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Hmmm, yes, won't someone think of the unrepentant racist and the serial sex pest
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Sep 12, 2018 22:30
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As others have said in this thread over and over, these people aren't losing 'everything' in a day. They're losing cushy entertainment gigs that afford them lavish lifestyles. It's hard to give a poo poo about people with more opportunities than most of us will ever have being sad because they can't keep their dick in their pants and/or can't concept racism that makes them the bad guy.
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Sep 12, 2018 22:34
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LesterGroans posted:Hmmm, yes, won't someone think of the unrepentant racist and the serial sex pest Yes, Roseanne the racist who had Wanda Sykes as the head writer on her reboot. Truly some masterful subterfuge to hide her true nature. Roseanne is a longtime idiot in decline into ever deeper levels, but...
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Sep 12, 2018 22:37
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AlternateAccount posted:Yes, Roseanne the racist who had Wanda Sykes as the head writer on her reboot. Truly some masterful subterfuge to hide her true nature. I guess she'd be the first racist to ever work with a black person.
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Sep 12, 2018 22:43
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Sykes was one of the people who laid out an ultimatum of quitting the show if Roseanne stayed on, as I recall.AlternateAccount posted:Being completely bent out of shape about Norm's comments is hilarious and a perfect microcosm about what's broken here. Everyone treats any sort of sympathy as a zero-sum game, so the mere hint of an expression that people have had entire careers destroyed and how absolutely psychologically destructive on an infathomable level that must be somehow means that he's stealing righteous sympathy from the victims. It's asinine. He's not saying they weren't wrong, hell, he's not even saying that they don't deserve it. You would still not be getting it if this were the only objectionable thing Norm said, but as it happens it was one of about ten or so.
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Sep 12, 2018 22:48
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quote:There are very few people that have gone through what they have, losing everything in a day. Of course, people will go, "What about the victims?" But you know what? The victims didn't have to go through that. I would imagine that the victims had to go through that when they got loving raped. In case anyone thinks Norm is just trying to be level-headed: https://twitter.com/normmacdonald/status/964024730423455744 Pirate Jet fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Sep 12, 2018 |
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Sep 12, 2018 23:22
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qwewq posted:As others have said in this thread over and over, these people aren't losing 'everything' in a day. They're losing cushy entertainment gigs that afford them lavish lifestyles. Well, Norm has lost everything in a day several times, through gambling.
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Sep 12, 2018 23:51
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He’s technically correct in assuming that the guy who lost gigs for serial sexual assault and the woman who lost gigs for racism have something in common.
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Sep 13, 2018 00:05
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Well, Norm has lost everything in a day several times, through gambling. Yeah he's basically a degenerate gambler and I bet there are a fair few things we don't know about Norm's personal life that are damning and have affected his career. His fandom comes from people who identify with the "smarter than thou" aspects of his comedy and take his existence on the periphery of show business as an indictment of show business, rather than Norm.
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Sep 13, 2018 00:11
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Slutitution posted:Munn spreading conspiracy theories about Fox ignoring her for two days (they weren't, their legal team was doing the responsible thing by researching her allegations) and publicly trashing Shane Black even after he apologized are certainly influencing the negative reviews. hahahahaha, you said Fox and research and also responsible all in the same sentence. That is funny. AlternateAccount posted:Being completely bent out of shape about Norm's comments is hilarious and a perfect microcosm about what's broken here. Everyone treats any sort of sympathy as a zero-sum game, so the mere hint of an expression that people have had entire careers destroyed and how absolutely psychologically destructive on an infathomable level that must be somehow means that he's stealing righteous sympathy from the victims. It's asinine. He's not saying they weren't wrong, hell, he's not even saying that they don't deserve it. That is completely loving heinous you moron. It's literally 'the victims haven't gone through what their abusers went through' You utter loving imbecile. AlternateAccount posted:Yes, Roseanne the racist who had Wanda Sykes as the head writer on her reboot. Truly some masterful subterfuge to hide her true nature.
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Sep 13, 2018 00:19
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https://twitter.com/brianstelter/status/1039935544564695040 https://twitter.com/koblin/status/1040008144599101440 a whole lot of Wow!!! in these tweets!!
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Sep 13, 2018 00:32
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AlternateAccount posted:Yes, Roseanne the racist who had Wanda Sykes as the head writer on her reboot. Truly some masterful subterfuge to hide her true nature. Pfft, get outta here with that "some of her best friends are black" poo poo.
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Sep 13, 2018 06:37
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AlternateAccount, what part of "gently caress off" do you not understand?
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Sep 13, 2018 06:56
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Norm always been a transparently center-right moderately sexist guy. He just has some more left ideas that maybe u wouldn't associate with that (probably cuz he's Canadian) & I think his tone leads people to dismissing the ideas that don't align with theirs as jokes instead of just taking him at face value. But in general it's clear (and he's been clear in saying) he doesn't think about that stuff in any particularly deep way.
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Sep 13, 2018 09:05
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lmao Norm has consistently worse takes than Jim loving Carrey, there is no excuse for that ever.
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Sep 13, 2018 15:17
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Oh Goddamnit. My take on Norm is that he's a weirdo that appears to be smart but is really just charming, stupid, and mean with a great verbal memory. Kinda like Dennis Miller. Norm is still funny as hell though, generally, but his last special was unwatchable. Then again in retrospect I say 'still funny as hell' based on youtube 'best of' clips from his podcast that's now a netflix show.
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Sep 13, 2018 16:46
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He doesn't have to be "not smart" to say incredibly stupid poo poo. Dude's smart and has a good wit, however, he's been living a life where he didn't care about things he didn't feel like he had to care about (hence, had no idea that Trump supporters were racist, because he simply never bothered to look). He was smug and secure, and as a result, he was completely oblivious to the fact that his attitudes towards Louis CK and Roseanne are deeply stupid. Like, Christ, if he even thought about it for five minutes he'd realize that the women who were chased out of comedy for complaining about Louis' behavior literally had the same experience as he did, with cancelled gigs and ended careers. Only they had it worse, because they weren't millionaires and they were also sexually harassed and threatened on top of it! But he's a smart guy, a wry outsider, he can't possibly be out of the loop and deeply ignorant about the situation, they just haven't heard Louis' side of things. As always, it's the world that's stupid and the comedian who cleverly points that out.
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Sep 13, 2018 18:55
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Precambrian posted:He doesn't have to be "not smart" to say incredibly stupid poo poo. Dude's smart and has a good wit, however, he's been living a life where he didn't care about things he didn't feel like he had to care about (hence, had no idea that Trump supporters were racist, because he simply never bothered to look). He was smug and secure, and as a result, he was completely oblivious to the fact that his attitudes towards Louis CK and Roseanne are deeply stupid. Thinking about things doesn’t seem to be his strong point; “Addressing his comments from Wednesday’s Stern interview — when he said “You’d have to have Down syndrome to not feel sorry” for harassment victims — the comedian told “The View” panelists he realized that he had done “something unforgivable.” “There is a thing on Howard where there's a recklessness in the studio,” Macdonald said. “Stupidly, I was about to say that word and then I stopped and said, ‘What’s the right word to say?’ And then I said a different word that was equally offensive. I realized in that moment that was something unforgivable.”
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Sep 14, 2018 04:50
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Saying something offensive and then "accidentally" making an even worse statement while apologising seems exactly like the kind of thing norm would consider a funny joke
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Sep 14, 2018 11:00
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peer posted:Saying something offensive and then "accidentally" making an even worse statement while apologising seems exactly like the kind of thing norm would consider a funny joke i would also buy that it shows up in his comedy as a joke often because he just legit has a habit of digging himself deeper like that and he's at least marginally self-aware about it
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Sep 15, 2018 04:29
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he does get material from real life, y'know
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Sep 15, 2018 04:44
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I can see the broader claim in Norm's original interview, that Louis and Roseanne went through something that was specific to them, but it's such misplaced empathy. They're consequences of their own making, why should that elicit sympathy in anyone? But as quick-witted and smart as Norm can be, he has some incredibly dumb views sometimes. By this point I just think his apology tour is just a bit.
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Sep 15, 2018 18:51
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I feel like having empathy for them is fine, esp since he's good friends with them. The way he worded it came off like losing a Hollywood career in a day being worse than what happened to the victims tho was baaaaaaaad
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Sep 15, 2018 23:28
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DrVenkman posted:I can see the broader claim in Norm's original interview, that Louis and Roseanne went through something that was specific to them, but it's such misplaced empathy. They're consequences of their own making, why should that elicit sympathy in anyone? Well, as you may have unconsciously noted, there is a difference between sympathy and empathy. I don't have sympathy for either of them, but I can empathize with how much it must suck to flush your life away by doing dumb, destructive poo poo and have only yourself to blame.
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Sep 16, 2018 00:02
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Just so I'm crystal clear on the Louis C.K. stuff, Louis C.K. claimed that women who spoke out about him masturbating in front of them were liars for a long time, right? Until the claims got too strong to deny, then he pulled his big mea culpa. And any women he claimed were lying prior to his big confession no doubt had their careers damaged as a result of it, correct?
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Sep 16, 2018 06:20
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Sucrose posted:Just so I'm crystal clear on the Louis C.K. stuff, Louis C.K. claimed that women who spoke out about him masturbating in front of them were liars for a long time, right? Until the claims got too strong to deny, then he pulled his big mea culpa. And any women he claimed were lying prior to his big confession no doubt had their careers damaged as a result of it, correct? That's a pretty fair reading to the situation.
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Sep 16, 2018 06:28
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I don't think CK made any public statements at all until that long email he sent to his subscribers(?), but he probably said they were liars in private/business dealings.
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Sep 16, 2018 07:01
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As I recall it, there were no actual accusations of him beyond anonymous Gawker gossip before his MeToo thing broke
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Sep 16, 2018 07:41
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Vegetable posted:As I recall it, there were no actual accusations of him beyond anonymous Gawker gossip before his MeToo thing broke No but it was like the Kevin Spacey thing, a rumor that nobody wanted to actually talk about.
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Sep 16, 2018 07:48
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Krankenstyle posted:I don't think CK made any public statements at all until that long email he sent to his subscribers(?), but he probably said they were liars in private/business dealings. Were there any accusations made against him prior to the whole thing blowing up, publicly or privately (but know known to have happened)? This is important, because a scenario where Louis CK confessed soon after allegations were first made against him is a lot different from a scenario where Louis CK knew that women he had masturbated in front of had accused him of sexual harassment, but called them liars, damaged their careers as a result, and kept right on masturbating in front of people.
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Sep 16, 2018 07:49
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There were anonymous accusations, people in the trade most likely knew.
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Sep 16, 2018 09:14
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There were accusations and rumors for years, which Louis CK notably never acknowledged publicly. This was a significant enough grey area for people to accept, because they could just chalk it up to the typical BS a celebrity has to deal with (before MeToo of course). The accusers having their careers sputter out into nothing was merely circumstantial as far as anyone was concerned. Then Tig Notaro famously and publicly called him out about 6 months to a year before the MeToo movement, and this is when he publicly denied the accusations ("I don't know why she's saying this stuff, this is all news to me"). This was basically his point of no return, if he got out ahead of the MeToo movement, set a clear precedent for others by taking responsibility for his actions and acknowledging his wrongdoings then, instead of when he absolutely had to, then maybe he could have made a clean return. Maybe. But he didn't.
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Sep 16, 2018 10:37
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Sucrose posted:Just so I'm crystal clear on the Louis C.K. stuff, Louis C.K. claimed that women who spoke out about him masturbating in front of them were liars for a long time, right? Until the claims got too strong to deny, then he pulled his big mea culpa. And any women he claimed were lying prior to his big confession no doubt had their careers damaged as a result of it, correct? OK so the general history: It was in the public rumor mill as early as 2012. Jen Kirkman essentially outed him as a sex pest in 2015. Roseanne said she'd heard all kinds of poo poo about him in 2016. Tig Notaro publicly severed ties a couple of months before the Times story broke. Both of the above stories bury some ledes, such as accusations of CK doing very Weinstein-like stuff in public. Essentially by 2015 at the latest everyone in show business knows he's a pervert and simply nothing is done. By that point he's been doing it for decades and only become more powerful in Hollywood. The stuff that the NY Times reported on was all mid-90's to 2005 stuff. Vulture got him to talk about it a little in 2016: quote:“I don’t care about that,” he told Vulture in 2016 when pressed about the allegations. “That’s nothing to me. That’s not real.” He continued, “if you need your public profile to be all positive, you’re sick in the head. I do the work I do, and what happens next I can’t look after.” That's really alarming in that it's both a denial and a self-justification wrapped up in some vague nonsense. But in general Louis never had to deny anything in public because it was assumed that if you went against Louis your career would be destroyed. Generally a good assumption since we've now had it confirmed in explicit detail that he's not even the worst or most powerful guy to do this. God Hole posted:There were accusations and rumors for years, which Louis CK notably never acknowledged publicly. This was a significant enough grey area for people to accept, because they could just chalk it up to the typical BS a celebrity has to deal with (before MeToo of course). The accusers having their careers sputter out into nothing was merely circumstantial as far as anyone was concerned. There's not really a way to admit that you've been committing sex crimes for decades and keep working.
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Sep 16, 2018 10:50
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Thanks for that summary. Ok then, Louis CK can unambiguously get hosed. He wasn't a creepy weirdo who nevertheless didn't seem to realize how upset his creepy behavior made others; he was a creepy weirdo who knew that fact perfectly well and kept these women silent by threatening their careers. gently caress him. And gently caress Norm MacDonald for acting like Louis is a victim. Hell I can almost, almost see some sympathy for Roseanne, losing her job over one dumbass tweet (though not really, since it was a pretty racist tweet and she probably entirely meant it) but how can anyone defend Louis CK, a guy with actual victims? No, he didn't rape anyone, but he sexually harassed the poo poo out of them.
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Sep 16, 2018 17:53
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Also, remember that Louis did rape jokes yet again on his surprise set a few weeks ago. He's very clearly learned absolutely nothing and is probably only kept from continuing to sexually assault people by public scrutiny.
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Sep 16, 2018 20:03
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From the outset Louis made it clear he was going to do a "listening tour" with the unspoken-but-nearly-spoken assumption that he would return. This has also been carefully categorized as "just some sexual impropriety among friends" in the media, like he just has a problem coming on too strong with women he meets in an on-brand way. I had my eyebrows raised when I did the ten minutes of research that Sucrose asked for (no offense Sucrose) because I wanted to know for certain myself and not just repeat what I had heard in the media generally. So, with that in mind, a pox on comedians who continue to boost for him. Lots of "he's served his time!" claims laid in there. If he goes to jail, he'll have served time. So far he's had a long vacation. By the way, the latest accusations against Moonves include sexual assault from as recently as last year.
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Sep 16, 2018 20:31
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Sodomy Hussein posted:From the outset Louis made it clear he was going to do a "listening tour" with the unspoken-but-nearly-spoken assumption that he would return. This has also been carefully categorized as "just some sexual impropriety among friends" in the media, like he just has a problem coming on too strong with women he meets in an on-brand way. I had my eyebrows raised when I did the ten minutes of research that Sucrose asked for (no offense Sucrose) because I wanted to know for certain myself and not just repeat what I had heard in the media generally. Right. Same. Thanks for that, I basically wanted to know, for sure, what he did because I've heard several conflicting things about it. That said, I'm not sure how you'd keep Louis CK out of comedy for longer. It's not like movies made by gigantic corporations; there's a gazillion little comedy clubs out there. If Louis CK shows up, undoubtedly some people will pay to see him. I suppose at least people can continue to voice their disapproval of him and keep him from making a TV or film comeback, but nothing's going to prevent him from doing all the standup he wants. Maybe that's the way it should be. At least everyone in that business and in general now knows that he's a creep.
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Sep 16, 2018 23:32
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Sucrose posted:Right. Same. Thanks for that, I basically wanted to know, for sure, what he did because I've heard several conflicting things about it.
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Sep 17, 2018 02:11
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So Drake is dating an 18-year-old, and people have dug up pictures and stuff of them from 2016. So I’m predicting stuff is gonna come out about him sooner rather than later. Also casts his friendship(?) with Millie Bobby Brown in a way creepier light, and it was already creepy.
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Sep 17, 2018 15:08
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Asia Argento is threatening to sue Rose McGowan after Rose went public with further information about the sexual abuse allegations being levied at Argento, including that she allegedly received nude photos of her accuser when he was only twelve years old. So. Everything about this is super gross as gently caress. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/asia-argento-rose-mcgowan-lawsuit-724895/
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Sep 17, 2018 18:19
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