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unattended spaghetti
May 10, 2013

pospysyl posted:

What are some good horror novels that deal with institutions? I'm thinking of schools, corporations, or other organizations with strict hierarchies and rules. Authority from the Area X trilogy would count, as would the darker parts of Kafka's The Trial. I'm also looking to check out Andres Barba's Such Small Hands, which is about a girl's orphanage.

How about The Devil in Silver by Victor LaValle? A man is admitted to a psych ward and has to navigate the institution itself while enduring what may or may not be a hallucinated malignant presence. It's just as much about the facility and patients as it is about the horror.

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ravenkult
Feb 3, 2011


Franchescanado posted:

Are there any good horror books/stories with about people forced into a survival-of-the-fittest/kill-or-be-killed anarchy game?


It's not good at all, but if you're desperate Smooth Worn Stone kicks off a book series about a cave where they kinda sorta do a Battle Royale thing. Trigger warnings for rape though.

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012



Skyscraper posted:

Well, would you consider the work sites and town management in Thomas Ligotti's stories to be this kind of thing?

chernobyl kinsman posted:

thomas ligotti's my work is not yet done

I've only read Ligotti's "The Town Manager" and I enjoyed it quite a bit, but I'm not aware of his other work. It's definitely worth looking into!

grobbo posted:

I don't think he ever quite strays into horror, but since you mentioned Kafka - Kobo Abe's books often feature a hapless hero trying to navigate a mysterious institution with its own set of bizarre and unbreakable rules (The Woman In The Dunes, but also Secret Rendezvous and Kangaroo Notebook)

This sounds really interesting too! I might have given the wrong impression when I mentioned Kafka and Vandemeer. I'm hoping to find something more visceral, but I do like the surreality of those and Ligotti.

BurningBeard posted:

How about The Devil in Silver by Victor LaValle? A man is admitted to a psych ward and has to navigate the institution itself while enduring what may or may not be a hallucinated malignant presence. It's just as much about the facility and patients as it is about the horror.

This sounds right on target!

Franchescanado posted:

Are there any good horror books/stories with about people forced into a survival-of-the-fittest/kill-or-be-killed anarchy game?

Obvious choices are Battle Royale, Lord of the Flies, and films like The Belko Experiment.

The Barba book Such Small Hands I mentioned before is about girls at an orphanage playing weird, violent games with one another. I haven't read it, so I don't know if it actually develops into a survival scenario, but it does have the violent game in a confined setting. The Troop by Cutter doesn't have a game, but it's about a Boy Scout troop in a violent survival situation on a deserted island.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
I've read The Troop, and that has some of what I'm looking for, but only with like one character.

Bilirubin
Feb 16, 2014

The sanctioned action is to CHUG


pospysyl posted:

What are some good horror novels that deal with institutions? I'm thinking of schools, corporations, or other organizations with strict hierarchies and rules. Authority from the Area X trilogy would count, as would the darker parts of Kafka's The Trial. I'm also looking to check out Andres Barba's Such Small Hands, which is about a girl's orphanage.

20 Days of Turin has a mysterious library, and is worth reading

Skyscraper
Oct 1, 2004

Hurry Up, We're Dreaming



pospysyl posted:

I've only read Ligotti's "The Town Manager" and I enjoyed it quite a bit, but I'm not aware of his other work. It's definitely worth looking into!
I liked the collection that story was in, Teatro Grottesco. He has a number of stories about employment and order that were really good but maybe not what you were going for. Chernobyl nailed it, that that book is actually three stories, and at least two of them are exactly what you asked for.

Would you consider the Three-Body Problem scifi horror? It spooked me more than Southern Reach but I don't know if it's what you want. Either way, it's worth a read, because it is excellent.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Franchescanado posted:

Are there any good horror books/stories with about people forced into a survival-of-the-fittest/kill-or-be-killed anarchy game?

Obvious choices are Battle Royale, Lord of the Flies, and films like The Belko Experiment.


I've only seen the film, but I consider it essential watching for horror fans, despite Polanski being a rapist.

The Long Walk by King isn't quite what you're looking for.

If you want a movie, Series 7: The Contenders is your man. It's massively better than Battle Royale and stars the girl from the pit in Silence of the Lambs.

Conrad_Birdie
Jul 10, 2009
I think it was someone in this thread that recommended I'm Thinking of Ending Things. Couldn't put it down, finished it in a couple hours; it was a wave of relief after being supremely disappointed in a book that I had been looking forward to reading ended up being a pretentious slog. But I had no expectations going in to ITOET, and it knocked me off my feet. One of the best novels I've read this year.

Conrad_Birdie fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Aug 30, 2018

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Conrad_Birdie posted:

I think it was someone in this thread that recommended I'm Thinking of Ending Things. Couldn't put it down, finished it in a couple hours, it was a wave of relief after being supremely disappointed over a book I had been looking forward to reading turned out to be a pretentious slog. But I had no expectations going in, and it knocked me off my feet. One of the best novels I've read this year.

That was probably me. Still one of my favorite books I've read this year.

chernobyl kinsman
Mar 18, 2007

a friend of the friendly atom

Soiled Meat
does i'm thinking of ending things have any supernatural elements or is it all psychological

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

chernobyl kinsman posted:

does i'm thinking of ending things have any supernatural elements or is it all psychological

I don't want to answer this, because it's part of the "mystery"

Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Aug 30, 2018

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
To clarify, it is kept vague throughout the book whether it's supernatural or psychological, so to reveal it kinda spoils an aspect I really enjoyed.

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012



Conrad_Birdie posted:

I think it was someone in this thread that recommended I'm Thinking of Ending Things. Couldn't put it down, finished it in a couple hours; it was a wave of relief after being supremely disappointed in a book that I had been looking forward to reading ended up being a pretentious slog. But I had no expectations going in to ITOET, and it knocked me off my feet. One of the best novels I've read this year.

I just finished it too! It's a super engaging read, and I liked it well enough. There was a little frustration during the first half waiting for the book to get on it, but it does pay off. The conversations are pretentious, I suppose, but they're pretentious characters and it's passably interesting. I imagine they also reward a re-read with the ending in mind, but I just don't have the attachment to the characters that would prompt me to do that.

A major criticism: I thought the introduction gave away the game too early. It read more like suicidal ideation than someone planning a break-up, and although the book does a good job of getting you back on track, the asides also kind of hint at a suicide too early. It doesn't give away the exact twist, but I wasn't as worried about the girl as I should have been.

It reminded me a little of Emily Fridlund's History of Wolves, which isn't about wolves, but does have similar themes of isolation, misanthropy, and memory. It's more of a thriller than ITOET, but it gets similarly intense.

chernobyl kinsman posted:

does i'm thinking of ending things have any supernatural elements or is it all psychological

Mild, non-specific spoiler: It has supernatural imagery and has a spooky tone. There's no monster. It's more horror than thriller, I'd say.

pospysyl fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Aug 31, 2018

Conrad_Birdie
Jul 10, 2009

pospysyl posted:

I just finished it too! It's a super engaging read, and I liked it well enough. There was a little frustration during the first half waiting for the book to get on it, but it does pay off. The conversations are pretentious, I suppose, but they're pretentious characters and it's passably interesting. I imagine they also reward a re-read with the ending in mind, but I just don't have the attachment to the characters that would prompt me to do that.

A major criticism: I thought the introduction gave away the game too early. It read more like suicidal ideation than someone planning a break-up, and although the book does a good job of getting you back on track, the asides also kind of hint at a suicide too early. It doesn't give away the exact twist, but I wasn't as worried about the girl as I should have been.

It reminded me a little of Emily Fridlund's History of Wolves, which isn't about wolves, but does have similar themes of isolation, misanthropy, and memory. It's more of a thriller than ITOET, but it gets similarly intense.


Mild, non-specific spoiler: It has supernatural imagery and has a spooky tone. There's no monster. It's more horror than thriller, I'd say.

What's so funny about the title/introduction knowing nothing about the book before I went in, I actually immediately assumed the title was in reference to killing one's self. Maybe I've just got a sad brain. It wasn't until I started reading that I went, "Oh sure, I guess it could also be about ending a relationship." But no, my original interpretation was right hahaha So, it worked well enough for me. The characters were pretentious, but in a realistic, conversational way. It was also waaaay more realistic and less pretentious than the book I had just finished, so I was thankful for that.

Tiny Timbs
Sep 6, 2008

Conrad_Birdie posted:

I think it was someone in this thread that recommended I'm Thinking of Ending Things. Couldn't put it down, finished it in a couple hours; it was a wave of relief after being supremely disappointed in a book that I had been looking forward to reading ended up being a pretentious slog. But I had no expectations going in to ITOET, and it knocked me off my feet. One of the best novels I've read this year.

I also enjoyed the book quite a bit, but only after I was done (if that makes sense). Until then I was busy puzzling out why their interactions seemed so off-putting until everything clicked when they got to his parents' house.

It was a pretty good chaser after the insanely stupid, awesome 80s-movie book The Shaft

unattended spaghetti
May 10, 2013

Conrad_Birdie posted:

What's so funny about the title/introduction knowing nothing about the book before I went in, I actually immediately assumed the title was in reference to killing one's self. Maybe I've just got a sad brain. It wasn't until I started reading that I went, "Oh sure, I guess it could also be about ending a relationship." But no, my original interpretation was right hahaha So, it worked well enough for me. The characters were pretentious, but in a realistic, conversational way. It was also waaaay more realistic and less pretentious than the book I had just finished, so I was thankful for that.

I had the sane thought you did. I love that ambiguity though. I think that's one of the things that makes it so engaging.

I didn't think the dialog was pretentious at all though.

I just saw it as a symptom of a guy who's just far too deep in his head. The female persona came across sincere and bewildered to me. If you want to get reductive about it, the male half was the thinking half and the narrator was the feeling half. But I understand your take. It does meander and ponder for the first half. Also if I ever see the phrase what are you waiting for one more time I swear to God I'll flip poo poo.

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012



The imaginary girlfriend was very well done. The fantasy manic pixie dream girl aspects are obvious in retrospect (constantly asking for definitions of only somewhat difficult vocabulary words was a nice touch), but it was subtle enough that the relationship was actually believable.

this broken hill
Apr 10, 2018

by Lowtax
based on my impression of ligotti, at no point did i assume the title wasn't referring to suicide lol

(after getting burnt a few times on horror recs, i've made up my mind with great deliberation to spend money on ligotti next)

Conrad_Birdie
Jul 10, 2009
Just finished "The Grip of It," which was another quick read recommended by this thread. Another good one. I liked the structure of the novel. It very much felt like if the author decided to turn the Mountain Goats album "Tallahassee" into an actual horror story. I don't usually comment on this board, but I'm a constant lurker whose "to read" list is often informed by the threads here, so thanks everyone for putting books onto my radar I'd probably never read on my own.

chernobyl kinsman
Mar 18, 2007

a friend of the friendly atom

Soiled Meat

Conrad_Birdie posted:

It very much felt like if the author decided to turn the Mountain Goats album "Tallahassee" into an actual horror story.

lol that's actually a solid description of it. have you read john darnielle's universal harvester? its not horror but it is haunting

Conrad_Birdie
Jul 10, 2009

chernobyl kinsman posted:

lol that's actually a solid description of it. have you read john darnielle's universal harvester? its not horror but it is haunting

I would be...surprised if the author wasn't a fan/aware of the album. What really set off my alarms was the reoccurring motif of the peacock on the wall, which is one of the animals explicitly referenced in a song on that album.

I've read Wolf in White Van which, much like I'm Thinking of Ending Things, is one of the few books that made me immediately start re-reading it the moment I finished it.

Drunken Baker
Feb 3, 2015

VODKA STYLE DRINK
About a quarter into CORPSEPAINT by David Peak and if you're a fan of metal I'd say pick it up. No idea what happens, went in blind, but the idea of a Black Metal band producing a new album in the middle of nowhere in Eastern Europe should be familiar with you. There's not been much supernatural dread or horror up to now, but the characters are strong and you just know things are going to go south hard.

Speaking of things getting hosed up in the woods, I shelved "Kill Hill Carnage" to read this one. It's a splatter book about mutants ripping people to shreds at a camp ground, but I found the action to be a little lacking. But I'm a sick gently caress so maybe I was just expecting too much.

A human heart
Oct 10, 2012

Drunken Baker posted:

About a quarter into CORPSEPAINT by David Peak and if you're a fan of metal I'd say pick it up. No idea what happens, went in blind, but the idea of a Black Metal band producing a new album in the middle of nowhere in Eastern Europe should be familiar with you. There's not been much supernatural dread or horror up to now, but the characters are strong and you just know things are going to go south hard.

lol the book is about a black metal band from chicago going to ukraine to record an album, how false can you get?

Drunken Baker
Feb 3, 2015

VODKA STYLE DRINK
loving posers.

A human heart
Oct 10, 2012

Drunken Baker posted:

loving posers.

please don't entry unless you want to be burned and died

Doctor Faustine
Sep 2, 2018
Does anyone have good recommendations for folk horror novels or short stories, or any that are based on folk tales or fairy tales? I love folklore and fairy tales and it's always fun for me to see how writers play with those themes in fiction. I really enjoyed The Bloody Chamber by Angela Carter and The Book of Lost Things by John Connolly (as well as many of his short stories), so anything in that vein I'd probably enjoy. I also love folk horror movies like The Witch, The Wicker Man, and Kill List, to give a broader sense of what I'm after.

ravenkult
Feb 3, 2011


Nevill's The Ritual.

Doctor Faustine
Sep 2, 2018

ravenkult posted:

Nevill's The Ritual.

How's the book compare to the movie? I thought the movie was pretty solid.

ravenkult
Feb 3, 2011


Doctor Faustine posted:

How's the book compare to the movie? I thought the movie was pretty solid.

First half better, second part worse.

chernobyl kinsman
Mar 18, 2007

a friend of the friendly atom

Soiled Meat

ravenkult posted:

First half better, second part worse.

overall not great

Drunken Baker
Feb 3, 2015

VODKA STYLE DRINK
I'm still wary of reading that because I loved the film so much.

ravenkult
Feb 3, 2011


Now that I'm not on the phone: I loved the first part of The Ritual and was really disappointed in the other half. I thought it was pretty terrifying and tightly written. The movie I liked a lot less, as it did the usual ''bunch of dudes lost in the woods'' cliches that the book didn't rely on as much. So yeah, first part, heaps better than the movie counterpart. The other half though is goofy as heck in the book but was significantly punched up in the movie.

A while back I wrote this about folk horror: https://litreactor.com/columns/five-great-folk-horror-novels

Save you a click, I mention:

"The Great God Pan" by Arthur Machen
"We Will All Go Down Together" by Gemma Files
"The Loney' by Andrew Michael Hurley
"Ritual" by Adam Nevill
"Boy's Life" by Robert McCammon (debatable)

and from the comments, people suggested:
Matthew M. Bartlett's GATEWAYS TO ABOMINATION
Thomas Tryon's Harvest Home
Peter Ackroyd's First Light
T. E. D. Klein's The Ceremonies
Christopher Buehlman's Those Across The River

Ornamented Death
Jan 25, 2006

Pew pew!

I feel like I missed something with The Loney. It's not a bad book, necessarily, but it didn't really strike me as a horror novel. Just...kind of melancholy with a touch of weirdness.

chernobyl kinsman
Mar 18, 2007

a friend of the friendly atom

Soiled Meat
it's good and it's definitely a horror novel, even a folk horror novel. not everything has to have actual monsters in it or whatever

sicDaniel
May 10, 2009
Just finished Adam Neville's Last Days, I also read The Ritual a month ago. My thoughts: The Ritual is really good, a bit better than the movie. I know that the second half is really hit or miss for people who read it. I liked it because it was so strange and unexpected and it's cool that Neville decided to go this route instead of doing the more obvious and cliche conclusion, which the film does. What I didn't like so much was how Neville pretty much incapacitates his protagonist for the entire second half, so he's just lying there most of the time listening to his kidnappers expository monologue for dozens and dozens of pages without end.

Now, Last Days is difficult. I am a huge sucker for found footage films so the approach in this novel is right up my alley, and the first half of the novel is among the best stuff I've read this year. But here Neville forgot to include something interesting for the second half (felt like he ran out of ideas) which imo was really bad. Like in The Ritul, but worse. The entire last third of the book is Kyle being very scared and/or confused while the scholar in Antwerpen and then Max absolutely drown him in expository monologue about the real real truth of the cult, which was sadly underdeveloped being presented in this way, and then the last 50 pages it's suddenly Aliens.

Ornamented Death
Jan 25, 2006

Pew pew!

chernobyl kinsman posted:

it's good and it's definitely a horror novel, even a folk horror novel. not everything has to have actual monsters in it or whatever

A horror novel should have some element of horror in it. The Loney doesn't, unless you get extremely generous with what you define as horror.

I guess what I'm saying is that The Loney is a good book but a bad horror novel.

chernobyl kinsman
Mar 18, 2007

a friend of the friendly atom

Soiled Meat

Ornamented Death posted:

A horror novel should have some element of horror in it. The Loney doesn't, unless you get extremely generous with what you define as horror.

I guess what I'm saying is that The Loney is a good book but a bad horror novel.

do you not count the rituals surrounding the supernatural nightmare child who seems to be able to absorb the sins or illnesses of others into itself, or what

its a very subtle and slow novel which relies heavily on the haunting and desolate atmosphere it tries to build so if you dont like those things i can see why you wouldn't like it, but to say its not a horror novel because its not overt enough is silly

chernobyl kinsman fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Sep 6, 2018

Ornamented Death
Jan 25, 2006

Pew pew!

chernobyl kinsman posted:

do you not count the rituals surrounding the supernatural nightmare child who seems to be able to absorb the sins or illnesses of others into itself, or what

its a very subtle and slow novel which relies heavily on the haunting and desolate atmosphere it tries to build so if you dont like those things i can see why you wouldn't like it, but to say its not a horror novel because its not overt enough is silly

The circumstances around that didn't seem horrific to me, just, as I said, melancholy and weird. To each their own. I do think it's a good book, for what it's worth.

DrVenkman
Dec 28, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.
Yeah THE RITUAL is an odd one. The first half of it works fairly well and the second half...doesn't. It kinda felt like reading something by Joe R Lansdale but without the same talent.

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Spite
Jul 27, 2001

Small chance of that...

sicDaniel posted:

Just finished Adam Neville's Last Days, I also read The Ritual a month ago. My thoughts: The Ritual is really good, a bit better than the movie. I know that the second half is really hit or miss for people who read it. I liked it because it was so strange and unexpected and it's cool that Neville decided to go this route instead of doing the more obvious and cliche conclusion, which the film does. What I didn't like so much was how Neville pretty much incapacitates his protagonist for the entire second half, so he's just lying there most of the time listening to his kidnappers expository monologue for dozens and dozens of pages without end.

Now, Last Days is difficult. I am a huge sucker for found footage films so the approach in this novel is right up my alley, and the first half of the novel is among the best stuff I've read this year. But here Neville forgot to include something interesting for the second half (felt like he ran out of ideas) which imo was really bad. Like in The Ritul, but worse. The entire last third of the book is Kyle being very scared and/or confused while the scholar in Antwerpen and then Max absolutely drown him in expository monologue about the real real truth of the cult, which was sadly underdeveloped being presented in this way, and then the last 50 pages it's suddenly Aliens.

I really enjoyed the Last Days but I get what you mean.
Last Days felt like He had a couple good ideas for 'set pieces' and then had to come up with a way to end it. The problem for me is that the set pieces basically require you to know nothing about what's going on. And so he can't reveal the backstory slowly and you end up with giant exposition dumps. I liked the aliens ending but it feels like it comes out of another draft and he really wanted to keep it (including a brand new character that dies shortly after).

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