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Real change: abandon bronze age worldviews all together and make something new I really don't understand how Catholicism can truly enter modernity and remain anything more than a name and a history. Almost all of its core teachings are inherently regressive
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Sep 2, 2018 17:38
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The Bloop posted:Almost all of its core teachings are inherently regressive So are the Republican party's and yet here we are. I've been rewatching the early seasons of It's Always Sunny and man that gets uncomfortable sometimes even though at no point are the main characters depicted as normal or admirable.
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Sep 2, 2018 17:41
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GrandpaPants posted:So are the Republican party's and yet here we are. Because of the implication?
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Sep 2, 2018 17:42
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GrandpaPants posted:So are the Republican party's and yet here we are. Don’t the characters and situations just get worse as time goes on though
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Sep 2, 2018 17:44
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I always laugh when I see any conversation about "A Progressive Pope" - the Church is by design a lower-case-C conservative institution, and the Pope's job is literally to defend Orthodoxy. Hoping for a progressive Pope is actually less realistic than crossing your fingers that the next person appointed to run the Federal Reserve will be an artistic anarchist.
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Sep 2, 2018 18:19
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Krispy Wafer posted:Except she kind of was losing her mind. I think her assets are still being controlled by her father and Kevin Federline managed to sole primary custody of their kids, which is something no one ever saw coming. The way Spears was treated was bullshit, but she wasn't mentally well. Mister Kingdom posted:Craig Ferguson stopped making fun of her, as well. Choco1980 posted:Yeah, I appreciated the way South Park treated Michael Jackson as well, mostly because that's always been my view of him too--I always thought he was innocent of pedophilia, but was instead a deeply mentally ill man whose insanely abusive childhood kinda prevented him from properly maturing psychologically and emotionally, who then happened to be talented enough that the whole world was handed to him on a platinum platter.
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Sep 2, 2018 18:38
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Choco1980 posted:Yeah, I appreciated the way South Park treated Michael Jackson as well, mostly because that's always been my view of him too--I always thought he was innocent of pedophilia, but was instead a deeply mentally ill man whose insanely abusive childhood kinda prevented him from properly maturing psychologically and emotionally, who then happened to be talented enough that the whole world was handed to him on a platinum platter. Even the Venture Bros parody of Michael Jackson (combined with Superman and Batman, and voiced by Kevin Conroy) played to that angle; not a pedophile, he doesn't fit the profile compared to actual predators, but a hosed up man with no one to say no to him trying to relive his childhood while having a screwed up sense of boundaries and normalcy.
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Sep 2, 2018 18:43
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Aesop Poprock posted:Don’t the characters and situations just get worse as time goes on though The humour definitely changes from the early seasons. For example there's a transgender character who one of the main characters sort of has a thing with, and is deeply ashamed about this.The first episode with her in is basically "hurrr gross he's banging a a chick with a dick", while in the later seasons it's much clearer that the joke is that she's perfectly well adjusted, they're being idiot assholes about it, and she quickly tires of their bullshit. There's lots of stuff like that I think. Right at the beginning there's more poo poo bro-y humour. In one of the early episodes they try to get free lap dances by pretending to be disabled veterans or something, and the strippers are all comically dumb bimbos and the plan basically works - the humour comes from them loving up a sweet plan to score hot girls by fighting among themselves. In the later seasons stuff like that generally plays out with bit characters not being fooled by them for a second and generally just being appalled and confused by their bullshit. Haven't watched them in forever though so I might be misremembering
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Sep 2, 2018 19:57
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The Bloop posted:I really don't understand how Catholicism can truly enter modernity and remain anything more than a name and a history. Almost all of its core teachings are inherently regressive keep in mind that it's in the nature of institutions to have a natural inclination towards conservatism, and at its worst a lean towards convenient regressiveness until its worst positions become untenable, but this tendency rarely collapses institutions whole if ever to use an example that turns the situation on its head, some scholars argue that one of the major factors in the rise of biological racism was that in the early years of the age of discovery the catholic church declared on theological grounds via papal bull that all non-europeans were, in fact, fully rational human beings with a soul deserving the same treatment and rights in the eyes of society and law regardless of their personal beliefs or status as a colonized people, explicitly naming tools of oppression like enslavement or forced conversion as anathema to christendom, then later re-affirmed that papal bull despite it being massively controversial and a huge inconvenience to empire building while it's certainly possible to just ignore religious decrees, and many did, it did popularize the moral debate and racism as argued from from the position of rationality, and then later on more formally by science and academia, became the chief method of defusing theological arguments in the name of an objective truth discoverable by reason while justifying social policy on a level whose influence on world history can scarcely be understated - whole disciplines whose claim to truth stems from detached objectivity were at least tinged with the sort of thinking that promotes inequality (from the limited perspective of the elect) until as late as the 1980s with efforts to reform the collective narrative, and not collapse disciplines whole, into being more inclusive representing a major ongoing trend in modern academia and probably society as a whole tbh in the end reform should always be attempted even if you doubt whether it can undo what's been done or if you think the pervasiveness of the existing situation limits the scope of reform too much to be meaningful - reform is the kind of thing that builds on itself once you get the ball rolling after all, i'm not catholic so i don't know what things they actually want from their institution but if catholics do want reform i say let them try? CommonShore posted:Pope's job is literally to defend Orthodoxy in all fairness the difference between surface orthodoxy and underlying orthodoxy is why some pope's actually believe they are defending orthodoxy by making amendments more in line with good theology than existing practices
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Sep 2, 2018 21:05
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hard counter posted:in the end reform should always be attempted even if you doubt whether it can undo what's been done or if you think the pervasiveness of the existing situation limits the scope of reform too much to be meaningful - reform is the kind of thing that builds on itself once you get the ball rolling after all, i'm not catholic so i don't know what things they actually want from their institution but if catholics do want reform i say let them try? Ghost Leviathan posted:Even the Venture Bros parody of Michael Jackson (combined with Superman and Batman, and voiced by Kevin Conroy) played to that angle; not a pedophile, he doesn't fit the profile compared to actual predators, but a hosed up man with no one to say no to him trying to relive his childhood while having a screwed up sense of boundaries and normalcy.
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Sep 2, 2018 22:28
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CommonShore posted:and the Pope's job is literally to defend Orthodoxy. 
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Sep 2, 2018 22:55
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trickybiscuits posted:I will stand by my opinion till I die that he had inappropriate sexual contact with children and I really do not understand why people buy the whole "he had a terrible childhood, no one gave him any boundaries, he was just trying to recapture his childhood" thing. I can go into more detail on this if you want to be depressed. In other words, he probably did wrong but from a place of innocence or confusion rather than attempting something he knew to be harmful. He was not neurotypical and judging the morality of his motivations like someone who was is unfair. Probably. Doesn't mean he should have been given the opportunity though, obviously.
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Sep 3, 2018 00:09
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This is not the thread to smash the pope to pieces with your strong fists no matter how deserved so please return to light and breezy topics like the rampant transphobia of 90s sitcoms
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Sep 3, 2018 00:37
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I think I mentioned this before in this thread, but I was rewatching some DVDs of The Norm Show, the '90s Norm sitcom and it's aged pretty well aside from an alarming amount of gay panic
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Sep 3, 2018 00:51
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Remember when Paul VI showed up on "I Love Lucy"? That was cute.
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Sep 3, 2018 01:13
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EmmyOk posted:This is not the thread to smash the pope to pieces with your strong fists no matter how deserved so please return to light and breezy topics like the rampant transphobia of 90s sitcoms Casual transphobia is a 2000s thing. You could still make fun of gays back in the 90s.
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Sep 3, 2018 01:31
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I’d say it would be more like transphobia that doesn’t understand that it isn’t homophobia. Like in the Mystery Science Theater 3000 short with Mr. B Natural they make a ton of jokes about Mr. B being gay, even though what they seem to be noticing is that the impish, Peter Pan-inspired Mr. B is played by a woman. It’s like something makes them uncomfortable and they don’t quite get that it’s a woman in drag that bothers them so they keep shouting, “you’re gay, Mr. B Natural!”
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Sep 3, 2018 01:36
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That was so gay, it's practically transgender.
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Sep 3, 2018 01:48
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Why would you guys want to fight the pope he's to busy playing that copy of Undertale he got from a youtuber
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Sep 3, 2018 01:57
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Benedict XVI would get Genocide Ending on a first try
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Sep 3, 2018 03:20
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gleebster posted:Remember when Paul VI showed up on "I Love Lucy"? That was cute. Something about the conveyor belt getting turned to high speed
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Sep 3, 2018 05:35
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This article makes the claim that Always Sunny has gotten more progressive in a sense, even if the character's haven't. I haven't seen enough of the show to know how good a claim it is though.HOOLY BOOLY posted:Why would you guys want to fight the pope he's to busy playing that copy of Undertale he got from a youtuber I want to fight the Pope because he's the final boss of Assassin's Creed 2.
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Sep 3, 2018 05:49
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Doctor Spaceman posted:This article makes the claim that Always Sunny has gotten more progressive in a sense, even if the character's haven't. I haven't seen enough of the show to know how good a claim it is though. yeah i'd basically agree with everything in that article, for a long time always sunny has struck a good balance of reveling in how awful and lovely the gang is without endorsing any of said shittyness
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Sep 3, 2018 06:00
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The gang even got more progressive while getting even shittier in one recent episode.
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Sep 3, 2018 06:18
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Last Chance posted:I think I mentioned this before in this thread, but I was rewatching some DVDs of The Norm Show, the '90s Norm sitcom and it's aged pretty well aside from an alarming amount of gay panic I can't remember a single thing about The Norm Show other than this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ER6lPaxhWeA 
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Sep 3, 2018 06:19
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Vandar posted:I can't remember a single thing about The Norm Show other than this: I'm mostly sober and this seems like something you'd get from a fever dream or acid flashbacks
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Sep 3, 2018 06:24
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I like Laurie Metcalf Butterfree. "I wanna throw a chair at him!"
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Sep 3, 2018 06:34
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Captain Planet didn't go far enough. Though on a lighter note it does come to mind as being one of the only shows I remember from my childhood that had Africans (from Africa), Asians and South Americans (and Eastern Europeans?) regularly depicted as fairly normal, relatable people without bringing up some stereotype every other line.
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Sep 3, 2018 08:07
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Are you definitely remembering accurately? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQJrovKgrTw EmmyOk has a new favorite as of 08:16 on Sep 3, 2018 |
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Sep 3, 2018 08:10
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I didn't say the Irish, to be fair. Also I don't think I saw that episode. I might have only had the second season on TV irregularly.
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Sep 3, 2018 08:24
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All the characters are from a specific country except the Asian one, she's from Asia. Because the entire continent is homogenous and it isn't worth specifying which country she's from. She wasn't portrayed as a stereotype but as someone who often got asked by other people if I could speak Korean or if the local Chinese restaurant was owned by my family despite having a very common Japanese surname, it was pretty annoying. And then the Soviet Union fell so the girl from there became vaguely Eastern European as a result so I guess Gi wasn't alone in being from nowhere in particular.
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Sep 3, 2018 08:27
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I thought she was Chinese, I think.
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Sep 3, 2018 08:54
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Don Gato posted:All the characters are from a specific country except the Asian one, she's from Asia. Because the entire continent is homogenous and it isn't worth specifying which country she's from. She wasn't portrayed as a stereotype but as someone who often got asked by other people if I could speak Korean or if the local Chinese restaurant was owned by my family despite having a very common Japanese surname, it was pretty annoying. What country was the African bloke from? I thought he was from generic "Africa". Just as the annoying Heart kid was from generic "south america".
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Sep 3, 2018 09:27
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BrigadierSensible posted:What country was the African bloke from? I thought he was from generic "Africa". Just as the annoying Heart kid was from generic "south america". Yeah, Linka was actually the odd one out in being from a specific country rather than a region. Even Wheeler's from "North America". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyOMYC6mlsY
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Sep 3, 2018 09:41
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I went to see The League of Gentleman Live last night and although it was on the whole very funny, one or two of their characters have not aged well. Herr Lipp in particular seemed a really awful negative stereotype of homosexuality, and the blending of is a gay with is a sexual predator was deeply uncomfortable.
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Sep 3, 2018 09:51
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BrigadierSensible posted:What country was the African bloke from? I thought he was from generic "Africa". Just as the annoying Heart kid was from generic "south america". African guy is from Ghana, the American is from Brooklyn and the south American kid is from the Amazon in Brazil. Why the gently caress do I still know this I don't even know where they mention it but it's now burned into my brain.
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Sep 3, 2018 09:53
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Captain Planet always gets me with the insane amount of star power in the original cast:
And that's just the main cast! The guest starring roles had: Elizabeth Taylor, Malcom McDowell, Louis Gossett Jr., Danny Glover, Vanna White, Neil Patrick Harris, Dionne Warwick, Rita Moreno, Jonathan Winters, and Helen Hunt.
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Sep 3, 2018 10:04
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Ted Turner actually reached out to David Trimble and John Hume to appear in the "Captain Planet Saves Belfast" episode but it fell through because neither of them could convincingly portray a teenager.
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Sep 3, 2018 10:13
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Toshimo posted:Captain Planet always gets me with the insane amount of star power in the original cast: People really cared about the environment I guess. 
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Sep 3, 2018 10:27
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Absurd Alhazred posted:People really cared about the environment I guess. the 80s were a strange time to grow up, I really thought that every adult was really interested in preserving it and that it was this big deal that all the grown ups agreed on. Im sure giving a poo poo about sexual assault the way we do now will be considered just as ridiculous in 20 years.
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Sep 3, 2018 11:35
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