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iospace
Jan 19, 2038


GonadTheBallbarian posted:

is there a corpus of bullshit audio words somewhere? I'm trying to build a script to score forum posts for shits

Burn-in.

That's all you need.

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EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



‘Soundstage’ when actually listening to something.

GonadTheBallbarian
Jul 23, 2007


So far:

code:
## Define Bullshit, make vector
bullshit <- "extended, savory, savor, textured, thick, pure, bi-wire, ambience, fuller, lifelike, spatiality, revealing, pellucid, dynamic verve, 
threadbare, tautness, relaxed, rhythmic acuity, fleshier, bass weight, darker, dark sound, darker-sounding, coloration, colored, solidity, 
expressiveness, twitchy, timbres, vivid, neutral balance, softer, treble clarity, musicality, mids clarity, loudness ceiling, parasitic, toe-tapping, 
cooler, more forward, recessed, elegant, dynamic energy, electrifying, colorful timbre, rich, transient speed, dimensionality, spacious, 
unburnt-in, separation, overbright, restricted, liquid, silky, sparkle, sheen, spaciousness, distinctness, homogenized sound, tight bass, 
bodied, ambiance, tighter bass, bass was tighter, warmth, rendering, full-bodied, presentation, texture, textural, detail retreival, 
transparency, transparent, sound cleaner, more coherent, agile, timing differences, timing difference, anti-resonances, complex impedance,
 staging, shrinks, magic, broaden soundstage, deepen soundstage, vibrational, energy-field, divine, unbalanced, sizzle, sterile, bloated, 
flabby, woolly, spectral separation, naturalness, wide soundstage, crisp, fatiguing, immersiveness, sonically, feathery, light-footedness,
 tonal weight, tonal color, speedy, immersion, micro-detail, micro detail, crackle, articulate, sonic landscape, subtle cues, imaging, coherent,
 warm, sparkly, sparkle, bright, transient, transients, tonality, timbral accuracy, openness, open-ness, stirring, timbral, open-sky, sweet, 
brilliance, brilliant, dazzle, dazzling, airy, burn-in, breaking-in, break in, break-in, breakin, burnin, burn in, directional, blackbody, balanced,
 quantum, bleed, leaking, precious, jitter, dynamism, super dynamic, super-dynamic, thin sounding, sound thin, muddy, clear mids, clear treble,
 clear bass, air, veiled, veil, congested, airy, connisseur, connoiseurs"
smell <- "nuance, feel, nuances, leverage, fidelity, leverages, soundstage, resonance, headroom, authentic, presentation, clean, ambiance, 
natural, noise floor, effortless, timing, deterioration, fill out, brassy, tonal, defined, insightful, violent, blur, maelstrom, dynamics, atmosphere,
 riotous, dynamic sound, detailed, audiophile, audiophile product, balance, resonant, "

str_split(bullshit, pattern = ", ")
str_split(smell, pattern = ", ")

## Define information, make vector
performance_info <- "db, db(spl), dba, audible, emphasis, distortion, underemphasized, &#937;, mw, mv, vrms, overemphasized, phase, frequency response, KHz, Hz, "
basic_info <- "ear cup, xlr, 3.5mm, usb, dynamic driver, planar-magnetic, orthodynamic, electrostatic, open back, open-back, on-ear, on ear, closed back, closed-back, "
str_split(performance_info, pattern = ", ")
where objects:
bullshit = terms clearly 100% bullshit
smell = terms that can be used to describe an actual thing, but often aren't. <100% bullshit
performance_info = terms actually related to performance and related metrics
basic_info = terms used to describe the headphones (used for stripping out nouns/stuff that's in all reviews)

e. still building libraries, so this will be out of date like, immediately

GonadTheBallbarian fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Aug 7, 2018

Palladium
May 8, 2012

Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️
You forgot PRaT: Pace, Rhythm and Timing, the most hallowed of "it means just anything you can want it to mean" audiophile terms ever.

GonadTheBallbarian
Jul 23, 2007


I put timing, rhythm, and pace into "smell" because while is most contexts it's bullshit in an audiophile review, it's also possible that they're actually talking about parts of a song

A Lone Girl Flier
Sep 29, 2009

This post is dedicated to all those who fell by the forums, for nothing is wasted, and every apparent failure is but a challenge to others.
I think PRaT is supposed to refer to wow, flutter and jitter, but I think has grown over time to be a catch all for a piece of hardware's "musicality".

spookygonk
Apr 3, 2005
Does not give a damn

HiFi+ review competition to win $2500 cables.



Competition link - some goon win them and report back

spookygonk fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Aug 7, 2018

a busted-up mailbox
Dec 14, 2012

GonadTheBallbarian posted:

So far:

code:
## Define Bullshit, make vector
bullshit <- "extended, savory, savor, textured, thick, pure, bi-wire, ambience, fuller, lifelike, spatiality, revealing, pellucid, dynamic verve, 
threadbare, tautness, relaxed, rhythmic acuity, fleshier, bass weight, darker, dark sound, darker-sounding, coloration, colored, solidity, 
expressiveness, twitchy, timbres, vivid, neutral balance, softer, treble clarity, musicality, mids clarity, loudness ceiling, parasitic, toe-tapping, 
cooler, more forward, recessed, elegant, dynamic energy, electrifying, colorful timbre, rich, transient speed, dimensionality, spacious, 
unburnt-in, separation, overbright, restricted, liquid, silky, sparkle, sheen, spaciousness, distinctness, homogenized sound, tight bass, 
bodied, ambiance, tighter bass, bass was tighter, warmth, rendering, full-bodied, presentation, texture, textural, detail retreival, 
transparency, transparent, sound cleaner, more coherent, agile, timing differences, timing difference, anti-resonances, complex impedance,
 staging, shrinks, magic, broaden soundstage, deepen soundstage, vibrational, energy-field, divine, unbalanced, sizzle, sterile, bloated, 
flabby, woolly, spectral separation, naturalness, wide soundstage, crisp, fatiguing, immersiveness, sonically, feathery, light-footedness,
 tonal weight, tonal color, speedy, immersion, micro-detail, micro detail, crackle, articulate, sonic landscape, subtle cues, imaging, coherent,
 warm, sparkly, sparkle, bright, transient, transients, tonality, timbral accuracy, openness, open-ness, stirring, timbral, open-sky, sweet, 
brilliance, brilliant, dazzle, dazzling, airy, burn-in, breaking-in, break in, break-in, breakin, burnin, burn in, directional, blackbody, balanced,
 quantum, bleed, leaking, precious, jitter, dynamism, super dynamic, super-dynamic, thin sounding, sound thin, muddy, clear mids, clear treble,
 clear bass, air, veiled, veil, congested, airy, connisseur, connoiseurs"
smell <- "nuance, feel, nuances, leverage, fidelity, leverages, soundstage, resonance, headroom, authentic, presentation, clean, ambiance, 
natural, noise floor, effortless, timing, deterioration, fill out, brassy, tonal, defined, insightful, violent, blur, maelstrom, dynamics, atmosphere,
 riotous, dynamic sound, detailed, audiophile, audiophile product, balance, resonant, "

str_split(bullshit, pattern = ", ")
str_split(smell, pattern = ", ")

## Define information, make vector
performance_info <- "db, db(spl), dba, audible, emphasis, distortion, underemphasized, &#937;, mw, mv, vrms, overemphasized, phase, frequency response, KHz, Hz, "
basic_info <- "ear cup, xlr, 3.5mm, usb, dynamic driver, planar-magnetic, orthodynamic, electrostatic, open back, open-back, on-ear, on ear, closed back, closed-back, "
str_split(performance_info, pattern = ", ")
where objects:
bullshit = terms clearly 100% bullshit
smell = terms that can be used to describe an actual thing, but often aren't. <100% bullshit
performance_info = terms actually related to performance and related metrics
basic_info = terms used to describe the headphones (used for stripping out nouns/stuff that's in all reviews)

e. still building libraries, so this will be out of date like, immediately

A lot of those terms in the bullshit category are legitimately meaningful, with many of them being descriptors of frequency response, even if audiophools claim ridiculous things such as warmth being subjective to justify their snake-oil DAC purchase or are dumb enough to mistake amplifier hiss for air. They're certainly more useful terms than "insightful" or "effortless", at least.

"This headphone is airy and cool, not full, with a recessed presence region and tight bass, but is fatiguing." is quicker to say than "This headphone has emphasized treble above 12 kHz, a midrange response that slopes upwards up to 2 kHz, no midrange emphasis below 300 Hz, a treble dip at around 2.5 kHz, and a bass response that is neutral relative to my target frequency response curve down to about 100 Hz and not overemphasized below that. It also gives me a headache."

e: Rtings has done some interesting work trying to objectively measure soundstage by testing how the headphone's output interacts with the pinna.

a busted-up mailbox fucked around with this message at 13:13 on Aug 7, 2018

GonadTheBallbarian
Jul 23, 2007


ignoring the first part for now-

yes, RTings certainly likes to mess around with their expensive head. However the "objective soundstage stuff" is philosophically challenged, as some of that has to do with the shape of your head (and can't be measured, as it's useless for anyone that deviates from the test fixture). A HATS doesn't have an angled ear canal, for example. The GRAS and Bruel & Kjaer units just have a straight hole unless you get the latest and greatest KEMAR ear released this year.

as for the rest: I'm not entirely sure how you mean unquantifiable adjectives are useful, but if you were to present a non-audiophile, engineer, or non-musician none of this would make any goddamn sense unless you showed them what it meant. At least with the hard figures you can point to a chart and finding the supplemental info is easy. Hell you could even explain using songs and instruments and a chart.

KozmoNaut
Apr 23, 2008

Happiness is a warm
Turbo Plasma Rifle


spookygonk posted:

HiFi+ review competition to win $2500 cables.



Competition link - some goon win them and report back

I've entered. Let's see.

a busted-up mailbox
Dec 14, 2012

GonadTheBallbarian posted:

ignoring the first part for now-

yes, RTings certainly likes to mess around with their expensive head. However the "objective soundstage stuff" is philosophically challenged, as some of that has to do with the shape of your head (and can't be measured, as it's useless for anyone that deviates from the test fixture). A HATS doesn't have an angled ear canal, for example. The GRAS and Bruel & Kjaer units just have a straight hole unless you get the latest and greatest KEMAR ear released this year.

as for the rest: I'm not entirely sure how you mean unquantifiable adjectives are useful, but if you were to present a non-audiophile, engineer, or non-musician none of this would make any goddamn sense unless you showed them what it meant. At least with the hard figures you can point to a chart and finding the supplemental info is easy. Hell you could even explain using songs and instruments and a chart.

I don't disagree with you on the soundstage measurements being imperfect; frequency response also varies based on ear and head shape. That's different from saying that the measurements are meaningless. I seriously doubt that most people who've tried all three headphones would conclude that the HD600 has a better soundstage than a HEX or an HD800S.

As for the terms, calling them jargon is one thing, but calling them outright bullshit is overreaching. You can point to a chart for them as well, and people have. Audio engineers need to understand what frequencies correspond to what types of coloration for EQ purposes, too.

a busted-up mailbox fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Aug 7, 2018

GonadTheBallbarian
Jul 23, 2007


Load of crap.

It is totally, unequivocally bullshit. Even if it uses plots to haphazardly illustrate what they're trying to say, it is not and will not ever be enough that you can state "this thing sounds sparkly" and have people understand what's being communicated. Additionally, the goalposts don't seem to be fixed or defined in what makes something "bright" vs. "airy" or whateverthefuck. For any of those terms to have meaning, language requires that they be mutually-intelligible between speakers. That first link starts off well enough, but "cuppy?" Come the gently caress on.

Just because someone repuposed a word does not mean people are going to understand it. Language works by employing a shared lexicon. The audiophile lexicon does not translate to a general or non-group lexicon. The non-group will never adopt a minority definition of those words because, well, it's useless.

Lazlo Nibble
Jan 9, 2004

It was Weasleby, by God! At last I had the miserable blighter precisely where I wanted him!
but I have a chart!

A Lone Girl Flier
Sep 29, 2009

This post is dedicated to all those who fell by the forums, for nothing is wasted, and every apparent failure is but a challenge to others.
You can see the sparkles at the corners of the waveforms

a busted-up mailbox
Dec 14, 2012
Most people barely know how to describe sound at all beyond "this has lots of/no bass", so by that reasoning, effectively any attempt at describing how a headphone sounds is futile. It's an imperfect system, but unlike "insightful" or "atmospheric", it's something that people who know the terms can actually use to make informed purchase decisions. If anything, people will understand "This sounds like you're listening through a plastic cup" better than "This has a FR dip at 1 kHz".

Target curves exist to judge headphones against, and the idea that people perceiving sounds differently means it's impossible for a consensus to exist regarding a headphone's sound signature is ludicrous. "Bright" is nothing but shorthand for "this has emphasized treble", and nobody with properly functioning human ears would ever think of the HD650 as being thin and bright or the HE560 as being muddy and dark.

GonadTheBallbarian
Jul 23, 2007


Yikes

a busted-up mailbox
Dec 14, 2012
There's much lower-hanging fruit in hi-fi than whether audiophiles are dumb for using funny words to describe how headphones sound different. Like, there's an 81-page thread on Head-Fi of people flaming each other over whether USB cables sound any different.

e: The existence of variations in how headphone models sound are an absurd liberal myth, I guess. Anyone selling a more expensive headphone than the ATH-M40x is scamming people, including Audio-Technica themselves.

a busted-up mailbox fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Aug 8, 2018

ssb
Feb 16, 2006

WOULD YOU ACCOMPANY ME ON A BRISK WALK? I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK WITH YOU!!


Just because there's low-hanging fruit doesn't mean there's not normal-height fruit too.

GonadTheBallbarian
Jul 23, 2007


Or that the acceptance of an alternate vocabulary allows the more egregious poo poo by conmen when a population is trained to accept thought-terminating cliches.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









'Danceable'

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.

quote:

Batteries use a chemical reaction to generate DC power, and each chemical reaction from each type of battery has its own audible noise signature. This is why a specific type of battery, such as LiO4, sounds better than another type, such as SLA. The noise level of a battery also changes significantly during different phases of the discharge and recharge cycle, making batteries an inconsistent-sounding power source as well. And then there's the additional expense of replacing batteries every few years.

I'm sure it's been posted before, but it's worth a re-visit.

Panty Saluter
Jan 17, 2004

Making learning fun!
I feel like the SMPS would be low pass filtered anyway and that their suggested linear power supply would probably have a lot more thermal noise. Maybe.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


uhhhh....

quote:

In the real world, we are surrounded by sounds and frequencies which extend beyond the realm of what we perceive as ‘sound’. However, there is a growing body of evidence to suggest that we ‘sense’ these high frequencies, just as we ‘feel’ sub-sonic sounds.

I mean, it does something, at least.

TheLastManStanding
Jan 14, 2008
Mash Buttons!

The Super Tweeter Phase Conundrum posted:


Phase happens when two sound waves clash and ultimately cancel each other out, meaning that the sound becomes unpleasant to listen to. Bass sound waves travel slower than treble sound wavers so if the treble and bass sound waves are traveling from the same location, the treble wave will reach your ear before the bass. Most loudspeaker brands compensate for this by adjusting the phase of the tweeter and woofers producing sound waves.

The issue is that most Super Tweeter speakers now in the market do not have adjustable parameters for phase. But Aperion Audio’s Super Tweeter Speaker is adjustable across the frequency band, so it blends into audio system.

The speaker allows you to feel the treble sound pressure and experience the higher frequency range which you may not have heard or felt before.

The Aperion Audio Super Tweeter speaker utilizes a premium Ribbon Tweeter to create a full range of clear rich audio details that provide strong sense of three-dimensional sound.
Phase happens... Bass is slower than treble waves... Use your crossover as a phase adjust... Feel that treble sound pressure and those three-dimensional sounds.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


I'm pretty sure every frequency of sound travels the same speed through a given medium. I'm absolutely sure Adjusting the phase of two different frequencies can't make a difference unless one is a multiple of the other (or at least they reduce to a fraction with a low denominator).

Zorak of Michigan
Jun 10, 2006

KillHour posted:

I'm pretty sure every frequency of sound travels the same speed through a given medium. I'm absolutely sure Adjusting the phase of two different frequencies can't make a difference unless one is a multiple of the other (or at least they reduce to a fraction with a low denominator).

I actually Googled this because I didn't remember, and the consensus of sites seems to be that there's a very small difference in the speed of sound by frequency. It's nearly irrelevant in the audible range. With floor speakers, the tweeters are closer to ear level, so the higher frequencies absolutely will reach your ear first, but not because of the speed of sound. Some crossover designs aren't phase-coherent either. I note with amusement their lack of clarity as to what sort of curve their crossover users.

Panty Saluter
Jan 17, 2004

Making learning fun!
There's also the issue of pure inertia. A paper thin 1" tweeter does not take as long to start and stop as an 8" or more woofer, so you probably get some delay there as well. Almost any decent speaker accounts for this though.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
I figured with the new mainboard of mine and that pretend-fancy onboard audio, I would maybe ditch my Soundblaster ZxR card for being useless. There's audible noise on my headphones when nothing's playing :toot:

Panty Saluter
Jan 17, 2004

Making learning fun!

Combat Pretzel posted:

I figured with the new mainboard of mine and that pretend-fancy onboard audio, I would maybe ditch my Soundblaster ZxR card for being useless. There's audible noise on my headphones when nothing's playing :toot:

I'm still mad that support for the Santa Cruz ended with XP. That was an amazing little card when every other option (even the "good" stuff) would screech like a banshee at more than moderate levels and had all kinds of noise in the output

qirex
Feb 15, 2001

Combat Pretzel posted:

I figured with the new mainboard of mine and that pretend-fancy onboard audio, I would maybe ditch my Soundblaster ZxR card for being useless. There's audible noise on my headphones when nothing's playing :toot:

I had that at work several years ago, after a while I figured out the noise was triggered by moving my [wired] mouse. Nice work, Dell.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
It appears to be generic white noise. Not sure what component triggers it. First system I own with water cooling, who knows what all those fans and the water pump do to the power bus.

Either way, it's kind of annoying, since I keep reading left and right how good on-board audio is and how stupid soundcards are, and the moment I go with that notion...

LRADIKAL
Jun 10, 2001

Fun Shoe
Sound blaster means nothing. If the motherboard maker doesn't isolate the sound bits or you have noisy electronics, poo poo is gonna happen. So your sound hisses? I'm sure you've checked that your volume levels are all reasonable?

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Yeah, volume levels are fine. It seems to pick something up. Most mainboard manufacturers boast with PCB level isolation, like split ground plane, copper shielding bits, whatever else that means. Mine has that stuff, and things are still meh. Either way, issue solved by reusing the sound card. Which I'm surprised isn't causing similar issues, because it's caked between a graphics card and a 40Gbit Ethernet card (which I'm fairly certain should create all sort of EMI).

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


Why the hell do you have a 40Gb Ethernet card? How expensive was the QSFP GBIC for that thing? What kind of switch is it going into? Just why? :psyduck:

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
40GBit direct connection to the NAS, and I'm using DAC cables. All from Ebay, so it was relatively cheap considering. The NAS has 32GB RAM and a 256GB SSD as second level cache, so if the caches are hot, things are pretty fast. 10GBit would probably suffice, and I had cards a long while before, but for some reason 4K QD1 IO is twice as fast on the newer card, despite being nowhere in the ballpark of 10 or 40GBit.

ssb
Feb 16, 2006

WOULD YOU ACCOMPANY ME ON A BRISK WALK? I WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK WITH YOU!!


I'm going to go ahead and assume you did that for funsies, similar to how I used to run separate servers for DNS, DHCP, Fileserver, and Router back in the mid-2000's for my home network, and not that you think you actually need any of that crap.

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!
Yeah kinda. I kinda wanted NVMe-ish speeds to hot data on the NAS, and this was a part to enabling it, thanks to Ebay anyway, but it's kinda unnecessary.

As far as not needing it for the performance side, I have plenty of apps and games installed on the NAS instead of locally.

KillHour
Oct 28, 2007


But if you're directly connected to the NAS, how is that an improvement over DAS with the same drives?

GnarlyCharlie4u
Sep 23, 2007

I have an unhealthy obsession with motorcycles.

Proof

qirex posted:

I had that at work several years ago, after a while I figured out the noise was triggered by moving my [wired] mouse. Nice work, Dell.
:same:

I'm 100% in support of having a separate DAC for desktops. I mean why not isolate the audio from all the things that gently caress up audio signals? Especially when you can get one that provides you a convenient place to plug your headphones in and has a nice feeling knob to control the volume?
I don't understand people who scoff at spending any amount of money on a dac/headphone amp.
Yes, the on-board audio is perfectly capable of handling umpteen bajillion bitrates beyond whatever we can even hear. Yes, it's just 1's and 0's and there is no magical voodoo going on. But having a nice looking piece of hardware with knobs within inches of my mouse hand driving my headphones or taking my mic input is a nice luxury.
On the flip side of that coin, don't pretend that your fancy DAC is doing anything other than providing convenience and isolating your audio signals. It's not.

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qirex
Feb 15, 2001

There's a huge gap between a $99 Micca G2 and "check out my sweet Schiit stack featuring tubes and the world's noisiest DAC."

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