[Mafia] The Fifth Element

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > [Mafia] The Fifth Element

Anomalous Amalgam: Feb 13, 2015; by Nyc_Tattoo; Doctor Rope

Lumpen posted:

AA that is at least an honest case with reasonable points of suspicion. I think you're town, so is there anything you want me to rebut or explain?

I don't even disagree on your summary of the events, I just don't see how it amounts to your conclusion. Do you think yuming has been fair and reasonable in her casing of hambeet? Do you think merk has?

AA suspecting hambeet based on masonchat is an interesting development. If he's been scummy there, and you think he's scum, that tips the balance much more for me than anything yuming's said. I think those two are clearly not engaging in some kind of crazy cross-bussing, and either flipping scum would strongly tend to clear the other.

I'm not opposed to flipping hambeet today on the basis of the cop result and your mason doubt, if only to have the question resolved and more information to work with. I still think yuming's casing stinks, merks's boosting of it stinks, I'm expecting hambeet to flip Town Mason, but his absence wouldn't be a huge loss.

yuming/BK(Sal)/Kashuno/TMM(Tired Moritz) are all more likely to flip scum than hambeet in my opinion, taking everything into account.

To quote you loosely, "I don't engage with players I believe are scum."

# ? Sep 5, 2018 17:36

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 05:04

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

To quote you loosely, "I don't engage with players I believe are scum."

Wise words! Talk to you later then ☺️

# ? Sep 5, 2018 17:41

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

Speculation on how a player will react to a singular flip is top tier fake content

so yeah, beet or lumpen today.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 17:46

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

The only incentive to kill b-, other than his repertoire, is that he was in an unconfirmed mason, the only two people who knew this were myself and beet.

Reminder that Dancer was shot and listed first, and b- was "missing and presumed dead".

To me that suggests an SK kill of b- (Mr. Shadow or Great Evil I presume).
If hambeet were a scummason, b- would be a really stupid target for a scum nightkill, compared to trying to kill off an actual power role or SK. Why would they intentionally kill a member of an infiltrated masonry? If b-minus1 was indeed a scum nightkill then probably all the masons are town, I reason.

Not that Dancer makes sense for scum to target either, since he seemed pretty lynchable and there was no hint that he was a likely power role as far as I could see.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 17:53

yuming: Feb 26, 2008; dance dance dance

I can play Lumpens game for a moment here.

I can�t imagine hambeet flipping town. This is the strongest read I have had in the three games I�ve played recently.

If he did, I would be suspicious of merk. However, I am inclined to think merk is seeing the same scumminess I am.

When hambeet flips scum, I will be more suspicious of Lumpen.

Lumpen has courted voting hambeet a few times and they had their big back and forth at D2 start that gave me crazy vibes.

Tired Moritz also has some odd interactions on this hypothetical beet-Lumpen scumteam, but his content is stands alone as scummy I think.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 18:54

yuming: Feb 26, 2008; dance dance dance

Back to trying to schedule my students.

Is everyone having a nice day? I�m hoping for a nice sunny fall afternoon!

# ? Sep 5, 2018 18:55

yuming: Feb 26, 2008; dance dance dance

PS While it kinda goes without saying, I want to be explicit today: I agree with AAs post two thumbs up go town friends!

# ? Sep 5, 2018 18:58

SolusLunes: Oct 10, 2011; I now have several regrets.

Honestly the best case that yuming could have, and still show as town, is on me.

Of course, once she's called out on that, she starts pushing it harder (with a vote to boot).

I will admit that I have definitely not been posting (because this weekend has completely burned me out on talking to people, but I think I'm coming back around.)

I think that she's scum, but that's only because I know I'm town, and she's making a case out of mostly nothing (and admittedly, lovely lurkeriness).

--

Her point about me being dumb on D1 and acting like nothing should be taken seriously that day does make sense- on the other hand, this is the first game of SA mafs I've played with vanilla town roles. When there are power roles all over the place, I think it makes sense to wait for the first flip to start lynching.

Buuuuuuut this is a lot of vanilla, I'm thinking, from the flips so far. Including my own role.

Now that presents me with a different problem- I 'claimed' meat popsicle/cop immunity. This was a joke. I will come right out and say that, so that it can't be breadcrumbed by me, and poo poo, it's probably a liability to bring it up. So it is.

I'm just used to non-vanilla games.

All that said, even though I'm pretty drat sure that Yuming is scum, there is a more important thing this day:

1. Gaspy has a claimed non-town result for Hambeet.
2. If we lynch Beet, we've basically tested Gaspy- if beet flips 'shadow aligned', Gaspy's probably town, and an actual useful role. We might get a scum, or 3p.
3. If Beet flips town, we'll know to lynch Gaspy next. It'd be a stupid scum gambit to come out with a claimed cop result d2. He would get lynched accordingly.
4. Sure there's probably a bus driver. They might be one of the dead flips (probably Dancer but that's ~flavor reading~). There are also twenty-three players, 22 of which were available for night actioning. The odds of Gaspy getting driven are pretty low. Gaspy driven to scum are even lower. Not worth considering, when testing the theory has a much better chance of being useful.

So let's:
##vote beet

And if Beet is town, we can lynch Gaspy (or yuming, that'd be cool with me too)

# ? Sep 5, 2018 19:03

SolusLunes: Oct 10, 2011; I now have several regrets.

(though I guess to go after yuming if beet flips scum is assuming that yuming's bussed beet pretty thoroughly, pretty immediately)

# ? Sep 5, 2018 19:05

SolusLunes: Oct 10, 2011; I now have several regrets.

Kashuno posted:

Speculation on how a player will react to a singular flip is top tier fake content

so yeah, beet or lumpen today.

I wish I had a good read on lumpen (besides his dismissal of gaspy's claimed result on beet) because he's probably the highest content poster in this thread.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

There's a god damned claimed not-town result!

Seriously AA is on point and is pushing the single most important thing today.

Anybody dismissing it looks kinda scummy.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 19:13

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

yuming posted:

If he did, I would be suspicious of merk.

When hambeet flips scum, I will be more suspicious of Lumpen.

Okay, that's at least something down on the record, and it makes sense.

I note that you did not say that hambeet flipping town would implicate either Asphyxious or Anomalous Amalgam, which I think reflects well on you. Would you share any thoughts about how hambeet's flip possibilities would reflect on BK? Kashuno? KB? DB (who has voted and now unvoted hambeet)?

If hambeet flipped scum it would be absolutely reasonable to take a highly skeptical view of me. I can see how our interactions could definitely fit into a profile of scumbuddy distancing, and we have definitely flipped from mutual antagonism to comeraderie during D2, and I've been actively working to discredit (bad) cases against him.

All that being acknowledged, it is because based on the evidence, I think he's likely town and you're likely scum, yuming.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 19:15

SalTheBard: Jan 26, 2005; I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!; Fallen Rib

I didn't think it would be so hard to jump in on D2. Please give me some time to collect my thoughts. I'm about 3/4 of the way through D1

# ? Sep 5, 2018 19:18

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

Dick Bastardly posted:

##vote beet

I think gaspy is on to something

Dick Bastardly posted:

##unvote

Just getting back to it. I want to say that I'm not too interested in letting beet off so easy, I think the odds of gaspy actually getting redirected to scum are very low. But I am willing to give him (her?) another day to try and sort this mess out.

Dick Bastardly posted:

I think that's fair.

right now, barring the case I'd like to pursue, I'd vote any lurker (Hal, TNL, ASF)

I don't feel too strongly about anyone else to vote them (other than beet, but that's mainly to test gaspy's cop which I believe to be legit)

While typing the above response to yuming, I went back to look at DB's votes/unvotes.

And so, uhhh, Dick Bastardly in light of your last post quoted above why are you not voting hambeet right now? You say you believe the cop result, the odds that it was messed with are low, you think the result is legit, you say you do feel strongly enough about hambeet to vote him. But you're not. I find that weird. Explain.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 19:19

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

SolusLunes posted:

I'm pretty drat sure that Yuming is scum
...
So let's:
##vote beet
...
And if Beet is town, we can lynch Gaspy (or yuming, that'd be cool with me too)

# ? Sep 5, 2018 19:25

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

Solus probably town though

# ? Sep 5, 2018 19:26

Toalpaz: Mar 20, 2012; Peace through overwhelming determination

Lumpen posted:

You say this but if Hambeet pulls ahead I bet you jump on scummy scum scum.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 19:31

Toalpaz: Mar 20, 2012; Peace through overwhelming determination

Toalpaz posted:

You say this but if Hambeet pulls ahead I bet you jump on scummy scum scum.

Same with Gaspy.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 19:31

SolusLunes: Oct 10, 2011; I now have several regrets.

Lumpen posted:

look man just because I'm sure of one thing doesn't mean that it's not more important to do the other thing first

# ? Sep 5, 2018 19:32

SolusLunes: Oct 10, 2011; I now have several regrets.

Lumpen posted:

While typing the above response to yuming, I went back to look at DB's votes/unvotes.

And so, uhhh, Dick Bastardly in light of your last post quoted above why are you not voting hambeet right now? You say you believe the cop result, the odds that it was messed with are low, you think the result is legit, you say you do feel strongly enough about hambeet to vote him. But you're not. I find that weird. Explain.

There were only four and a half hours between the unvote and his most recent post. He did say he'd give hambeet a day to make his case, and the man has to sleep eventually.

You're fooling nobody, robot man. Humans do need to sleep, and you've forgotten this most important thing.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 19:38

SolusLunes: Oct 10, 2011; I now have several regrets.

SolusLunes posted:

There were only four and a half hours between the unvote and his most recent post. He did say he'd give hambeet a day to make his case, and the man has to sleep eventually.

You're fooling nobody, robot man. Humans do need to sleep, and you've forgotten this most important thing.

(of course if he comes back and then does not vote without a solid rationale it's worth remembering)

# ? Sep 5, 2018 19:41

Dick Bastardly: Aug 22, 2012; Muttley is SKYNET!!!

Lumpen posted:

While typing the above response to yuming, I went back to look at DB's votes/unvotes.

And so, uhhh, Dick Bastardly in light of your last post quoted above why are you not voting hambeet right now? You say you believe the cop result, the odds that it was messed with are low, you think the result is legit, you say you do feel strongly enough about hambeet to vote him. But you're not. I find that weird. Explain.

I want to stay true to letting beet have the day pending possible developments, but I think it highly likely those developments won't come and fully intend to vote beet.

Is that mafia faux-pa or...?

# ? Sep 5, 2018 20:11

The Ninth Layer: Jun 20, 2007

At the moment I'm struggling with who to trust. I feel better about yuming than I did yesterday and while I could see her as scum fronting, I also think she is posting against what I remember her scum meta to be. I also feel worse about Lumpen and don't entirely trust some of the reads and opinions he is offering or his strange reliance on flavor, however I can't deny his hustle.

I am kinda feeling the hambeet vote today above anything else, their play sorta reminds me of how they were playing in the recent Ecco game where they were scum. I also generally have good impressions of the people already voting that way.

##vote hambeet

# ? Sep 5, 2018 20:19

SolusLunes: Oct 10, 2011; I now have several regrets.

The Ninth Layer posted:

At the moment I'm struggling with who to trust. I feel better about yuming than I did yesterday and while I could see her as scum fronting, I also think she is posting against what I remember her scum meta to be. I also feel worse about Lumpen and don't entirely trust some of the reads and opinions he is offering or his strange reliance on flavor, however I can't deny his hustle.

I am kinda feeling the hambeet vote today above anything else, their play sorta reminds me of how they were playing in the recent Ecco game where they were scum. I also generally have good impressions of the people already voting that way.

##vote hambeet

Is meta your only argument? You don't have anything specific to go on?

I'm not trying to dissuade you from voting for beet, but I am concerned about your lack of posting, and the fact that when you do, and when you vote, it's with a real shaky justification.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 20:32

The Ninth Layer: Jun 20, 2007

SolusLunes posted:

Is meta your only argument? You don't have anything specific to go on?

I'm not trying to dissuade you from voting for beet, but I am concerned about your lack of posting, and the fact that when you do, and when you vote, it's with a real shaky justification.

My impression of him is he's just been very defensive and throwing mud to keep himself alive which I would find scummy regardless of his prior games, but the similarity makes me feel better about the suspicion.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 20:35

Hal Incandenza: Feb 12, 2004

Sorry friends I have been extremely sick the last couple days, I am mostly recovered now and catching up on the thread.

I have not completely caught up but the on/off push on yuming is strange to me, she seems like she's been pretty townie today.

I have to read Lumpen's more recent stuff, but my general opinion of his play has been that he hasn't been the bulldog he usually is as town and seems more willing than usual to let his opinion be shifted by other players.

I also need to parse the whole "shadow-aligned" and busdriver stuff that happened since it wasn't totally clear to me in medicine-induced haze

# ? Sep 5, 2018 20:35

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Kashuno posted:

Considering I made a serious vote on both lumpen and beet I�m getting really pissy at people claiming I�m not playing because my posts are not 1000 words

Sorry about this. I'm just used to much more from you, but what I did here is exactly what I got upset about that made me change my meta. I looked back over what you posted, and you have indeed contributed.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 20:41

Anomalous Amalgam: Feb 13, 2015; by Nyc_Tattoo; Doctor Rope

King Burgundy posted:

Sorry about this. I'm just used to much more from you, but what I did here is exactly what I got upset about that made me change my meta. I looked back over what you posted, and you have indeed contributed.

Which you have to admit is a bit funny because it seems like we're a in a new golden era of mafia where players actually make big wall posts even if 30-50% is quotes.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 20:44

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Which you have to admit is a bit funny because it seems like we're a in a new golden era of mafia where players actually make big wall posts even if 30-50% is quotes.

Hah, yeah, maybe, but I think maybe it is still just a few people. And we still have tons of folks who aren't doing much.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 20:47

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

If it comes down to Beet or Yuming tonight, I'll be voting Beet.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 20:49

Hal Incandenza: Feb 12, 2004

King Burgundy posted:

Hah, yeah, maybe, but I think maybe it is still just a few people. And we still have tons of folks who aren't doing much.

I'm trying here, I just need to get through this soup

# ? Sep 5, 2018 21:11

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Hal Incandenza posted:

I'm trying here, I just need to get through this soup

Get well!

# ? Sep 5, 2018 21:17

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

Votecount for Day 2

hambeet (6): Asphyxious, Lumpen, King Burgundy, merk, Dick Bastardly, ~~Lumpen~~, ~~Asphyxious~~, yuming, Kashuno, ~~King Burgundy~~, ~~merk~~, merk, ~~merk~~, merk, ~~Dick Bastardly~~, ~~yuming~~, Toalpaz, Anomalous Amalgam, ~~Anomalous Amalgam~~, Anomalous Amalgam, SolusLunes, The Ninth Layer

yuming (4): Mr. Humalong, Lumpen, Asphyxious, hambeet

Mr. Humalong (1): imgay

Tired Moritz (1): King Burgundy, merk, ~~merk~~

SolusLunes (1): yuming

Toalpaz (1): Tired Moritz

The Ninth Layer (0): Lumpen, ~~Lumpen~~

GenericGirlName (0): Lumpen, ~~Lumpen~~

merk (0): Kashuno, ~~Kashuno~~, Anomalous Amalgam, hambeet, ~~Anomalous Amalgam~~, ~~hambeet~~, hambeet, ~~hambeet~~

Asphyxious (0): Toalpaz, ~~Toalpaz~~

Lumpen (0): Kashuno, Anomalous Amalgam, Toalpaz, ~~Anomalous Amalgam~~, ~~Toalpaz~~, ~~Kashuno~~, Anomalous Amalgam, ~~Anomalous Amalgam~~

Kashuno (0): merk, ~~merk~~

Not Voting (6): A Sometimes Food, ArbitraryC, Dick Bastardly, GenericGirlName, Hal Incandenza, SalTheBard

With 20 alive, it's 11 votes to execute. The current deadline is September 05^th, 2018 at 11 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 6 hours.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 21:59

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

It's the last 6 hours of the day, time to get in your would-votes

I'd vote yuming, Kashuno, SalTheBard, Tired Moritz, A Sometimes Food, or G. G. N.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 22:05

Mr. Humalong: May 7, 2007

##unvote

Unvoting for now, looking over the last few pages again.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 22:23

Hal Incandenza: Feb 12, 2004

Lumpen posted:

It's the last 6 hours of the day, time to get in your would-votes

I'd vote yuming, Kashuno, SalTheBard, Tired Moritz, A Sometimes Food, or G. G. N.

I'd vote beet, TM, Lumpen, probably Sal (he's said some weird stuff since replacing in and his predecessor wasn't great) comfortably, I'm still catching up on another 100 or so posts so maybe it will change a bit

# ? Sep 5, 2018 22:27

Hal Incandenza: Feb 12, 2004

SalTheBard posted:

I didn't think it would be so hard to jump in on D2. Please give me some time to collect my thoughts. I'm about 3/4 of the way through D1

I usually find I have my best reads when I replace into a game once I get caught up. Of course that only helps if you are town.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 22:32

Anomalous Amalgam: Feb 13, 2015; by Nyc_Tattoo; Doctor Rope

Hal Incandenza posted:

I'd vote beet, TM, Lumpen, probably Sal (he's said some weird stuff since replacing in and his predecessor wasn't great) comfortably, I'm still catching up on another 100 or so posts so maybe it will change a bit

I don't think your vote against Sal(BK) works unless you also simultaneously think that BK had been making a poor attempt to bus beet.

This looks fake.

I would still vote you, 100%

# ? Sep 5, 2018 22:33

Anomalous Amalgam: Feb 13, 2015; by Nyc_Tattoo; Doctor Rope

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I don't think your vote against Sal(BK) works unless you also simultaneously think that BK had been making a poor attempt to bus beet.

This looks fake.

I would still vote you, 100%

Granted you're riding the dissociative lightning of cold medicine... soooo.... :thunk:

# ? Sep 5, 2018 22:34

Hal Incandenza: Feb 12, 2004

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I don't think your vote against Sal(BK) works unless you also simultaneously think that BK had been making a poor attempt to bus beet.

This looks fake.

I would still vote you, 100%

But wait we don't know that beet is scum. Are you saying I can't have two people I think are scum in the same list if one being scum would make it less likely the other was? It's not like I posted a definitive list of who I was sure was scum, I posted a list of people I was suspicious enough to consider voting.

Also I had no idea you would vote me, I must have missed that post. Although I feel like your default position going into every game is that you would vote me 100%

# ? Sep 5, 2018 22:42

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 05:04

Hal Incandenza: Feb 12, 2004

Can someone clarify if I have this correct? Gaspy, who is not a cop, got a shadow-aligned result on beet. For reasons I can't recall someone thinks there is a good possibility of a busdriver (who I guess would likely have driven beet?) or is that just random speculation? I can't seem to figure out where that started.

# ? Sep 5, 2018 22:45

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > [Mafia] The Fifth Element

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