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Nosfereefer posted:sengoku in space This reminded me: whoever made the goon race "Honorable 1v1" deserves a gold star. Those guys crack me up.
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Aug 11, 2018 22:37
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Vengarr posted:This reminded me: whoever made the goon race "Honorable 1v1" deserves a gold star. Those guys crack me up. I made my own goon race. They were a devouring (goon)swarm of solitary repugnant bug people. Together we ate the universe clean (mostly). I thought I was pretty accurate. It was actually the most fun I've had in Stellaris playing them, SA stereotypes or not.
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Aug 11, 2018 22:58
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Strudel Man posted:Eh, it's a pretty long chain for a Soundgarden reference. 
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Aug 12, 2018 03:27
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Are destroyers even worth making mid-late game? Every battle I get in, they pretty much get wiped out in the first three seconds while the rest of my fleet escapes unscathed.
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Aug 12, 2018 14:59
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You should basically never make anything but pure corvette swarms up until the crisis hits, at which point depending on the crisis it might make sense to build pure specialized anti-crisis battleship fleets instead.
Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 15:03
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psydude posted:Are destroyers even worth making mid-late game? Every battle I get in, they pretty much get wiped out in the first three seconds while the rest of my fleet escapes unscathed. Destroyers are kind of the red headed step child right now. They just don't really fit in anywhere. I think it's pretty well established that if you want to min-max do this: Crazycryodude posted:You should basically never make anything but pure corvette swarms up until the crisis hits, at which point depending on the crisis it might make sense to build pure specialized anti-crisis battleship fleets instead. But honestly I find that really boring and you're not going to lose the game if you build mixed fleets of your choice for the entire game. Personally, I will use corvettes only until I hit cruisers and then I'll start building mixed fleets. It's honestly whatever I'm kinda feeling at the moment. But once I can build battleships I always have them as the backbone of any fleet.
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Aug 12, 2018 15:26
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I skip destroyers entirely, they don't have the effectiveness of corvettes or the cool factor of cruisers/battleships/titans. Once I get the cruiser tech I'll stop building corvettes for a while and use attrition and naval cap gains to make room for some cruiser fleets, but I'll always keep at least one rapid response/war of attrition corvette swarm around. Same when battleships, with Titans mixed in. Unless you mean making actually mixed fleets, as in a fleet with cruisers and corvettes and battleships all in the same fleet. In Stellaris that will (unfortunately) make for some real frustrating wars. Splicer fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 15:44
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Splicer posted:I skip destroyers entirely, they don't have the effectiveness of corvettes or the cool factor of cruisers/battleships/titans. Once I get the cruiser tech I'll stop building corvettes for a while and use attrition and naval cap gains to make room for some cruiser fleets, but I'll always keep at least one rapid response/war of attrition corvette swarm around. Same when battleships, with Titans mixed in. I usually keep my mixed fleets with two types. I favor either corvette, battleship or cruisers, battleship. Later on I might change one of my fleets to all battleships to make attrition versus the large crisis fleets less of a thing.
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Aug 12, 2018 16:09
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Destroyers mostly upset me because I'm attached to missiles and they don't have any slots for guided weapons.
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Aug 12, 2018 16:10
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Crazycryodude posted:You should basically never make anything but pure corvette swarms up until the crisis hits, at which point depending on the crisis it might make sense to build pure specialized anti-crisis battleship fleets instead. this is not actually true the corvette swarm is deeply inefficient at handling large targets and will take heavy casualties in situations that a mixed fleet won't. that's both expensive and terrible for your war exhaustion. this problem just becomes worse if you have any kind of auto-repair - big ships are really, really tanky if they have the chance to heal between fights every time, while corvettes don't benefit very much. all-corvette fast response fleets make sense as a small component of your overall navy, but not as your primary fleet. if you're winning wars with corvette swarms simply by outproducing your casualties you probably need to go up a difficulty level. and of course never use corvette swarms in multiplayer, the only reason they work decently against the AI is because the AI does not like kitting its cruisers out for anti-corvette duty Jazerus fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 16:52
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Having fleets of cruisers and one or more battleship + titan fleets is good times, but popping a couple of battleships into a corvette fleet is just going to slow down your corvettes. You want a mixed navy yes, but outside of niche circumstances each hull upgrade is trading speed for firepower. Anything a destroyer can do a properly laid out cruiser can do better, and same for cruisers vs battleships. If destroyers/corvettes/battleships had meaningful niches you might want to take the speed hit for the synergy boost, but in actuality you just get the slowness of the biggest ship and reduced firepower from the smaller ships, so worst rather than best of both worlds. That's part of why destroyers are in such a weird place. Corvettes have a specific thing going on. Cruisers are very different to corvettes, with significantly different combat capabilities. Battleships are kind of cruisers ++ but they have their own unique things too and they're hitting the stage of slowness where it's a meaningful problem. But destroyers are just slow corvettes that don't dodge good. Real-life destroyers are escorts for bigger ships to keep them safe from small nippy ships, making them actually good at that would give them a thing to do. Bundle them with Cruisers into one tech so you unlock both at once and give the destroyers corvette killing powers and we have something. e: what I'm trying to say is, if you ignore destroyers I think the hull balance is in a good place, and it's currently a bad idea to field a fleet with more than one ship type in it (excluding Titans) Splicer fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 18:20
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Are Titans even that good? I always use them because they are Rad As Hell, but I suspect they're pretty much just there to shoot at other Titans (which is still cool). Good against stations, but at that point what isn't?
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Aug 12, 2018 18:53
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Nosfereefer posted:Are Titans even that good? I always use them because they are Rad As Hell, but I suspect they're pretty much just there to shoot at other Titans (which is still cool). Good against stations, but at that point what isn't? Their big gun kicks the crap out of battleships and cruisers too.
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Aug 12, 2018 19:13
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Corvettes have an enormous advantage in the hull researches. The +hull for corvettes is relatively cheap and often kicks their effectiveness up too high for new ships to compete with until you also have the +hulls for them, which is a big premium in time, research points, and RNG luck. The distinction between hulls and weapons in stellaris is typically (but not always) marginal. There's not usually a qualitative difference with effective counters, but more a relatively mild quantitative-efficiency one. So the advantages of focused research and industrial tooling are often greater than attempts at diversity.
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Aug 12, 2018 19:19
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Splicer posted:Having fleets of cruisers and one or more battleship + titan fleets is good times, but popping a couple of battleships into a corvette fleet is just going to slow down your corvettes. You want a mixed navy yes, but outside of niche circumstances each hull upgrade is trading speed for firepower. Anything a destroyer can do a properly laid out cruiser can do better, and same for cruisers vs battleships. If destroyers/corvettes/battleships had meaningful niches you might want to take the speed hit for the synergy boost, but in actuality you just get the slowness of the biggest ship and reduced firepower from the smaller ships, so worst rather than best of both worlds. mixed fleets keep your big ships safe. combat range and roles do give corvettes and battleships niches (i agree that destroyers are in a bad place); corvettes are your front line due to the swarm computer, and exist to tie up and destroy enemy corvettes. you don't want the enemy swarm anywhere near your big ships because then they can whittle them down; corvettes essentially take on part of the role of real-life destroyers, with medium-outfitted picket cruisers taking the other part. there's more going on in combat than a big ball of death - positioning and the strength of the front line matter.
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Aug 12, 2018 19:38
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I'm meh on corvette swarms because whenever I try to field one in a game, I'll have like a 100k torpvette fleet go up against a 50k station and just all loving die because they do barely any damage to it. I've never found myself with a fleet cap high enough that I can make enough for them to become useful versus a battleship+ fleet using the same amount of fleet points. NSC makes them even more useless because Strike Cruisers fill their position later in the game and even they're kinda meh. The big advantage everyone seems to tout is they are cheap, easy to replace, have a high disengage chance and move fast. But their disengage chance only procs at all when hit while under 35% hull, and do you know what's faster than a corvette fleet? A fleet that I don't have to reinforce after every single battle. Black Pants fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 19:43
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I hate titans because they are always the first ship in the fleet to die and then it takes absolutely forever to replace them. I wish they'd flip the entire disengagement chance mechanic on its head, with bigger ships more likely to peace out when they start to take damage, while corvettes die too quick to have a chance to escape.
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Aug 12, 2018 19:45
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Nightgull posted:Their big gun kicks the crap out of battleships and cruisers too. Every single one you have removes an opposing battleship the moment combat starts, which is pretty drat awesome. Baronjutter posted:I hate titans because they are always the first ship in the fleet to die and then it takes absolutely forever to replace them. I wish they'd flip the entire disengagement chance mechanic on its head, with bigger ships more likely to peace out when they start to take damage, while corvettes die too quick to have a chance to escape. I very rarely lose them, and usually if I do it means the entire fleet is lost as well. But by the time I'm actually deploying titans I'm running around with only BS+Titan fleets, so I'm pretty sure the battleships soak up some hits. Also, make sure you always have the -firerate and -shields auras in your fleet. If you have room, add the +firerate and +tracking auras. Late game I run a 20 BS + 4 titan fleet, one of each aura.
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Aug 12, 2018 19:52
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the point of destroyers is the escort computer. It is pretty useful for PD. It's not much but its something.Black Pants posted:I'm meh on corvette swarms because whenever I try to field one in a game, I'll have like a 100k torpvette fleet go up against a 50k station and just all loving die because they do barely any damage to it. I've never found myself with a fleet cap high enough that I can make enough for them to become useful versus a battleship+ fleet using the same amount of fleet points. NSC makes them even more useless because Strike Cruisers fill their position later in the game and even they're kinda meh.
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Aug 12, 2018 19:55
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Jazerus posted:mixed fleets keep your big ships safe. combat range and roles do give corvettes and battleships niches (i agree that destroyers are in a bad place); corvettes are your front line due to the swarm computer, and exist to tie up and destroy enemy corvettes. you don't want the enemy swarm anywhere near your big ships because then they can whittle them down; corvettes essentially take on part of the role of real-life destroyers, with medium-outfitted picket cruisers taking the other part. I have never seen any ship, in any role, in any version of the game, do anything other then charge the enemy ships full tilt. The rest of what you said is pretty spot on (I'm a big fan of picket cruisers), but I disregard positioning because it simply doesn't exist.
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Aug 12, 2018 19:56
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:the point of destroyers is the escort computer. It is pretty useful for PD. It's not much but its something. Point Defense isn't really worth taking imo, except maybe in multiplayer?
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Aug 12, 2018 20:02
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binge crotching posted:Every single one you have removes an opposing battleship the moment combat starts, which is pretty drat awesome. That's what I'd try to do, but even in a small battle the titan would always be the first to go. I'd have some 20BB + 2 Titan fleet and after a battle with an enemy with half the fleet power my losses would always be something like 2BB + 1 titan". I haven't played in a while though I remember a long while ago some mention in a patch that made titans have more HP or less likely to be hyper-targeted by the enemy?
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Aug 12, 2018 20:17
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Jabarto posted:I have never seen any ship, in any role, in any version of the game, do anything other then charge the enemy ships full tilt. The rest of what you said is pretty spot on (I'm a big fan of picket cruisers), but I disregard positioning because it simply doesn't exist. they do stuff based off their computers. i.e. artillery will go to long range and stop. They won't endeavour to keep the range open though. Escort tries to stick to other ships. Destroyer/Battleship is a valid comp in terms of positioning behavior. binge crotching posted:Point Defense isn't really worth taking imo, except maybe in multiplayer? It can have an outsized impact on missile strategies. It's just not universally applicable, and you can get through the game just tanking missiles for the most part. If you rely too heavily on missiles yourself, you may notice AI empires switching to PD, and it having a deleterious effect on your combat efficiency. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 20:53
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:They won't endeavour to keep the range open though. This is one of the biggest issues with combat in its current incarnation, I feel - ships should definitely be attempting to keep to their maximum engagement range as defined by their computers. It would give battleships and destroyers a few extra precious seconds to do their thing to corvettes and the like and possibly shake up the swarm meta people are talking about - it wouldn't render vettes useless by any means, since they're still faster than any battleship or destroyer, but it would open them up to more fire (especially from XL mounts) and possibly knock them off their efficiency pedestal. Psycho Landlord fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 21:03
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Point defense is *really* good against that FE type that uses tons of strike craft and missiles (I think it's the spiritualist one). And I mean *really* good. But they're an outlier, because I'm fairly certain that like 80-90% of their damage output is vulnerable to PD. So again - it all depends. Even then you can just not use PD and get away with it, but you might take a few more losses than you otherwise would.
Ice Fist fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 21:11
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Jabarto posted:I have never seen any ship, in any role, in any version of the game, do anything other then charge the enemy ships full tilt. The rest of what you said is pretty spot on (I'm a big fan of picket cruisers), but I disregard positioning because it simply doesn't exist. Yeah, same. I have yet to ever see them ever actually try and hold a standoff range against a target. Personally I'm a huge fan of all Cruiser fleets, they're big enough to be survivable, and fast enough to chase down AI fleets, since they never do the all corvette thing. You can mix Titans in there with enough afterburners to keep up, but I find they're always the first to die, and they take so long to rebuild, so I just don't bother anymore. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 21:25
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Baronjutter posted:I hate titans because they are always the first ship in the fleet to die and then it takes absolutely forever to replace them. I wish they'd flip the entire disengagement chance mechanic on its head, with bigger ships more likely to peace out when they start to take damage, while corvettes die too quick to have a chance to escape. That's basically how it already works late game, though? With a bunch of neutron launchers around, a lot of corvettes dies literally before getting a single disengagement roll. I don't think big ships need a bigger disengagement chance per hit, too.
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Aug 12, 2018 21:59
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So does Distant Stars replace the normal end game event? It seems like getting all 7 L-Gate insights takes forever, and I'm already to the stage where I'm researching the incremental improvements in small stuff.
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Aug 12, 2018 22:59
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Nope, l gates are midgame tier.
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Aug 12, 2018 23:59
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Anyone mind posting screenshots of your crisis time fleet comps? I'm starting a game on higher difficulty and wouldn't mind trying out having a larger variety of ships.
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Aug 13, 2018 03:34
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:the point of destroyers is the escort computer. It is pretty useful for PD. It's not much but its something. That's fair, but even without NSC my pure vette swarm attempts have always ended with having to reinforce at least half of the fleet every engagement, while being scared of sending them at stations and leviathans they massively overpower CP-wise. I'm not, like, arguing that people shouldn't do it, I'm just baffled about why I never seem to get the results other people profess to.
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Aug 13, 2018 07:41
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Does L-gates have anything to do with L-space?
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Aug 13, 2018 09:49
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I haven't played the DLC yet, but If there's not an orangutang-themed Easter egg associated with the gates, I'd be disappointed.
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Aug 13, 2018 10:11
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Slashrat posted:I haven't played the DLC yet, but If there's not an orangutang-themed Easter egg associated with the gates, I'd be disappointed. He already had an Alien homage in Sourcery, so it wouldn't be out of place at all.
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Aug 13, 2018 10:30
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I usually give my destroyers line computers, which keeps them out of range of short range gunship corvettes, even my PD destroyers get line - they are still effective and they last longer.
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Aug 13, 2018 12:55
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THE BAR posted:He already had an Alien homage in Sourcery, so it wouldn't be out of place at all. Wasn't that the Last Hero?
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Aug 13, 2018 13:28
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https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1028997763726548992?s=19 FULLY AUTOMATIC GAY LUXURY SPACE COMMUNISM NOW
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Aug 13, 2018 14:34
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Aethernet posted:https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1028997763726548992?s=19 That's neat, if you run a post scarcity society you can have people gently caress around doing nothing for unity.
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Aug 13, 2018 14:36
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toasterwarrior posted:Wasn't that the Last Hero? Haven't read that one, but it's where the wizards try to burn the library in Sourcery.
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Aug 13, 2018 14:51
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I'd prefer three sliders over discrete settings but I'm accepting that I'm the weird guy here.
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Aug 13, 2018 14:52
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