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Run a bottle of lucas oil stabalizer through the motor and report back. 
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Aug 9, 2018 08:09
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Are the lifters adjustable? They can get loud if they're way out of spec.
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Aug 9, 2018 13:43
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Update: My lifters are all right! Diagnosis/cause: Being parked is bad. Starting spring 2014, this wagon rolled a measly 1200 miles until I took ownership this summer – and a full 1000 of those miles happened before November 2016. That's the kind of mistreatment which will make valves stick and lifters become stuck, and cause all sorts of horrible clickety, ratchety noises from an engine head. Preeeeetty sure that's going to explain a few of the other issues I'm running into as well, but life has taught me that there's very little that can't be fixed by throwing vast sums of money on it. Cure: A heavy duty oil flush. Seriously, that was it. Granted, it took several gallons of three different types of oil, plus some other fancy fluids, but in the end it got clean. The valve noise is pretty much gone. I also got the cold start valve connector replaced, and drilled out the screws for the bum injectors, so they're all new and working properly. The engine, I'm happy to say, purrs like a kitten at 2000+ RPM now. The bad news is that I'm starting to notice all the other issues so much more. Going to stick the new hoses in this weekend just for good measure, but I think there are gremlins in my gearbox. Or my running gear. We shall see.
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Aug 17, 2018 22:11
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I appreciate this thread and I’m also laughing. I just asked for general guidance in the stupid questions thread and I would (will) totally buy an obscure car as my “well I needed something to work on to learn about cars” project so this thread is like watching myself screw up and break screws and learn things.
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Aug 18, 2018 05:52
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Dr. Kyle Farnsworth posted:I appreciate this thread and I’m also laughing. I just asked for general guidance in the stupid questions thread and I would (will) totally buy an obscure car as my “well I needed something to work on to learn about cars” project so this thread is like watching myself screw up and break screws and learn things. Haha, thanks! Yeah, everyone should do that. My one regret is I didn't start ten years ago, and with a car that's got slightly cheaper parts.
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Aug 19, 2018 13:10
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Alright, tube replacement is go. Whoever said everything rubber and plastic was junk: Spot on analysis! First off: New crankcase breather hose. It's not super clear from this picture, but the old hose is almost a full inch shorter than the new one, while the internal diameter seems to have expanded. I did not know rubber could do this. Oh, and the old hose is just about stiff enough to be used as a blunt weapon.  Next up: Idle air distributor hose. The old one hasn't shrunk as much in length, but you can clearly see how much bigger the holes are. There was exactly zero resistance lifting the big end off of the outlet on the cylinder head cover; with new one it was a pretty snug fit.  Third I did the injector breathing hose on one side. This one wasn't as bad as the previous two, but the rubber had gotten pretty drat hard anyway. The hardest part about the whole job was getting the old end plugs out of this drat hose, since there was no way to pry them out.  I ended up having to use a bolt cutter (regular scissors literally couldn't cut it!) to snip the ends off, and then pushing at the plug from the inside. There are still some hoses left to replace, but at about this point it dawned on me that maybe replacing a whole ton of bits all in one go is a bad idea, in case something breaks and I have to go back and troubleshoot.  This weirded me out, by the way. That new bit of rubber there is, according to its part number, a radiator hose. Specifically, it is – according to the part number – the same radiator hose as the one it's resting on top of. But that just simply cannot be. It's about half the diameter of the old one, and while the length is right, I just can't see that being right in any way. Oh right and according to internet lore, I may need to get a new driveshaft to stick between my transmission and transfer case.
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Aug 19, 2018 15:04
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Right, new month, new money, new fixin'. With the injectors all finally replaced, a brand new OVP relay in place, a good old oil flush over and done with, and new bits of rubber slowly making their way into the engine bay, things are certainly starting to look better. So I'm kicking off the September refurbishments with the complicated, challenging, and – to me, anyway, feel free to laugh – terrifying task of changing the spark plugs. The old ones looks to have run pretty much exactly 30.000 miles, and were last changed seven years ago to the day. So I guess it was time. You can tell this is going to be a breeze. Especially that one on the far left, yeah. (Hint: It was an absolute nightmare and took a friend of mine machining a custom extender for my ratchet in order to get any kind of torque down on that motherf...)  The connectors, new-ish, look good though. Even though I almost broke them, thinking I had to twist them around before pulling them off of the old plugs. I felt all sorts of clever when, after five plugs, I realized that you can in fact just yank them straight off.  And old plug, yay! The box for the new ones indicated I should use a brush around these things, but I didn't have a brush, so I just blasted them with compressed air from a can. I guess it worked.  So you've all seen an old spark plug, and you've all seen a new one. Fine. This is that. However, the bottom one is also exactly how the first two plugs I put in there looked when I put them in there. Couldn't quite figure why the connectors didn't fit, before I took a closer look. When I realized they don't look the same, I figured that metal blob on top of the new plug was missing from the old plug because it must have broken off inside the cable connector. Genius! So after trying to pry said blob out from the connector, I took an even closer look, and realized my error. Anyway, no damage was done, so yeah.  So yeah, I guess the old ones were pretty worn. The spark gaps were enormously varied as well, from less than a half to over one full millimeter. For the new ones, I set all of them to "just wide enough I can force the 0.9 mm feeler gauge inside if I must," so I guess 0.85 mm? Manual says 0.8 is right, but internet lore says 1.12 is better. I have no idea. Moving on!  Since I already had the battery disconnected, I figured I'd have a quick look-see underneath the distributor cap. It, uh, could look better? There's a lot of corrosion and pitting going on on those points around the edge, and the pin in the middle was kinda blackened. I wiped the worst off with a dry paper towel (couldn't find my ubiquitous brake cleaner), but I suspect this cap might fit the "might as well get a new one" category.  The rotor wasn't exactly mint condition either, but it's not... that bad? It got the same dry wipedown treatment, and is still spinning. I think the distributor itself is solid, since the rotor has no lateral wiggle in it, although it does have some rotational slack in it. I don't like that, instinctively, but I don't know if it's actually that bad either. Didn't dare take it off and look underneath that plate there, in case I'd mess up the timing somehow.  So that's my spark plug change, hooray! Bonus image, since I noticed some condensation accumulating inside one of the indicator lights:  The PO evidently skimped on basic repairs. This thing is broken, and he's tried gluing it back together. I'm sort of amazed. Oh well, I duct taped it back together for now, so who am I to judge. Anyway: The engine both sounds and feels drat good compared to when I first bought this truck, but there's still room for improvement. Idling is still soooort of uneven, and starting a cold engine is always four-five seconds of starter running before the engine actually starts firing. There were also a bursts of really impressive white smoke from the exhaust for the first few minutes after I started it up with new plugs, but that went away soon enough. The morning after, I also got some heavy duty valve clicking for 2-3 seconds after the engine started running, but it was just that once, and nothing since. Could be due to anything, I guess. I think next steps now are replacing more rubber to get on top of potential vacuum leaks, and getting hold of a new distributor cap and rotor. I also suspect one valve cover gasket is kinda lovely, due to oil residue on and around parts of it, but not sure if I dare actually opening the engine quite yet. Then there's that axle from transmission to transfer case, and of course the bum radiator. Fun times!
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Sep 7, 2018 23:39
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My thought has been ALWAYS replace the cap and rotor with plugs, but I don’t know the cost on this one.
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Sep 8, 2018 02:47
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Definitely replace that cap, i've been left stranded with a cap that bad before.
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Sep 8, 2018 09:58
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The lifters ticking hard for a few seconds during a cold start before the engine gets oil pressure is because the valve thats supposed to keep the oil up top has worn. My m103 does it as well. It's obviously not super great for the engine but it's not catastrophic or anything either. I wouldn't worry about it, just swap it out whenever you're working in that area of the engine.
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Sep 8, 2018 11:58
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The pin in the middle of the distributor cap is made of carbon, it's supposed to be black (and be careful when cleaning as you can snap it) I don't like the look of your spark plug leads/wires, all the spark plugs with rust/blackened tops obviously didn't have a good connection to the leads/wires.
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Sep 8, 2018 13:05
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Yeah general rule of thumb is wires, cap and rotor all get changed with the plugs.
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Sep 8, 2018 13:57
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Huh. A new rotor and cap is about $250, while a full set of Bosch cables (which I'll get eventually, can't stand the fact that the ones in place now aren't OEM) would be another $700 or so. Sounds expensive to replace all of it? I get the feeling people do once a year, but maybe that's overkill?
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Sep 8, 2018 16:59
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Pursesnatcher posted:I think the distributor itself is solid, since the rotor has no lateral wiggle in it, although it does have some rotational slack in it. I don't like that, instinctively, but I don't know if it's actually that bad either. It shouldn't matter at all, and many distributors do that. As long as the rotor is in contact with the right post when the ignition fires, it doesn't affect the ignition (and that would be a whole lot of slack). At least not if the slack is between the rotor and the distributor shaft. If there is lots of slop is between the distributor shaft and whatever shaft drives it I guess it could cause timing issues (depending on type of ignition, and any sensors that might be in the distributor), but that seems rather unlikely to be the problem. Edit: Pursesnatcher posted:Huh. A new rotor and cap is about $250, while a full set of Bosch cables (which I'll get eventually, can't stand the fact that the ones in place now aren't OEM) would be another $700 or so. Sounds expensive to replace all of it? I get the feeling people do once a year, but maybe that's overkill? What the hell? Are they norwegian hand-made gold-plated parts or something? There has to be a cheaper but still good alternative. The rotor and cap might be pretty Merc-specific, but there is no reason the cables should have to be anything but the right length to work. Also the rotor and cap didn't look too bad from your pics (at least not $250 bad), but if there's rust and crap inside the ignition cable connectors (if they're anything like the old plugs, that is) those deserve replacement. ionn fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Sep 8, 2018 |
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Sep 8, 2018 17:03
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That cap is blasted; you have to replace it. You can probably clean up the rotor (carefully cleaning the outer contact with a light file) but that cap is shot. What blows my mind is that the PO indicated he spent $40K on motor work over the past 7-years, complained of hard start, lovely idle & performance, and no one ever thought to replace the cap, rotor, plugs or wires?? With those symptoms, it should be the first thing done.
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Sep 8, 2018 17:20
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Do you have the Bosch part #? That cap looks to be $70 here in USA
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Sep 8, 2018 17:27
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Pursesnatcher posted:Huh. A new rotor and cap is about $250, while a full set of Bosch cables (which I'll get eventually, can't stand the fact that the ones in place now aren't OEM) would be another $700 or so. Sounds expensive to replace all of it? I get the feeling people do once a year, but maybe that's overkill?
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Sep 8, 2018 17:28
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I'm about to go to the pool but here I am looking up German parts You have the M117 engine. Distributor Cap is P/N: A.000.158.52.02 Look up Bosch 03227 (Mercedes OEM exact same thing for $200 is 0001585202) Rotor is P/N: A.000.158.40.31 Look up Bosch 04177 ((Mercedes OEM exact same thing for about the same price is 0001584031) everdave fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Sep 8, 2018 |
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Sep 8, 2018 17:34
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I mean absolute worst case you buy a set of cut to fit wires and spend an hour saving $600+.
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Sep 8, 2018 17:35
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Pursesnatcher posted:Huh. A new rotor and cap is about $250, while a full set of Bosch cables (which I'll get eventually, can't stand the fact that the ones in place now aren't OEM) would be another $700 or so. Sounds expensive to replace all of it? I get the feeling people do once a year, but maybe that's overkill? I have no idea if the rotor and cap is super special, but leads shouldn't be over $100 even if custom made super squirrel specials. If you want to stick to OEM only, then the best bet is to look for overseas suppliers and eat the freight and taxes (It's what I do with a BMW in Australia). I don't agree with changing cap, rotor and wires every time you change spark plugs though. When running those king of regular plugs I'd change them every 20-30 thou (less frequent if using platinum or paladium or something of course but for standard coppers 20-30 thou), then cap and rotor every 40-60 thou, wires every 100 thou; unless they test or look bad.
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Sep 8, 2018 17:38
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Costs are going to run high for everything OEM (and also yes because  ); I did mention the $3000 radiator and $900 piece of wood trim, right?everdave posted:I'm about to go to the pool but here I am looking up German parts Thank YOU! Actually tracking down the right part numbers for this specific car isn't easy, even though I've got a ton of diagrams I often find myself not knowing where to look. PainterofCrap posted:That cap is blasted; you have to replace it. You can probably clean up the rotor (carefully cleaning the outer contact with a light file) but that cap is shot. First record I have of any of those things being replaced was a single plug wire, back in 2009; along with a damping spring for the hood and a single door handle, that trip to the shop ran the PO some $1200. The money he agreed to spend on this thing... Anyway, after that all the plugs were changed in 2010, and again in 2011 (that time they swapped all spark plug wires too, to the non-OEM harness I've got now). I also noticed one receipt including 8 "plugs" about half a year later, in spring 2012, so I guess he might have changed them again? Or it could be something else, that last receipt was from a major repair order. Car got a new coil in 2013, but no trace of cap or rotor ever being looked at. So yes, fixing those are an absolute high priority. If that doesn't fix the idling/power issue, I'm beginning to run out of options. In and around the engine heads, as well as in the timing department, it's pretty much just the timing chain I can think of that hasn't been changed in the last ten years – and the chain is supposedly fine. I guess timing adjustment could be a thing to try? Fo3 posted:I have no idea if the rotor and cap is super special, but leads shouldn't be over $100 even if custom made super squirrel specials. If you want to stick to OEM only, then the best bet is to look for overseas suppliers and eat the freight and taxes (It's what I do with a BMW in Australia). I've found parts from something called BREMI are way cheaper; a full set of leads are about $100, while a cap is $70. Bosch caps are twice that, though, and their leads are $100 each. While it's very tempting to go off-brand... hang on. Ok, so I just looked at an overseas supplier, and they've got genuine Bosch caps at $58, and rotors at $19. It's stated to be for the 117.963; mine is an 117.965, but... yeah. That's some sound advice that is.
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Sep 9, 2018 00:31
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Just tell us what you need glad to look up whatever
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Sep 9, 2018 00:45
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You've said they ain't facory (or Bosch), but the last things I'd replace on that are the plug wires...you've done the plugs...once you square away the cap & rotor, see how she behaves. If you're still suspicious about the wires: wait for a good & dark night & fire her up; open the hood, and take a good, long, leisurely look at the wires in full darkness; if they're worn or cheap, they'll leak, and you'll see plasma pulsing all over the place, up & down the leads. If you don't: live with them until everything else is done & you're flush with cash.
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Sep 9, 2018 03:45
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PainterofCrap posted:You've said they ain't facory (or Bosch), but the last things I'd replace on that are the plug wires...you've done the plugs...once you square away the cap & rotor, see how she behaves. Best advice right here.
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Sep 9, 2018 14:53
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Yeah my advice of replacing all together is on cars (still genuine Bosch) where it costs maybe $80 total for all that poo poo. If my plug wires were $100 each I'd run them for 10 years too. That seems stupidly expensive though, someone is ripping you off. poo poo, you could convert to a whole different type of ignition for that kind of money.
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Sep 9, 2018 16:05
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Are you buying parts direct from Mercedes' legacy parts division? Because they are insane, they wanted like 50 dollars for the little plastic square that covers the jacking point on my w201. The OEM Bosch ignition stuff is expensive (in regular shops), but not THAT expensive, I think I paid $100 or so for a set of 6 HT leads.
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Sep 9, 2018 18:36
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Yeah no, I'm pretty much only buying things everyone else confirms they are unable to get. Like OEM screws for the injector valve clamps. The prices I'm quoting are from various online parts vendors; I'm going to get a quote from one of my regular shops tomorrow, but I'm not overly optimistic. Also checking out overseas vendors; AutohausAZ does have some nice prices on other things, but they still want $102 for that cap and $25 for the rotor, before freight, customs and taxes. Cheapest I can get the coil-to-distributor cable seems to be $25, the other eight cables seem to be a mashup of Bosch part number 0356912917 and 0356912918. Or... something. Some are selling for £3 on UK Amazon, but don't ship here, while others are $30 a pop. Gah... Guess I need to dive down into those schematics again.
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Sep 9, 2018 21:45
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Pursesnatcher posted:Yeah no, I'm pretty much only buying things everyone else confirms they are unable to get. Like OEM screws for the injector valve clamps. The prices I'm quoting are from various online parts vendors; I'm going to get a quote from one of my regular shops tomorrow, but I'm not overly optimistic. Also checking out overseas vendors; AutohausAZ does have some nice prices on other things, but they still want $102 for that cap and $25 for the rotor, before freight, customs and taxes. $102 is best price I see in USA for that cap. Which is insane. So you probably going to have to do that
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Sep 9, 2018 22:04
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Pursesnatcher posted:Cheapest I can get the coil-to-distributor cable seems to be $25, the other eight cables seem to be a mashup of Bosch part number 0356912917 and 0356912918. Or... something. Some are selling for £3 on UK Amazon, but don't ship here, while others are $30 a pop. Gah... Guess I need to dive down into those schematics again. How would customs treat a personal parcel full of car parts? Could you have someone buy them where it's cheap and ship them?
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Sep 9, 2018 23:13
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Pursesnatcher posted:Yeah no, I'm pretty much only buying things everyone else confirms they are unable to get. Like OEM screws for the injector valve clamps. The prices I'm quoting are from various online parts vendors; I'm going to get a quote from one of my regular shops tomorrow, but I'm not overly optimistic. Also checking out overseas vendors; AutohausAZ does have some nice prices on other things, but they still want $102 for that cap and $25 for the rotor, before freight, customs and taxes. Don't forget ebay. It's generally trash brands but some proper auto parts sellers (especially from the UK) that don't ship overseas from their own POS system will often list things on ebay.co.uk or europe etc and will be willing to ship overseas if bought through ebay. I've got a few things via ebay from UK parts stores that won't sell to australia from their own main business page.
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Sep 10, 2018 10:09
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Hey Pursesnatcher, does that truck have a frame mounted hitch and associated wiring? I looked through the pictures you posted and didn't see a good aft view, or I'm blind. Are there a few holes in the lower dash above the right knee, maybe where someone had a brake controller?
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Sep 10, 2018 17:12
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The only issue with buying anything from abroad is that there's a 25% tax slapped onto anything imported. Getting someone to mail me a shipment, declaring value as zero, works – and is a common enough trick for sub, say, $200 purchases, that customs will let it slide. Above that, they sometimes get angry. Also, doing so means there's no insurance while in transit.madeintaipei posted:Hey Pursesnatcher, does that truck have a frame mounted hitch and associated wiring? I looked through the pictures you posted and didn't see a good aft view, or I'm blind. Are there a few holes in the lower dash above the right knee, maybe where someone had a brake controller? Ummm, maybe? There's certainly a hitch, and I believe it's mounted to the frame. There is a standard 7-pin electrical connector back there as well, which works perfectly. Can't say I've noticed any holes above the driver seat knee, though – only those weird holes around the second shift stick, the "S - N - G" one; pic on page 3. How so? At any rate, I just had a revelation! Well, ish. I've had a feeling something is off re: timing, right? And I mentioned, way back after my early 2198 mile road test, that the car absolutely loved getting itself a taste of 98 RON fuel. Now, it's been a while since I put any of that liquid platinum juice on it, and I was wondering. Timing; advanced vs retarded – if there's anything I've taken away from "Automation, the car company tycoon (but let's be honest we all just design huge-rear end engines and stick trim on top of prefab bodies) game" it's that RON and timing are related. Could it be that my timing has simply, over time, gotten too far advanced, so that it's actually "set" to require higher RON fuel than spec?
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Sep 10, 2018 21:52
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That sounds like cap and rotor and plugs and wires to my dumb working on Chevy 350s to me
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Sep 10, 2018 22:16
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Seriously? That could do that? Everyone I've mentioned the RON thing to (mainly people who, unlike me, are supposed to know what they're doing) have pretty much responded with "well that's weird".
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Sep 10, 2018 22:36
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Generally timing is a closed loop thing. It knocks a little, it pulls timing immediately. I don't think there's any storage or learning involved, especially on older stuff.
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Sep 10, 2018 23:40
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Just want to pipe in to say you’re doing a great thing here. I’ve got a dream to maintain an old Porsche but haven’t had the opportunity to do it yet.
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Sep 11, 2018 04:14
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madeintaipei posted:Hey Pursesnatcher, does that truck have a frame mounted hitch and associated wiring? I looked through the pictures you posted and didn't see a good aft view, or I'm blind. Are there a few holes in the lower dash above the right knee, maybe where someone had a brake controller? I dont think this is the case. Trailers up to 3500kg (7000lbs) which is the heaviest you can tow with a class B vehicle (less than 3500kg gvwr) could not have anything other than shunt brakes until very recently here in Norway. Humbug fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Sep 11, 2018 |
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Sep 11, 2018 08:37
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LloydDobler posted:Generally timing is a closed loop thing. It knocks a little, it pulls timing immediately. I don't think there's any storage or learning involved, especially on older stuff. Depends on if it even has knock sensors. It might not, might just rely on properly setting the base timing.
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Sep 11, 2018 08:55
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IOwnCalculus posted:Depends on if it even has knock sensors. It might not, might just rely on properly setting the base timing. Yep and this is what I'd suggest next if you haven't.
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Sep 11, 2018 14:12
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It probably has a knock sensor and the timing is maybe advanced if it runs better on higher octane fuel. My 1997 ford falcon had a knock sensor with a regular distributor like this merc, if it's like that you can still set the base timing to make a huge difference. Ford australia brought out coil packs in the 95-96 models but went back to a distributor for 97 due to reliability problems - which was great as so much more performance could be gained by advancing the base timing and you really did get better fuel economy and more power by tuning it.
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Sep 11, 2018 14:28
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