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Len posted:Married with Children I’m remembering a few instances where his family is literally starving and fighting for food like animals. He’s not bringing home a lot of bacon. Despite the big house.
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Aug 21, 2018 01:51
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Al being a misogynist is a joke, like you’re supposed to laugh at him for being a dumb rear end in a top hat about that, at least
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Aug 21, 2018 01:59
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The Missing Link posted:I’m remembering a few instances where his family is literally starving and fighting for food like animals. He’s not bringing home a lot of bacon. Despite the big house. Despite never having any money or food, they all seem to be in good health and Bud and Kelly always have decent clothes.
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Aug 21, 2018 02:05
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Len posted:Married with Children Worked retail. Can confirm.
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Aug 21, 2018 02:53
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Len posted:Married with Children Yeah that show made it clear that he was incessantly broke and even lampshaded their situation a lot. It was even explained as a literal magic curse at one point. No matter what he would get by but always be in horrible debt. Part of the joke was putting that sort of family in the suburbs in the first place. Al's misogyny was also played as a joke. You really weren't supposed to watch NO MA'AM episodes and think "I should be like that!" Part of the joke was the guys realizing how badly they were getting screwed in life but blaming the wrong thing entirely. Granted another side of the joke was making fun of a caricature of extreme feminism while lampooning people who focus on that exclusively and act like that's every feminist. Honestly I think that was all played pretty well. Everything on both sides were taken to thoroughly ludicrous extremes. The friction between Al and Marcy was the source of a lot of humor as they both took their beliefs to completely ridiculous levels and refused to budge on anything, ever. Of course in the case of Marcy she was extremely successful and ended up with a trophy husband. Who turned out to be childish, narcissistic, and lazy. And Al's best friend. You weren't supposed to endeavor to be Al by any means but really who here hasn't felt like Al at least once? Life just kept kicking him all the time. I think that's why Al has persisted in the public consciousness. We've all been him in one way or another.
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Aug 21, 2018 03:05
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Yeah that show made it clear that he was incessantly broke and even lampshaded their situation a lot. It was even explained as a literal magic curse at one point. No matter what he would get by but always be in horrible debt. Part of the joke was putting that sort of family in the suburbs in the first place. Al's misogyny was also played as a joke. You really weren't supposed to watch NO MA'AM episodes and think "I should be like that!" Part of the joke was the guys realizing how badly they were getting screwed in life but blaming the wrong thing entirely. Granted another side of the joke was making fun of a caricature of extreme feminism while lampooning people who focus on that exclusively and act like that's every feminist. Honestly I think that was all played pretty well. Everything on both sides were taken to thoroughly ludicrous extremes. The friction between Al and Marcy was the source of a lot of humor as they both took their beliefs to completely ridiculous levels and refused to budge on anything, ever. I would never deny my wife a tush rub. 
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Aug 21, 2018 04:32
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The Missing Link posted:I’m remembering a few instances where his family is literally starving and fighting for food like animals. He’s not bringing home a lot of bacon. Despite the big house. the family was fully and cartoonishly dysfunctional, peggy would literally spend all the grocery money on chip & dales dancers/local male strippers while his kids would fleece his wallet whenever he wasn't looking so they could buy whatever vanity/recreational items they wanted at the expense of the essentials i mean it's even a sight gag in the intro ToxicSlurpee posted:You weren't supposed to endeavor to be Al by any means but really who here hasn't felt like Al at least once? Life just kept kicking him all the time. I think that's why Al has persisted in the public consciousness. We've all been him in one way or another. i've posted this before but the show rose to success in an era of tv that was just coming off a massive nostalgia binge for excessively squeaky clean tv programming, shows that were like leave it to beaver from a few decades earlier, and the working title for married with children was literally Not The Cosbys because they wanted to be subversive to this trend of perfect families and the Cosbys were pretty much the platonic ideal of how that style of entertainment was achieving major success at the time al (and pretty much the whole family) was intended to be low brow and awful and not in a good way, the show went to absurd extremes to convey this like al blundering away his son's college scholarship money or peggy stealing her daugher's final project so she could pass her GED but kelly would fail and be held back a year but since married with children did live in this era of absurdly squeaky clean tv families the general public found that they related more to the Bundys and their flaws than anything else that was airing since their problems were chronic and couldn't be solved with a gentle fatherly lecture at the end of a 22 minute episode - that's not to say nobody had any positive traits at all or good moments but that the negatives were definitely presented as negatives and separate from the positives - so the show carved out a niche by being totally different viewers would actually write in to tell the actors how relatable the show was while the media was busy heavily criticizing the show because none of this stuff was okay even back then - there's definitely episodes that have aged poorly nonetheless but the premise wasn't intended to make things like male chauvinism acceptable or okay, but to use things like male chauvinism to depict dysfunctionality e: i'm leaving in the chippendales autocorrect hard counter has a new favorite as of 05:01 on Aug 21, 2018 |
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Aug 21, 2018 04:53
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hard counter posted:the family was fully and cartoonishly dysfunctional, peggy would literally spend all the grocery money on chip & dales dancers/local male strippers while his kids would fleece his wallet whenever he wasn't looking so they could buy whatever vanity/recreational items they wanted at the expense of the essentials The problem with satire is that there's always quite a few shitheads who will happily take it at face value.
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Aug 21, 2018 04:55
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hard counter posted:chip & dales dancers 
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Aug 21, 2018 05:01
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Hal is a funnier poor dad than Al.
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Aug 21, 2018 05:05
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hard counter posted:the family was fully and cartoonishly dysfunctional, peggy would literally spend all the grocery money on chip & dales dancers/local male strippers while his kids would fleece his wallet whenever he wasn't looking so they could buy whatever vanity/recreational items they wanted at the expense of the essentials Yeah, I think that was another reason why the show was so relatable and why it was a welcome reprieve from other TV. The absolutely perfect, idyllic lives from those shows were portrayed as totally normal. It was as if they were saying "well hey if you have a stern but loving father in a single income household with a housewife, 2.5 children, and a picket fence everything will work itself out, life will be perfect, and nothing will ever go wrong. If you aren't that then you are wrong and bad and what is wrong with you?" Nobody's life is perfect so the Bundys looked way more normal. Even if you couldn't quite relate directly to Al you were basically guarantee to know an Al at some point in your life. Which is kind of why Marcy was an interesting character; she was pretty much the polar opposite of the standard housewife while Peg was...Peg. In the case of Marcy it's interesting because she basically became everything she hated. Of course over the run of the show it became apparent that Al was slowly driving her insane. In Al's case his life is like the polar opposite of idyllic. His car sucks, his job sucks, his family sucks, his boss sucks, his neighbor sucks...everything just sucks and I think most peoples' lives are closer to Married with Children than Leave it to Beaver.
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Aug 21, 2018 05:12
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LIVE AMMO ROLEPLAY posted:Hal is a funnier poor dad than Al. Yeah, if you don't think Cranston is literally standing on O'Neill's shoulders...
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Aug 21, 2018 05:13
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Yeah, I think that was another reason why the show was so relatable and why it was a welcome reprieve from other TV. The absolutely perfect, idyllic lives from those shows were portrayed as totally normal. It was as if they were saying "well hey if you have a stern but loving father in a single income household with a housewife, 2.5 children, and a picket fence everything will work itself out, life will be perfect, and nothing will ever go wrong. If you aren't that then you are wrong and bad and what is wrong with you?" Nobody's life is perfect so the Bundys looked way more normal.
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Aug 21, 2018 06:20
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Toshimo posted:Yeah, if you don't think Cranston is literally standing on O'Neill's shoulders... drat right, Malcolm in the Middle doesn't get made without Married With Children having existed. Sure, Hal is funnier, the family issues are more nuanced, and there's the absurdity of Francis' misadventures. It's the second draft, conceived after MWC went off the air, with total perspective on what MWC had done artistically, why, and how. Al. Good ol' Al. He fucks up, and is hosed up in so many different ways, that it was hard to watch the show regularly and not recognize his behavior. All to often in yourself, but over and over in other jackasses you've known. And at the very least, most people could watch that show, get a good laugh, and know that however messed up their family life is, the Bundy's have it much worse. It's a new train wreck every week, and we all watched. Having Christina Applegate didn't hurt ratings any, not in my household. Nor Katy Segal for that matter.
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Aug 21, 2018 06:36
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Al was a buffoon and an idiot and jerk but the show also made sure toshow he loved his family and would never turn his back on them. Now seven was a terrible character
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Aug 21, 2018 06:44
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oldpainless posted:Now seven was a terrible character Why would you even remind me.
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Aug 21, 2018 07:50
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Would Fox have put out The Simpsons if not for the success of Married With Children? I don't know the exact timeline.
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Aug 21, 2018 07:57
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LIVE AMMO ROLEPLAY posted:Would Fox have put out The Simpsons if not for the success of Married With Children? I don't know the exact timeline. MWC came out in '86. Simpsons debuted as shorts on Tracey Ullman in '87 and became its own show in '89. I'd think the influence was minimal.
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Aug 21, 2018 08:04
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Tracey Ullman also hated the shorts. If only she embraced them maybe she would have gotten a producer credit.
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Aug 21, 2018 08:05
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oldpainless posted:Al was a buffoon and an idiot and jerk but the show also made sure toshow he loved his family and would never turn his back on them. More like oldsevenless Yeah, that was one thing that was apparent about the Bundys...as much as they really, really, really didn't get along they really did have each others' backs when the chips were down. Also to the show's credit they realized Seven was a horrid mistake and wrote him out after like four episodes. You have to admit though that Bobcat what the perfect casting for Seven's dipshit dad.
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Aug 21, 2018 08:16
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ToxicSlurpee posted:
Forgive me for stating the obvious: But that was also part of the satire. In your "Leave It To Beaver" worlds, everything is peachy gosh darn keen, but when you meet people who look like that in real life, they are always harbouring deep dark resentments and animosities towards each other. The Bundy's let out all their dirty laundry and animosities openly, but deep down they were a stable family unit that loved and supported each other
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Aug 21, 2018 08:25
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LIVE AMMO ROLEPLAY posted:Would Fox have put out The Simpsons if not for the success of Married With Children? I don't know the exact timeline. i do know that matt groening was influenced by the same era of tv that the creators of mwc were reacting to since his intent was to give the people something different from the mainstream and that the early seasons of the simpsons did also face a lot of same media backlash from supposedly glorifying underachievers and lionizing the slob i think president hw bush even joined in on the fuss by saying something vaguely like 'i want good strong families in our america that are a lot more like the waltons and a lot less like the simpsons' while campaigning whereas barbara bush publicly called the simpsons the dumbest thing she'd ever seen on tv
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Aug 21, 2018 08:46
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Not just in terms of direct influence, I mean maybe Fox was looking to greenlight something similar to their current success and accidently struck gold with an animated show.
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Aug 21, 2018 08:51
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LIVE AMMO ROLEPLAY posted:Not just in terms of direct influence, I mean maybe Fox was looking to greenlight something similar to their current success and accidently struck gold with an animated show. Fox was also a new channel at the time competing with lumbering behemoths. They were more willing to take risks or do something against the grain. Interestingly it worked; they became a major network in no time despite people pooh poohing how low brow their stuff was. It was viewed as inferior shows for inferior people. Now The Simpsons is still going, Married with Children has gone down in history, and Fox News is the horrifying poo poo behemoth we all know and loathe.
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Aug 21, 2018 09:20
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Peg’s baby episode (either when it was announced or when she lost it) was the first show Fox had in the Nielson top 10. Now we take for granted that Fox plays on the same level as other big networks, but most of their lineup sucked back then.
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Aug 21, 2018 11:26
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Absurd Alhazred posted:The problem with satire is that there's always quite a few shitheads who will happily take it at face value. From slightly later, there was the UK show "Men Behaving Badly", which was in the lineage of "Peep Show" with two lazy, idiotic dudes sharing a house and constantly screwing up their lives. Real popular, ran for years. The scriptwriter has spoken of how there's a significant part of the audience that failed to understand it was satire, thought the protagonists were heroes, and would write him with suggested plotlines where the male leads would go out, get horribly drunk and hook up after shaming the female leads. You can't make things obvious enough for some people.
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Aug 21, 2018 11:27
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Krispy Wafer posted:Peg’s baby episode (either when it was announced or when she lost it) was the first show Fox had in the Nielson top 10. Now we take for granted that Fox plays on the same level as other big networks, but most of their lineup sucked back then. look at this ABSOLUTE BUFFOON throwing shade at Duet, Drexell's Class, and The New Adventures of Beans Baxter
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Aug 21, 2018 12:23
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Krispy Wafer posted:Peg’s baby episode (either when it was announced or when she lost it) was the first show Fox had in the Nielson top 10. Now we take for granted that Fox plays on the same level as other big networks, but most of their lineup sucked back then. Marcy was pregnant at the same time. After Katy's loss, they ret-conned the first half of the 6th season by making it all Al's dream. Although Bud's Grandmaster B persona survived. It was fun to watch Al & Peg snipe at each other. Sagal's expressions were fantastic.
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Aug 21, 2018 12:43
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It was odd seeing Bud play a character on a soap operas my wife watches. I can’t say he’s aged badly, but he has definitely aged weirdly. He still looks young, but he’s starting to look like one of those young kids who get the aging diseases.
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Aug 21, 2018 14:05
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nonathlon posted:The scriptwriter has spoken of how there's a significant part of the audience that failed to understand it was satire, thought the protagonists were heroes, and would write him with suggested plotlines where the male leads would go out, get horribly drunk and hook up with each other after shaming the female leads. That's just pointing out the obvious homoerotic subtext.
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Aug 21, 2018 14:13
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BrigadierSensible posted:Forgive me for stating the obvious: But that was also part of the satire. In your "Leave It To Beaver" worlds, everything is peachy gosh darn keen, but when you meet people who look like that in real life, they are always harbouring deep dark resentments and animosities towards each other. Which it winked at when bringing Jerry Mathers for an episode. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFSUAJlVVLo hard counter posted:i think president hw bush even joined in on the fuss by saying something vaguely like 'i want good strong families in our america that are a lot more like the waltons and a lot less like the simpsons' while campaigning whereas barbara bush publicly called the simpsons the dumbest thing she'd ever seen on tv And Dan Quayle poked his nose into Murphy Brown.
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Aug 21, 2018 14:40
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RC and Moon Pie posted:
Could there be more late eighties sentence than this?
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Aug 21, 2018 15:41
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I always appreciated that bud bundy was murdered by his alter ego who then became him
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Aug 21, 2018 15:53
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RC and Moon Pie posted:
Speaking of Murphy Brown, do we think the revival is going to be any good? My mom watched it all the time when I was a kid so I might just be blinded by nostalgia, but I’m cautiously optimistic.
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Aug 21, 2018 16:05
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In an early SVU episode the case is blown when the defense finds out the psychologist left a sticky note about the suspect that says "retarded?"
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Aug 21, 2018 16:48
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RC and Moon Pie posted:Which it winked at when bringing Jerry Mathers for an episode. Bud and Kelly harassing Jerry Mathers the entire episode, only for Mathers to say, "At least my father's not a shoe salesman" as the ultimate burn was awesome. That entire two-parter was great, if for no other reason than the over-the-top gimmicks they threw into the supermarket sweep competition they did.
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Aug 21, 2018 16:50
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Fish of hemp posted:Could there be more late eighties sentence than this? Murphy Brown is probably the ultimate example of a show that was hugely popular, ran for a very long time on television (10 seasons), enjoyed tremendous critical acclaim, won lots of awards (Candice Bergen's five Emmys) and is now largely forgotten except for the spat with the vice-president (which came when the show was already halfway through its run, so it wasn't like Bush complaining about the Simpsons when it was the dangerous new kid on the block).
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Aug 21, 2018 16:57
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Gaunab posted:In an early SVU episode the case is blown when the defense finds out the psychologist left a sticky note about the suspect that says "retarded?" I would like to know more.
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Aug 21, 2018 16:59
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Wheat Loaf posted:Murphy Brown is probably the ultimate example of a show that was hugely popular, ran for a very long time on television (10 seasons), enjoyed tremendous critical acclaim, won lots of awards (Candice Bergen's five Emmys) and is now largely forgotten except for the spat with the vice-president (which came when the show was already halfway through its run, so it wasn't like Bush complaining about the Simpsons when it was the dangerous new kid on the block). Nation's Weirdest Teenager Buys Season One DVD Of 'Murphy Brown'
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Aug 21, 2018 17:04
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Did Murphy Brown have a kickass lead-in show to explain its success and longevity? Like how Simon & Simon survived in large part because of Magnum P.I. Trying to Google that is worthless because all I get are news stories about both Magnum P.I. and Murphy Brown’s 2018-2019 lineup.
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Aug 21, 2018 17:48
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