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Windows 98 posted:gently caress you Andy Dick Some people really like that episode. I hated it because neurotic Andy Dick isn't funny.
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Aug 18, 2018 08:05
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that episode had so many nacelles
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Aug 18, 2018 08:55
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Sash! posted:I assume every human speaks English. Arabic died with Islam and Chinese with World War 3. Everything else major was crushed under the endless onslaught of English's massive technological vocabulary. They do explicitly state the world language of Earth is English in Trek somewhere, I think Enterprise. Not that other ones don't exist but English is the standard human language.
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Aug 18, 2018 09:14
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Grand Fromage posted:They do explicitly state the world language of Earth is English in Trek somewhere, I think Enterprise. Not that other ones don't exist but English is the standard human language. Yeah IIRC Uhura mentions in one episode that she grew up speaking Swahili but English is the Earth standard. Out of curiosity I looked up on Memory Alpha where the various human main characters in Trek are supposed to be from: TOS: Kirk, McCoy, and Sulu are Americans. Chekov is Russian. Scotty is Scottish. Uhura is from "the United States of Africa." TNG: Picard is French, Riker is American, Geordi is Somalian, Crusher is from a Lunar colony. DS9: Sisko is American, Bashir was never specified (the actor said he read the character as British, descended from Indian immigrants). VOY: Everyone's Americans, even B'elanna and Kim. ENT: Archer and Trip are American, Mayweather is from space, Reed is British, Hoshi is Japanese.
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Aug 18, 2018 13:30
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Sperg Alpha has four Enterprise eps where they mention English being the Earth language, apparently.
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Aug 18, 2018 14:31
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gently caress Enterprise
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Aug 18, 2018 14:43
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Cythereal posted:
Jesus Christ Voyager is vanilla to is core Pick posted:gently caress Enterprise Eww, no It doesn't even have a proper engineering hull
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Aug 18, 2018 14:48
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Windows 98 posted:gently caress you Andy Dick Hey! gently caress YOU Andy Dick! 
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Aug 18, 2018 15:02
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Grand Fromage posted:Sperg Alpha has four Enterprise eps where they mention English being the Earth language, apparently. I think it would have been great if they really pushed Arabic contributions to warp 5 travel. Lots of headwraps and scarves, Arabic with subtitles, a line or two about Arabic people being the best at warp calculations etc. Just really throw the post 9/11 watchers for a loop.
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Aug 18, 2018 15:24
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Brawnfire posted:I think it would have been great if they really pushed Arabic contributions to warp 5 travel. Lots of headwraps and scarves, Arabic with subtitles, a line or two about Arabic people being the best at warp calculations etc. Just really throw the post 9/11 watchers for a loop. That’d be some Roddenberry levels of button-pushing.
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Aug 18, 2018 15:30
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Have we ever had an arab character in Trek?
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Aug 18, 2018 15:47
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Have we ever had an arab character in Trek? Nope. B'elanna was our first Hispanic character if you count her.
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Aug 18, 2018 16:00
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Cythereal posted:VOY: Everyone's Americans, even B'elanna and Kim. I'm fairly sure B'Elanna's from a colony world, not Earth. Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Have we ever had an arab character in Trek? Bashir, surely? Ethnicity not specified on-screen, but the actor's Sudanese and his parents were both played by Arabs.
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Aug 18, 2018 16:10
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Have we ever had an arab character in Trek? Bashir has an Arab name which was devised to suit the (Arab British) actor; the original character in the pitch was Hispanic. Cythereal posted:Nope. B'elanna was our first Hispanic character if you count her. First Hispanic main character, but there was at least one Hispanic officer in TOS (Commodore Mendez in The Menagerie, albeit he was played by a white guy). They had been trying to get a Hispanic character in there for a while though: in addition to the proto-Bashir mentioned about, Tasha had her origins in a Hispanic character to be played by Marina Sirtis.
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Aug 18, 2018 16:15
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Cythereal posted:Nope. B'elanna was our first Hispanic character if you count her. Muniz? He gets gibbed in Rocks & Shoals though.
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Aug 18, 2018 16:19
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Have we ever had an arab character in Trek? Dude have you even SEEN Siddig's full name? I wonder if Siddig El Tahir El Fadil El Siddig Abderrahman Mohammed Ahmed Abdel Karim El Mahdi is playing a middle eastern guy 
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Aug 18, 2018 16:21
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I think Bashir is sufficiently ethnically ambiguous that it’s hard to say for sure that he’s an Arab. His first name is Western European, his middle name is Mongolian, and in general he is not given many of the obvious stereotypical signifiers of Arabness that one expects in western media. I would call him an Arab character but show never says so explicitly.
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Aug 18, 2018 17:01
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skasion posted:First Hispanic main character, but there was at least one Hispanic officer in TOS (Commodore Mendez in The Menagerie, albeit he was played by a white guy). They had been trying to get a Hispanic character in there for a while though: in addition to the proto-Bashir mentioned about, Tasha had her origins in a Hispanic character to be played by Marina Sirtis. Star Trek is interesting, because the Hispanic actors play non-Hispanic characters and the Hispanic characters are played by non-Hispanics. With the exception of Roxann Dawson, who's Hispanic playing Torres, who's Hispanic, and Ada Maris, who's Hispanic, playing Captain Hernandez (The captain of the 2nd NX class ship), who's Hispanic, I can't think of anyone else where both the actor and the role are Hispanic. You have Ricardo Montalban (Hispanic) playing Khan (Not Hispanic). You have BarBara Luna (Hispanic), playing Lt. Moreau, the "Captain's woman" in Mirror, Mirror (Not Hispanic). The Next Generation had Ensign Gomez played by Lycia Naff, who might be Hispanic, but I don't think she is. In Voyager, Ricardo Beltran played Chakotay. And in Discovery, Wilson Cruz plays Dr. Culber, who's never identified as Hispanic, at least, and Captain Lorca, is played by English actor Jason Isaacs.
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Aug 18, 2018 17:22
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Pick posted:Dude have you even SEEN Siddig's full name? I had always assumed Bashir was intended to be Indian, honestly. I know Siddig has his ridiculous traditional lineage name, of course.
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Aug 18, 2018 17:43
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Was the lady who spilled coffee on Picard and seemed like she would be a Geordie love interest Hispanic? She was in two episodes I think.
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Aug 18, 2018 17:43
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A.I. Borgland Corp posted:Was the lady who spilled coffee on Picard and seemed like she would be a Geordie love interest Hispanic? She was in two episodes I think. That was Ensign Gomez
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Aug 18, 2018 17:58
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Was she Hispanic? I think she requested a transfer after Geordie asked her out
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Aug 18, 2018 18:02
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:I had always assumed Bashir was intended to be Indian, honestly. Based on his parents, I think this was the intention.
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Aug 18, 2018 18:09
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WampaLord posted:Based on his parents, I think this was the intention. As per the Deep Space 9 Companion, quote:“We wanted Arab-Americans to play both parents,” says director David Livingston. But it proved impossible to find a female Arab-American actor. “That’s because there are none,” points out Alexander Siddig. “Arab actresses are an oxymoron. Most Arabs are Muslim, and Islam frowns upon acting. No one outside of the family may see a woman without a headdress on, or see her cry or laugh. In the Islam world, you won’t see a woman acting, except in a place like Egypt, where the rules are more liberal, and even then there are very strict definitions of what a woman may or may not do. But the woman they found did an amazing job.”
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Aug 18, 2018 18:19
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Truthfully, Star Trek has blown it by not showing "new" nationalities. If you look at the history of Earth in the past few thousand years, nationalities and countries are constantly shifting. True, things might crystalize a bit with modern society and media, but WWIII also pretty much wrecked everything and started a lot of civilization at zero. Having someone be from Iowa or France or follow current ethno-racial categories is about as silly as saying someone is a Visigoth or Hun today. Though I can't think of too much sci-fi that's ever tried to show some sort of human social evolution along those lines--it's all either "we're all still the nationalities and social groups of the 20th century" or "we're all one monoculture now (based on Western 20th Century/21st Century America most of the time).
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Aug 18, 2018 18:46
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B5 was pretty good at a number of people identifying with Mars, and I've heard The Expanse is ok at this as well?
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Aug 18, 2018 18:48
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It’s a really touchy thing to say “in the future xyz nationality isn’t going to exist”. Consequently when it’s done it’s almost always in nationalist art which doesn’t give a gently caress what kind of foreigners it annoys. TNG got a remarkable amount of poo poo for suggesting that Ireland would be reunited as an independent state in the future, and that was in a time that was comparatively fuckless about questions of identity and nationalism — in the west anyhow. Pick posted:B5 was pretty good at a number of people identifying with Mars, and I've heard The Expanse is ok at this as well? The Expanse is all about colonial tensions between Earth, Mars and the asteroid belt, but it doesn’t really focus on individual national identities within those major groupings. As usual for tv sci fi, every planet has a one world government, maybe it has a rival or two, but nobody’s got dozens.
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Aug 18, 2018 18:59
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In The Expanse large parts of Mars were settled by people from India and Texas I believe and so you end up with a brown dude with a southern drawl that listens to hank williams
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Aug 18, 2018 18:59
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Afghanistan and possibly Australia are the only remaining modern countries on Earth in The Expanse. Though it's never clear how much control the UN has over the planet, it's the government but whether that means it directly runs everything or is US style federalism or a looser confederation isn't mentioned anywhere. It's struggling to manage the place, in any case.Tighclops posted:In The Expanse large parts of Mars were settled by people from India and Texas I believe and so you end up with a brown dude with a southern drawl that listens to hank williams The Mariner Valley is Mars Texas, specifically.
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Aug 18, 2018 19:04
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It's a novel, and cultural splits are mainly due to relativism not time alone, but Starfarers by Poul Anderson plays with it a bit too.
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Aug 18, 2018 19:04
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skasion posted:It’s a really touchy thing to say “in the future xyz nationality isn’t going to exist”. Consequently when it’s done it’s almost always in nationalist art which doesn’t give a gently caress what kind of foreigners it annoys. TNG got a remarkable amount of poo poo for suggesting that Ireland would be reunited as an independent state in the future, and that was in a time that was comparatively fuckless about questions of identity and nationalism — in the west anyhow. Yeah, the Ireland episode was so touchy that RTE have never shown it and the BBC didn't air it until 2007.
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Aug 18, 2018 19:05
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The Enderverse shadow books do some fairly interesting things with world governments I mean OSC is a poo poo, but there's a genuine attempt at something
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Aug 18, 2018 19:08
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B5 and The Expanse both do world government pretty interestingly as well. I don’t think there’s anything innately wrong with world government as plot device. It may not be really realistic but neither are warp drives or space battles. It helps to maintain the general underlying metaphor of most space fantasy (planets=nations, ships=ships, space=the sea) and will offend or turn off far fewer people than any more precise predictions of whose nation-state has long for this world and whose does not. (Being that the only people who care at all about world government are busy scanning the skies for black helicopters)
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Aug 18, 2018 19:28
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skasion posted:B5 and The Expanse both do world government pretty interestingly as well. I don’t think there’s anything innately wrong with world government as plot device. It may not be really realistic but neither are warp drives or space battles. It helps to maintain the general underlying metaphor of most space fantasy (planets=nations, ships=ships, space=the sea) and will offend or turn off far fewer people than any more precise predictions of whose nation-state has long for this world and whose does not. (Being that the only people who care at all about world government are busy scanning the skies for black helicopters) There's nothing wrong with it per se, but it would be interesting to break ranks and show something different. BSG actually did this pretty well come to think of it, with the loosely united Colonies who had very different societies making them up, and they were somewhat fracturing along old societal lines as society fell (and also breaking down along new lines based on whatever ship you lived on). Not to mention none of them were our standard Earth 20th century nationalities. Also as much as a lot of people, especially Star Trek fans, want a one world govt and monoculture, the trends of the past century have been the opposite--there are almost 200 countries today, there were about 150 fifty years ago, and 100 years ago there were around 50. As more and more ethnic and cultural identities are allowed to express themselves, we trend towards more diverse free and independent nations. Though Star Trek seems to sidestep this by implying that cultural heritage is subsumed and matters as much as saying you're from Vermont vs New Hampshire. So while there are many heritages celebrated on post scarcity Earth, it's all reduced to GUMBO or VINEYARDS or WEARING AFRICAN/SCOTTISH PATTERENED DRESS UNIFORM ACCESSORIES but everyone is blandly "human" in general. Like root beer...
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Aug 18, 2018 19:49
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In a way that's a matter of perspective, since compared to alien cultures and ways of thinking, humans are, almost by definition, more like each other than we are like the aliens. It's a convenient way of emphasizing our common heritage, relatively speaking; also reflecting how we would (in an ideal world) all pull together as we realize how closely related we are, after we encounter alien life.
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Aug 18, 2018 22:29
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Plus if humanity is given something else to hate, we will gladly oblige.
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Aug 18, 2018 22:45
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Astroman posted:Truthfully, Star Trek has blown it by not showing "new" nationalities. If you look at the history of Earth in the past few thousand years, nationalities and countries are constantly shifting. True, things might crystalize a bit with modern society and media, but WWIII also pretty much wrecked everything and started a lot of civilization at zero. Having someone be from Iowa or France or follow current ethno-racial categories is about as silly as saying someone is a Visigoth or Hun today. Picard kinda unintentionally counts for being the world's most British French man.
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Aug 18, 2018 23:52
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Astroman posted:Truthfully, Star Trek has blown it by not showing "new" nationalities. Some of those lovely forgotten human colonies the Enterprise is constantly tripping over might almost count, if any of them actually survived more than five minutes after the Enterprise left, anyway. Checking in on a couple of those in a post-TNG series could be fun, like maybe the world of clones/space Irish eventually melded into a unique human culture after a few decades. The Maquis had their chance and they blew it.
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Aug 19, 2018 00:29
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The Maquis are the worst and the Dominion did nothing wrong by wiping them out
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Aug 19, 2018 01:24
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FlamingLiberal posted:The Maquis are the worst and the Dominion did nothing wrong by wiping them out Especially not Dukat who is smart and cool
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Aug 19, 2018 02:00
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