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Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!
I think he means more along the line of Bourdain not giving a gently caress about what people thought of him. Which indeed was a carefully crafted part of his persona.

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DrVenkman
Dec 28, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

I think he means more along the line of Bourdain not giving a gently caress about what people thought of him. Which indeed was a carefully crafted part of his persona.

Yeah pretty much. If he thought that he was part of a shakedown, it seems hard to believe he would just fold because of 'bad publicity'

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM
Sorry for the TMZ link, but https://www.tmz.com/2018/08/22/asia-argento-17-year-old-boy-in-bed-photo-sex-texts/

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang




So who is supposed to have leaked this? Those messages read very intentional.

DrVenkman
Dec 28, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Krankenstyle posted:

So who is supposed to have leaked this? Those messages read very intentional.

Clearly Argento will know, but it's just identified as a 'friend'.

Christ, what a mess. Argento, I guess, all but says she was raped but also poses for a post-coital photo with him as well. In the texts she seems to jump around that issue after the friend asks about it and says the picture is no big deal. So I guess either the NYT story is all true and it went down the way they say it did, or the kid really did jump Argento and then extorted her for money later on.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



I'm saying it reads to me like a fake/controlled leak to get another narrative out there.

DrVenkman
Dec 28, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Krankenstyle posted:

I'm saying it reads to me like a fake/controlled leak to get another narrative out there.

By Argento's camp? Possibly. But if that was the case I would think that they'd hit their narrative harder. This just reads too muddled.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours

DrVenkman posted:

Clearly Argento will know, but it's just identified as a 'friend'.

Christ, what a mess. Argento, I guess, all but says she was raped but also poses for a post-coital photo with him as well. In the texts she seems to jump around that issue after the friend asks about it and says the picture is no big deal. So I guess either the NYT story is all true and it went down the way they say it did, or the kid really did jump Argento and then extorted her for money later on.

It really does seem like oppo meant to muddle a bunch of stuff together and go "see! you can't trust these so called victims!"

Phi230
Feb 2, 2016

by Fluffdaddy
This whole story is no good

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012

somehow that last av was even worse than your posting

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

It really does seem like oppo meant to muddle a bunch of stuff together and go "see! you can't trust these so called victims!"

jesus. not at all ideal

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours

Phi230 posted:

This whole story is no good

No, it isn't, but the way it's framed is really suspicious.

Zogo
Jul 29, 2003

Melissa Schuman Accused Backstreet Boy Nick Carter of Rape. And Then ‘the Vultures Came Out.’
https://www.thedailybeast.com/melissa-schuman-accused-backstreet-boy-nick-carter-of-rape-and-then-the-vultures-came-out

Les Moonves' contract reveals nearly $200 million at stake if he leaves CBS
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbs-les-moonves-contract-reveals-nearly-200-million-at-stake-if-he-leaves/

Tinder Founders Seek Billions Against Parent Company, Allege Sexual Harassment Cover-Up
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/breaking-tinder-founders-seek-billions-against-parent-company-allege-sexual-harassment-cover-up/

Scott Baio took 5 polygraph tests to refute Nicole Eggert's claims of sexual assault
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/scott-baio-took-5-polygraph-tests-refute-nicole-eggerts-claims-sexual-assault-204845880.html

DrVenkman
Dec 28, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

I know polygraph tests aren't admitted in a court of law, but you have to be pretty sure of yourself to pass 5 of them. Also, as that story mentions, Nicole Eggart tweeted some utter bullshit about Baio's dead kid, claiming the rare disease that killed the baby was 'nonexistant'. It looks like she backtracked when people pointed out how hosed up that was.

Slutitution
Jun 26, 2018

by Nyc_Tattoo

Holy loving poo poo, is this why Bourdain killed himself?

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours

Slutitution posted:

Holy loving poo poo, is this why Bourdain killed himself?

Yes.

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


DrVenkman posted:

I know polygraph tests aren't admitted in a court of law, but you have to be pretty sure of yourself to pass 5 of them. Also, as that story mentions, Nicole Eggart tweeted some utter bullshit about Baio's dead kid, claiming the rare disease that killed the baby was 'nonexistant'. It looks like she backtracked when people pointed out how hosed up that was.

polygraphs are about as good as chance.

Alan_Shore
Dec 2, 2004

It's so weird. Imagine a story comes out where a 17 year old girl claims a 33 year old male celebrity, who played her father, gave her booze then raped her. Then they pose together naked in bed for photos. He then pays her to keep quiet. Would the response really be "hmm, this is a muddled story. I wonder what's going on? Very suspicious" or would it be "gently caress that monster, I hope he dies?"

DrVenkman
Dec 28, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.

Alan_Shore posted:

It's so weird. Imagine a story comes out where a 17 year old girl claims a 33 year old male celebrity, who played her father, gave her booze then raped her. Then they pose together naked in bed for photos. He then pays her to keep quiet. Would the response really be "hmm, this is a muddled story. I wonder what's going on? Very suspicious" or would it be "gently caress that monster, I hope he dies?"

Well, I mean you know the answer to that, add also the calls from others for a kind of temperence in any condemnation of Argento. If it was a man no doubt Rose McGowan and others would be talking about it incessantly.

I get it in part though. Argento was a figurehead in that movement. She dragged Cannes through the mud and made headlines and now anyone who supported her has to answer for her. When McGowan is being asked about this, she's not really being asked about Argento, she's being asked about #metoo as a whole. It's a lovely position to be in.

peer
Jan 17, 2004

this is not what I wanted

Alan_Shore posted:

It's so weird. Imagine a story comes out where a 17 year old girl claims a 33 year old male celebrity, who played her father, gave her booze then raped her. Then they pose together naked in bed for photos. He then pays her to keep quiet. Would the response really be "hmm, this is a muddled story. I wonder what's going on? Very suspicious" or would it be "gently caress that monster, I hope he dies?"

I think most people are (or at least should be) less concerned with how this affects Argento personally and more concerned with how it will be, and already has been, used to discredit the movement as a whole, including by Weinstein himself.

If the allegations are true (which they certainly appear to be), gently caress Argento and also gently caress anyone who points to this as evidence #metoo is tainted or illegitimate or hypocritical

NovemberMike
Dec 28, 2008

peer posted:

I think most people are (or at least should be) less concerned with how this affects Argento personally and more concerned with how it will be, and already has been, used to discredit the movement as a whole, including by Weinstein himself.

If the allegations are true (which they certainly appear to be), gently caress Argento and also gently caress anyone who points to this as evidence #metoo is tainted or illegitimate or hypocritical

It's still really lovely to be telling a victim that they're politically inconvenient.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




It also doesn't help the huge issue where (imo, anyway) men have it much harder coming forward with stories like this b/c nobody takes it seriously and assumes they must have just been a horny teen who enjoyed it.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Yeah. All teens of all genders fantasize about banging some mature person once in a while; a hot teacher or whoever. Turns out it's not that fun when it happens irl, but still there's a huge discrepancy in how the cases are judged popularly.

Legally, it gets more muddled, but I'm almost tempted to say that there's a higher conviction rate for female molesters than male, while still the popular opinion is "hell yea bagged a milf" vs "fuckin gross rapist creep". I mean, it often seems that male rapists are covered for or get a slap on the wrist, while female rapists get the proper sentencing. Might be confirmation bias on my part, though.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe
I'd also probably feel different about the situation if they didn't have a prior working relationship when the kid was like 12 years old. A 17 year old randomly meeting a 33 year old and hooking up isn't necessarily going to be a huge traumatic event(not that it couldn't be but I wouldn't automatically assume either way). But when you've known a person as a child and had a hand in their development into adulthood, even for as short a time as a film shoot, it's unbelievably hosed up to then get involved with them sexually.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



Not even 12, he was like 6 years old when they worked together, and the whole her playing his mom and there were a bunch of tweets/instagrams of them calling each other mom/son which makes it double gross.

But yeah a one night stand with a lady in her 30s that you just met when youre in your late teens wouldnt be too bad I don't think. Not the same, but in my early 20s I hooked up with some :cool:

Carthag Tuek fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Aug 24, 2018

NovemberMike
Dec 28, 2008

Basebf555 posted:

I'd also probably feel different about the situation if they didn't have a prior working relationship when the kid was like 12 years old. A 17 year old randomly meeting a 33 year old and hooking up isn't necessarily going to be a huge traumatic event(not that it couldn't be but I wouldn't automatically assume either way).
Can we not do the pedophile with a thesis defense? A 33 year old getting it on with a 17 year old is still hosed up.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

NovemberMike posted:

Can we not do the pedophile with a thesis defense? A 33 year old getting it on with a 17 year old is still hosed up.

I'm just being honest, if a 33 year old person hooks up with a 17 year old, I'd want to know more before making a judgment on what the consequences should be. Knowing the full context of the Argento thing, it's incredibly hosed up on a whole other level than some other scenarios I've witnessed with people of similar ages.

NovemberMike
Dec 28, 2008

Can you just make your point without putting a disclaimer about how much you don't care about middle aged adults having sex with kids?

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

NovemberMike posted:

Can you just make your point without putting a disclaimer about how much you don't care about middle aged adults having sex with kids?

The point being discussed is the different ways these situations are perceived based on gender, i.e. that Argento is a good looking woman hooking up with a guy so there will be those people who will automatically assume it's not a big deal.

I'm pointing out that the age thing is also maybe a reason why people are erroneously jumping to the conclusion that it wasn't that bad, because just simply looking at the age difference doesn't even come close to telling the whole story. Like, Argento probably should face criminal charges.

Edit: My guess is you're not really looking to engage in an honest discussion and will continue to lob insults so I'll drop it.

Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Aug 24, 2018

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




tbh I agree w/r/t 'It isn't always horrible if a teenager has sex with an adult' but the context really, really matters. And the context here is super hosed.

Also just b/c I think it's not immediately wrong/unhealthy for a teen to have sex with an adult doesn't mean I think the adult isn't a creep for doing it, fwiw. I just come from a community where unfortunately relationships are often had between teens and adults and it's seen as pretty loving normal-- but I think that's changing a lot now that it's way more okay to be openly gay and we don't have to skulk about, or say in small towns where you may be the only gay person other than a small handful of people older than you and they end up being your only friends in the community/relationship partners/etc.

Like it's entirely possible for a teenager to have sex w/ an adult and be fine moving forward (though it's rare a teen will come out of even a 'normal' relationship with an adult without having some kind of weird thoughts about what sex and relationships are supposed to be, consciously or subconsciously). But that isn't this situation at all. The point is Argento used him and used her prior relationship as a mentor/mother figure against him and that's loving gross and Basebf555 seems to be 100% on board with this being hosed up so I don't see a reason to be insulting him lmao

Gender and age and even orientation play a huge role in whether or not some people would look at a situation like this w/o the context of the prior relationship and have a hard time seeing it as sexual misconduct.

Zogo
Jul 29, 2003

Former head of CDC arrested on sex abuse charges
https://nypost.com/2018/08/24/former-head-of-cdc-arrested-for-groping-woman/

Thomas Ravenel announces he's quitting 'Southern Charm' in wake of sexual assault allegations and breakup rumors
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment...-114924879.html

Matt Lauer agrees to multimillion-dollar divorce settlement: Report
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/matt-lauer-agrees-multimillion-dollar-152710975.html

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012

somehow that last av was even worse than your posting
I'm just posting this with regards some of the last few posts.

Where I am, the uk, 30 somethings or hell 60 somethings can have sex with 17 year olds legally. Or 16 year olds. And I don't consider the UK to be a weird backward medieval place where sex with minors is a huge problem compared to the US.

By the way when I googled that (uk age of consent) to make sure I was still current, google gave me a picture of jimmy saville as the attached image! wtf!

Thing is, 30 or 60 somethings meeting kids, which is what 16 and 17 year olds are doesn't happen too much without there being other people, family, about to put the kibosh on that. Where it does, schools, or any situation where its a work environment where the balance of power is inappropriate then there are position of trust offences that cover that. I would say a 36 year old actress sleeping with a 17 year old kid she has worked with since the age of 12 or less even would be considered the same as a teacher in the uk. And go to prison.

Its happened to teachers of both genders here.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.
Didn't your newspapers have to be forced to stop putting pics of topless underage girls on page three and still run countdowns for female celebrities reaching the age of consent and also there's pedophile rings goddamn everywhere probably reaching to the highest levels of government

Harime Nui
Apr 15, 2008

The New Insincerity
Isn't it a weird feature of UK fishwraps that conservative ones like The Daily Mail include all the trashy celeb beach pics and stuff while left-of-center ones like The Guardian are all stodgy and respectable and poo poo

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012

somehow that last av was even worse than your posting
No to the first one, they weren't forced to stop they just did it a bit differently. Also no to the second one, there are not pedophile rings everywhere, only in the highest reaches of government.

btw I do consider the uk to be a weird backward medieval hellhole but not for these particular reasons.

NotJustANumber99 fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Aug 25, 2018

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




Also yeah AoC is lower in Canada as well (or at least is in BC, and it was digustingly low for a while in my lifetime but thankfully they bumped it the gently caress up at some point) so that may also be effecting my stance on the general idea of 17yos having sex with adults.

Still tho I can't help but think how skeazy/desperate someone's got to be to go after a teenager, even if they are legal. Like you can't find anyone your own age who will put up with you?

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane
I think one thing that shouldn't be forgotten with Argento, whether the allegations are true or not, is that regardless of whatever she did, she is still a victim. She may also be an offender, but whether she is or not is completely irrelevant to whether she was, herself, victimized.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




PT6A posted:

I think one thing that shouldn't be forgotten with Argento, whether the allegations are true or not, is that regardless of whatever she did, she is still a victim. She may also be an offender, but whether she is or not is completely irrelevant to whether she was, herself, victimized.

:emptyquote:

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012

somehow that last av was even worse than your posting
Sure. And also that rose macgowen can be a dickhead hypocrite, and whatever others can be all natures of whatever horrible criminals and still have been victims deserving of justice and also notice.

Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



NotJustANumber99 posted:

No to the first one, they weren't forced to stop they just did it a bit differently. Also no to the second one, there are not pedophile rings everywhere, only in the highest reaches of government.

btw I do consider the uk to be a weird backward medieval hellhole but not for these particular reasons.

yeh, id assume running a secret pedophile ring requires considerable resources.

but capitalism is ubiquitous. the uk is only the most recent reveal. shitlords everywhere do what they want and the richer they are, the more easily they get away with it

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Carthag Tuek
Oct 15, 2005

Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
slægt skal følge slægters gang



btw also the Q conspiracy idiots are literally idiots

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