|
I honestly haven't a clue what the state of Star Wars fandom is nowadays. I tend to presume it's back to prequel era levels where more people dislike it than like it. 
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 21:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 17:10 |
|
|
MarcusSA posted:He does do a few evil force things though. So its not as though it was just a manipulator he did have some skills. Like, for example, Count Dooku is a feudal Lord who looks like Dracula. He supports feudalism because he sees liberalism as 'corrupt'. His goal is recruit enough Jedi to assassinate the Supreme Chancellor of the liberal Republic and take over, 'freeing' its population. Snoke, on the other hand, is a leader of a thing that is not the good guys. He's trying to train knights (of ren) to destroy the abstract concept of hope(?).
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 21:51
|
|
|
I think the sequel trilogy is cool and good, and so are the spinoff films, and I look forward to more of both.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 21:53
|
|
|
Hodgepodge posted:Eh, the complaints about the ST, even SMG's, just sound like the Prequel complaints again, which just sounded like the complaints about Final Fantasy 7 (which was my formative exposure to this sort of thing). Snoke being killed off in part 2 isn’t the problem. The problem is there was no explanation as to how the empire came back to full strength suddenly and where the heck did this guy show up from? Like was he Palpatine boss? Was he some dark lord from another part of the galaxy who saw an opportunity and jumped on it? Is he an ancient evil? Is he some wealthy wannabe emperor that tricked Kylo to the dark side and unleashed a hell he couldn’t control on the galaxy? 2 loving sentences could have solved a lot of these problems nobody was asking for some huge revelation or twist just a pinch of world building to help us understand the conflict like the original trilogy did.
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 22:36
|
|
|
cargohills posted:all Rian Johnson had to do to make a good film was to shoot my awful fanfiction If we're all exposing our power levels, allow me to show you a level beyond Super Saiyan. I wrote what I think people call a Treatment for a putative Star Wars 9. It's about 3700 words long. Read it here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/grc316dcvtilb15/OhGodIveWastedMyLife.rtf?dl=0
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 23:29
|
|
|
i shall click your link, knave, but know that any viruses you give me will only make me stronger
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 23:31
|
|
|
I am technologically illiterate enough to now be worried that's a thing I could inadvertently do 
|
|
#
?
Aug 14, 2018 23:38
|
|
|
Very likely to happen in Episode IX: * Rey goes to Mustafar and finds Obi-Wan's old lightsaber * She also has Luke's green lightsber * She will fuse them together to make a double-bladed lightsaber with one green and one blue blade * Finn will open a hidden panel in the Falcon to discover Chewie's children; he calls the big one "Bitey" * Kylo will visit Naboo where he will meet an elderly Jar Jar, who will lead him to Padme's tomb * Kylo will use the Force to bring Padme back to life to prove he has surpassed his grandfather * Padme will do most of what Leia was originally going to do in the movie * The Galaxy Gun is in it * Right at the end, half the characters disappear because it turns out this movie is contemporaneous with Thanos snapping his fingers * Kylo is defeated by Rey, but disappears when his base explodes; he is last seen in a disguise as a bearded smuggler calling himself "Kylo Katarn" * Poe flies a Sun Crusher * The final scene is Kathleen Kennedy, George Lucas, J.J. Abrams and a CGI version of Ralph McQuarrie sitting round a table discussing how Jakku was Tatooine all along Wheat Loaf fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Aug 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 00:08
|
|
|
Harime Nui posted:I am technologically illiterate enough to now be worried that's a thing I could inadvertently do ok having received your brain virus i will let you know that i liked some of your ideas like luke loving with kylo but not knowing if its really lukes ghost or just kylos dementia, rey training younglings to just do whatever man, and poe attempting to nuke kylo from orbit. i didnt like that the antagonists are ostensibly all the alien races as they are opposed to both of the main character groups and i dont like that you nuke hux. i realize he could be back in act 2 but still, dont nuke my beautiful sniveling boy how do you think theyd portray rey and kylo smashing? maybe they should force smash instead of physically smash. and then they make a new anakin and rey goes to live on tatooine 😬
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 00:24
|
|
|
Jerkface posted:how do you think theyd portray rey and kylo smashing? maybe they should force smash instead of physically smash. and then they make a new anakin and rey goes to live on tatooine. Harime Nui posted:Only satisfying ending is for Rey and Kylo to conceive a new Chosen One the same way Palpatine and Plagueis did, performing a Force Ritual holding each others' shoulders and then headbutting one another screaming "FORCE! FORCE! FORCE! BOOYAH!"
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 00:30
|
|
|
Rey is actually Obi-Wan Kenobi reincarnated into a lady. She's super British and can use the Force to bend people to her will and she, too, enjoys fighting dudes with red lightsabers. She also lived alone for a long time in the desert and had to fight off some alien creature to save a droid. Episode IX will feature her trying to prevent the First Order from blowing up a bridge that she and the Resistance just finished building.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 00:37
|
|
|
And that bridge symbolizes the 21st Century!
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 00:43
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:Very likely to happen in Episode IX: *nods approvingly* I like everything I’m hearing so far
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 01:30
|
|
|
Episode IX will actually reveal that there are no space ghosts. The people that talk with them have actually contracted a form of Space Madness . They were talking to their subconscious the entire time
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 01:35
|
|
|
Wheat Loaf posted:Snoke as a component of Kylo's backstory was something that needed more development than it got and I think that's one thing that confuses me a lot: I've seen a great deal more of "Who was Snoke?" as a complaint than "How did Snoke turn Kylo bad?" and I think the latter is a more interesting and probably a more important question which nonetheless seems to get far less attention in any of these "WHY THE LAST JEDI WAS A CINEMATIC TRAVESTY AND KATHLEEN KENNEDY IS AN SJW WHO SHOULD BE PUT IN FRONT OF A FIRING SQUAD IMMEDIATELY" videos that YouTube keeps recommending me than the former does. Why is Snoke's backstory needed for us to accept that he turned Ben? Like he's just a lovely evil dude and guess what, ultimate power is seductive and corrupts vulnerable people into doing terrible poo poo. Like a confused kid with a lovely dad like Han Solo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 02:04
|
|
|
The Emperors backstory wasn't necessary to get Vader. That said, that performance in Revenge of the Sith, magnificent. Almost made the movie worth it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 02:07
|
|
|
Iain McDiarmid clearly enjoying himself is one of the big highlights of the prequel trilogy for me.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 08:17
|
|
|
remusclaw posted:The Emperors backstory wasn't necessary to get Vader. False: It wasn’t actually revealed that Palpatine created Vader until the end of Episode 3 - the last film in a trilogy about Palpatine’s backstory. Before that, Vader was simply Palpatine’s servant, so no backstory was necessary at that point. (It wasn’t even revealed that Vader used to be a different person until the end of Episode 5. The second film.) As a contrast, we’re told that Snoke created Kylo Ren, and that Kylo Ren used to be Ben Solo, partway into the first film in which both characters appear. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Aug 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 08:27
|
|
|
He created Kylo Ren by convincing Ben Solo that he needed to and could be as powerful as Darth Vader. This is conveyed in the first film before Snoke himself is even mentioned. It's impressive how disappointment in an installment in a media franchise can disable even intelligent, articulate people's critical abilities and render them incapable of seeing, hearing, or speaking coherently about the "evil" which corrupted what they once loved. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Aug 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 09:23
|
|
|
In the OT we clearly see that Vader (and indeed all the Imperials) has his own agenda and as others have said, it was never a plot point just who specifically made him go Sith. Kylo meanwhile is from day one inextricably tied to Snoke, everything he does is done directly under the orders and direction of Snoke. All his motivations are explicitly stated to come from Snoke. For TLJ to kill him isn't "subversive" it's removing what is essentially the only thing driving the plot. It's like blowing up the Death Star and Tarkin in the first fifteen minutes of ANH. Snoke was literally the only thing that made the plot move or indeed even exist. All the First Order characters are solely defined by their devotion to the will of Snoke. The Resistance only exists to oppose Snoke. None of the good guys has a motivation that is not "Stop Snoke". In the OT the Empire was a whole system that needed bringing down. That while the Emperor is important the whole thing had to be smashed, hence the big Space Battle that mirrored the one in the Throne Room. We see its members are in it for themselves and try to screw each other over to increase their power. The PT and RO only further confirm its nature. The First Order on the other hand is practically selfless in its members willingness to sacrifice all for the cause of Snoke. Hux literally doesn't know what to do when he finds he's dead.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 09:29
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:False: It wasn’t actually revealed that Palpatine created Vader until the end of Episode 3 - the last film in a trilogy about Palpatine’s backstory. Before that, Vader was simply Palpatine’s servant, so no backstory was necessary at that point. I still find it so weird that Han, Leia, and Luke all know Snoke was responsible and yet we have no idea who this guy is, when it happened or how they knew.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 09:46
|
|
|
Clearly we need the EU to tell us Kylo's core motivation. Even SMG is crying out for cannon, somehow unable to grasp that Kylo has been convinced by Snoke that he is the successor to Vader and has him terrified that he isn't actually worthy until he pushes him too far and makes him angry instead of scared. No, there must be some deeper answer, a revelation from God in the form of a flashback sequence or ten minutes of straight exposition in which we see Snoke tempt Kylo in some way other than what every scene involving either character has clearly conveyed. It is really dumb to keep mentioning these "Knights of Ren" without actually showing them, though. Right now they exist largely to demonstrate that Kylo and Snoke are not Sith (as defined in the PT) through the mention of Kylo's leadership of a new order of Force worshippers which breaks from the old master/servant rule. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Aug 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 10:05
|
|
|
Actually, it's clear that Kylo thinks he can be Vader and will finish 'what he started' and that Snoke thinks the whole thing is a bit ridiculous but is willing to tolerate it until the beginning of TLJ where he makes it clear that he thinks Ren's Vader fetishism is the act of a stupid child. What even does Kylo hope to finish? What is his understanding of Darth Vader? What is Snoke's understanding of Vader?
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 10:40
|
|
|
Hodgepodge posted:Clearly we need the EU to tell us Kylo's core motivation. Even SMG is crying out for cannon, somehow unable to grasp that Kylo has been convinced by Snoke that he is the successor to Vader and has him terrified that he isn't actually worthy until he pushes him too far and makes him angry instead of scared. Fire up the Story Group Signal!
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 10:47
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Lots of people can do psychic mutant stuff. The question is what they're doing it for. Count Dooku is the hero of the Confederacy and has the last name Lee. I'm getting around to enjoying Lucas' sense of humor.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 10:55
|
|
|
Milkfred E. Moore posted:Actually, it's clear that Kylo thinks he can be Vader and will finish 'what he started' and that Snoke thinks the whole thing is a bit ridiculous but is willing to tolerate it until the beginning of TLJ where he makes it clear that he thinks Ren's Vader fetishism is the act of a stupid child. He browbeats Kylo with his failure to be like Vader. As I said, he uses the idea of Vader to control Kylo: quote:You are no Vader. You are just a child in a mask. Here, Vader is held up as an ideal against which Kylo falls short. This is simply us seeing Snoke nurture Kylo's fear that he will never be worthy of the legacy of Vader which was established in the first film. We've had six films with Vader in them. What he wants to finish is what Vader decides to do in the PT and does until the end of the OT: destroy the Republic and the Jedi which serve it, and replace them with something which creates "order," which is defined against the failure of the Republic and the Jedi to combat injustices such as slavery. The injustices we see Vader commit are from his perspective actually justice for a thousand years of allowing evil to succeed through inaction, or worse, actively creating chaos and suffering in order to protect the interests of the powerful. If you are somehow confused as to who Darth Vader is at this point, you don't need more exposition, you need a doctor. We see Kylo's understanding of Vader in the first film when he appeals to him for a religious vision of the "power of the Dark Side" as he had evidently already experienced, and is rewarded by seeing the firing of Starkiller Base. To Kylo, Vader is God. To Snoke, Vader is, at the very least, a figure which can be used to motivate and control the powerful servant he hopes to create. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Aug 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 10:58
|
|
|
To summarize: Snoke is a lame Palpatine ripoff. Everything about him sucks, right down to his name.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 11:35
|
|
Hodgepodge posted:He browbeats Kylo with his failure to be like Vader. As I said, he uses the idea of Vader to control Kylo: You seem to think Ben Solo and Snoke also watched the prequels.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 12:19
|
|
|
Endlessly seeing the word 'Snoke' is like that scene from Being John Malkovich where Malkovich goes up his own portal. Snoke. Snoke snoke snoke. Snoke snoke. Snoke snoke snoke snoke. SNOOOOOOOOKE! Seeing as he named the Kelvin in Star Trek after a relative, has it turned out that JJ Abrams' uncle's dog was called Snoke yet?
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 14:37
|
|
|
Continuing to ape George Lucas' awful taste when it comes to naming characters is one of the charms of Star Wars and I hope it will continue as long as the series does.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 14:43
|
|
|
Snoke's full name (which is only in the script) is actually Snoke Sleazebaggano and he looks that way because of too many death sticks.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 15:01
|
|
|
Milkfred E. Moore posted:You seem to think Ben Solo and Snoke also watched the prequels. Right; the movies don’t function as standalone films. And even then, taking all 8+ films into account, the understanding of Snoke is like ‘Snoke seems to want... power?’
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 15:49
|
|
|
In the last jedi when snoke force drags hux around on the floor for being useless, he is only there as a hologram, so is this a new thing or has it happened before? I can't remember in the old films does Vader choke someone over the holograms? Maybe he does but that would still be on one of the empire/first orders ships so my theory is that the jedi/sith can work kind of like a mesh network so as long as there is a jedi somewhere or other you can just hologram in and use their physical presence to do jedi stuff. This leads me to believe that snoke, and possibly the emperor before him, installed like lobotomized but alive defeated jedi in the command bridges of all their ships for the purpose of forcing about any commanders that might displease them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 16:31
|
|
|
Vader chokes Admiral Ozzel via tv
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 16:32
|
|
|
NotJustANumber99 posted:In the last jedi when snoke force drags hux around on the floor for being useless, he is only there as a hologram, so is this a new thing or has it happened before? Vader force chokes Admiral Ozzel not through hologram but on a video feed from Executor to Ozzel's Star Destroyer in ESB E:F,B
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 16:33
|
|
|
Sssnnoooaaaakkkkgggghhh
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 18:50
|
|
|
sponges posted:To summarize: Snoke is a lame Palpatine ripoff. Everything about him sucks, right down to his name. I think this is the real problem right here. Snoke is a terrible character who sucked even as a vague concept during the pre-production of TFA. Yet he is in practical terms the only character of true importance in the whole story. The movies are stuck between a rock and a hard place of Snoke being a character who can't be excised from the narrative, but simultaneously makes the movies worse for him existing. Every possible explanation for his backstory or identity would be bad and stupid. Yet the nature of the character means not having a backstory or identity is equally bad and stupid.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 22:49
|
|
|
galagazombie posted:I think this is the real problem right here. Snoke is a terrible character who sucked even as a vague concept during the pre-production of TFA. Yet he is in practical terms the only character of true importance in the whole story. The movies are stuck between a rock and a hard place of Snoke being a character who can't be excised from the narrative, but simultaneously makes the movies worse for him existing. Every possible explanation for his backstory or identity would be bad and stupid. Yet the nature of the character means not having a backstory or identity is equally bad and stupid. I kind of think it was timely to have the guy who was set up to be the Master of All Evil actually be a hapless chump in a bathrobe whose real danger was setting up a chaotic situation.
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 23:16
|
|
|
Rewatching the throne room scene from TLJ, Snoke seems to p. clearly be a hosed-up human not an alien and I think the idea is he got his head split open but keeps himself alive through sheer hate which would actually be a cool idea if the character wasn't just garbage. e: also IMO the 'gold bathrobe' is a callback to the Emperor from Flying Guillotine, who gets to be absolutely hilarious levels of Complete rear end in a top hat basically every time he's onscreen. Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Aug 15, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 23:20
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 17:10 |
|
|
Harime Nui posted:Rewatching the throne room scene from TLJ, Snoke seems to p. clearly be a hosed-up human not an alien and I think the idea is he got his head split open but keeps himself alive through sheer hate which would actually be a cool idea if the character wasn't just garbage. its been done
|
|
#
?
Aug 15, 2018 23:26
|
|
