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The Phlegmatist posted:e: also, evangelicals for whatever reason like to perform their sexual violence against women instead of children which makes them much harder to compartmentalize. mark "the best way for a woman to win her husband to Christ is on her knees am I right fellas" driscoll burned his entire denomination to the ground because of his behavior but nobody talks about it for some reason.
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Aug 20, 2018 16:01
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Epicurius posted:So to clarify, because I don't want to misinterpret you here, it's a morally worse thing to do to draw a picture of God than to lead a pogrom? A human being is a living icon of the divine, and thus to kill a human being is to assault the divine itself; obviously it is worse to lead a pogrom than it is to depict the father. When I said the latter was "the shame of orthodoxy" I was being a bit hyperbolic in my rhetoric. That said, I would hesitate to characterize the Russian orthodox church as "leading" the pogroms. My reading of Russian history leads me to believe that while the church definitely contributed to a culture in which Jews were viewed with deep, deep suspicion, the pogroms themselves were a mixture of spontaneous mob action or mob action stimulated by state authorities, while cases of pogroms lead by church officials are less common. The Kishinev pogrom is a particularly heinous example, as the broad historical consensus is that that pogrom was led by a bishop following Easter services. Even this, however, is more complicated as it seems, as recent scholarship reveals the important role that the local newspaper played in stirring up antisemitic sentiment. To quote Steven Zipperstein: quote:Accusations of ritual murder in the newspaper Bessarabets remained shrill despite official repudiation; there was word of menacing anti-Jewish meetings held in the back room of a Kishinev tavern; and leaflets calling for the beating of Jews were discovered in bars, cheap restaurants, and flophouses. “Grant a zhid free reign [sic], and he will reign over our Holy Russia, will take things into his own paws,” declared the leaflets. By then Bessarabets had launched a private club, a semisecret society that met regularly, it seems, with its goal being resistance to an imminent Jewish onslaught. You can read Zipperstein's account of the Kishinev pogrom here: https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/257179/anatomy-of-a-pogrom In it, you get the impression that the main force behind the Kishinev pogrom was Pavel Krushevan, the owner of a local newspaper which accused a recent murder as being a product of "blood libel" motivations. Nowhere in that account is the local bishop mentioned, although some local seminary students are named as co-instigators, along with Krushevan's antisemitic cadre. I'll admit that I am biased to believe Zipperstein's account of the prelude to the pogrom, because it lays the blame on worsening relations between Jews and Christians squarely on Krushevan, but his scholarship does seem to be on point. From a review of his book: quote:Until Pavel Krushevan’s arrival in Kishinev, relations between Gentiles and Jews there and in surrounding rural Bessarabia had been better than almost anywhere else in the Russian Empire, this according to the local Jews themselves, Zipperstein reports. Relations began to darken as Krushevan, an extreme anti-Semite and Russian chauvinist, launched Bessarabets, a newspaper relentlessly excoriating Kishinev’s Jews for supposed exploitation of the surrounding peasantry. Still, the Orthodox church should have done more to instill in the citizens of the city that the way of Christ is the way of peace. That some seminarians were involved in the rioting speaks to this failing, and is certainly a greater shame of Orthodoxy than someone painting an icon in a theologically false manner. That said, the Orthodox church today fully refutes antisemitism, and condemns it where it finds it. It excommunicated Matthew Heimbach, and Father Nathaniel Kapner has no official ties to the Orthodox church. Rocor released a statement to clarify that, called on him to cease his antisemitic conspiracy theories, and furthermore they involuntarily retired, censured and stripped of episcopal duties and rights the single Bishop who had in the past supported him. I celebrate all of these actions against antisemitism. It'd be nice if the hierarchy paid a little bit more attention to following the rules of iconography, in my opinion, but of course this is less important than persevering in our condemnation of ethnic hatred, just as improper artwork is less morally wrong than a pogrom.
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Aug 20, 2018 16:31
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if you're catholic, both valid intent and valid form are needed for a sacrament to be a thing. if you're orthodox, keanu reeves and winona ryder might have accidentally got ortho-married during the filming of dracula. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/aug/20/francis-ford-coppola-winona-ryder-keanu-reeves-married-dracula
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Aug 20, 2018 18:46
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pidan fucked around with this message at 10:43 on Dec 19, 2019 |
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Aug 20, 2018 19:07
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I told my priest about that a few years ago, and he said it scandalized him.
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Aug 20, 2018 19:33
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HEY GUNS posted:if you're catholic, both valid intent and valid form are needed for a sacrament to be a thing. Lol that's great.
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Aug 21, 2018 00:13
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CountFosco posted:Still, the Orthodox church should have done more to instill in the citizens of the city that the way of Christ is the way of peace. That some seminarians were involved in the rioting speaks to this failing, and is certainly a greater shame of Orthodoxy than someone painting an icon in a theologically false manner. That said, the Orthodox church today fully refutes antisemitism, and condemns it where it finds it. It excommunicated Matthew Heimbach, and Father Nathaniel Kapner has no official ties to the Orthodox church. Rocor released a statement to clarify that, called on him to cease his antisemitic conspiracy theories, and furthermore they involuntarily retired, censured and stripped of episcopal duties and rights the single Bishop who had in the past supported him. I celebrate all of these actions against antisemitism. It'd be nice if the hierarchy paid a little bit more attention to following the rules of iconography, in my opinion, but of course this is less important than persevering in our condemnation of ethnic hatred, just as improper artwork is less morally wrong than a pogrom. well... I understand why nothing is being done about him (because EP Bartholomew messed up) but it's not a good look.
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Aug 21, 2018 02:40
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Keromaru5 posted:I told my priest about that a few years ago, and he said it scandalized him. What were his thoughts on Gary Oldman's blasphemous declaration of war against God? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39PtSR9wKfg
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Aug 21, 2018 02:53
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I cannot even deal with the level of aggressive American Evangelicalism at my cousin's wedding right now. Choosing Ephesians 5:22-33 as one of the two scripture readings during your wedding ceremony is definitely a statement in 2018. (This is the fairly infamous verse about how wives should submit to their husbands)
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Aug 21, 2018 03:08
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Aug 21, 2018 03:19
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Pellisworth posted:Choosing Ephesians 5:22-33 as one of the two scripture readings during your wedding ceremony is definitely a statement in 2018. What was the other? Gen 3:16? e: although my guess would be love is patient love is kind this verse gets read at weddings all the loving time. The Phlegmatist fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Aug 21, 2018 |
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Aug 21, 2018 03:21
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The Phlegmatist posted:What was the other? Gen 3:16? No, I'll have to check the schedule pamphlet when I get home, it's a longass 8-hour drive. That just stuck in my craw since it was the first of two scriptures read at the ceremony and I was loving pissed. The groom also comes from the flavor of American Evangelicalism where everything must be aggressively about your awesome love for Jesus and how all your friendships and personal relationships are based on your mutual love for Jesus Christ. Hey this is my best friend, he's my groomsman, we bonded over our mutual love for Jesus. He really loves Jesus! That's why we're such great friends! Like, the groom's mother gave a toast at the reception and spoke along the lines of "your duty is not to make your wife happy, it is to be Christ-like in all you do, and that will make her happy." I was simmering mad all night long because the focus of the whole affair was on the groom and relationship with Christ. Oh, the bride? Yeah I guess she'll be happy, she should make babies ASAP that will make everyone super happy.
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Aug 21, 2018 03:43
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Huh. Well. Speaking of Orthodox weddings, that passage from Ephesians happens to be one of the readings at the marriage service. Though there it starts two verses earlier: "Brethren, give thanks always for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God the Father. Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ." (The other reading is the Wedding at Cana.)
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Aug 21, 2018 04:59
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Keromaru5 posted:Huh. Well. Speaking of Orthodox weddings, that passage from Ephesians happens to be one of the readings at the marriage service. I guess from my perspective there is a difference between ancient tradition and a deliberate choice. When you have a wedding ceremony in 2018 and specifically choose those verses from Ephesians, you're making a clear political point about how you perceive marriage. You already had to go and pick terrible tunes to be played on piano and guitar, could you maybe not treat women like property and
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Aug 21, 2018 05:22
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Pellisworth posted:I cannot even deal with the level of aggressive American Evangelicalism at my cousin's wedding right now. Choosing Ephesians 5:22-33 as one of the two scripture readings during your wedding ceremony is definitely a statement in 2018. this is not solely an issue of American Evangelicalism dawggg Pellisworth posted:I guess from my perspective there is a difference between ancient tradition and a deliberate choice. When you have a wedding ceremony in 2018 and specifically choose those verses from Ephesians, you're making a clear political point about how you perceive marriage. with the caveat of "well those catholodoxers have different ideas about things" yeah, agree def 100% quote:You already had to go and pick terrible tunes to be played on piano and guitar, could you maybe not treat women like property and GET OUT!! HOW ARE YOU INSIDE MY HEAD. GET OUT OF MY PERSONAL LIFE HISTORY Lutha Mahtin fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Aug 21, 2018 |
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Aug 21, 2018 06:05
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my dumb rear end opinions aside, we really do, in this thread, perhaps at some point need to talk about the unfortunate and problematic treatment of women during many Christian marriage ceremonies
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Aug 21, 2018 06:08
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galaxy brain: I don't want my wife to obey me, so by not obeying me she really is obeying me
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Aug 21, 2018 06:13
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Pellisworth posted:I cannot even deal with the level of aggressive American Evangelicalism at my cousin's wedding right now. i thought your family were all lutherans
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Aug 21, 2018 12:23
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Pellisworth posted:I guess from my perspective there is a difference between ancient tradition and a deliberate choice. i saw an Old Believer wedding online once with unity sand though lol
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Aug 21, 2018 12:29
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Pellisworth posted:I cannot even deal with the level of aggressive American Evangelicalism at my cousin's wedding right now. I've heard that scripture reading at Evangelical, Anglican, and even a Catholic wedding once. It's been a feature of every Christian wedding I've been to. https://i.imgur.com/LABtukm.mp4 Cythereal fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Aug 21, 2018 |
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Aug 21, 2018 14:02
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Cythereal posted:I've heard that scripture reading at Evangelical, Anglican, and even a Catholic wedding once. It's been a feature of every Christian wedding I've been to. Catholics are given a selection of readings to choose between in the new rite, one of which is a shorter form of the Ephesians reading that very explicitly avoids the trouble verses. Although the long form is considered the most traditional option. e: Eph. 5:21-33 vs Eph. 5:25-32
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Aug 21, 2018 14:26
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Traditional Catholic rite has that passage as the epistle, but I've always heard the priest insist upon the man's part: Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church. And then they point out that Christ literally died on the cross for the Church. Thank you Cythereal for posting good cats.
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Aug 21, 2018 15:07
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Apropos of nothing, let me post here the gorgeous apparel of the judges of the Roman Rota, the Catholic Church's highest appellate tribunal and its second highest ranking court overall (after the Apostolic Signatura, which sadly doesn't have have its own attire)   I also appreciate the judge in the middle going all  when he sees the Pope
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Aug 21, 2018 15:30
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Hey, im praying the Rosary again today while I get my next round of chemo...let me know if anyone has any prayer requests
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Aug 21, 2018 15:32
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Pershing posted:Hey, im praying the Rosary again today while I get my next round of chemo...let me know if anyone has any prayer requests success and prosperity for my partner in his new job my health how you doing emotionally? are you still struggling? it's going to be ok, total strangers on the internet are rooting for you. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Aug 21, 2018 |
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Aug 21, 2018 15:34
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Could I ask you to pray for my attempts to get back into Grad School? I've made the decision to go back and study theology and I find trying to look for schools, sort recommendations, all of it terrifying.
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Aug 21, 2018 15:49
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Night10194 posted:Could I ask you to pray for my attempts to get back into Grad School? I've made the decision to go back and study theology and I find trying to look for schools, sort recommendations, all of it terrifying.
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Aug 21, 2018 16:00
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Worthleast posted:Traditional Catholic rite has that passage as the epistle, but I've always heard the priest insist upon the man's part: Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church. And then they point out that Christ literally died on the cross for the Church. Yeah, the word translated as "submit" has a different connotation in Greek. It doesn't mean meekly give in to whatever the other wants, it means to voluntarily put the needs of the other first. Paul then turns it around and says fundamentally the same thing to the men - put the needs of your wives first. The general usage of the passage is a deliberate misinterpretation of what Paul is trying to say so as to reinforce preconceived gender roles.
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Aug 21, 2018 16:22
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Worthleast posted:Traditional Catholic rite has that passage as the epistle, but I've always heard the priest insist upon the man's part: Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the Church. And then they point out that Christ literally died on the cross for the Church. He also talks a lot about the dangers of greed for a marriage.
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Aug 21, 2018 17:23
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Deteriorata posted:Yeah, the word translated as "submit" has a different connotation in Greek. It doesn't mean meekly give in to whatever the other wants, it means to voluntarily put the needs of the other first. Eph. 5:33 remains a weird one, though.
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Aug 21, 2018 18:30
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Hi thread, I was wondering if it was possible to tell if this came from any denomination in particular or if there's a name for this style of crucifix? 
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Aug 21, 2018 20:42
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an overdue owl posted:Hi thread, I'm just spitballing but that looks very old, almost certainly pre-Reformation. So it's at least Catholic, and might well be pre-Schism. It looks like there are little four-leaf clovers. Perhaps it's Irish or from another Celtic Christian tradition?
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Aug 21, 2018 21:02
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the infinity crucifix
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Aug 21, 2018 21:30
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Pellisworth posted:I'm just spitballing but that looks very old, almost certainly pre-Reformation. So it's at least Catholic, and might well be pre-Schism. I put some more close ups here: https://imgur.com/a/v9UKX8E Ah right, they do look like clovers! I found it at a car boot sale in the North West of England so I'm sure it can't be genuinely old itself but a replica of an actual item that does exist somewhere maybe? Or someone just trying to evoke that general look? I can't really tell what material it's made of, some kind of metal that's all, there's blue felt (I think) on the back. I'm just quite curious about it, thank you for you thoughts!
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Aug 21, 2018 21:52
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an overdue owl posted:Hi thread,  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6RUg-NkjY4 Anyway, it doesn't really add up. The corpus used is Christ the King or Christ the High Priest, which was insanely popular throughout continental Europe from about the late 10th cen. to the Reformation. The trifleur cross was also very popular throughout the Gothic period. But IHS XPS is found on very few crucifixes during that period, since everyone in the west switched to INRI. IHS XPS is found on some older crucifixes but they're mostly Anglo-Saxon and old (older than when Christ the King became popular to put on a crucifix in the west.) And also those little clover stamps kinda look like four-way medals. Which are old but nobody was placing them on crucifixes AFAIK. It's either the greatest art find in the history of the Catholic world or someone's weird high school art project.
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Aug 21, 2018 22:05
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the gems sure look early medieval, what about a region that still had greek influence like benevent
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Aug 21, 2018 22:47
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It's certainly in the style of late 1st millennium stuff, but there's no way it's actually that old. The Victorians had a habit of making new things in old styles, I would be it's a late-19th century creation. It's not a reproduction of anything well-known as far as I can tell.
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Aug 21, 2018 23:05
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 the russian orthodox service for the funeral of a priest is not loving around
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Aug 21, 2018 23:16
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Also this went unnoticed by the thread but the term Mormon is out
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Aug 22, 2018 00:11
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if this is like the time the czechs tried to get the rest of us to call it czechia, it won't stick
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Aug 22, 2018 00:17
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