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I'm only going to buy the DLC if a character I really want to play is locked behind it. And Talim, Cervantes (probs) and Ivy are all baseline, so that seems really unlikely.
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Aug 28, 2018 16:36
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i'm buying SCVI and the season pass and there's nothing you can do
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Aug 28, 2018 16:37
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People always say that but sc6 looks fast as gently caress. Im already shook from learning Tekken.
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Aug 28, 2018 16:40
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people are like 6 or 7 years late on being concerned about fg dlc practices. corporate bootlickers already hand-waved away complaints about day 1 dlc and other bad practices in fg dlc and won the battle what seems like forever ago
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Aug 28, 2018 16:41
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day 1 dlc doesnt really offend me... chrono trigger was what 60 dollars in the 90s? Acceptable game prices to charge havent really scaled with inflation and day 1 dlc is like just releasing an 80 dollar game instead of a 60 dollar one. It's not really a predatory business model imo, I don't know how it got that rep. It's so much better than loot boxes that I cant really be bothered. i dont have sympathy for a company with money making deadlines too tight tho. No Wave fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Aug 28, 2018 |
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Aug 28, 2018 16:42
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poe meater posted:People always say that but sc6 looks fast as gently caress. Im already shook from learning Tekken. The basic mechanics are simpler and you can't get wombo combo'd in the air like in Tekken. If an opponent is throwing something at you that looks unfamiliar you can activate Reversal Edge and play an RPS minigame to break out of it.
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Aug 28, 2018 16:43
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mango sentinel posted:Don't buy the titty fighter I'm gonna wear my Fatal Cutie hat with pride
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Aug 28, 2018 16:50
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Hyper Inferno posted:Are there any good youtube channels with match videos for UNIST I can watch? GAMEacho has some, but are there any other good channels? The GAMEacho channel has mostly casual matches while the zero3japan channel has their tournament match footage.
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Aug 28, 2018 16:52
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No Wave posted:day 1 dlc doesnt really offend me... chrono trigger was what 60 dollars in the 90s? Acceptable game prices to charge havent really scaled with inflation and day 1 dlc is like just releasing an 80 dollar game instead of a 60 dollar one. It's not really a predatory business model imo, I don't know how it got that rep. It's so much better than loot boxes that I cant really be bothered. Weirdly, it and other Squaresoft RPGs were $80 I believe, at least I remember paying that for my SNES copy way back when. I'm still mildly annoyed by day 1 dlc in fighting games. I wish they'd at least put the first character out a few weeks from launch.
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Aug 28, 2018 16:53
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Elvis_Maximus posted:Weirdly, it and other Squaresoft RPGs were $80 I believe, at least I remember paying that for my SNES copy way back when. And even then they had nothing on Phantasy Star IV that launched at 100 goddamn dollars in 1995 (1993 in Japan). Veib fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Aug 28, 2018 |
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Aug 28, 2018 16:56
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the difference in making day 1 dlc characters is that if you want to be competitive you simply have to buy the season pass. its not like dlc in other games where you can check it out later on discount if you enjoyed the game and want more, its just 20 to 40 dollars extra, up front, 100% of the time. for a game you may not even stick with. its lovely for FGs, but again, a battle long lost.
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Aug 28, 2018 17:10
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Elvis_Maximus posted:Weirdly, it and other Squaresoft RPGs were $80 I believe, at least I remember paying that for my SNES copy way back when. SF2 Turbo was also about $80 on the SNES, which is almost $130 in 2018 money. That said, those games were on very expensive cartridges. Blu-Rays can be cranked out by the thousands at negligible cost to any decent publisher. Development costs have ballooned exponentially since then, but things are definitely tipped in the consumer's favor these days even with Season Passes and Day One DLC and whatever. Things are better in 2018 than they were in 1993, but don't feel obligated to buy anything you aren't comfortable supporting. In Training posted:the difference in making day 1 dlc characters is that if you want to be competitive you simply have to buy the season pass. its not like dlc in other games where you can check it out later on discount if you enjoyed the game and want more, its just 20 to 40 dollars extra, up front, 100% of the time. for a game you may not even stick with. its lovely for FGs, but again, a battle long lost. I wish all characters were selectable in Training Mode regardless of DLC, but that's some socialist utopia bullshit that we'll probably never see.
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Aug 28, 2018 17:12
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the thing I hate about season passes is that a) even after the game bombas to $10 on black Friday the pass still costs the full $20 b) I can't sell the pass after I'm done with the game and I pawn off the disc
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Aug 28, 2018 17:15
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oh I'd assumed you wouldnt be matched against characters you dont own (because I'm retarded). yeah that part degrades the play experience for people who don't buy it so is very worth criticizing, I'm new to FGs so i didnt understand that was the big issue.
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Aug 28, 2018 17:18
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In Training posted:the difference in making day 1 dlc characters is that if you want to be competitive you simply have to buy the season pass. its not like dlc in other games where you can check it out later on discount if you enjoyed the game and want more, its just 20 to 40 dollars extra, up front, 100% of the time. for a game you may not even stick with. its lovely for FGs, but again, a battle long lost. Yeah dlc beats the old model of like full price revisions coming out every year for casual scrubs like me but if you really want to get good it sucks rear end and you gotta buy a ton of sight unseen poo poo for 30 bucks every year just to do your matchup homework.
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Aug 28, 2018 17:19
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I still have no idea how to fight eliza because I didnt buy that dlc
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Aug 28, 2018 17:21
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One other problem with DLC fighters is that feature creep usually seeps into their design and now you have a character who hard counters a whole bunch of peeps from the original roster with more complexity to their moveset and none of their drawbacks.
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Aug 28, 2018 17:25
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Game prices haven't inflated but neither have wages lol
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Aug 28, 2018 17:33
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No Wave posted:day 1 dlc doesnt really offend me... chrono trigger was what 60 dollars in the 90s? Acceptable game prices to charge havent really scaled with inflation and day 1 dlc is like just releasing an 80 dollar game instead of a 60 dollar one. It's not really a predatory business model imo, I don't know how it got that rep. i dont wanna get all 2011 in this thread but fg dlc is pretty disgusting for fighting games because of how fighting games are designed i dont know about if the business model is predatory or something like that but what I can tell you is that paid dlc that impacts balance in a fighting game is abhorrent. fighting games a really neat genre, this was especially true back in 2010 and prior when everyone playing had access to the same game. it meant that every player had an equal opportunity at winning. in a fighting game, your ability to make decisions and choices is lower than the other person if they have more characters than you. picking your character impacts matchups and strategy, and before recent times, everyone playing a fighting game started off on equal ground. picking your character is usually the first decision you make in a fighting game match. a player with more choices available means they have an advantage. some people have a hard time understanding why the availability of characters is a balance issue. i'm not very good at explaining, but most fighting games have a way their game flows. typically the goal is to limit the other players options while expanding the options that you have. an example is putting a fireball on someone they have to block as they get up. another example is purchasing the dlc and immediately having more options than a poor player. fighting games used to be asymmetric 1-on-1 competitive games where the asymmetry comes from character picks and not from amount of disposable income. a big part of why this is so offensive in fighting games has to do with history too. unlike other games at the time, when fgs and arcades were huge, the fg genre was very accessible. all you needed was 1 quarter and you could compete. you didnt need a 1000 dollar computer and internet connection to play. after fighters started moving away from the arcade model, rules that had previously existed for the genre started to slowly fade away. fighting games before had tried to be "arcade perfect" and tournaments would try to use the arcade as a standard, not allowing things like console only characters. even button macros were banned in some communities. a common thread ran through most rules regarding whats tourney legal: everyone was supposed to be playing the same game. how would it be fair to the arcade player who only has 25 cents and can't get a console to have to play against console characters they didn't have access to? oh then sfxt came out, and had dlc gems as part of its mission statement. but seth killian told everyone it was going to be OK and that it wasnt that bad, so everyone listened to him. there were some people that thought this was a really bad idea at first, but seth and co really took to the streets to change hearts and minds in a community-centric PR campaign before and during release and it actually worked. when the on-disc dlc kerfuffle happened with that game later on capcom wouldnt do anything to salvage it. after this for whatever reason people kept buying games that used a dlc model after basically boycotting sfxt2013. as far as other annoying and practical things for fighters, you can no longer practice against other characters than the base without paying a higher price in most fighting games. if you want to know how to punish tiras xyz whatever you'll need to pay for it first day 1 dlc is in line with business practices for other game genres. but fighting games are their own genre and basically the only one that is a one-on-one competitive genre with this kind of business practice. i can't buy access to extra zerglings with money in star craft or extra I bricks in tetris Zand fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Aug 28, 2018 |
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Aug 28, 2018 17:34
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Zand posted:i dont wanna get all 2011 in this thread but fg dlc is pretty disgusting for fighting games because of how fighting games are designed
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Aug 28, 2018 17:37
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yeah i mean overwatch had it right - base game includes all non-cosmetic game updates free of charge (maps and new characters) but cosmetic stuff is in loot boxes and have no impact on the game.
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Aug 28, 2018 17:38
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Actually you should get access to comestic options too when you drop 60$ for the game imo
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Aug 28, 2018 17:42
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Hell they used to let me get player made ones
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Aug 28, 2018 17:43
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there's no incentive for a new fg to drop season passes cause the rest of the fighting game makers oligopoly are content to continue including them in new games and the niche enfranchised players will continue buying them anyways cause they have to
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Aug 28, 2018 17:48
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I don't have a pro-dlc argument, there really isnt one. But one of the other reasons you see more DLC instead of expansions is that the expansions split the playerbase for online matchmaking (not a valid argument for day 1 dlc of course, which is just an attempt to charge more money to the players who care) Online matchmaking actually makes you ask how to release new content you can charge for without making the game worse. Making a sequel can split the playerbase which was less relevant pre-online but online population is extremely relevant to FGs now. Maybe there's just no good model for making money to add more things to a popular game unless you're dota 2. (before anyone praises overwatch they're into loot boxes which is an even worse model for entirely diferent reasons) No Wave fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Aug 28, 2018 |
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Aug 28, 2018 18:03
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Fruitsnacks posted:You might already know this but a-cho has another Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/zero3japan I did not know they were the same arcade, that's awesome. Thanks!
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Aug 28, 2018 18:04
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i think fg dlc practices are not universally hated because there is a false dichotomy between dlc characters and version update releases like SF2:WW, SF2:CE, SF2:HF, SSF2, SSF2T. these got a bad rap even back then because they would come out one year after the other and require a full new purchase. most players that werent super in to fgs couldnt tell some of these releases apart outside of character count. a similar sentiment was echoed in complaints about reused sprites (like morrigan sprite in mvc2, or any vs series game really). capcom had to fight tiny pr battles throughout sf4s release and there were people that got very tired of purchasing new editions of sf4 by the time usf4 came out. i think people tend to look at a season based/buy dlc characters piecemeal type business model as standing opposite from full releases like guilty gear xrd sign -> revelator -> rev2 but they are really very similar in terms of how much you have to put down money-wise. if you had purchased SF5 on launch and purchased all 3 season passes on their release at 30 dollars each plus the base game at release at $60, you've already sunk $150 into playing sfv. this is in line with if not higher priced than purchasing full new releases. i'm not saying here that full new releases are better because the total cost is less - there is an ease of access to playing the base game in a game thats continually updated with individual character buys like sfv. but picking between these 2 models is just picking your poison. there are other options for the fighting game model and especially when a lot of games use 3d characters, dlc costumes, stages, music, etc, that dont gently caress with balance can be monetized and make a lot of money.
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Aug 28, 2018 18:06
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dlc characters are fine if they come with a free update that everyone else gets and there's no new versions of the game. that way everyone who made an initial purchase can still play XX Ultra Turbo. season passes are dumb. dlc characters 2 weeks after launch are dumb. preorder dlc is dumb. character dlc should be, in essence, an expansion you can buy pieces of.
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Aug 28, 2018 18:28
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I am generally OK with dlc characters if they support further patches/development of the game. it's easy for publishers to get scummy with how they implement/price dlc characters, though
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Aug 28, 2018 18:49
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Loot boxes are gambling for kids. OW is still bad.
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Aug 28, 2018 18:58
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Zand posted:Good Yeah this is the real problem. I hate the fact that if I actually want to practice against a character I'm required to buy the Season Pass as well. The benefits of not having to rebuy a full game is nice, but I'd really rather they just do a yearly $20 upgrade when all the characters are out rather than require me to buy the characters individually or prepay up front. I've been burned a ton of times on preorders, but I can't practice against the characters as they come out without buying the season pass or each individually.
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Aug 28, 2018 19:06
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If you're against dlc in fighting games join the cult of UNIST, which not only doesn't have any DLC characters it doesn't even have DLC cosmetics (in the PC version)
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Aug 28, 2018 19:43
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anime was right posted:dlc characters are fine if they come with a free update that everyone else gets and there's no new versions of the game. that way everyone who made an initial purchase can still play XX Ultra Turbo. season passes are dumb. dlc characters 2 weeks after launch are dumb. preorder dlc is dumb. character dlc should be, in essence, an expansion you can buy pieces of.  I kinda feel like SFV suffered from releasing characters piecemeal instead of bundling them up because they missed out on the big boosts in popularity that content updates usually bring. (it also suffered from being a bad game)
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Aug 28, 2018 19:45
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fighting games need to take a page out of Overwatch's book by making characters/stages free and all the fancy dressup poo poo at the premium pricing. SFV charging for loving stages is the most egregious poo poo ever.
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Aug 28, 2018 19:53
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DLC Inc posted:fighting games need to take a page out of Overwatch's book by making characters/stages free and all the fancy dressup poo poo at the premium pricing. SFV charging for loving stages is the most egregious poo poo ever. lootboxes are worse than character dlc even if they're cosmetic imo
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Aug 28, 2018 19:54
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Why do stages matter for being free? That's almost the literal definition of cosmetic.
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Aug 28, 2018 19:58
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a system of unlocking ugly skins for characters in fgs through gameplay would be ok, it would trick skin-loving scrubs into playing more and accidentally improving their mechanics
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Aug 28, 2018 19:59
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How much would this quarter-based arcade-only player of the days of yore end up spending if they wanted to put in enough time with a game to be competitive
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Aug 28, 2018 19:59
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I got blade strangers and messed around with it a bit. It’s super ugly but it seems to play all right. what’s up with umihara kawase, from screenshots I thought those games were all about swinging around and stuff, but she has a super where she just pins down the opponent and stabs them like 50 times with a knife? shovel knight doesn’t have a lot of interesting moves and looks super weird, isaac is hideous, giant cat girl has command grabs and seems cool, curly and quote seem all right, I forget who else is in it
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Aug 28, 2018 20:00
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she's a sushi chef so i think the idea is she's gutting you like a fish? it's probably also a reference to some anime thing i don't know.
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