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Boksi posted:Since Wiz mentioned the possibility of adding the ability to 'embrace' crime to a degree, I thought a bit about how that would work. I'd say the simplest way to implement it would be a civic, requiring you to not be egalitarian(but not requiring autocracy, to let you have a corrupt so-called 'democracy'). This civic would make enforcers very poor at reducing crime from ruler-strata pops(and perhaps less effective in general), but also enabling an 'oligarch' crime job for those ruler pops as well, which increase crime and decrease planet productivity, but generate influence to represent their symbiotic relationship with the government. So long as the oligarchs are happy, crime events are less frequent and/or less nasty(lots of general crime, but the big destabilizing stuff is kept under control), but if you piss them off you'll have to deal with the fact that your nation is a crime-ridden hellhole.
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Sep 1, 2018 22:21
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Crazycryodude posted:Does the planet also have a groundside FTL inhibitor on it, like a fortress or whatever? That could be the problem if you've taken out the space-based inhibitor but still can't pass. Ah this was what I was missing nice one!
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Sep 1, 2018 22:40
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Enforcers are called that instead of Police because their job isn't to reduce or prevent crime, it's to maintain control. In a genuine democracy they work for the people, in an oligarchy or dictatorship they commonly raid political groups and only kick over the criminal operations that aren't serving the interests of rulers.
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Sep 1, 2018 22:45
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:Are there any other ethos that pair well with a life seeded start besides an inward perfection build? I’m thinking of making my next race be life seeded so that I can pretend my people see themselves as a shining city on a hill, but at the same time don’t really them to be a bunch of space racists... diplomacy with the AI isn’t super engaging, but I feel like avoiding it entirely would cut back on some emergent story telling. You could go materialist and use droids to colonise other worlds, you could go xenophile to try to attract migrants, you can invade/infiltrate primitive worlds and use their pops to colonise (either as slaves or free citizens depending on your dickishness). Build habitats too. I don't see life-seeded as being particularly restrictive in terms of the ethos or species.
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Sep 2, 2018 00:17
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Reveilled posted:You could go materialist and use droids to colonise other worlds, you could go xenophile to try to attract migrants, you can invade/infiltrate primitive worlds and use their pops to colonise (either as slaves or free citizens depending on your dickishness). Build habitats too. I don't see life-seeded as being particularly restrictive in terms of the ethos or species.
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Sep 2, 2018 00:20
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Can't wait to get better diplomacy and specially better vassal interactions. I don't want to annex anyone, I don't want to forcefully integrate or oppress other cultures. All I want is some sort of defensive alliance, enforced ideology, and some ways for me to help un-gently caress your planets and borders.
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Sep 2, 2018 00:34
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Splicer posted:Go Feudal and sit in your perfect world bossing around the riff raff. It's not that they're beneath you, you're just above them. Totally different. Haha very well said!
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Sep 2, 2018 00:43
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Baronjutter posted:Can't wait to get better diplomacy and specially better vassal interactions.
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Sep 2, 2018 00:55
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Nessus posted:I feel like if you're enforcing their ethics and altering their planetary development and borders you may be interfering with their culture already. Yes, I want to be their space-dad and help raise them right.
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Sep 2, 2018 00:56
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I want the oppression to be for their own good and for them to like it.
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Sep 2, 2018 01:04
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wiegieman posted:Enforcers are called that instead of Police because their job isn't to reduce or prevent crime, it's to maintain control. So, wait, why aren't they called police then?
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Sep 2, 2018 01:22
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OwlFancier posted:I want the oppression to be for their own good and for them to like it. Get Nerve stapling and you can have both and neither.
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Sep 2, 2018 01:30
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Baronjutter posted:Yes, I want to be their space-dad and help raise them right.
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Sep 2, 2018 09:18
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Splicer posted:I'm willing to bet the experiments you're referring to involve evolutionary programming. Similar experiments resulted in robots who learned how to lie. Empathy, co-operation, and altruism all exist because in social animals contributing to the welfare of the group tends to result in better survival rates for your family's genes. It emerged in the described experiments because co-operating helped achieve the group goals, which applied evolutionary pressure favouring the emergent co-operative behaviour. Oh no, selfish robots and all kinds of demented AI are 100% in our future, with humans being humans, that's pretty much a given. I was just pointing out that empathy and all that stuff isn't coming from instincts. That's why you for example had to start with social animals, as only higher forms of life with a large brain can develop these kinds of behavior. Social animals (like humans), have to train their offspring in co-operative and altruistic behavior, or you get problems. Of course, with co-operation things are more muddled, as basically mindless animals like ants also are capable of large-scale cooperation. (Why that is I don't know, though.) OK, so co-operation obviously can show up as instinctive behavior, so maybe I'm totally wrong. 
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Sep 2, 2018 12:19
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You should view every ant in a colony as an organ of the queen. Scent trails and chemical suggestions lead them around to do her bidding, discarding any other output beside basic survival instincts. When ants cooperate, "they" literally do it as one being, with the queen overriding all other priorities. Ants are so very, very alien to how we function, and yet we emulate them in a lot of ways.
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Sep 2, 2018 12:46
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Mole rats I think would be a better analogy as I don't think they have quite the same structure as an ant colony.
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Sep 2, 2018 13:31
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Random thought, any chance of the marketing guys or whatever making Utopia like a baseline include for Stellaris at some point? I can't imagine recommending any new players come into the game without having Utopia.
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Sep 2, 2018 15:00
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Hey, am I right in thinking there was a mod that halved planet size and double planetary resources? A friend asked about it to help their performance on their potato but I can't track it down. Help appreciated!
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Sep 2, 2018 15:48
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Libluini posted:Oh no, selfish robots and all kinds of demented AI are 100% in our future, with humans being humans, that's pretty much a given. I was just pointing out that empathy and all that stuff isn't coming from instincts. That's why you for example had to start with social animals, as only higher forms of life with a large brain can develop these kinds of behavior. Social animals (like humans), have to train their offspring in co-operative and altruistic behavior, or you get problems. Of course, with co-operation things are more muddled, as basically mindless animals like ants also are capable of large-scale cooperation. (Why that is I don't know, though.) You're right that a simple organism acting primarily on stimulus-response can never be altruistic as we would define it, but they can't be selfish as we would define it either. Co-operative simple organisms can and do occur though, because all genes care about is being the best at reproducing and co-operation among family groupings is a great way to get genes to survive. Black Pants posted:Random thought, any chance of the marketing guys or whatever making Utopia like a baseline include for Stellaris at some point? I can't imagine recommending any new players come into the game without having Utopia. Splicer fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Sep 2, 2018 |
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Sep 2, 2018 16:55
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Arrrgh I just gave up a game I had a bunch of time sunk into because the goddamn robots decided they had a soul, which obviously means that they need to rebel and destroy my entire economy one building at a time. I’ll be very excited when we no longer have to deal with tiles - I can’t see myself going back to fix everything now that I’m super in the red. Anyways! I want to dedicate my next game to defeating a fallen empire. Are there any good strategies or fleet compositions I should be looking at? I know that the name of the game is researching their rubble after fights, but that’s about as far as I’ve ever gotten.
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Sep 2, 2018 20:43
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THE BAR posted:Of course, with co-operation things are more muddled, as basically mindless animals like ants also are capable of large-scale cooperation. (Why that is I don't know, though.) Evolution is designed to perpetuate genes, not lifeforms. That instinct humans have not to get themselves killed to help a stranger, that's their genes trying to survive. With ants only the queen has children, so only the queen really has an evolutionary motivated survival instinct. If her (sterile) kids are willing to die to let her have more kids, then the genes conti That's how you get things like honeybees that die if they sting. If those honeybees all had their own kids then pretty soon you'd have a mutant honeybee go "gently caress that, let someone else do the stinging, I'm going to have kids" and shortly thereafter all honeybees would be that bee's descendants. Bremen fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Sep 2, 2018 |
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Sep 2, 2018 21:25
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Bremen posted:honeybees that die if they sting.
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Sep 2, 2018 23:32
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Splicer posted:Turns out this isn't a thing! It's mainly human skin that honeybees regularly get stuck in, and if you do get stung by a honeybee they will try to work their way free if you let them. If you start swatting at them though then they'll try to fly away and that's when they rip out their innards. Animals that can't swat them or have tougher skin can get stung absolutely fine. Is it true that bees ignore the laws of aviation as well?
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Sep 3, 2018 00:11
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TalonDemonKing posted:Is it true that bees ignore the laws of aviation as well?
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Sep 3, 2018 01:32
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I really want to play this game again... but I really really want to play the new patch.
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Sep 3, 2018 01:32
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TalonDemonKing posted:Is it true that bees ignore the laws of aviation as well?
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Sep 3, 2018 01:59
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Splicer posted:Turns out this isn't a thing! It's mainly human skin that honeybees regularly get stuck in, and if you do get stung by a honeybee they will try to work their way free if you let them. If you start swatting at them though then they'll try to fly away and that's when they rip out their innards. Animals that can't swat them or have tougher skin can get stung absolutely fine.
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Sep 3, 2018 02:17
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GunnerJ posted:So, wait, why aren't they called police then? Well, "Police" at least implies a thin veneer of obligation to the public at large. An Egalitarian society would actually have that be true.
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Sep 3, 2018 02:31
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wiegieman posted:Well, "Police" at least implies a thin veneer of obligation to the public at large. An Egalitarian society would actually have that be true.
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Sep 3, 2018 02:51
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Yes but police sounds boring while Enforcers sounds cool and this is a scifi game so
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Sep 3, 2018 03:23
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I love games where like half the poo poo in the game is a text field you can re-name and wish more things in stellaris were like this. Re-name your classes/jobs/faction anything you dang well want.
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Sep 3, 2018 03:36
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Would make playing as Alpha Complex even better if your dudes are literally high programmers/troubleshooters/infrareds/communists.
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Sep 3, 2018 03:37
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OwlFancier posted:Would make playing as Alpha Complex even better if your dudes are literally high programmers/troubleshooters/infrareds/communists. Ha, buddy of mine in a coop game is doing that right now and it took me too long to work out what was going on.
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Sep 3, 2018 03:39
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If we want to get etymological about things I would respond that "Police" carries with it the implied meanings inherent in the modern English usage of the French loan word, among them the Peelian principles, while "Enforcer" carries with it the the sneering swagger of a well dressed organized criminal. But I live in America so I know I'd just be fooling myself.
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Sep 3, 2018 03:43
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If you're invoking that you could just go back to calling them peelers
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Sep 3, 2018 03:54
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Bremen posted:Evolution is designed to perpetuate genes, not lifeforms. That instinct humans have not to get themselves killed to help a stranger, that's their genes trying to survive. With ants only the queen has children, so only the queen really has an evolutionary motivated survival instinct. If her (sterile) kids are willing to die to let her have more kids, then the genes conti Actually the queen is a tool the workers use to perpetuate their own genes because ~evobio~.
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Sep 3, 2018 04:43
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OwlFancier posted:If you're invoking that you could just go back to calling them peelers We still call them that in Norn Iron 
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Sep 3, 2018 04:53
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Baronjutter posted:I love games where like half the poo poo in the game is a text field you can re-name and wish more things in stellaris were like this. Re-name your classes/jobs/faction anything you dang well want. Wiz make this a thing so I can make the slave jobs sound overly cheerful
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Sep 3, 2018 05:07
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TalonDemonKing posted:Wiz make this a thing so I can make the slave jobs sound overly cheerful 
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Sep 3, 2018 05:16
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"POPs with newfound direction in life."
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Sep 3, 2018 05:29
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