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asecondduck
Feb 18, 2011

by Nyc_Tattoo

PostNouveau posted:

Never heard that one before. Why 24 and Billy?

Billy being related/a clone of Rusty or Jonas works with his character, he's been obsessive over Rusty and Jonas his entire life and revealing that he COULD have been Rusty if he hadn't developed Hydrocephalus would totally crush him. 24 would be a clone too because, gently caress it, let's make every redhead between the ages of 25-40 a clone and also he wouldn't give a poo poo about it, unlike the others.

Also it could be argued that all of them represent different parts of Jonas' personality.

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Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

They're not bringing Jonas back you maniacs, he's a head in a box and also it would be terrible.

There'll be some resolution to his fate and perhaps Rusty getting another chance to come to terms with his past and parentage, but I will bend over and devour my own testicles if Jonas Sr is brought back to life as a functioning character.

I can definitely agree with that. I just don't think they revealed his head in the computer to have Pete kill him and go LOL!

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

tarlibone posted:

Let's forget the fact that they had the same name and face. JJ was loved by all, immensely popular, crazy smart, and oh yeah, he could parlay that intelligence into an incredibly successful business model. There are differences, of course. JJ had stronger morals; also, he's also shorter and missing an arm. Both he and his dad were accomplished super-scientists who achieved great things both in speculative engineering and in products meant for mass consumption. That's what I meant by functionally identical: the scenario suggested would basically have Jonas doing what JJ was doing a few seasons ago, complete with pushing Doc back down to where he was a few seasons ago. Jonas would be doing the same thing as a character that JJ was doing. Functionally identical.

Now, all of that said, I guess it would be nice to have Rusty interact with Jonas so he could tell him what life has been like since he died. But you need one episode to do that, not a season.

Yeah, they could do that, or take it in any number of directions. Just because it's possible for Jonas to take the same arc as JJ, that doesn't mean he has to. There are plenty of unique things they could do with him besides "lol he's dead again." If it's all for a joke, they shouldn't have brought him back in the first place.

RoboChrist 9000
Dec 14, 2006

Mater Dolorosa

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

I will bend over and devour my own testicles if Jonas Sr is brought back to life as a functioning character.

Toxx you coward.

bull3964
Nov 18, 2000

DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.


glam rock hamhock posted:

I was honestly surprised that (episode 2 spoilers) they went ahead with the Dr Dugong being Wide Whales brother thing because I think everyone guessed that like within a few episodes of the last season.

It wasn't just a guess, it was explicitly spelled out last season.

asecondduck
Feb 18, 2011

by Nyc_Tattoo
Really 24 being a Jonas/Rusty relative is just a joke (that I could see them making, to be honest) but Rusty, Billy, Jr, and the Monarch, when put together, absolutely combine back into an amalgamation of Jonas.

Rusty's got the obsession and mind for super-science but no drive, Jr's got the drive but none of the imagination (he made consumer goods and a slightly better version of Jonas' greatest achievement, and needed Rusty to make even that work), Billy got his intelligence (neither Rusty or Jr are particularly smart, just good at science) and the Monarch has Jonas' eviler aspects (cutthroat and hellbent on getting his way and doesn't care how many corpses he leaves in his wake).

But this is all so on the nose and obvious that even if they were considering it at one point they certainly aren't now, and things like establishing that the cloning machines were Jonas' and placing both the Monarch and Billy's mothers in Jonas' swinging circle are really just red herrings at this point. Probably.

I think the real thing to look for this season (and the big plot reveal, besides Jonas' fate) is what happened to Morpho. Are they still alive and, if so, where/who are they?

asecondduck fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Aug 6, 2018

Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013


RoboChrist 9000 posted:

Toxx you coward.

No I'm scared.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
I don't think JJ particularly needed Rusty to build the shield. He just wanted to make Rusty feel included.

asecondduck
Feb 18, 2011

by Nyc_Tattoo

Cojawfee posted:

I don't think JJ particularly needed Rusty to build the shield. He just wanted to make Rusty feel included.

I dunno, given what happened to make the shield I feel like JJ knew the risks involved and wouldn't have ethically been able to do it himself. But then again Rusty did rush it, so maybe a capable (well, less procrastinating) scientist would have been able to throw together the shield in a way that didn't mutate all the people working on it. Huh.

The failed clone theory still works because Jonas probably didn't realize that Rusty absorbed JJ, so he had a successful (albeit dwarf) clone of himself all along. Probably good he didn't, as he likely would have sacrificed Rusty to get to JJ.

BexGu
Jan 9, 2004

This fucking day....
Rusty is actually a really good super scientist but its evil super scientist stuff. The fact that he is not evil is actually holding him back.

prefect
Sep 11, 2001

No one, Woodhouse.
No one.




Dead Man’s Band

lelandjs posted:

24 would be a clone too because, gently caress it, let's make every redhead between the ages of 25-40 a clone and also he wouldn't give a poo poo about it, unlike the others.

But 24 looked like Jerry Seinfeld with a unibrow. Not even close to redheaded. :confused:

prefect fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Aug 6, 2018

Majorian
Jul 1, 2009

Inverted Offensive Battle: Acupuncture Attacks Convert To 3D Penetration Tactics Taking Advantage of Deep Battle Opportunities

Bust Rodd posted:

Im enjoying my rewatch of last season way, way more than my first watch, but frankly it’s loving crazy and kind of embarrassing that Jackson and Doc literally didn’t understand their budget/episode order and that there wasnt a lawyer or legal advocate or financial advisor that could’ve helped them figure it out before they started production.

I'm enjoying rewatching it too. I liked it the first time around, but it really wasn't what I was expecting. Now that my (wrong) expectations are out the window, it's much easier to enjoy on its own terms.

Alan_Shore posted:

If you think JJ is identical to Jonas, I don't know what show you're watching. Personally I'd love to see Rusty interact with Jonas as an adult, try to unpack all that poo poo he's been holding in.

This. Particularly since we've only ever really experienced Jonas Sr. through flashbacks, a lot of which were colored by individual characters' memories. We really haven't gotten an accurate sense of what the man was actually like, beneath his "Aw shucks, I'm just a good ol' all-American super-scientist!" exterior. It would be interesting if Rusty were forced to deal with what his father is really like, with the facade stripped away.

JJ also had a facade, but I don't think he was hiding as much. He was a much more vulnerable character than Jonas Sr., both physically and emotionally, at least as far as I can tell.

asecondduck
Feb 18, 2011

by Nyc_Tattoo

prefect posted:

But 24 looked like Jerry Seinfeld with a unibrow. Not even close to redheaded. :confused:



Goddamn it, fourteen years on and I still can't get their numbers right. I meant 21.

prefect
Sep 11, 2001

No one, Woodhouse.
No one.




Dead Man’s Band

lelandjs posted:

Goddamn it, fourteen years on and I still can't get their numbers right. I meant 21.

Also not red-haired:



Although Dean's hair has always looked pretty brown instead of red. And Orpheus said he had rust-colored hair.

asecondduck
Feb 18, 2011

by Nyc_Tattoo

prefect posted:

Also not red-haired:



Although Dean's hair has always looked pretty brown instead of red. And Orpheus said he had rust-colored hair.

Huh.



Yeah, you're right, when put right up against an actual red-headed character his hair is a absolutely brown. Dean's hair is pretty much the same color too, but I've never actually thought what Dean's hair color was, just assumed it was red:



But I guess both 21 and Dean are brown-haired. Odd.

[Edit: Looking at those two photos now, though, I've just noticed that Hank, Dean, and 21 all have the more or less the same nose. Not theorycrafting or anything, but I've never noticed that.]

asecondduck fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Aug 6, 2018

Phenotype
Jul 24, 2007

You must defeat Sheng Long to stand a chance.



Alan_Shore posted:

If you think JJ is identical to Jonas, I don't know what show you're watching. Personally I'd love to see Rusty interact with Jonas as an adult, try to unpack all that poo poo he's been holding in.

PostNouveau posted:

I could see Rusty falling back into adventuring-with-dad mode.

They spend a lot of time on how that stuff hosed him up, but there are hints that he also misses it. In the ORB episode where he's solving a mystery with Billy, he gets all amped up and goes "It's the old stuff!" And he talks about how good he was at it a few times.

This is what I'm talking about. There is no way any of this happens. I don't think he'll get to have a single minute of conversation with Jonas, and I'm damned sure they're not going on an adventure together. For my money, if they refer to it at all past the third episode, it'll only be in terms of the scars it left on Rusty.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

lelandjs posted:

But I guess both 21 and Dean are brown-haired. Odd.

:v: 21 is a malformed Dean clone who—

Oh wait. Nevermind, they covered that one already.

asecondduck
Feb 18, 2011

by Nyc_Tattoo
ANYWAY theorycrafting with Venture Bros. is completely pointless because they don't even know what they're gonna do until they do it and if you post your theory online and you're right they'll just change it anyway.

And even making predictions when episodes are in the can is silly because they're way, way, better at this poo poo than anyone else is. Seriously. Jonas was in the loving PROBLEM machine. You can't beat that.

asecondduck fucked around with this message at 17:30 on Aug 6, 2018

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
I think you'll find that I actually called it that Jonas was in there as soon as episode 2 aired.

Nonexistence
Jan 6, 2014
With all the character development Hank has been getting, I wonder if we'll see Dean do any self-actualizing this season? He's certainly changed a lot in the past few, but not necessarily grown at all as a character.

axelblaze
Oct 18, 2006

Congratulations The One Concern!!!

You're addicted to Ivory!!

and...oh my...could you please...
oh my...

Grimey Drawer
Yeah, I legit worry that they are just gonna have Dean turn out like his dad, which I really don't want.

I think they just don't like Dean as much as they like Hank. Like Dean kind of grated on them early because fan girls inexplicably loved him, so they tried to write against that while Hank is just a big goofy fun character that one of them voices.

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004

Phenotype posted:

This is what I'm talking about. There is no way any of this happens. I don't think he'll get to have a single minute of conversation with Jonas, and I'm damned sure they're not going on an adventure together. For my money, if they refer to it at all past the third episode, it'll only be in terms of the scars it left on Rusty.

I don't think so either. If I was a betting man, I'd say at the end of episode 3 Rusty will get like, 2 sentences from Jonas before he dies for real.

Super messed up that his head is in that computer tho huh? Gives me the dang willies

Mr. Fall Down Terror
Jan 24, 2018

by Fluffdaddy

glam rock hamhock posted:

Yeah, I legit worry that they are just gonna have Dean turn out like his dad, which I really don't want.

I think they just don't like Dean as much as they like Hank. Like Dean kind of grated on them early because fan girls inexplicably loved him, so they tried to write against that while Hank is just a big goofy fun character that one of them voices.

they like them both, it's just that hank is easier to write for in general as well as in this stage of life. in the book there's a quote that stuck with me about the episode where they had tied doc to a chair to "torture" him with the teddy ruxpin doll. hank was all about hitting doc in the nuts with a sock. hank is described as the first guy to volunteer for anything, "his hand just goes right the gently caress up". he's just way more adventurous than dean, and now he's unlocking his Hero Powers with stupid costumes like the bat, or enrico matassa, or the destiny suit. so hank trying to romance sirena is just more entertaining than emo college dean, but i'm sure dean will have his day this season

this wasn't previously a problem because the boys operated as a unit and bounced off each other (mecha shiva) but now that they're growing as independent men its like you're taking one character and splitting them into two

Phenotype posted:

This is what I'm talking about. There is no way any of this happens. I don't think he'll get to have a single minute of conversation with Jonas, and I'm damned sure they're not going on an adventure together. For my money, if they refer to it at all past the third episode, it'll only be in terms of the scars it left on Rusty.

rusty spends much of the season trying to hack into his dad's frozen brain and it's a weird nightmare hellscape

he would have plenty of reasons to do this, for the sheer superscience of it, to resolve unknown questions about his childhood, or just to get the plans for new gadgets and inventions he can sell

Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Aug 6, 2018

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010

glam rock hamhock posted:

I was honestly surprised that (episode 2 spoilers) they went ahead with the Dr Dugong being Wide Whales brother thing because I think everyone guessed that like within a few episodes of the last season.

It was outright stated last season, its not a twist.

Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 6 days!

luxury handset posted:

rusty spends much of the season trying to hack into his dad's frozen brain and it's a weird nightmare hellscape

he would have plenty of reasons to do this, for the sheer superscience of it, to resolve unknown questions about his childhood, or just to get the plans for new gadgets and inventions he can sell

The most on-brand thing Rusty could do at this point is turn Jonas into a Walking Eye.

asecondduck
Feb 18, 2011

by Nyc_Tattoo

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

The most on-brand thing Rusty could do at this point is turn Jonas into a Walking Eye.

Put Jonas in H.E.L.P.E.R.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
Hmm if only there were a beloved character who could, however implausibly, communicate with the dead?

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
I think there's a few ways to work Jonas returning into the show without cheapening things. Having Rusty revert to sidekick mode, much to everyone's confusion and disgust, would be funny, especially if Jonas expects Brock and Hatred to fall in line like the OG Team Venture, and the boys would likely have a fun perspective of the dynamic along the lines of "This explains SO MUCH." See Mallory and Sterling Archer.

And Jonas being at Rusty and co's mercy would also be a fun thing, as he's used to being totally in control; having to deal with how he left his son totally unprepared to take up his legacy, and suffering for it, because for the first time in his life he's at the mercy of others.

I do like that Pete White gets a chance to be relevant, and it shows that he's a super-scientist too- like I said, whes probably undersold his abilities to himself and others because his speciality is programming and computers, which just happens to be the most relevant thing to modern technology. I feel the key failing of Billy, Pete and Rusty is they keep trying to be omnidisciplinary comic book scientists when they're already exceptional in particular fields despite lacking formal education/qualifications and just need to focus on them.

WrathOfBlade
May 30, 2011

I have no idea what's going to happen in episode 3 but I'm confident it will be somewhere between the extremes of "Jonas is dead again with zero follow-up" and "the disembodied head of Jonas is a regular member of the cast".

Unrelated: I'm wondering if the ghosts that Orpheus summoned have anything to do with Jonas and PROBLEM, or if they're just random spirits that happened to be nearby. I thought that the angry natives and Scamp 1 were manifestations of Jonas' all-consuming guilt at first, but the millinery fire is definitely a Col. Lloyd Venture thing, right?

Mr. Fall Down Terror
Jan 24, 2018

by Fluffdaddy
they can't bring jonas back as a character, the show relies on his absence. Jonas is Dead

..except kinda not all the way dead, and imagine rusty trying to talk to the remains of his dad's psyche like orpheus in his closet dimension chats with the master. instead of for real revived flesh and blood jonas, i would prefer a glitchy rear end in a top hat cyber ghost jonas who speaks in hosed up riddles

WrathOfBlade posted:

Unrelated: I'm wondering if the ghosts that Orpheus summoned have anything to do with Jonas and PROBLEM, or if they're just random spirits that happened to be nearby. I thought that the angry natives and Scamp 1 were manifestations of Jonas' all-consuming guilt at first, but the millinery fire is definitely a Col. Lloyd Venture thing, right?

they are unrelated ghosts that were just kind of hanging around. orpheus was correct in that the venture building is haunted to poo poo, but the main cause of the freakouts going on were apparently jonas in the problem box loving with the building. you know JJ would immediately hook that sucker up, i only question if he knew what was inside of it (if he did, why put it in the lobby?)

iirc in venturelore, the ventech building is built on the location of the older venture businesses including lloyd's hat factory

Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Aug 6, 2018

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010

Pete White killed Jonas permanently and its hilarious.

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004

Bust Rodd posted:

Hmm if only there were a beloved character who could, however implausibly, communicate with the dead?

Nah, they'll just come up with some bullshit like when 24 died. Seriously, that whole "well I say I'm a necromancer but I'm just lying" was really weak storytelling, just to skirt the fact they didn't want to bring him back

revolther
May 27, 2008
I love that the PROBLEM light coming on is basically the ultimate come-uppance for Rusty. The entire series he's been a whiney little clusterfuck of daddy issues, and the entire time his dead father has been calling out to him from beyond the grave.

All of Rusty's problems in the series will be due to his ego the same as all of his failures as a son. Jonas will be like, "I even put your toy cowboy in the PROBLEM machine as a sign, remember when you got it Rusty I told you...."

axelblaze
Oct 18, 2006

Congratulations The One Concern!!!

You're addicted to Ivory!!

and...oh my...could you please...
oh my...

Grimey Drawer
So when they were originally on Gargantua 1, was there a given reason they never opened it up while trying to fix it? I'm genuinely asking. It's been so long since I've seen that episode

CaptainViolence
Apr 19, 2006

I'M GONNA GET YOU DUCK

lelandjs posted:

Wait, am I reading that timecode correctly? Are they getting a roughly hour and a half long finale?

[Edit: holy poo poo, yeah. It’s HH:MM:SS:FF. Hoooooly shiiit]

probably not—when you burn in timecode, the actual episode or whatever traditionally starts at 1 hour so you have time before that to add in the leader that contains info on whatever's about to start. i think most modern editing systems will let you do negative timecode instead, but i've never seen that used in an actual for-TV post-production environment.

WrathOfBlade
May 30, 2011

Alan_Shore posted:

Nah, they'll just come up with some bullshit like when 24 died. Seriously, that whole "well I say I'm a necromancer but I'm just lying" was really weak storytelling, just to skirt the fact they didn't want to bring him back

I'm not convinced that Orpheus wasn't just blowing Gary off in that episode - it's not like he had Evil Kenevil money to blow and I doubt Orpheus accepts vintage funnybooks as payment.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
Goddamn I missed this show.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

glam rock hamhock posted:

So when they were originally on Gargantua 1, was there a given reason they never opened it up while trying to fix it? I'm genuinely asking. It's been so long since I've seen that episode

Rusty has no idea how the station works so he just sits at a control panel and hits buttons and switches asking if the light is on or off.

Shindragon
Jun 6, 2011

by Athanatos

Cojawfee posted:

Rusty has no idea how the station works so he just sits at a control panel and hits buttons and switches asking if the light is on or off.

Hell he accidentally almost kills Brock.

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Mr. Fall Down Terror
Jan 24, 2018

by Fluffdaddy

glam rock hamhock posted:

So when they were originally on Gargantua 1, was there a given reason they never opened it up while trying to fix it? I'm genuinely asking. It's been so long since I've seen that episode

at that time, jonas wasn't in the problem box. it was just a blinking light that indicated a problem existed somewhere because jonas was that good and or arrogant at building space stations. there was no reason to open the box, the box just said there was a problem and not that it was the problem

remember that the reason the venture lore is so deep and interconnected is not because it is all expertly planned out but that doc hammer and jackson publick mine their own old offhand references to flesh them out

WrathOfBlade posted:

I'm not convinced that Orpheus wasn't just blowing Gary off in that episode - it's not like he had Evil Kenevil money to blow and I doubt Orpheus accepts vintage funnybooks as payment.

yeah orpheus has claimed at times to have resurrected celebrities like eval kenival and ronald reagan, but reagan suffered the final death because he passed orpheus a bad check

given that in the most recent episode he astral projects so he wont' be late to a meeting and also exorcises the lobby i'm guessing he could have raised 24 from the dead but chose not to and gave gary a cheap excuse

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