Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

JebanyPedal posted:

I recently smashed down way too much money on one of the new LG OLED TVs (Jesus loving Christ it's good) and now I'm wondering if there's any reason I should get a dedicated 4K player as just buying an Xbox One X and using that as my player as well as for gaming.

Just get the Xbox. You'll be happy.

JebanyPedal posted:

Also what is the single best film currently available in 4K and HDR that would demonstrate the capabilities of a bomb new TV?

Hard to say since a lot of the big blockbusters with a lot of pop are upscaled from 2K finishes. The Last Jedi is a rare native 4k effects movie, but it has a pretty muted look (till the rad red room fight)
I'd say make sure you get an old beautiful shot-on-film movie with minimal effects so you can experience a for-sure native presentation. Coppola's Dracula is my favourite disk so far. It has crazy effects, but they're all in-camera.
I'm sure Crouching Tiger is amazing, but it won't run on my XBox :(

There used to be a site that had a list of what was or wasn't native 4K, but it's been down for a while.

Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 14:04 on Aug 31, 2018

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Lil Swamp Booger Baby
Aug 1, 1981

Teenage Fansub posted:

Just get the Xbox. You'll be happy.


Hard to say since a lot of the big blockbusters with a lot of pop are upscaled from 2K finishes. The Last Jedi is a rare native 4k effects movie, but it has a pretty muted look (till the rad red room fight)
I'd say make sure you get an old beautiful shot-on-film movie with minimal effects so you can experience a for-sure native presentation. Copolla's Dracula is my favourite disk so far. It has crazy effects, but they're all in-camera.
I'm sure Crouching Tiger is amazing, but it won't run on my XBox :(

There used to be a site that had a list of what was or wasn't native 4K, but it's been down for a while.

Bram Stoker's Dracula is one of my favorite films so that's a perfect recommendation.
Any idea if Mad Max: Fury Road is upscaled or not?

Monday_
Feb 18, 2006

Worked-up silent dork without sex ability seeks oblivion and demise.
The Great Twist
Out of the ones I have, I'd say the best looking are The Revenant, Blade Runner 2049 and Annihilation.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe
The Men in Black Trilogy and the Mission Impossible movies recently got 4k releases and they're great. I've only seen a few of the MI discs so far but Ghost Protocol and Rogue Nation look amazing in 4k.

Men in Black is a big upgrade too, very noticeable. Native 4k and the HDR makes those suits look crisper than ever before.

The Fifth Element is another 4k release that's a pretty significant jump in quality form previous releases.

Egbert Souse
Nov 6, 2008

Arrow is doing an early DePalma set with The Wedding Party, Hi Mom!, and Greetings.

FancyMike
May 7, 2007

Django and Crimson Peak too.
https://twitter.com/ArrowFilmsVideo/status/1035530496325894145

Spatulater bro!
Aug 19, 2003

Punch! Punch! Punch!

God I love the sort of stuff Arrow chooses to release.

Spatulater bro!
Aug 19, 2003

Punch! Punch! Punch!

Speaking of 4K, I have a question that's been bugging me. Can someone explain the whole upscaling of 2K thing to me? Like, why is it done instead of scanning the film at 4K? Is it due to technical limitations or budgetary ones? And when we say upscale, is it a similar to the upscaling done by TVs?

Lizard Combatant
Sep 29, 2010

I have some notes.

Spatulater bro! posted:

Speaking of 4K, I have a question that's been bugging me. Can someone explain the whole upscaling of 2K thing to me? Like, why is it done instead of scanning the film at 4K? Is it due to technical limitations or budgetary ones? And when we say upscale, is it a similar to the upscaling done by TVs?

Many films are/were finished at 2k with things like visual effects elements rendered at 2k, etc... So unless they want to rerender, recomposite, recolour everything at 4k an upscale is the easiest way.

Spatulater bro!
Aug 19, 2003

Punch! Punch! Punch!

Lizard Combatant posted:

Many films are/were finished at 2k with things like visual effects elements rendered at 2k, etc... So unless they want to rerender, recomposite, recolour everything at 4k an upscale is the easiest way.

Now this has me wondering, if most SFX shots are 2K, why don't they look lovely on really big theater screens?

Lizard Combatant
Sep 29, 2010

I have some notes.

Spatulater bro! posted:

Now this has me wondering, if most SFX shots are 2K, why don't they look lovely on really big theater screens?

Some do, if you were to go back and re-watch on a big screen. But the good ones sit nicely because they're the same res as the rest of the film, everything gets mastered at the same resolution. The quality of the compositing, things like lighting and texture makes more difference than resolution.

Plus projectors are way more forgiving for enlarging than screens. 2k is pretty drat good, a 1080p bluray will look nice, poo poo even standard def will look good if projected properly.

MacheteZombie
Feb 4, 2007

Holy poo poo Hi, Mom! is on there!!

E: lol I missed egberts post right above the pic

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

Spatulater bro! posted:

Now this has me wondering, if most SFX shots are 2K, why don't they look lovely on really big theater screens?

2k really is fine for theatre presentation, it's what we're used to for the most part. That's why scans from original camera negatives look so great, if you actually went to a theatre and saw the movie at the time of release you weren't getting an image of that quality.

Sir Kodiak
May 14, 2007


Also, keep in mind that not all 2K formats are the same. A DCI 2K file for theatrical projection could be ten times the size of the eventual Blu-ray, and that can store additional detail even if the number of pixels is about the same.

Sir Kodiak fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Sep 1, 2018

Lizard Combatant
Sep 29, 2010

I have some notes.

Sir Kodiak posted:

Also, keep in mind that not all 2K formats are the same. A DCI 2K file for theatrical projection could be ten times the size of the eventual Blu-ray, and that can store additional detail without compression even if the number of pixels is about the same.

True.

Honestly a projector just adds a level of movie magic in of itself. Even watching a rough cut with 1080 dnx proxy media in a cinema makes you see a film you've watched a hundred times feel different.

Cemetry Gator
Apr 3, 2007

Do you find something comical about my appearance when I'm driving my automobile?

JebanyPedal posted:

I recently smashed down way too much money on one of the new LG OLED TVs (Jesus loving Christ it's good) and now I'm wondering if there's any reason I should get a dedicated 4K player as just buying an Xbox One X and using that as my player as well as for gaming.

I hear all kinds of conflicting things about proper HDR and Dolby Vision support on different players and it's all kind of gibberish to me.

Also what is the single best film currently available in 4K and HDR that would demonstrate the capabilities of a bomb new TV?

So yeah, let's talk 4k.

In terms of resolution, it's not going to make a huge deal of difference, since you're getting past the point of diminishing returns... Unless you watch TV really closely, or you have a super huge screen.

Now HDR - you're probably wondering about Dolby Vision and regular HDR and all that goes into it. So HDR is the base high dynamic range standard.

So that HDR signal is a core part of the Dolby Vision signal, but they add metadata onto that so there's automatic changes to contrast and all that based on the scene.

Basically, Dolby Vision is cool and all, but for now, going with just plain HDR should be fine.

And nobody's mentioned Pacific Rim? The colors on that film were eye popping. It just looked so vibrant and bright.

Or you could be like me and use Arrival to show off HDR! The muted color scheme never looked so muted!

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe
The Black Panther UHD with Dolby Vision is a pretty good way of seeing the difference because Infinity War didn't have Dolby Vision and the costumes on the Wakandan characters are noticeably toned town without the extra umph from Dolby Vision.

The nighttime car chase where Black Panther is jumping from car to car is a great reference quality scene to show off the capabilities of UHD.

Casimir Radon
Aug 2, 2008


JebanyPedal posted:

Also what is the single best film currently available in 4K and HDR that would demonstrate the capabilities of a bomb new TV?
Dunkirk is the best looking movie I currently have on UHD.

Five Cent Deposit
Jun 5, 2005

Sestero did not write The Disaster Artist, it's not true! It's bullshit! He did not write it!
*throws water bottle*
He did nahhhhht.

Oh hi, Greg.

Lizard Combatant posted:

Some do, if you were to go back and re-watch on a big screen. But the good ones sit nicely because they're the same res as the rest of the film, everything gets mastered at the same resolution. The quality of the compositing, things like lighting and texture makes more difference than resolution.

Plus projectors are way more forgiving for enlarging than screens. 2k is pretty drat good, a 1080p bluray will look nice, poo poo even standard def will look good if projected properly.

An uncompressed standard def transfer from film can fool many people into thinking they are watching an actual 35mm print if the projector and intermediate hardware are both top notch. I’ve done it - screened features that way, I mean - and had people ask me if they were watching film. Industry pros, even.

Five Cent Deposit
Jun 5, 2005

Sestero did not write The Disaster Artist, it's not true! It's bullshit! He did not write it!
*throws water bottle*
He did nahhhhht.

Oh hi, Greg.

Basebf555 posted:

2k really is fine for theatre presentation, it's what we're used to for the most part. That's why scans from original camera negatives look so great, if you actually went to a theatre and saw the movie at the time of release you weren't getting an image of that quality.

This is absolutely true, and something I have harped on many times in the past. I’m glad to see all these replies.

CPL593H
Oct 28, 2009

I know what you did last summer, and frankly I am displeased.
My understanding of these things was always that 4K in a home video context is just a marketing gimmick because you'd need a screen measured in feet and not inches to actually see the difference between that and 1080p.

david_a
Apr 24, 2010




Megamarm
For people that have gotten used to HDR (if that’s even possible yet), do normal Blu-rays look noticeably worse to you now?

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008



CPL593H posted:

My understanding of these things was always that 4K in a home video context is just a marketing gimmick because you'd need a screen measured in feet and not inches to actually see the difference between that and 1080p.

It depends on how close the screen is, too.

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

It's harder with films because of the natural anti-aliasing life, lenses and grain provide, but I think the difference between upscaled HD and native 4k videogames and PC text is plain as day on my 55" inch TV from 5 feet away.

Those declarative statements about human vision are always BS.

Monday_
Feb 18, 2006

Worked-up silent dork without sex ability seeks oblivion and demise.
The Great Twist
Anyone who can't tell the difference at an appropriate distance needs their eyes checked.

Cemetry Gator
Apr 3, 2007

Do you find something comical about my appearance when I'm driving my automobile?

david_a posted:

For people that have gotten used to HDR (if that’s even possible yet), do normal Blu-rays look noticeably worse to you now?

No.

In all honesty, it's like going from an 8 out of 10 to a 10 out of 10. It's noticably better, but not so much so that an SDR picture is unwatchable, or even noticeable.

A good picture is a good picture. We're getting to the point where it is really fine tuning.

Steen71
Apr 10, 2017

Fun Shoe

JebanyPedal posted:

Any idea if Mad Max: Fury Road is upscaled or not?

Definitely upscaled. Check out Caps-a-holic's comparison.

Teenage Fansub
Jan 28, 2006

Steen71 posted:

Definitely upscaled. Check out Caps-a-holic's comparison.

Looks like two different grades. The UHD is slightly tighter and cooler.
Also, no bright highlight in the flames. Is that some HDR-to-SDR tonemapping thing?

edit:

I sure hope there's just something wrong with how they're presenting the screens and the flames aren't actually all one shade of orange in UHD.

Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Sep 1, 2018

I, Butthole
Jun 30, 2007

Begin the operations of the gas chambers, gas schools, gas universities, gas libraries, gas museums, gas dance halls, and gas threads, etcetera.
I DEMAND IT

Boywhiz88 posted:

I still pine for a 3D version of Jackass 3D, it would take it to the next level.

I have an unabashed love for those movies. I almost wrote a paper in a film genre class about how they could almost be certified Dogme95 films and tbh they're probably the best modern body horror movies.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!

I, Butthole posted:

I have an unabashed love for those movies. I almost wrote a paper in a film genre class about how they could almost be certified Dogme95 films and tbh they're probably the best modern body horror movies.

I watched Vol. 2 for the first time in years the other day with a fever of 102 and I don't know if it was the fever or what, but I was dying for most of the time (although they're really mean to Bam in that one).

I'll never forget seeing the first movie in a theater in high school with my best friend and when we got out to the parking lot, I had the most hysterical laughing fit for like five solid minutes, people were staring at me, I just could not stop laughing. It was like my reaction to all the absurdity I had just seen came flying out of me. I still have that one; I wonder if 3D is streaming anywhere.

Steen71
Apr 10, 2017

Fun Shoe

Teenage Fansub posted:

Is that some HDR-to-SDR tonemapping thing?

I would think so. In this case we should only their caps to compare detail levels.

Mr. Funny Pants
Apr 9, 2001

Timby posted:

I'll never forget seeing the first movie in a theater in high school with my best friend and when we got out to the parking lot, I had the most hysterical laughing fit for like five solid minutes, people were staring at me, I just could not stop laughing. It was like my reaction to all the absurdity I had just seen came flying out of me. I still have that one; I wonder if 3D is streaming anywhere.

I have no shame over loving those movies, they possess a weird kind of genius. Using fast forward when (in)appropriate, I watched 1 & 2 with my seven year old son a few weeks ago and we both laughed ourselves stupid. My brother said that seeing them in the theater was probably the most fun he ever had seeing a movie with an audience.

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!

Fun Shoe

CPL593H posted:

My understanding of these things was always that 4K in a home video context is just a marketing gimmick because you'd need a screen measured in feet and not inches to actually see the difference between that and 1080p.

That's really not the case. Is it the complete game changer that DVD was compared to VHS? Obviously no. But with a reasonably sized(55-65 inch) television, as long as you're sitting at a normal distance from the t.v. you should absolutely be able to tell the difference.

Whether you care of not about that difference is subjective, but the difference is pretty clear.

Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Sep 1, 2018

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Anime Deviant

Teenage Fansub posted:

I sure hope there's just something wrong with how they're presenting the screens and the flames aren't actually all one shade of orange in UHD.
My Samsung has like 3 different settings under the HDR+ menu, and I can guarantee one of them will gently caress up the colors some way or another.

I tried leaving it off, but the screen is brighter with it enabled so meh.

Lil Swamp Booger Baby
Aug 1, 1981

Bram Stoker's Dracula looked absolutely stunning, especially with OLED's nutty contrast. That was a great recommendation. I've already ordered Blade Runner 2049 and Annihilation as well.

EL BROMANCE
Jun 10, 2006

COWABUNGA DUDES!
🥷🐢😬



Even with the UHD print and a big 4K OLED I can’t bring myself to watch BR2049 because of how blown away I was by the imax print.

Boinks
Nov 24, 2003



I'm not upgrading my first release Blu Ray of Dracula until they fix the framing.

Egbert Souse
Nov 6, 2008

Warner Archive has a 4 for $44 deal until tomorrow:
https://www.wbshop.com/collections/warner-archive-4-for-44-sale/made-to-order-blu-ray?page=1

Night Moves, Joe Versus the Volcano, The Big Sleep, Yankee Doodle Dandy, Gun Crazy, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, etc.

(Keep in mind that the Batman: TAS set includes Mask of the Phantasm and Subzero, likely the exact same discs)

VoodooXT
Feb 24, 2006
I want Tong Po! Give me Tong Po!

Five Cent Deposit posted:

An uncompressed standard def transfer from film can fool many people into thinking they are watching an actual 35mm print if the projector and intermediate hardware are both top notch. I’ve done it - screened features that way, I mean - and had people ask me if they were watching film. Industry pros, even.

My cinematography mentor has a great story about this. Back when the first restoration of "Night of the Hunter" back in the 90s happened, they showed it at the ASC Clubhouse with Stanley Cortez in attendance. By chance, he sat next to Stanley during the screening and afterwards, Stanley turned to him and said, "That's the best the film has ever looked."

They were watching a standard definition restoration of "Night of the Hunter", which says a lot of the supposed resolution and color/tonal gamut of a film print.

VoodooXT fucked around with this message at 05:52 on Sep 4, 2018

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Five Cent Deposit
Jun 5, 2005

Sestero did not write The Disaster Artist, it's not true! It's bullshit! He did not write it!
*throws water bottle*
He did nahhhhht.

Oh hi, Greg.

VoodooXT posted:

My cinematography mentor has a great story about this. Back when the first restoration of "Night of the Hunter" back in the 90s happened, they showed it at the ASC Clubhouse with Stanley Cortez in attendance. By chance, he sat next to Stanley during the screening and afterwards, Stanley turned to him and said, "That's the best the film has ever looked."

They were watching a standard definition restoration of "Night of the Hunter", which says a lot of the supposed resolution and color/tonal gamut of a film print.

Thanks for sharing that story. I don’t doubt it happened pretty much as your mentor described.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply