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handsome only face posted:i think i read they might be 2 or 3 hr shows not sure if espn will handle the production either UFC is pretty much taking a page out of WWEs book and controlling nearly all of the event production themselves last I recall.
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Jul 30, 2018 12:35
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Buyrates are low because no one has disposable income plus who cares about watching half a dozen decisions when you can catch all the cool poo poo on the highlights the next day. It shouldn’t take 3 hours to show 4 fights. That’s a much larger problem than too many shows.
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Jul 30, 2018 12:36
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It's all of the above. Also, Chael Sonnen had a good point many years ago when he said that fighters should never half-rear end their promotional efforts, even if they're not going to trash talk, they should at least seem passionate about it. Why would someone want to watch a fight that the fighter them self doesn't seem to care about? I think the UFC has a similar problem where they genuinely seem to give the littlest poo poo possible about promoting most fighters or putting forward an interesting narrative and people just don't care as a result.
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Jul 30, 2018 13:10
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Watching the countdown to UFC 227 and I just love that DMMJ has a Dragonball Z uniform rashguard/tank top. That is pretty much on point with what I'd expect from him.
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Jul 30, 2018 13:27
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I used to watch every single UFC event. I still remember nobodies like Joe "Diesel" Riggs and "Cabbage" Correira. But the number of events grew and grew, plus on different channels that I don't have. So I got out of it. I didn't know about DC's superfight until it was about to happen, same with this fight night. And this is partially because I'm back into training again. Along with all the correct stuff people are already saying, the UFC was riding a trendy popularity wave a few years ago post TUF1. A ton of new people got into the sport then. But these days can't be expected to last, and the tastes of fans change. So a card that did well back in the good ol' days shouldn't be put on a pedestal. The whole thing is watered down. Too many fights. Too many fighters (yes, put 80% of fighters back to the WEC). TV events are brutal to sit through if you do it more than once a month.
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Jul 30, 2018 13:54
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Mr. Nice! posted:Buyrates are low because no one has disposable income plus who cares about watching half a dozen decisions when you can catch all the cool poo poo on the highlights the next day. Streams, no mega stars, poor scheduling, injuries, and over saturation are killing the buy rates.
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Jul 30, 2018 14:08
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decline in ufc promos since the guy that did this left https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbOykGNyehA
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Jul 30, 2018 14:34
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Neurosis posted:decline in ufc promos since the guy that did this left https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbOykGNyehA ufc should pay that man whatever he wants to make promo videos for ppvs.
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Jul 30, 2018 15:04
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Have to agree with the general thread consensus that the UFC is watered down. I used to keep fully up to date on all the cards, and watched almost all the PPV's. I just don't feel compelled to watch/keep up to date anymore, and I couldn't put my finger on why. I live in Calgary, and had no interest in going to the card on Sat (though looking back, I wish I went). The last one they had here was a garbage fire, so that factored into it, but this one had decent fighters/fights, so I should have wanted to go. Weirdly I find Tito vs Chuck compelling, even though it will probably be a sad fight (as I'm a huge Chuck fan). The last fight I was really hyped up for was Ngannou vs. Stipe, and that ended up being really boring. But I totally understand why Stipe chose the strategy he did, and that led to his win. If you asked me who the current title holders were for each division, I'd only be able to name Rose and DC. That's a problem.
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Jul 30, 2018 17:37
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They should make wrestling illegal since that poo poo is boring af
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Jul 30, 2018 17:44
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Kragger99 posted:
I feel like it takes an abnormal amount of time for people to actually pay attention to champions. With the odd exception (conor etc) it seems like even champs dont slip into popular conciousness until they've defended a few times. And even then they might never. Having a million interem titles makes this even worse. But I can't think of any other sport than the fightsports where being a champion has as little correlation with general popularity. Mighty Mouse wishes as many people watched him as the mid 2000's Spurs. I feel like people are are bad at identifying with rotating casts of individuals. How does golf and tennis do it? At least with team sports most people have some kind of affiliation/fandom whether players are shifted around or not.
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Jul 30, 2018 17:51
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I agree that the product is watered down. I consider myself a step above a casual fan, and most contenders I have only seen fight once or twice. There are what, 10ish divisions? That is at least 50 fighters I need to know to be current with the current title scene. Add also that fighters 5-10 in a division still need to be built and that balloons up to 100. The unfortunate thing is that you can fight a generous 3 fights a year, maaaaybe 4. It's hard to pitch specific fighters when you see them once every 4 months, and those performances may not be consistent due to the high variance in MMA. There are too many levers that I need to pull to be consistently informed, so fighters blend together for me. I also think that the other big issue is that no stars are being built. A page or two ago someone mentioned that the casual fan still thinks that Liddell and Rampage are still top tier fighters. Bellator is milking this by making fights that are 15 years too late to be watchable. However, name recognition is a thing. Conor is the only star that they have made since Jones, and he doesn't fight. Conor did a lot to build his brand, but the UFC also promoted him by pitching him as an incredibly bad man off of a win over something called a Dennis Sivir. I won't pretend that I know how to build a personality that the general public wants to watch (or thinks that it wants to watch more importantly), but I think that something has to be done other than saying 'X is a champion, care about them.' Judging by the way he was presented in his fight with Poirer, I think they almost had it with Gaethije, but a combo of him losing the high profile fights he's had (to my knowledge) and publically saying he's only fighting for another year makes him a hard sell.
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Jul 30, 2018 18:05
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Ronda was an enormous star before she got embarrassed by Holmes, she turned her UFC success into major movie deals and is currently in WWE. She drew a ton of eyeballs who wouldn’t otherwise be watching, who then went away when she was dismantled. The UFC could have kept those people around by having any other WMMA fighter get a fraction of Ronda’s promotion. I agree with most of the sentiments though, events take too long, they’re spread out across too many channels, and it doesn’t feel like there are any stakes because anyone who talks poo poo sufficiently on Twitter can get a title shot. red19fire fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 18:22
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the period of really rapid early growth is over for them but they’re fine
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Jul 30, 2018 18:27
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red19fire posted:Ronda was an enormous star before she got embarrassed by Holmes, she turned her UFC success into major movie deals and is currently in WWE. She drew a ton of eyeballs who wouldn’t otherwise be watching, who then went away when she was dismantled. The UFC could have kept those people around by having any other WMMA fighter get a fraction of Ronda’s promotion. I actually think there are a pretty decent number of people who got into it because of Ronda and watch the women's divisions still. It's anecdotal of course but I've noticed a lot more vocal womens fans at the bars I watch at now, including one lady who was hootin' and hollerin' for Joanna this weekend and didn't really seem interested in the rest of the card.
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Jul 30, 2018 18:28
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spb posted:They should make wrestling illegal since that poo poo is boring af They almost did in one fight on the last card
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Jul 30, 2018 18:32
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spb posted:They should make wrestling illegal since that poo poo is boring af i'm praying once in the morning and twice in the evening that Woodley wrestles Till
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Jul 30, 2018 18:59
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It would help if fighters could be sponsored by a competent company. I know who the top tennis players are, I don't watch tennis. I know that Federer is notable because his face and name are plastered everywhere. His face is next to watches, his face is on Uniqlo posters, his face is even on the ads for the Rogers Cup -- a tennis event he's no longer participating in. Reebok couldn't even get fighters names right on the merch they're trying to shill.
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Jul 30, 2018 19:05
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8 hours of bjj and Muay Thai and kickboxing and boxing are sick. Nobody wants to watch 8 hours of wrestling 🤼♀️
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Jul 30, 2018 19:10
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spb posted:8 hours of bjj and Muay Thai and kickboxing and boxing are sick. Nobody wants to watch 8 hours of wrestling 🤼♀️ Some here do every monday and tuesday night
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Jul 30, 2018 19:13
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piratepilates posted:It would help if fighters could be sponsored by a competent company. Federer and Nadal also have the benefit of having been at the absolute peak of their sport for like 20 years.
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Jul 30, 2018 19:14
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I think promoting fighters more goes a long way. That is, get fighters on talk shows, variety shows, reality shows, etc. Get media exposure outside of shows that are just about mma. Make in house promotional stuff that makes fighters seem compelling or controversial. Beyond that, promote match ups. Dont have joe rogan say his nonsense, but focus on why this is a compelling match up that i, the viewer, should care about. Give some level of analysis that helps you care. Again, not by joe rogan Lastly, and most critically: book good fights between good fighters. Dont try to hold off until the end of the year or after tuf to schedule a fight. Schedule a fight asap. If a fighter doesnt want to fight, offer them more money or make a different also good fight. You build contenders by having people fight in good fights, and making the public care about the fighter and the person. Not by having guys sit out and posting on isntagram or whatever
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Jul 30, 2018 19:41
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david carmichael posted:Lastly, and most critically: book good fights between good fighters. Dont try to hold off until the end of the year or after tuf to schedule a fight. Schedule a fight asap. If a fighter doesnt want to fight, offer them more money or make a different also good fight. You build contenders by having people fight in good fights, and making the public care about the fighter and the person. Not by having guys sit out and posting on isntagram or whatever Yeah, I totally agree with this. I wonder if the absence of Joe Silva is part of (or all of) the reason this isn't happening like it used to.
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Jul 30, 2018 20:25
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Mr. Carlisle posted:Some here do every monday and tuesday night give tyron woodley a michinoku driver and ill watch all 8 hours of his fight
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Jul 30, 2018 20:39
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I think part of it is the UFC would rather pay a fighter less and have them be not famous than pay them much more and have them become a star they lose control over. Most of that comes from their new business model of content content content, needing to fill hours so let's have a revolving door. But at least part of it is also management short sightedness and greed. The Reebok deal, Dana's willingness to publicly trash talk fighters as a negotiating tactic, and the disinterest in ongoing promotion for fighters all come from this.
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Jul 30, 2018 20:43
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I find that bizarre too, considering the promotion is owned by a talent agency. Surely they'd want to sign the good talent, then hype them the gently caress up so they can cash in twice. Edit: could get them in hot water when they don't promote fightera not signed to them. Why exactly did a talent agency want an overvalued fighting promotion again? piratepilates fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 20:49
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piratepilates posted:I find that bizarre too, considering the promotion is owned by a talent agency. I"m pretty sure that was a big selling point. WME would use their own connections in the industry to promote and that would also help cut costs for them. Pretty sure some fighters were already managed by WME before the buyout too.
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Jul 30, 2018 20:53
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spb posted:8 hours of bjj and Muay Thai and kickboxing and boxing are sick. Nobody wants to watch 8 hours of wrestling 🤼♀️ I really like wrestling when it is a means toward doing damage and stopping the fight. A good example of this would be any Kevin Lee fight in recent memory, and pretty much all of the Khabib fights where he takes someone down and rearranges their face. Wrestling as a means to just lay and pray is insanely tedious though, I'm with you there.
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Jul 30, 2018 22:15
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Ground and pound owns
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Jul 30, 2018 23:04
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I think Conor hosed everything up by leading by example. When people saw what he got away with they soon followed.
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Jul 30, 2018 23:19
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And under the newest scoring criteria, top control without damage is a third-order factor. Judges aren't doing it that way, though.
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Jul 30, 2018 23:22
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I just pause events and wait a hour before starting. Then I can fast forward through the irritating poo poo. Also, no joke, I had no idea about last weeks card until the night before it happened. How?!
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Jul 30, 2018 23:47
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CRISPYBABY posted:I feel like it takes an abnormal amount of time for people to actually pay attention to champions. With the odd exception (conor etc) it seems like even champs dont slip into popular conciousness until they've defended a few times. And even then they might never. Having a million interem titles makes this even worse. But I can't think of any other sport than the fightsports where being a champion has as little correlation with general popularity. Mighty Mouse wishes as many people watched him as the mid 2000's Spurs. I think this is a big part of it, but its not just the titles,also the rankings, and just general lack of direction and narrative. I think its really hard to tell someone who doesnt heavily follow UFC why x match is important or big or exciting, or why it is even happening, especially outside of title fights. Even most main events, its like well this guy is pretty cool and good, i guess, and this fight seems interesting. Theres no sense of trajectory, for the most part no clear cut reason or rhythm to who fights for what title when, and all the interim and injury and replacement stuff makes it way worse. "this is going to be an entertaining fight because of how that guy fights" or "this card is stacked with exciting fighters" is great but basically vague and cant always be true. And its even less interesting when the entertaining fight gets scrapped and maybe you get a less good replacement, or, not. It would be easier for people to be interested and get more attached if they understand what winning this fight or losing that fight means for each guy, or how some young kid who wins a big prelims fight goes forward after that. As it is, you see a guy fight, and if hes cool as hell you're like hell yeah that was a good fight. Well, I guess he'll fight someone else,at some indeterminate point possibly this year, and maybe that will be cool, isn't really satisfying for the casual fan, who will lose interest as the next fight starts 10 minutes later. I understand obviously results and marketing and etc do influence what matchups happen, but from a casual fan pov it seems virtually random who fights who and when. I do think ESPN is capable of building some of that stuff, its kind of what they do, build a pundit and analysis machine around their products to market them. Having some dudes debate rankings on sportscenter after a guy wins is gonna help. But theres just an overall lack of clear consequence to fight results right now. Islam Makhackev won and looked scary Saturday. Now...what? I understand it should mean he gets another fight against a higher ranked opponent and yada-yada and logistics will be sorted out. But from a casual pov he basically just falls off the face of the earth for 4-8 months and then you're looking through a card coming up and see oh, hes back. Or worse, you miss the card and find out after the fact he fought again. Not that he is exactly the marketing dream, but the same applies to virtually every fighter. That isn't really a way that people are going to become fans of fighters or want to tune in. You can tune into Some Dudes punching each other virtually every week. But I think the issue is less the quantity and more that nothing is being done to make any of the Some Dudes compelling. Part of that is the personality, promotional driven side of things, but part of it is also just how hard it is to follow anyone in a trajectory sense, or assign consequences to fights.
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Jul 31, 2018 00:17
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I don't understand why the UFC doesn't have an official development league. You look at most other sports, and there's a D-league option that allows for talented competitors to work on their skills, and for motivated viewers to watch while understanding that the players are going to be rawer, while focusing your top level league on the best of the best.
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Jul 31, 2018 04:31
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i just realized the Dillashaw fights is this weekend thats cool
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Jul 31, 2018 04:37
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:I don't understand why the UFC doesn't have an official development league. You look at most other sports, and there's a D-league option that allows for talented competitors to work on their skills, and for motivated viewers to watch while understanding that the players are going to be rawer, while focusing your top level league on the best of the best. They have this unofficially with all of the promotions that broadcast on fightpass (Legacy, Invicta, etc.), but that's what they should do by reviving the WEC.
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Jul 31, 2018 04:38
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Dana has said he's admired Vince McMahon's drive for success and business moves so maybe his ultimate plan is to over-saturate the market with too many hours of the most boring programming possible and fill massive television deals with it while also dissolving their PPV market and shifting it to their own paid service along with sweet tv deals with multiple networks. Every guy on the roster is just a guy and you worry more about building the brand than you do making stars out of the fighters, just like WWE. WWE's plan is working - the product is garbage but they are making more money now than they know what to do with. I mean I feel if that was ever the inspiration it seems like they're already about halfway there
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Jul 31, 2018 04:43
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I get most of my MMA news here and on Twitter. The fights are secondary. I own a business and am sad I can't put my company name on a fighters shorts. Would Bellator let me do that? I wonder what the pricing is like. I pay 350 bucks to have a banner on the local indie wrestling circuit. If I have to throw down a couple thousand to have my company on a no name Bellator fighter's rear end then so be it.
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Jul 31, 2018 05:28
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Untrustable posted:I get most of my MMA news here and on Twitter. The fights are secondary. I own a business and am sad I can't put my company name on a fighters shorts. Would Bellator let me do that? I wonder what the pricing is like. I pay 350 bucks to have a banner on the local indie wrestling circuit. If I have to throw down a couple thousand to have my company on a no name Bellator fighter's rear end then so be it. My boyfriend runs a record label. I told him, before we'd started dating, back when I was training and planned to compete as an amateur back in the late 2000s, I had plans to contact him and ask if I could embroider his logo on my shorts for the sheer joy of having a cool logo on my shorts. He said he would have sent me at least $500 to do so. As long as it's not the UFC/Reebok, there's probably a few bucks floating around...
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Jul 31, 2018 05:44
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Mr. Carlisle posted:Dana has said he's admired Vince McMahon's drive for success and business moves so maybe his ultimate plan is to over-saturate the market with too many hours of the most boring programming possible and fill massive television deals with it while also dissolving their PPV market and shifting it to their own paid service along with sweet tv deals with multiple networks. Every guy on the roster is just a guy and you worry more about building the brand than you do making stars out of the fighters, just like WWE. WWE's plan is working - the product is garbage but they are making more money now than they know what to do with. Well the business and promotional model is definitely inspired by pro wrestling, and about 1 decade behind where wrestling is currently, so yeah the end game could be to get Scrooge money on TV deals and just kind of hum along regardless of the quality of the product.
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Jul 31, 2018 06:01
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