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Here's what I've been able to find in terms of Zack Snyder actually talking about his relationship to the book:Hollywood Reporter, 2016 posted:Given all your involvements, do you have time to develop anything outside of this? A very short aside about his relationship with its themes of having control of one's own art. It's a bit much to extrapolate an entire political ideology from this one statement, though I'd say it shows he's got bad taste in prose.
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Sep 7, 2018 03:43
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Saying you are willing to talk about movies as long as they don’t talk about subtext is a hell of a statement. Like what would you discuss just the plot?
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Sep 7, 2018 03:52
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Doctor Spaceman posted:And even then in The Incredibles the government is presented as well-meaning and sometimes helpful while the self-made man is the villain . Not to mention the soulless, capitalist boss of Bob's insurance company is portrayed as being an obstacle in the way of justice.
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Sep 7, 2018 03:55
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Darth Walrus posted:What about Snyder’s work is clearly satirical, though? Verhoeven undermines his fascist premise through dark, absurd humour, while Snyder’s films seem rather more straight-faced.
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Sep 7, 2018 03:56
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Ghostlight posted:lmbo that you think Verhoeven's work is "clearly" satirical. yeah didn't a bunch of dipshit critics hate starship troopers because the satire was completely and utterly lost on their dumb asses
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Sep 7, 2018 04:04
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:yeah didn't a bunch of dipshit critics hate starship troopers because the satire was completely and utterly lost on their dumb asses They didn't want to know more.
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Sep 7, 2018 04:04
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Arcsquad12 posted:People who talk about Incredibles as an endorsement of objectivism always seem to forget that Syndrome is a loving murderer. TBF his whole speech about giving the world his tech with the whole echoing of "If everyone is special no one is" does give the film some Great Man vibes but that doesn't mean you can ignore his self-made ness and call the film objectivitist.
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Sep 7, 2018 04:05
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There's also how the good guys in The Incredibles are all altruistic and the villains are all selfish pricks. I know that's like the most basic of basics in storytelling, but selfishness is Ayn Rand's whole philosophy, she even wrote a book about it. On topic, watch Renegade Cut's video on the movie
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Sep 7, 2018 04:13
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CharlestheHammer posted:Saying you are willing to talk about movies as long as they don’t talk about subtext is a hell of a statement. I don't see anyone talking about subtext here. Just a bunch of nonsense making huge leaps of logic trying to make out a guy to be some kind of idiot who doesn't know what he's doing and not the actual subtext or text of the films under scrutiny here. Besides that, every time this stuff gets brought up [the board that shan't be mentioned] always get called a bunch of weirdos for reading into films too much or some silliness like that.
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Sep 7, 2018 04:29
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you're not weirdos for reading into films you're weirdos for watching nothing but movies for 13 year old boys as a bunch of alcoholics in their 30s
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Sep 7, 2018 04:35
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Jimbot posted:I don't see anyone talking about subtext here. Just a bunch of nonsense making huge leaps of logic trying to make out a guy to be some kind of idiot who doesn't know what he's doing and not the actual subtext or text of the films under scrutiny here. Besides that, every time this stuff gets brought up [the board that shan't be mentioned] always get called a bunch of weirdos for reading into films too much or some silliness like that. Your politics usually make up the bulk of subtext. You just don’t like what’s being discussed,there is a difference.
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Sep 7, 2018 04:36
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Alacron posted:There's also how the good guys in The Incredibles are all altruistic and the villains are all selfish pricks. I know that's like the most basic of basics in storytelling, but selfishness is Ayn Rand's whole philosophy, she even wrote a book about it. The mere act of saving other people does not make you an altruist anymore than buying yourself a candy bar makes you an Objectivist. Objectivism explicitly states that the individual must take priority, but it does not dictate how that takes place - if part of your self-identity is that you gain satisfaction from spending your wealth (or power) on others then you must not deny that part of your identity even though superficially it stands in opposition to the idea of 'Selfishness' as it is understood by many people. These are the motivations in play in The Incredibles - Mr Incredible firstly by pride in himself then anger with Syndrome, Elastigirl by her desire for a stable family, and the children by their dependence on the family unit.
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Sep 7, 2018 05:04
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Does there exist some sort of inverse to the idea of 'Death of the Author', where it's instead pointing out critics who are just projecting their own obsessions and faults onto a film that can only tenuously be linked to topics brought up in a critique?Neddy Seagoon posted:They didn't want to know more. 
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Sep 7, 2018 05:35
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Alacron posted:There's also how the good guys in The Incredibles are all altruistic and the villains are all selfish pricks. I know that's like the most basic of basics in storytelling, but selfishness is Ayn Rand's whole philosophy, she even wrote a book about it. Of course , that's how the movie frames our protagonist. The problem of objectivist isn't that they are selfish, it's that they believe what's materialy good for them is what's good for society. It's anti collectivist. Say if Trump started universal free healthcare because he hated the insurance industry. It's still a good thing for millions of people, even if it's a terrible person doing it for the wrong reasons. Also the language of "Altruism" has just been co-opted by big corporations anyway. If only government and regulations would stop restraining the supers from reaching there full potential we could truly make america great again. Alacron posted:There's also how the good guys in The Incredibles are all altruistic and the villains are all selfish pricks. I know that's like the most basic of basics in storytelling, but selfishness is Ayn Rand's whole philosophy, she even wrote a book about it. Ok let me put it this way, does being a cop make you an altruistic person? Because as far as the movie explains it that's all the incredibles are about. I don't remember them saying why they do it other than they just like the job. The movie isn't about Altruism it's about being special or, more accurately, superior. Syndrome and the manlet insurance manager aren't bad because they're greedy capitalist, that's just a byproduct of their main flaw, they are bad because they don't know there place. Edna Mode is basically Elon Musk and Anna Wintour combined and she's not only good, but voiced by Brad Bird himself.
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Sep 7, 2018 06:16
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CharlestheHammer posted:Your politics usually make up the bulk of subtext. You just don’t like what’s being discussed,there is a difference. And the subtext of his films don't support any of that. I don't go in with confirmation bias and twist the subtext to create a monster of a person based off of popular consensus. The guy has always had the moniker of "fratboy dudebro" that has evolved into a "fascist objectivist". So going into his film, because I have to review it, I'm seeing it through the lens of an idiot who doesn't understand anything and it's all bad.
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Sep 7, 2018 06:38
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When Death of the Author was formulated, Roland Barthes famously specifically wrote a 'but Zack Snyder is just bad' clause, preventing further thought on the topic in the minds of film critics and liberal youtubers who, just happen, just keep in the back of your mind, just happen, to think the films the snyderverse is criticising are the next sistine chapel
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Sep 7, 2018 07:22
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OmanyteJackson posted:Syndrome and the manlet insurance manager aren't bad because they're greedy capitalist, that's just a byproduct of their main flaw, they are bad because they don't know there place. Edna Mode is basically Elon Musk and Anna Wintour combined and she's not only good, but voiced by Brad Bird himself. Edna was originally to be voiced by Lily Tomlinson, but she suggested the placeholder voice by Bird was already good. Nobody gave a poo poo out about Musk 14 years ago because no one had heard of him.
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Sep 7, 2018 07:37
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You guys are Death Note fans, right? The other night me and my Bro watched the film and I liked it. I dunno why they didn't just put Willam Defore in makeup, maybe he enjoyed the Beyond Two Souls experience, whatever. At the end my bro and I started chatting about what Light's dad would do and if L actually wrote something and then the whole conversation died because the movie started showing outtakes and Pre-Production SFX shots and I wound upyelling at the screen like"WTF are you doing, movie? You just killed your own atmosphere you just spend the last 90 mins making! Idiot!" Anyway - tell me why the film is bad and stuff. Content: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbJVd5C8OU0
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Sep 7, 2018 07:38
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KayTee posted:You guys are Death Note fans, right? The other night me and my Bro watched the film and I liked it. I dunno why they didn't just put Willam Defore in makeup, maybe he enjoyed the Beyond Two Souls experience, whatever. If you like the Netflix version and want more Death Note, the Japanese live-action movie duology is a great adaptation of the best parts of the manga.
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Sep 7, 2018 07:43
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When I think of Death of the Author, I just think of that one guy on CD who kept doubling down on how Get Out wasn't about racism.
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Sep 7, 2018 08:13
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Edna was originally to be voiced by Lily Tomlinson, but she suggested the placeholder voice by Bird was already good. Nobody gave a poo poo out about Musk 14 years ago because no one had heard of him. okay... what? I think you misunderstood what I was saying about Edna. She's Also a lovely capitalist but the movie frames her as a good person because she sells what basically equates to wearable missile defence systems to super powered PMCs.
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Sep 7, 2018 08:19
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KayTee posted:Anyway - tell me why the film is bad and stuff. The Netflix Deathnote movie is telling more or less the same story as the anime/manga just without narrative buying into Light's bullshit, and attributing things to luck instead of Light's supposed brilliance.
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Sep 7, 2018 08:33
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The american Death Note is interesting because you can tell the creators both respected the source material and wanted to make something different. It's bad, but I can see a good 10 episode mini series in there if they gave the characters more room to breath.
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Sep 7, 2018 08:41
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Jimbot posted:And the subtext of his films don't support any of that. I don't go in with confirmation bias and twist the subtext to create a monster of a person based off of popular consensus. The guy has always had the moniker of "fratboy dudebro" that has evolved into a "fascist objectivist". So going into his film, because I have to review it, I'm seeing it through the lens of an idiot who doesn't understand anything and it's all bad. It’s adorable you think you are immune to confirmation bias but I this this convo proves that kind of false.
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Sep 7, 2018 09:00
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Hbomberguy posted:When Death of the Author was formulated, Roland Barthes famously specifically wrote a 'but Zack Snyder is just bad' clause, preventing further thought on the topic in the minds of film critics and liberal youtubers who, just happen, just keep in the back of your mind, just happen, to think the films the snyderverse is criticising are the next sistine chapel Kind of morbid to use DotA when the literal author is still alive, though. 
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Sep 7, 2018 09:42
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tim burton did bad fascist batman better to be honest
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Sep 7, 2018 09:46
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business hammocks posted:I don’t think 300 is a joke. I don’t think Snyder is bad and I don’t think he knows, but it’s just kind of in there, pushing against what he’s pretty sure he believes. 300 is in-universe propaganda. It's basically a retelling of the events by a person who wasn't even there for most of it. Hence, the fire-breathing Persians and other nonsense. It's probably even less subtle than Starship Troopers.
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Sep 7, 2018 09:47
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Sep 7, 2018 10:11
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 Edit: So the Extra Credits folks have decided to kickstart a board game based on their understanding of politics: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv-kcu98C5I I immediately lost interest at "At its core, politics is a battle of ideas." I mean... isn't it about power? I could swear it was about power. Absurd Alhazred fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Sep 7, 2018 |
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Sep 7, 2018 10:12
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Echo Chamber posted:When I think of Death of the Author, I just think of that one guy on CD who kept doubling down on how Get Out wasn't about racism. 
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Sep 7, 2018 10:24
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This is the stupidest thing I've seen this month. I'm now feeling depressed.
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Sep 7, 2018 10:37
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Hbomberguy posted:I feel like Verhoeven's aesthetic has a kind of sympathy to fascism, even if he tries to play it cool like he's all the way into ironic distance. I don't think he's bad necessarily, but the purity of the volk as defended by the muscly army dudes against the roiling impure bug people has appeared more than once in the guy's movies. Thats my favorite part of Showgirls.
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Sep 7, 2018 11:50
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Netflix Death Note was pretty good
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Sep 7, 2018 12:43
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When Mr Incredible is doing superhero stuff out of self interest it is portrayed in a negative light. His moonlighting and his mercenary work for Mirage are built on self delusion and lies. The film frames his truly heroic moments when he finds a reason to be a Super beyond beating his impotence, using his powers to protect other people whether it is his family or civilians.
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Sep 7, 2018 12:53
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OmanyteJackson posted:Of course , that's how the movie frames our protagonist. The problem of objectivist isn't that they are selfish, it's that they believe what's materialy good for them is what's good for society. It's anti collectivist. Rand literally called this "the virtue of selfishness."
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Sep 7, 2018 13:45
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Also, just a heads up, new fascism simulator, Marvel's Spider-Man is now playable.
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Sep 7, 2018 13:51
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The Incredibles movies are both thematically very messy but the first one is better because the family stuff is a lot tighter.
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Sep 7, 2018 13:51
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Hbomberguy posted:I feel like Verhoeven's aesthetic has a kind of sympathy to fascism, even if he tries to play it cool like he's all the way into ironic distance. I don't think he's bad necessarily, but the purity of the volk as defended by the muscly army dudes against the roiling impure bug people has appeared more than once in the guy's movies. I've always read it as a sympathy to people caught up in fascism. Rico and pals don't know any other way, so they perpetuate a hegemony that they have little understanding of because they have no reference point to an alternative (and when they do, it's from a collectivist species so totally alien that has been the target of relentless propaganda). Then the people who do know better such as Rasczack and Rico's parents do attempt to dissuade them but ultimately get hosed over twice as hard.
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Sep 7, 2018 13:52
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The Incredibles doesn't really have objectivism coursing through it, but you could argue for the presence of values based on the watered-down, altruism-friendly neoliberal alternative that was synthesized by people like Greenspan which idolizes "benevolent" ""great men"" like Bill Gates and Elon Musk rather than publicly selfish ones.
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Sep 7, 2018 13:52
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Absurd Alhazred posted:
Ineffectual Centrist Discourse: The Game looks kind of awful, but will be redeemed if you can break the game's mechanics because there are no built in counters to continually forcing everyone to the right.
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Sep 7, 2018 14:16
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