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Autonomous Monster posted:e: Regardless of whether you think Stellaris is a masterpiece or a warcrime, though, I think we should all be able to agree that this cult of personality around Wiz is weird and gross and needs to stop. 
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Aug 22, 2018 15:53
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Autonomous Monster posted:Oh, and Koramei: honestly? Stellaris is probably better than 90% of games. It's definitely better than 99% of space 4Xs, but I'm not certain there's ever been a good space 4X. It is definitely not better than SotS1, but I will accept that as the left over 1%
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Aug 22, 2018 16:26
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Autonomous Monster posted:e: Regardless of whether you think Stellaris is a masterpiece or a warcrime, though, I think we should all be able to agree that this cult of personality around Wiz is weird and gross and needs to stop. Where were all those amazing, humble, overlooked devs during the development of stellaris? doing what the lead told them to do, making tiles and horrible systems that took 2 years to replace. What was the main change that turned the direction of the game around? A new game director. Given that companies are hierarchies and hierarchies are not democracies, and that in a hierarchy major decisions are made by other people, it seems odd to have to constantly pretend that Wiz didn't start the new direction or that his design philosophy had a major impact on the design choices that people now prefer. And I find it very odd how real adults seem to use gross for "Something I don't like but I really don't feel like articulating or substantiating" when it used to be like a kid word heard in school. Wiz is credited with changing the direction of Stellaris, and that seems really reasonable to credit to the lead of a game.
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Aug 22, 2018 16:28
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wiz didn't do it by himself obviously, but he is actually no poo poo really good at game design, and particularly at designing innovative systems within the relatively limiting confines of a pre-existing game. eu3+, ck2+, stellaris 2.0 - it's not creepy, weird, or wrong to say that all of those revamps took the base game and greatly improved it!
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Aug 22, 2018 18:18
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Kaza42 posted:It is definitely not better than SotS1, but I will accept that as the left over 1% SOTS 1 was great I am real sad they never made a sequel.
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Aug 22, 2018 18:23
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Prav posted:i don't play stellaris because everything i've seen tells me it was and is a terrible game. this means that i generally don't have much to add in the stellaris discussions, but makes looking at these "no joe, it's not a great game, it's the GREATEST game - nuh uh bob, i think it's just very very good" exchanges a somewhat odd experience What I think I am trying to say is that the game was bad and a lot of people hated it, but then 2.0 happened and a lot of those opinions, including mine, changed.
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Aug 22, 2018 18:34
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Autonomous Monster posted:e: Regardless of whether you think Stellaris is a masterpiece or a warcrime, though, I think we should all be able to agree that this cult of personality around Wiz is weird and gross and needs to stop. Double
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Aug 22, 2018 19:00
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Jazerus posted:wiz didn't do it by himself obviously, but he is actually no poo poo really good at game design, and particularly at designing innovative systems within the relatively limiting confines of a pre-existing game. eu3+, ck2+, stellaris 2.0 - it's not creepy, weird, or wrong to say that all of those revamps took the base game and greatly improved it! No but it is creepy weird and wrong to make stories up about how Wiz got hired and constantly saying he should fix games that aren't even released yet.
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Aug 22, 2018 19:53
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Yeah, I think Wiz deserves a lot of credit for Stellaris but people take it way too far. The attitude that's been creeping up as though he's the only competent game designer at Paradox is extremely rude.
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Aug 22, 2018 20:05
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wiz is my favorite paradox game, and i'm looking forward to the upcoming release of wiz
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Aug 22, 2018 20:22
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I just attribute the Wiz love to him A.) being a forums poster here for a long time, who B.) made mods for many paradox games that were sane and really well done and also C.) did things like the Crete LP while also D.) always seeming to be a guy who keeps his cool and is just really chill. I mean I guess you could count that last paragraph as wanking him off but thats why I think so many people slavishly praise him more than other Paradox people who post here and/or are Paradox game designers.
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Aug 22, 2018 20:26
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Koramei posted:Yeah, I think Wiz deserves a lot of credit for Stellaris but people take it way too far. The attitude that's been creeping up as though he's the only competent game designer at Paradox is extremely rude. I think a lot of people view Wiz as a member of the "next generation" of Paradox designers, and sortof a bridge between Old Paradox and New Paradox. That he turned EU4 into a great game with Art of War definitely contributes to that reputation. And at least here on Something Awful his reputation stems from the fact that he was sort of born out of this community. It was his mega-LP's (and work on WizMod for CK2) that got him on PDS's map. As much as I've loved Paradox games since I was introduced to them back in like 2003 (and as much as I love Johan's work), I dunno why but I get a very obvious feeling whenever I read Imperator: Rome dev diaries that the game has been heavily influenced by him. Imperator: Rome feels like Old Paradox in ways that I just can't really explain, and I don't think it's a good thing. I don't get that at all when I look at how other project leads handle their franchises (Wiz with Stellaris, podcat with HOI4, DDRJake with EU4). Apologies to whoever is currently in charge of CK2 for forgetting who you are off the top of my head... Groogy's still on EU4 and Archangel's on HOI4 right? Drone fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Aug 22, 2018 |
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Aug 22, 2018 20:29
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In addition to being a long time poster on these forums Wiz is also the very public face of the Stellaris development team,with a great deal of news and other info going through him, so when you think of the game you likely think of him as well. Other members seem to be much more quiet, if they even post at all, so they aren't as well known. Even other teams don't seem to be nearly as active when discussing the games they are responsible for.
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Aug 22, 2018 20:37
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personally i don't care for wiz's design style, which i think tends to railroad people into playing the way he thinks things ought to be
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Aug 22, 2018 20:37
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Does anyone have a copy of 'the paradox cycle.jpeg' from the old thread? Because we've come bloody long way.
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Aug 22, 2018 20:44
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Alchenar posted:Does anyone have a copy of 'the paradox cycle.jpeg' from the old thread? 
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Aug 22, 2018 20:47
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How old is that chart? There's no stage where fans piss and moan about how greedy the studio is every time an expansion is announced or released.
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Aug 22, 2018 20:56
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How the gently caress is it "creepy" and "gross" to think Wiz is a good developer and designer? Is gross just the new stupid buzzword to replace toxic now?
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Aug 22, 2018 21:33
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everyone itt is dumb as poo poo even by games standards
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Aug 22, 2018 21:36
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Agean90 posted:everyone itt is dumb as poo poo even by games standards Yeah
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Aug 22, 2018 21:38
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Psychotic Weasel posted:How old is that chart? There's no stage where fans piss and moan about how greedy the studio is every time an expansion is announced or released.
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Aug 22, 2018 21:41
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Yeah I'm pretty sure there's one that covers the week one of praise and adultation before people spot the design flaws and crippling bugs and fall into bargaining, despair and finally acceptance.
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Aug 22, 2018 21:45
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GrossMurpel posted:How the gently caress is it "creepy" and "gross" to think Wiz is a good developer and designer? Is gross just the new stupid buzzword to replace toxic now? Imagine thinking toxic is a meaningless buzzword. Take the chud poo poo outta here. Changing the subject to something less heated, anyone remember when the CEO shaved his head because Victoria 2 was going to be profitable? 
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Aug 22, 2018 21:49
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I like Wiz and I like Johan and I like the games they've worked on. Those Paradox folks do a pretty good job, differences aside. Does anyone else follow the Life At Paradox instagram account? It's fairly new (I think? I'm as bad at Insta as I am at forums posting) and their shtick is each week they hand the account off to a different person at PDS/PDI who just posts about their life as an employee at Paradox. It's pretty rad. This week Shams has it and has been posting from Gamescom.
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Aug 22, 2018 22:22
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I've always preferred Jake tbh, but only because he's more open about his support for the DDR. Kaiser Johan is working his way up the ranks and Groogy is the most likeable of the bunch
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Aug 22, 2018 22:59
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The Wiz cult of personality won't be truly out of hand until this thread is nothing but people demanding that Paradox resurrect Dawntide.
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Aug 22, 2018 23:27
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Deceitful Penguin posted:I've always preferred Jake tbh, but only because he's more open about his support for the DDR lol
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Aug 22, 2018 23:38
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Agean90 posted:everyone itt is dumb as poo poo even by games standards
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Aug 22, 2018 23:46
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Prav posted:i don't play stellaris because everything i've seen tells me it was and is a terrible game. this means that i generally don't have much to add in the stellaris discussions, but makes looking at these "no joe, it's not a great game, it's the GREATEST game - nuh uh bob, i think it's just very very good" exchanges a somewhat odd experience I really loved it when it came out, but all the changes made have been in the opposite direction from what I wanted so I have played it in more than a year and may never play it again.
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Aug 23, 2018 07:33
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Here I thought the Paradox Doom Cycle was DLC is announced better wait for that before starting a game-> DLC is out but there are critical bugs-> Wait for the bugs to get patched-> DLC is announced....
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Aug 23, 2018 09:23
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TOOT BOOT posted:Here I thought the Paradox Doom Cycle was This is me.
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Aug 23, 2018 17:03
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AtomikKrab posted:This is me. This is also me, but replace "announced" with "game design document is made available for other employees"
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Aug 23, 2018 18:20
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What are the major good gameplay mods for vicky 2? Getting bored of the base game and want to switch it up.
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Aug 24, 2018 00:46
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PDM (Pop Demand Mod) is a real big one, downside is the economy is COMPLETELY broken (even moreso than in Vanilla), but it's still fun. There's also HPM/HFM which are a more enhanced vanilla experience than PDM's total overhaul. Finally, Divergences of Darkness is a popular alt-history mod based off of PDM.
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Aug 24, 2018 01:14
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Crazycryodude posted:PDM (Pop Demand Mod) is a real big one, downside is the economy is COMPLETELY broken (even moreso than in Vanilla), but it's still fun. There's also HPM/HFM which are a more enhanced vanilla experience than PDM's total overhaul. Finally, Divergences of Darkness is a popular alt-history mod based off of PDM. If Divergences economy weren't broken it would be far and away the best mod.
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Aug 24, 2018 01:16
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iirc New Nations Mod takes the fun stuff from PDM and strips out the broken parts.
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Aug 24, 2018 03:43
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Anyone here try Blood and Iron? I was googling for NNM and a Reddit thread said it was the new NNM.
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Aug 24, 2018 03:49
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Concert of Europe is a fun one that starts earlier in 1820. When it isn't crashing at least.
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Aug 24, 2018 04:53
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speaking of v2 mods, is there some way to scale the UI up? it's basically unplayable in 4k
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Aug 24, 2018 12:52
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Drone posted:I think a lot of people view Wiz as a member of the "next generation" of Paradox designers, and sortof a bridge between Old Paradox and New Paradox. That he turned EU4 into a great game with Art of War definitely contributes to that reputation. And at least here on Something Awful his reputation stems from the fact that he was sort of born out of this community. It was his mega-LP's (and work on WizMod for CK2) that got him on PDS's map It is kind of funny that he gets credit for Art of War, considering it was mostly my design, and he was a great PL for it. Common Sense was my design, while he did most of Cossacks and El Dorado. Mandate and forward is basically Jake, with some support from me first, and then lots from Groogy. Also on Stellaris, grekulf has been the designer for a long time now, giving lots of support to Wiz.
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Aug 24, 2018 14:26
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