feels bad about it. He's even very obvious about having no animus against Inhumans and is very sad to see them put into camps but he's going to do absolutely everything in his power to make sure they're treated fairly and justly. He's not a Bad Guy. And then he hands over control of the Inhuman internment camps to Mr. Hyde who jokes about the experiments he's going to perform on them and how he might eat some of the Inhumans. BUT GUYS HE'S JUST TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING AND IS NOT A NAZI At least in the actual mini-series he (mostly) let him be a bad guy. There's also that the mini-series just sort of handwaves how the blind foolish heroes were blind fools and beta cucks for ever falling for Steve's cunning ruse, which was basically behaving like Captain America and being Captain America and people looking to him for leadership and him behaving like Captain America until the moment that he goes HA HA I'M ACTUALLY EVIL AND I HAVE BEEN FOREVER. Which is the same sort of master plan as going "you fools, you've been coming to my restaurant for decades because we make good food that doesn't kill you, but now you've come here for brunch and I'VE POISONED YOU ALL. How could you not see this coming?????" Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jul 21, 2018 |
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Jul 21, 2018 19:42
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ecavalli posted:There's a reason why nobody painted Cap as a Nazi prior to Spencer. 
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Jul 21, 2018 20:07
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Edge & Christian posted:There's also that the mini-series just sort of handwaves how the blind foolish heroes were blind fools and beta cucks for ever falling for Steve's cunning ruse, which was basically behaving like Captain America and being Captain America and people looking to him for leadership and him behaving like Captain America until the moment that he goes HA HA I'M ACTUALLY EVIL AND I HAVE BEEN FOREVER. Which is the same sort of master plan as going "you fools, you've been coming to my restaurant for decades because we make good food that doesn't kill you, but now you've come here for brunch and I'VE POISONED YOU ALL. How could you not see this coming?????" TBF, in a world where things like Skrulls are known to exist, the heroes totally should have seen something of the sort coming.
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Jul 21, 2018 20:22
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Silver2195 posted:TBF, in a world where things like Skrulls are known to exist, the heroes totally should have seen something of the sort coming. Also my point is that Nazi Captain America did very little to tip off suspicion and continued to act and behave exactly like Not Nazi Captain America. To the point that he tried to talk everyone out of doing a Civil War II, only for a flashback to reveal he was using reverse psychology. He really needed the Space Wall to be built, so in order to get it built he argued against it, knowing his arguing against it would... mean it gets built anyway? He needed to be in charge of SHIELD to enact his master plan so when he was offered the position he turned it down, knowing that somewhere down the line there would be a crisis where they ask him to fill in because of an emergency. The absolute best "you fools how could you not see this coming" bit was when there was a whole arc about how he NEEDS Xavier's brain (which is grafted onto the Red Skull's, granting him psychic powers he never bothered really using in Spencer's comics) and it's the key to his plan and it's all down to this, let's get that brain. [Avengers and X-Men retrieve the brain and throw it into the sun] Well okay I guess Doctor Faustus has Xavier powers now! It's not like anyone used clues or detective work to figure out Captain America was a Nazi because he never behaved like a Nazi in front of anyone ever and was apparently immune to mind-reading because of Red Skull's Xavierbrain protecting him or something. The only people who found out about it were literally people who walked into rooms while he's going "Anyway i'm in Hydra." Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Jul 21, 2018 |
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Jul 21, 2018 20:48
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I want to re-litigate secret empire being a lovely comic even less than I want to re-litigate the 2016 election.
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Jul 21, 2018 20:51
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Edge & Christian posted:To be fair this logic means that nothing can ever be forced to make sense in a world where the things that exist in the world of comic books needs to be justified. If everyone can just later be revealed to be a mind-controlled alternate reality time travelling Skrull being puppet mastered by a Cosmic Cube inside a mirror universe where everyone is a ghost and also from an alternate future, then maybe Spider-Man and Mary Jane have been married this whole time and Captain America really is a Nazi who shot Batman's parents, so really writing anyone having personal interactions is a fool's errand, they all have to know anyone could be anyone doing anything. Well, yeah. This is part of the reason I don't like Marvel/DC much in general; the "when everything is possible, nothing is interesting" problem is baked pretty deeply into the settings. Though Deadpool murdering Agent Coulson was not a very good decision according to real-world logic either. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jul 21, 2018 |
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Jul 21, 2018 20:59
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Edge & Christian posted:Storytelling-wise one of the worst things Spencer did with Nazsteve was the entire build up to Secret Empire was working strenuously to indicate that Nazi Steve wasn't really such a bad guy. He mostly dropped this in the event mini itself... This is a good over view of SE and it goes along with my problem with it. Like so much of Spencer's Cap run is about Steve as a Secret Hydra Man...but also still the good Steve Rogers, just mind controlled. And that was to make the audience believe in the character. And I believe Spencer's original plot was just "Steve is mind controlled." Ehich leads to the resolution of "Will he break the mind control in the end." And then I think Spencer becomes more focused on Hydra and it's new backstory and focuses on that. Only if all that Hydra stuff are fake memories invented by the Red Skull, it's all pointless. So he makes all that stuff a new reality so it has more of a bearing in the story. And Spencer ends up tying himself in knots with the story. Until by the end he decides to let Hydra Steve be super evil because he can be a separate character.
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Jul 21, 2018 21:14
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Is there a good reference to find out what issues of a comic fall into what volume or something like that? Like how many volumes of Captain America or Batman are there, and what issues compromise those volumes?
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Jul 22, 2018 20:09
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I usually use Comicvine. https://comicvine.gamespot.com/batman/4050-91273/
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Jul 22, 2018 20:12
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Teenage Fansub posted:I usually use Comicvine. Dear poster you are, as the kids say, The Tits. Thanks!
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Jul 22, 2018 20:20
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ComicDB is not bad either. It tells you how many issues, and points out weird stuff like this from Captain America (1968): Title Continuity: Captain America (1968) #100 continues from Tales of Suspense (1959) #99 Captain America (1968) #600 continues from Captain America (2005) #50 Captain America (1968) #619 continues to Captain America And Bucky (2011) #620 Notes: 376-issue series plus 13 annuals. The indicia title in #444-446 is Steve Rogers Captain America. Continues legacy numbering in 2009 with #600-619 and in 2018 with #695-704 as follows: ... But it does have a ton of stuff from other countries / publishers, so you need to have an idea of what you're looking for already. For Captain America, for example, you're looking for the series published by Marvel. I really don't like calling the runs Volume 1,2,3, etc, because it makes it super confusing when you have Hawkeye volume 4, volume 3 to refer to the third volume of trade paperbacks put out for a particular series. I like using the date, as ComicDB does.
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Jul 22, 2018 20:22
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Also, Nick Spencer's personal politics are, if not outright extreme right, very extreme right adjacent. So: gently caress him.
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Jul 23, 2018 05:06
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I use Comicbookdb all the time, especially when I want to see how many issues were relevant to a storyline, or see where an obscure character I like showed up.
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Jul 23, 2018 16:24
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Halloween Jack posted:Is this the appropriate place to ask about a one-shot you remember reading a quarter-century ago? I'm trying to remember the first Batman comic I ever read. Finally found it 
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Jul 23, 2018 18:15
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remembered one shot from a quarter century ago: a story with blade, howard the duck and a vampire cow i swear it was real, but was it???
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Jul 23, 2018 18:52
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site posted:remembered one shot from a quarter century ago: a story with blade, howard the duck and a vampire cow With Steve Gerber everything is posible.   (Hellcow first appeared in Giant Size Man-Thin #5)
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Jul 23, 2018 19:09
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omgggg its loving real!
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Jul 23, 2018 19:19
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drat. I was about to say that the only comic I could find featuring both of them was Silver Surfer vs. Dracula #1 which is a thing
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Jul 23, 2018 19:26
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the strange thing is i sure dont remember ever owning a man-thing comic, so how in the hell did i read that story
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Jul 23, 2018 19:29
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site posted:the strange thing is i sure dont remember ever owning a man-thing comic, so how in the hell did i read that story Reprint in Marvel Tales or something?
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Jul 23, 2018 20:30
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site posted:the strange thing is i sure dont remember ever owning a man-thing comic, so how in the hell did i read that story Hellcow's been in many other comics since, including a Deadpool story from less than a decade ago.
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Jul 23, 2018 22:10
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He's mentioned in one of the Squirrel Girl arcs. The one with Howard, I believe.
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Jul 23, 2018 22:34
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The Howard the Duck vs. Hellcow story is reprinted in the Silver Surfer Vs. Dracula one-shot, published in 1994: Neither Silver Surfer nor Dracula (nor Blade!) appear in the Hellcow story, but the lead story in the comic is a reprint of a Tomb of Dracula story with Silver Surfer (and Blade) in it.
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Jul 23, 2018 22:36
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hahaha holy poo poo i think that was it!!! thats awesome ty for tracking this down guys
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Jul 23, 2018 22:51
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Yeah, it's hard to imagine you would ever forget handling a Giant-Size Man-Thing. How many issues were there of that? I thought Giant-Size was like a format for special occasions sort of imprint but, well, I just though maybe they would realize what they had with that title after one go. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 23:02
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remusclaw posted:Yeah, it's hard to imagine you would ever forget handling a Giant-Size Man-Thing. I think it was, they had more pages and charged more money for them. Giant Size X-Men was a one off special that introduced us to the team Claremont would turn into the most amazing thing ever and was like 3 times as long as a normal comic.
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Jul 23, 2018 23:09
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remusclaw posted:Yeah, it's hard to imagine you would ever forget handling a Giant-Size Man-Thing. There were five Giant-Size Man-Things. And yeah, there were Giant-Size editions for the Avengers, Defenders, Shang-Chi, and others.  (note: this is fan art, not something Marvel actually published. Sadly.)
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Jul 23, 2018 23:48
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Selachian posted:(note: this is fan art, not something Marvel actually published. Sadly.) I think that's better. It's not as funny if it's Marvel themselves leaning into the joke so hard. You don't want to milk Giant-Size Man-Thing.
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Jul 24, 2018 00:23
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All this Giant Sized Man Thing talk made me think of something. Who came up with the team for Giant Sized X-Men? Claremont made the team famous, but Len Wein wrote that first issue.
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Jul 24, 2018 00:24
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Skwirl posted:All this Giant Sized Man Thing talk made me think of something. Who came up with the team for Giant Sized X-Men? Claremont made the team famous, but Len Wein wrote that first issue. IIRC, it was Roy Thomas who came up with the idea of making the X-Men a team of international mutants, but it was Wein and Dave Cockrum who designed the characters.
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Jul 24, 2018 00:53
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I do remember they were a pain the rear end to rack and store given the folio size. My brother had an awesome comic rack he stole when the drug store shut down but they just never fit into it.
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Jul 24, 2018 00:57
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Selachian posted:IIRC, it was Roy Thomas who came up with the idea of making the X-Men a team of international mutants, but it was Wein and Dave Cockrum who designed the characters. 1) Marvel executives told Stan Lee (who was the publisher at the time) and Roy Thomas (the EiC at the time) that they wanted international heroes to help sales in all the countries they had reprint licensing deals with. 2) Roy Thomas thought this would be a good way to revamp the X-Men, with them flying around in a giant ship recruiting mutants from across the globe, and got Mike Friedrich and Dave Cockrum to work up a pitch. Cockrum starts working on revamping his rejected Legion of Superheroes characters to be the New X-Men. 3) Thomas steps down as EiC because the position changed hands constantly in the 1970s, and Len Wein took over as EiC. Wein decides he wants to write the X-Men revamp, not Friedrich. In the process of all of this turnover the "International" idea stayed, but the "help our licensing deal" thing didn't because most of the new characters were from you know, the Soviet Union, indeterminate African country, Canada, America, etc. This is also why Wein's creation Wolverine (who had debuted awhile back as a Hulk adversary) ended up on the team. 4) By the time the book was actually ready to go, Wein felt he was too busy to write the book because of all of the EiC work, which within a few months of Giant Size X-Men led him to step down and hand it off to Marv Wolfman, and then he left for DC all together a year or so later. Young eager writer Chris Claremont was hanging picking up odd jobs and fill-ins at Marvel, and was supposed to be scripting the book off of Wein's plots but within a few issues they just let Claremont do it himself; it was his first 'regular' gig but it was also the X-Men, and who cared if he screwed it up? I don't know how much (if any) credit Al Landau or Roy Thomas deserve for going 'hey maybe do a book with characters who aren't from America?" but Wein and Cockrum definitely did a lot of the early protean New X-Men work, but Claremont and his collaborators (including Cockrum) are the reason that anyone in 2018 knows who the X-Men are.
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Jul 24, 2018 01:28
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Edge & Christian posted:This site has a pretty decent/quick summary of the development process. Wasn't the book literally just printing old stories to keep up a monthly release when all that happened?
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Jul 24, 2018 01:39
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Edge & Christian posted:This is also why Wein's creation Wolverine (who had debuted awhile back as a Hulk adversary) ended up on the team. That's also apparently the reason that Wolverine is Canadian: so that he could eventually be on the eventual international team.
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Jul 24, 2018 01:44
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