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chiasaur11 posted:Things undone: 1. That was a dumb thing that only idiots believed to be important. 2. Snoke sucked. Once again, another dumb thing people latched on it. 3. Still is. It’s outright said in the first scene with Kylo Ren. 4. No one said anything about phasma’s fate. 5. Yes. They did. And then the first order retaliated by going directly after the resistance. 6. Yeah and he recovered from Them. 7. It exists what’s the big deal.
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Aug 12, 2018 01:34
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CelticPredator posted:
People latched on because he was set up to be some big bad like the emperor in 4-6 Then he died and people were like eh wtf?
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Aug 12, 2018 01:39
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Snoke sucked in the first place so I don’t get it. Bad move from JJizzle.
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Aug 12, 2018 04:01
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CelticPredator posted:1. That was a dumb thing that only idiots believed to be important. Give it a rest bitch
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Aug 12, 2018 04:13
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The blow done to the First Order undone? It's like the First Order... struck back or something 
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Aug 12, 2018 04:38
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The problem with Snoke dying is that the movies did a terrible job of explaining the state of the galaxy and his backstory was presumably a big part of that.
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Aug 12, 2018 04:50
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Awakens was a response to criticisms of the prequels and TLJ was a response to criticisms of Awakens that it didn't break any new ground but they have no specific criticism to take with episode IX. At most it's just "make a better movie" and how do you do that
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Aug 12, 2018 05:20
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chiasaur11 posted:Things undone:  Everything didn't play out exactly like I wanted
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Aug 12, 2018 08:00
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Dishwasher posted:Wearing a cool costume that looks good on an action figure on your office desk is the most important thing you can do! i'd personally prefer it if he used that 3 hours to tell a complete story cuntman.net fucked around with this message at 08:34 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 08:31
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Dishwasher posted:I'm not shocked at the rumors of splitting the story into two films and sorta predicted it with the lack of focus on the Roman numbering this go round. lol. They neglected the roman numerals in the marketing because that's what the original trilogy did. It wasn't until the prequels came out that "Episode X,Y,Z - Movie Title Here" started. The original sequels were billed as Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back and Star Wars: Return of the Jedi. All of them had the episode number in the opening crawl though.
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Aug 12, 2018 08:46
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chiasaur11 posted:Rey was implied to have some kind of Backstory. Like, half her scenes in The Force Awakens were using pretty basic cinematic language to say "Hey, pay attention. This is going to be Important". Same with Snoke. "This guy's gonna be important!" "Why?" "Uh, I dunno. You think of a reason."
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Aug 12, 2018 10:29
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well, snoke was obviously going to be plagueis given they used that theme and all and that time daisy ridley basically blurted it out at a convention
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Aug 12, 2018 10:43
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:well, snoke was obviously going to be plagueis given they used that theme and all Plus you've got things like the Resistance music sounding like the Nazi themes in Indiana Jones, and Sideways' argument that Williams didn't know what Rey's plotline was going to be and so just planned for everything that suggest the music shouldn't be the last word. Doctor Spaceman fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 11:19
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Doctor Spaceman posted:The problem with Snoke dying is that the movies did a terrible job of explaining the state of the galaxy and his backstory was presumably a big part of that. Its this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Aug 12, 2018 11:29
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Also, he's strongly tied to other character's motivations and goals. As is, TLJ basically says "Oh, Luke became suicidally depressed and Kylo went evil because of Snoke's manipulation. What? Who's Snoke, and what's he up to? Hah, why would anyone care about that?!"
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Aug 12, 2018 12:20
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I honestly didn't realise that Snoke had been deliberately set up as a big mystery in TFA. Rey's background, sure, that was clearly being set up for something, but there's not really a lot to Snoke in Force Awakens. He just seemed like a stock character to me; a big dark side guy who led the villain faction. Obviously he must have had a backstory but it didn't seem all that important to me and I was genuinely surprised that so many people seemed to be so invested in it. Do you get what I mean? At the end of TFA, they'd set some things up to be answered in the next one, but I didn't come away thinking Snoke was one of them. I guess I've never really gone in big for fan theories, though, so maybe I had the wrong mindset.
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Aug 12, 2018 12:40
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He felt like he was being deliberately teased for the next one, in much the same way as the Emperor was in ESB. He's established as the real power behind the villains we see, we don't get to see him outside of a hologram, there's spooky music playing around him... There wasn't anything particularly interesting about him, and the name was terrible, but what there was - to me, at least - screamed 'sequel hook'. Of course, the same could be said about Maul in 'Solo', so maybe the brains behind Star Wars at the moment just like establishing shadowy nonentities.
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Aug 12, 2018 12:49
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Angry Salami posted:He felt like he was being deliberately teased for the next one, in much the same way as the Emperor was in ESB. He's established as the real power behind the villains we see, we don't get to see him outside of a hologram, there's spooky music playing around him... There wasn't anything particularly interesting about him, and the name was terrible, but what there was - to me, at least - screamed 'sequel hook'. Again, maybe I'm just looking at it in the wrong way. I don't think I got a "sequel hook" vibe from him as a character in the sense that we were going to learn loads about his true identity (I didn't even realise he was supposed to have a true identity and all this "Snoke is Plagueis" is literally new to me today!); he was just the villain behind Kylo and Hux and he was going to be in the next one. I never felt like his backstory or "Where did Snoke come from?" was going to be a big thing; it just wasn't interesting to me because the fact that he was some grandstanding Ming the Merciless archetype was good enough for me. Maybe that's why I actually quite enjoyed his perfunctory demise?  I realise that other people wanted to know more and there are gaps that TLJ probably should have worked harder to fill in, but to me it was, "How did Snoke turn Kylo to the dark side?", not, "Who is Snoke?" Granted, we never find out how Palpatine turned Vader to the dark side in ROTJ (we only know that he did and Vader's basically cowed by him - all the "It is pointless to resist, my son," stuff) but I think that's a different situation. Anyway, using the spoiler thread for potential spoilers, here's some rumours for you.
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Aug 12, 2018 13:00
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Snoks politics are interesting. The Why he is a threat is interesting. The character wasnt that interesting and the story is basically the opposite of interesting
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Aug 12, 2018 14:43
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The problem of Star Wars is that its storytelling is fundamentally quite limited. Every time you attempt to widen the scope of the conflict beyond Rebels vs. Evil Empire everything just gets bogged down and boring, because at its core it's a story about a handful of people who inhabit this world rather than galactic politics that nobody cares about. The original trilogy knew that less was more in this regard, all attempts thereafter to define the stakes of the conflict have just fallen flat and you're left wondering why you should even care about this band of assholes playing cops and robbers at the rear end end of space.
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Aug 12, 2018 16:16
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Question Friend posted:Give it a rest bitch It’s a just a movie you gently caress
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Aug 12, 2018 17:57
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exquisite tea posted:The problem of Star Wars is that its storytelling is fundamentally quite limited. Every time you attempt to widen the scope of the conflict beyond Rebels vs. Evil Empire everything just gets bogged down and boring, because at its core it's a story about a handful of people who inhabit this world rather than galactic politics that nobody cares about. The original trilogy knew that less was more in this regard, all attempts thereafter to define the stakes of the conflict have just fallen flat and you're left wondering why you should even care about this band of assholes playing cops and robbers at the rear end end of space. The problem of Star Wars is that it is an already told story. The most interesting things to happen in Star Wars happened in three movies and everything else is trivialities bloated up to feature or novel length. It doesn't matter how good or bad those trivialities are, they are side stories. Maybe one day we get an Odyssey to The Trilogies Trojan War, but until then its just profitable, sometimes fun, sometimes not, action sci fi.
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Aug 12, 2018 18:12
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Wheat Loaf posted:I honestly didn't realise that Snoke had been deliberately set up as a big mystery in TFA. Rey's background, sure, that was clearly being set up for something, but there's not really a lot to Snoke in Force Awakens. He just seemed like a stock character to me; a big dark side guy who led the villain faction. Obviously he must have had a backstory but it didn't seem all that important to me and I was genuinely surprised that so many people seemed to be so invested in it. I think this is what a lot of people don't get when they bitch about TLJ-haters (like myself). They'll say "Those dumbasses wanted Snoke to be Plagueis / Maul / Jar-Jar", but the people who actually wanted something that dumb are in the extreme minority. I'm just annoyed that he was literally given zero backstory; even a single throwaway line like "Snoke was a padawan Jedi who escaped the purge and has spent the last 60 years hiding and being evil" or "Snoke was an alien warlord who seized control of the First Order" would have done the job. (Remember that in A New Hope, we hear basically nothing about the Emperor except for his dissolution of the Senate). It's fine for him to be a stock character, but when you're making a movie that has six others coming in before it, you can't just drop another Big Bad in with literally zero context or backstory. It's just bad and lazy writing.
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Aug 12, 2018 18:14
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Beef Hardcheese posted:I think this is what a lot of people don't get when they bitch about TLJ-haters (like myself). They'll say "Those dumbasses wanted Snoke to be Plagueis / Maul / Jar-Jar", but the people who actually wanted something that dumb are in the extreme minority. I'm just annoyed that he was literally given zero backstory; even a single throwaway line like "Snoke was a padawan Jedi who escaped the purge and has spent the last 60 years hiding and being evil" or "Snoke was an alien warlord who seized control of the First Order" would have done the job. (Remember that in A New Hope, we hear basically nothing about the Emperor except for his dissolution of the Senate). It's fine for him to be a stock character, but when you're making a movie that has six others coming in before it, you can't just drop another Big Bad in with literally zero context or backstory. It's just bad and lazy writing. This x1000 it’s loving irritating.
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Aug 12, 2018 18:39
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Perhaps my disbelief is too suspended.
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Aug 12, 2018 18:59
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Smoke is just the latest rear end in a top hat in charge and it's better that way. Pretty funny it flusters so many feathers amongst aspiring screenwriters though!
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Aug 12, 2018 19:28
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Beef Hardcheese posted:It's fine for him to be a stock character, but when you're making a movie that has six others coming in before it, you can't just drop another Big Bad in with literally zero context or backstory. It's just bad and lazy writing. why though?
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Aug 12, 2018 19:30
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The thing about the Emperor is that, even though he has no backstory, his design and position tell you what his deal is: he's head of the galactic government, and also he's a dark and corrupt wizard. What is Snoke? He's the "Supreme Leader" which sounds like he's the head of some kind of cult of personality but which might also be a government or quasi-military title (Kim Jong Un?) But we never see him really interact with anyone outside of Snoke and Hux. The Emperor speaks in a weird voice and has growths and stuff, which suggests he's corrupted, whereas Snoke has a strong voice and what seem to be scars, so he's been in a fight and gotten hosed up but...again hard to parse. Who was he fighting Luke? Jedi? He wears opulent golden robes which suggest he's some kind of aesthete or wealthy fop or something but he also is a very powerful dark wizard. He's just kind of a mess. Edit: The real, legitimate complaint isn't that he doesn't get a backstory or that he dies unceremoniously but that he's a lovely character. If Hux suddenly had a heart attack at the end of TLJ people would be a bit confused but they wouldn't be claiming he was secretly Jett Dexster. porfiria fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 19:34
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The most frustrating thing about the ST is that I still have no idea what the first order is How many of them are there? How do they pay for their military? Why doesn't anyone else outside of the fourteen people left in the resistance think that this organization who just blew up a bunch of planets is worth dealing with?
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Aug 13, 2018 13:56
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chiasaur11 posted:Things undone: This is pretty much why episode 8 sucked. It was just some new director talking it in a "new direction" that ended up sucking and letting us all down on the cool stuff that had been set up. I completely skipped out on solo in protest (still haven't seen it, and don't care to) and I'll be skipping out on episode 9 too unless they do a 180 on this bullshit story telling.
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Aug 13, 2018 19:58
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Gonz posted:Billy Snoke was one major player at the start of TLJ and by the end he was TWO major players. He then fell into the blender that exists at the base of his chair for whatever reason, so he's now an uncountable number of players
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Aug 13, 2018 20:46
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My favorite part of Episode 8 is after the movie ended, looking at the confused face of the audience as they walked out of the theaters.
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Aug 13, 2018 21:10
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spacetoaster posted:This is pretty much why episode 8 sucked. It was just some new director talking it in a "new direction" that ended up sucking and letting us all down on the cool stuff that had been set up. I'll never get over Kylo Ren's scar!!!!
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Aug 13, 2018 21:26
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Instead of building the universe in TLJ like they had in every other entry in the series (book, comic, movie, etc), they simply decided to do nothing and 'then' be all like "LOL nerds". It's like they were too busy patting themselves on the back for the billion already in the bank, they forgot to write a movie that made sense given the previous one. RJ had a right to be mad about being handed basically no answers for the set ups in TFA as it undoubtedly made his job much harder, especially if he had no interest in following those up anyway. He signed on to write a movie, not carry JJs baggage. But keep that passive aggression to awkward Twitter interactions and out of the movie. Jerk McJerkface posted:My favorite part of Episode 8 is after the movie ended, looking at the confused face of the audience as they walked out of the theaters. This was a movie that people were ready to accept and celebrate no mater how bad and it pushed even 'those' limits. For all the issues, people walked out of the prequels as well as TFA and R1 pretty jazzed up on opening day. Walking out of the theater for TLJ was like walking out of a funeral. It was like I'd watched the midnight release of Transporter 9 with the sheer amount of indifference and "welp" around. Dishwasher fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Aug 13, 2018 |
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Aug 13, 2018 21:35
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snoke seems like a weird complaint when the script has obvious issues: the 5 or 6 fake-outs, Rey still not having any established character of her own and basically being a tool for luke and ren's growth, the pacing problems in the 2nd act you don't need a direct explanation to understand the first order: fascists who were allowed to grow in power because they were enabled by people who either didn't want to fight or who secretly shared their goals
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Aug 13, 2018 21:42
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Dishwasher posted:This was a movie that people were ready to accept and celebrate no mater how bad and it pushed even 'those' limits. For all the issues, people walked out of the prequels as well as TFA and R1 pretty jazzed up on opening day. Walking out of the theater for TLJ was like walking out of a funeral. It was like I'd watched the midnight release of Transporter 9 with the sheer amount of indifference and "welp" around. This is why Episode IX will do badly. I can't help myself.
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Aug 13, 2018 21:50
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You can't just throw away a character like they did Snoke in TLJ after you just made him integral to not just the plot in general, but many main characters motivations in particular. Kylo does everything he's does explicitly because of Snoke. The First Order runs on Snoke and is shown to need him as a lynchpin. But if we ask the obvious "Why?" we're told "LOL not important" when it explicitly is.
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Aug 13, 2018 22:44
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Love dropping important plot threads to trigger the libs.
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Aug 13, 2018 22:59
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exquisite tea posted:Love dropping important plot threads to trigger the libs. This is the thing, TLJ just struck me as being written to be intentionally adversarial towards it's audience. Hence Luke's weird rear end in a top hat version of Yoda act.
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Aug 13, 2018 23:03
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They can rehabilitate Episode 8 by having it confirmed in the opening crawl of Episode 9 that Luke did, in fact, molest Kylo, and that by dying he has become a malevolent Force ghost that Kylo and Rey must bang to defeat
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Aug 13, 2018 23:23
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