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prisoner of waffles
May 8, 2007

Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the fishmech
About my neck was hung.

ThePeavstenator posted:

I had an intern this summer, his work involves interfacing with the software my team writes, and he reports to a different manager at the same level as mine. I had a person that I was actually being paid to mentor and me offering help was a courtesy in the first place.

I don't doubt that you have helped others learn stuff and that you offered help to this guy. e: also I get it-- organizationally speaking, this person is Not Your Responsibility and you are a good teammate for looking out for them, period

Perhaps not at all relevant to your experience, but my tactic when leaning on people to do the right thing (and not leave work in a losable state) re: version control is basically just to keep on repeating, "the way it is right now, we could lose this work that you have done" between talking about how easy it will be to actually keep the work and/or how it's okay if not everything is perfect or complete, "this is just a branch"

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ThePeavstenator
Dec 18, 2012

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:

Establish the Buns

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:

prisoner of waffles posted:

I don't doubt that you have helped others learn stuff and that you offered help to this guy. e: also I get it-- organizationally speaking, this person is Not Your Responsibility and you are a good teammate for looking out for them, period

Perhaps not at all relevant to your experience, but my tactic when leaning on people to do the right thing (and not leave work in a losable state) re: version control is basically just to keep on repeating, "the way it is right now, we could lose this work that you have done" between talking about how easy it will be to actually keep the work and/or how it's okay if not everything is perfect or complete, "this is just a branch"

I did this exact thing every time he asked for help.

DONT THREAD ON ME
Oct 1, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
Floss Finder
cant help someone who is unwilling to learn. i think the only thing to question is whether something about your process had them so stressed that they didnt think they could take their time and learn to do things right.

CRIP EATIN BREAD
Jun 24, 2002

Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T



Soiled Meat
people who dont want to learn are basically people who dont want to work.

take them to the river and drown them.

prisoner of waffles
May 8, 2007

Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the fishmech
About my neck was hung.

ThePeavstenator posted:

I did this exact thing every time he asked for help.

you did right, my bad for criticizing

qsvui
Aug 23, 2003
some crazy thing
gently caress that guy

darthbob88
Oct 13, 2011

YOSPOS

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

people who dont want to learn are basically people who dont want to work.

take them to the river and drown them.
No, just throw them in. People who don't want to swim are people who don't want to live.

Doom Mathematic
Sep 2, 2008
I'm more interested in how this person was allowed to work for two or three straight weeks in a row, by himself, with nothing to show for it. Every morning, "Nope, still haven't done any work"?

ThePeavstenator
Dec 18, 2012

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:

Establish the Buns

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:

Doom Mathematic posted:

I'm more interested in how this person was allowed to work for two or three straight weeks in a row, by himself, with nothing to show for it. Every morning, "Nope, still haven't done any work"?

His job is to move customer data from our old software to the new software. His manager only cares that the customers can get migrated and that the data is in a state they're happy with. The code he lost was for tools he wrote for himself.

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

trying to teach people how to use vcs tools is basically my least favorite thing and i just wont do it any more its just too frustrating. fuckers out here checking in copy of copy of backup final spreadsheet(1).xlsx right next to spreadsheet.xlsx like its totally fine and i just cant

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
Git's ui sucks but ugh yeah cmon people at least try

Not gonna expect people to push immaculate rebaded change sets polished to a shine on the lathe of git interactive rebase but at least get the basic stuff right

gonadic io
Feb 16, 2011

>>=
Git has a ui?

CRIP EATIN BREAD
Jun 24, 2002

Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T



Soiled Meat
uh yes?

Skyl3lazer
Aug 27, 2007

[Dooting Stealthily]



git is good, wish we used it here over svn bc i like local branches. Also it's way easier to merge w/ git which sounds weird and might be ebcause I'm more used to git.

elcannon
Jun 24, 2009
Was on a call with a client today who wanted our tool to interface with some other piece of software they use so we end up getting some type of 'integration representative' for the product on the call. He starts bragging about all of their features and interface capabilities and tells us that the DB that the application sits on has over 40,000 tables. Is this a thing that people actually do? All we could think of internally is that maybe the entire schema is generated programmatically and there's stuff like a different 'orders' table for every month up to %FUTUREDATE%?

champagne posting
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

table-1
TEST-table-1-delete

as Infiniti

Finster Dexter
Oct 20, 2014

Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

elcannon posted:

Was on a call with a client today who wanted our tool to interface with some other piece of software they use so we end up getting some type of 'integration representative' for the product on the call. He starts bragging about all of their features and interface capabilities and tells us that the DB that the application sits on has over 40,000 tables. Is this a thing that people actually do? All we could think of internally is that maybe the entire schema is generated programmatically and there's stuff like a different 'orders' table for every month up to %FUTUREDATE%?

That's weird. I worked at a mid-size bank for a little while and the number of tables was less than 1000. I worked on a large public-safety platform and that had like 300-ish tables. What industry would have 40000 tables? Maybe health care?

vanity slug
Jul 20, 2010

Finster Dexter posted:

That's weird. I worked at a mid-size bank for a little while and the number of tables was less than 1000. I worked on a large public-safety platform and that had like 300-ish tables. What industry would have 40000 tables? Maybe health care?

the industry of badly architected applications

so probably healthcare

elcannon
Jun 24, 2009
It is healthcare, yes. I've been working in the industry for a little under a year now, so I've seen enough that I'm concerned that our next call is going to end with them settling on the interface option of "we'll email you the sa creds, have at it".

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006
healthcare data can be hard to normalize so lots of tables is expected but idk about 40k

CRIP EATIN BREAD
Jun 24, 2002

Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T



Soiled Meat
speaking of C in the past few threads, I saw the 2018 IOCCC sources were released.

code:
#include<fcntl.h>
#include<unistd.h>
#include<termios.h>
#include <sys/time.h>
#include  <sys/mman.h>
# define L } if(!i -- ){
struct timeval F,G; struct termios H,U={ T} ; enum{ N=64,a=N<<7,b=a-1,c=a*32,d
=c-1,    e=c/    2,f=    a*2,    g=a/2,h =g/2,j =h/ 2,Q=V*j*5} ; char*s=P,K,M;
int*      p,      l[      a]      ,m,n,J,o=A,    O=j,E,R,i,k,t,r,q,u,v,w,x,y,z
,B,C,    *D,Z    ;int    main    (){ for(D=mmap(D,4*Q,3,W,open(I,2 ),K); *s; o
++[ l]=k|=* s++%N){ k=* s++%N<<12; k|=*s++% N*N; } tcgetattr(q,& H); tcsetattr
(y,2,    &U);    for(    fcntl(B,4,4); ; o&=b){ if(k&    c){ q=- --k%N; if(!q)
k-=c      ;i      =k      /N&7; { L L if(J&1)    m+=      t; J|=m%N*c; J/=2; m
/= 2;    if(!    q&&r    ^n){ m^=d; J^= d; n=0; } L L    J+=J; J|=m>=0; if(q){
m+=m; m|=J/c; m+=m<0?t:-t; } else{ m+=(m<0)*t; if(r)m^=d; if(n^r)J^= d; n=0; }
L if(    (m^2    *m)/    e%2)    k&=d; else{ J+=J; m+=m; m|=J/c; } L m|=n*c; J
|= m      %N      *c      ;m      /=2; J /=2;    L m+=m; J+=J; J|=n; m|=J/c; L
m+=m;    m|=n    ;  }    J&=d    ; } else{ i=k/f; t=i?k&b:16; p=l+t; if(k&a)p=
l+((*p+=13>i&&7<t&&16>t)&b); { L i=1; L*p=m; L*p++=o|n*e; o=p-l; L*p=0; L m=*p
; L m ^=*p ; L t=m; m    +=*p; m+=d<m    ; n|=((m^t)&    (m^*p))/e; L    m+=*p
; n=m/c; L k=*p; if(      !Z||k/f-8)      /*$    %*/      continue ;      k=-k
; L++*p; o +=!(*p&=d)    ; L m&=*p; L     if(m!=*p)++    o; L o=p -l;    L if(
k&a)n=m/e; if(k&g)J= 0; r=k&h&&m&e; if(k&j)J|=m; else if(r)m^=d; if(k&512)m=0;
i=k/N    &7; { L if(k    &4)J    ^=d; if(k&2)m|=J; if    (k&1    )m|=    q;  }
else      { if(k%N)k      +=      c; { L t =o    ++[      l]      ;       if(r
)J^=d;   L L t=o++[l];   if(r    )J^=d; m-=t; if(m>=0    ){ k    -=c;     n=1;
++o; } } i=2; } L if(Z)k=-1; else{ if(k&8)m=0; t=r=0; i=k/N%N; if(i==27){ if(k
&2)u=v=w=Z=0;    } if    (i==57){ i=k/16&3; { L w =1;    if(k&1)x =0;    if(k&
2) { t= z/N;      t=      t/80*/*/*/100+t% 80;   r=0      ; while(t)      {  r
+=t%10*w; t/=    10;w    <<=4; } m|=r; } if(k&4){ r=m    ; t=0; while    (r) {
t+=r%16*w; w*=10; r>>=4; } r=t/100; t%=100; if(V<=r||79<t)x|=c/8; else z=(r*80
+t)*N    ;  }    w=0;    L if(k& 1&&x    &(e|g) )++o;    if(k& 2)m|=x    |y;if
(k&4      )C      =-      m&65535; L      if(    k&1      )x=y=0; if      (k&2
)B=m;    if (    k&4)    { y^=m&(h|j|    j/2); if(y&j    ){ y^=j;x|=g    ; do{
B&=b; if(y&j/2)z[D]=B[l]; else B[l]=z[D]; ++z; z%=Q; ++B; } while(-- C); } } }
x%=e;    if(x    /a)x    |=e;    if(x&(e|g)&&y&h)u|=c    ; else u%=c;    L if(
k&1)      t=      h;      if      (k&2 )r= e;    if(      k&4){ r=j;      u&=~
h ; }    if(k    &16)    Z=f*    2; L L L t=f; if(k&2    )m|=M|Y; if(    k&4)m
|=u|v; L t=a; if(k&4){ K=m&~Y; write(1,&K,1); u|=t; t=0; } } i=2; if(t){ if(k&
1&&u&t)++ o; if(k&2)u    &=~ t; } if(    r){ if(k&32)    w=r;    else v&=~r; }
} L if(k&a)m=k; else      { t=0; if(      k &    N)t      |=      m/e%2; if(k&
128)t|=!m; if(k&256)t    |= n; if( k&    512 )t=!t; o    +=t;    if(k& h)n =0;
if(k&g)m=0; if(k&1)m^=d; if(k&2)n^=1; if(k&4)m|=S; if(k&8){ m|=n*c; m+=m; if(k
& j)m    +=m;    m|=m    /a/N    ; n=m/c; } if(k&16){ m|=n*c;    m|=m    *2%N*
c; m      /=      2;      if      (k&j) m/=2;    n=m/c; } if      (k      &32)
{ if(    Z)k=    -1 ;    else    break; } } } } n&=1; if(k<c)    {  m    &= d;
o &=b; if(!R--){ if (~u&f &&read(0, &M,1)>0){ if(X&& M== X)break; R=0; u|=f; }
gettimeofday(&G,0); G.tv_usec/=16667; if(G.tv_sec>F.tv_sec||F.tv_usec<G.
tv_usec){ F=G; if(v&j){ p=l+7; ++*p; *p&=d; if(!*p)u|=h; } R=0; } if
(!R){ E=O/4; O=4; } O+=R=E; } if(!++k||(v&e&&u)){ *l=o|n*e|Z;v%=
e; o=1+!k; Z=0; } v|=w; w=0; k=o++[l]; } }tcsetattr(w,1,&H); }
This is:

quote:

The program delivered here is both a full machine emulation of the original
PDP-7 that Ken Thompson used to write the first version of UNIX and a full
machine emulation of the PDP-11/40 used by subsequent UNIXes. The `Makefile`
can build versions that can run each of the following:

1. UNIX v0 for the PDP-7 (circa 1969)
2. Research UNIX Version 6 (circa 1975)
3. BSD 2.9 (circa 1983)

if this doesn't make you feel terrible, I don't know what will.

gonadic io
Feb 16, 2011

>>=

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:


if this doesn't make you feel terrible, I don't know what will.

ill, sure.

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...
glad im following up on "C thinks everything is a PDP-11" right after ^^^^

gonadic io posted:

c is v good to learn pointers in, but it's for sure not what is happening under the hood at least for modern processors:
C Is Not a Low-level Language
i've given this article a few tries and i still don't understand it

there's a ludicrous amount of handwaving very, very early on:
"A modern Intel processor has up to 180 instructions in flight at a time" - nope
"A typical heuristic for C code is that there is a branch, on average, every seven instructions." - meaningless without an ISA
"If you wish to keep such a pipeline full from a single thread, then you must guess the targets of the next 25 branches." whoa, who knew multiplying two made-up numbers would also produce garbage!

it's clearly wedded to "C on x86," but doesn't really mention that or talk about something like cortex-m where c's mapping to the HW is much higher fidelity

the section under "Imagining a Non-C Processor" gives Sparc undue credence, and falls back on the generic functional programmer rant that the entire history of computing ought to have been better if "immutable" had existed on the first caching designs

CRIP EATIN BREAD
Jun 24, 2002

Hey stop worrying bout my acting bitch, and worry about your WACK ass music. In the mean time... Eat a hot bowl of Dicks! Ice T



Soiled Meat
x86 was a mistake

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

x86 was a mistake

agreed

redleader
Aug 18, 2005

Engage according to operational parameters

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

computers was a mistake

Beamed
Nov 26, 2010

Then you have a responsibility that no man has ever faced. You have your fear which could become reality, and you have Godzilla, which is reality.


Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
anybody remember transmeta

their technology was pretty cool apart from the unfortunate aspect that it didn't actually do anything useful

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

Sapozhnik posted:

anybody remember transmeta

their technology was pretty cool apart from the unfortunate aspect that it didn't actually do anything useful

i thought they existed just to provide linus a salary

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

Sapozhnik posted:

anybody remember transmeta

their technology was pretty cool apart from the unfortunate aspect that it didn't actually do anything useful

transmeta was absolutely where everyone ought to have been by now

i went to internal talks from ex-transmeta folks at DTTC, it is a shame that CMS hasn't found a new niche yet

like every OoO optimization you've ever heard of is gear 0, the gears went up to 5

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?
someone had a Transmeta dev board for sale in the consignment room at Vintage Computer Festival West this year

there was also a Toshiba 286-based portable with a plasma screen and a sign saying it was like the gun turret computers in Aliens! (LOL those were GRiD Compass II model 1139 with electroluminescent screens)

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->

CRIP EATIN BREAD posted:

yeah git is so hard to use it hasn't gotten any traction in the industry, or in private projects

lol

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
it's me the guy who thinks adoption happens for technical reasons

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->
liking git is its own punishment for such a bad opinion

VikingofRock
Aug 24, 2008




stoked for pijul to hit 1.0 someday

comedyblissoption
Mar 15, 2006

is there something better than git's distributed immutable dag for programming source control

seems deece enough for me

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

tef posted:

it's me the guy who thinks adoption happens for technical reasons

you gotta satisfice on the technical reasons and the ruthless cutthroat competition happens for social reasons

git and mercurial and bazaar and darcs and fossil and poo poo all do the dvcs thing well, with varying crappiness of ui. dvcs is materially leaps and bounds better than rcs, cvs, tfs and svn, as a class. after that they fought like jackals on the social side and git won

Illusive Fuck Man
Jul 5, 2004
RIP John McCain feel better xoxo 💋 🙏
Taco Defender

comedyblissoption posted:

is there something better than git's distributed immutable dag for programming source control

seems deece enough for me

piper b*tch

tef
May 30, 2004

-> some l-system crap ->

bob dobbs is dead posted:

you gotta satisfice on the technical reasons and the ruthless cutthroat competition happens for social reasons

git and mercurial and bazaar and darcs and fossil and poo poo all do the dvcs thing well, with varying crappiness of ui. dvcs is materially leaps and bounds better than rcs, cvs, tfs and svn, as a class. after that they fought like jackals on the social side and git won

counter point: people had hacked up poo poo that git did for years

git was faster, sure, but if it wasn't for linus torvalds using it, we'd all be using mercurial

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akadajet
Sep 14, 2003


macos only lol

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