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The game started out as a home game (in Pathfinder, incidentally) that they eventually started streaming later. So yes, the campaign 1 videos very much pick up in media res. They did eventually make a video summarizing the pre-stream adventures, which you can watch here. There's little hiccups here and there due to transitioning from Pathfinder to D&D 5e. Dunno how long ago you gave it a shot, but that first campaign has now wrapped up and they're 34 episodes into a new campaign. It's the same overall setting but with new characters, a different continent and 50 years later; so far the ties to the old campaign are solely easter eggs. Between the vastly improved production quality and the character lessons learned from doing the old one, it's a very nice jumping-in point for new viewers. Just search for "Campaign 2, Episode 1" and you'll find it on youtube or wherever you wanna watch.
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Sep 15, 2018 20:30
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It's only 20 years later, not 50. Which is important because just this week we met our first NPC who was in the original campaign! If you don't recall her, Captain Adella was the one VM paid to sail them out to where the Water Ashari were. She's an ex-pirate and they liked her very much. She wasn't really important though.
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Sep 15, 2018 22:47
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Episode 79 is it me or Did Liam and Marisha metagame that pretty hard with Raishan? And did Matt try to give Liam an out there after attacking her? I loved the look on Laura, Taliesin, Sam, and Travis as he said he was going to kill her. They all start saying basically ' how loving stupid are you?' Sam is all ' We're men of our word, men of honor. This whole scene just felt off to me. The fight was amazing though. Laura sounds like she's about to cry. She is not about this. Edit: and Travis is not about metagaming, staying behind to kill a random lizardfolk while everyone rushes off. RC Cola fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Sep 16, 2018 |
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Sep 16, 2018 01:50
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That entire incident pissed a whole bunch of people off. Liam tried to justify it by saying "That's just what Vax would do and Keyleth told him to stop her," but she didn't. Keyleth told him to wait for her. He also claimed he had no way of knowing what spell Raishan was casting and maybe it was something to teleport out or kill all of them, which was blatantly untrue because Matt explicitly told Liam that Vax recognized the spell as Speak with Dead, which Pike uses all the time and Vax has seen her do and should know how it works. And Matt definitely tried to give Liam an out he didn't take because Matt was stunned he'd do something that dumb. This is one of the situations I mentioned when I said Vax does stupid things but isn't the one who suffers the consequences of it. Vax has Evasion and when he pisses off a green dragon while there's only three people in the tunnel and only two of them nearby, Vex and Keyleth are the ones who get blasted and Vax walks off without a scratch. A chunk of fans defended Liam by saying that Raishan attacked them first by hitting Vax with chain lightning during the Thordak fight but nobody on the other side ever disagreed that Raishan needed to be killed - we disagreed with Vax's bad timing. Liam was later gifted a shirt in the Star Wars font that says "Raishan Shot First" and he's regularly worn it to panels at conventions and I loving hate it because it shows he never really understood what people were telling him. By the time the next episode rolls around, the rest of the cast has gotten over their irritation but in the moment, they definitely looked annoyed about it.
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Sep 16, 2018 02:13
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Why the hell would Sam care about being honorable to Raishan? This reminds me of the reddit posts whining about how they "broke the deal" they were forced into with a mass murderer who they already told multiple times they would kill.
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Sep 16, 2018 02:48
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Kraps posted:Why the hell would Sam care about being honorable to Raishan? This reminds me of the reddit posts whining about how they "broke the deal" they were forced into with a mass murderer who they already told multiple times they would kill. I think he was in shock and figures they were about to tpk
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Sep 16, 2018 02:52
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RC Cola posted:I think he was in shock and figures they were about to tpk Can you imagine the loving meltdown the community would have if they ever did a TPK?
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Sep 16, 2018 13:00
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Honestly, the worst part of all of that were all the Raishan fans who kept saying she should have gotten away. It got really annoying, so I was glad when she was taken down in what was the most karmic moment in the entire campaign. Also, the whole party knew that Raishan couldn't be trusted, so I don't blame them from wanting to stop her. If they just let her go, Exandria would currently be dealing with a powerful Dracolich right now.
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Sep 16, 2018 13:38
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wokow6 posted:Honestly, the worst part of all of that were all the Raishan fans who kept saying she should have gotten away. It got really annoying, so I was glad when she was taken down in what was the most karmic moment in the entire campaign. Also, the whole party knew that Raishan couldn't be trusted, so I don't blame them from wanting to stop her. If they just let her go, Exandria would currently be dealing with a powerful Dracolich right now. That actually makes me think of something that I would love to be able to ask Matt If Vecna had won the final battle and ascended to godhood, what would the world look like in the current campaign?
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Sep 16, 2018 14:52
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Sion posted:Can you imagine the loving meltdown the community would have if they ever did a TPK? I seriously thought Lorenzo might be. It was fairly horrifying. That said, Matt has said things which indicate to me a TPK would not actually end the campaign, and that instead they'd like have an Orphean breakout scenario or some other way to have the entire party being defeated only start a new chapter of their arc. I'm pretty sure Vecna was designed to be extremely beatable. Matt struggles with balance mostly at low levels where the line between dramatic and crushingly dangerous is super thin. Vecna was given big flashy spells to make him seem suitable Final Boss material and sell him as a badass, like Meteor Swarm, but he was decidedly NOT optimized for wizard bullshit in the fashion of a really broken wizard. (Meteor Swarm is decidedly NOT the best use of your ninth level spells, but it looks badass.) He didn't have nearly enough save or suck spells. (For that matter Vox Machina themselves was extremely powerful but far from optimized, because optimized tactics in the classic Grognard fashion makes for bad drama.) Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Sep 16, 2018 |
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Sep 16, 2018 20:01
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Jetrauben posted:I seriously thought Lorenzo might be. It was fairly horrifying. I think he was slow-playing the Lorenzo fight-- Molly's death wouldn't have happened if Molly hadn't knocked himself unconscious as Lorenzo was making a beeline for him, ready to attack. Lorenzo would've knocked Molly out with the first strike and given him two failed throws with the second, then Molly's periapt would stabilize him on the next turn. By knocking himself out, the two strikes killed him, and there was no narrative reason for Lorenzo to NOT carry out the attack he was already going to. On the TPKs, in his DM tips series, Matt went over scenarios where a TPK isn't a campaign killer, using those sort of techniques. The only times that I think would've been 100% campaign enders were late-season stuff, like Keyleth dying while they were plane-shifted in the prison or a TPK against Vecna.
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Sep 16, 2018 20:16
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Sion posted:Can you imagine the loving meltdown the community would have if they ever did a TPK? I wonder which woman they'll desperately blame it on
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Sep 16, 2018 20:38
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Blockhouse posted:I wonder which woman they'll desperately blame it on See, now that CR is a whole business in and of itself, I reallllllllllly don't think we'll see much in the way of lethality in the games. Gotta keep the brand alive I guess?
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Sep 16, 2018 22:02
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DaiJiaTeng posted:That actually makes me think of something that I would love to be able to ask Matt Good news, Matt's actually answered this question. You'll need Alpha to access it but after the first campaign was over, they did a huge multi-hour Campaign Wrap Up episode of TM with everyone on it where they bombarded the cast and particularly Matt with all the questions that never came up in game. There were so many questions for Matt that they ended up having to do a follow up episode to ask him even more. Sion posted:See, now that CR is a whole business in and of itself, I reallllllllllly don't think we'll see much in the way of lethality in the games. Gotta keep the brand alive I guess? If that was true, Matt wouldn't have killed Molly. The CR "brand" isn't character specific. It's more cast specific. I think Matt generally tries to avoid TPKs in the sense that he tries to drop hints that maybe the party should not do the thing they're trying to do, but if they're really bullheaded and keep going then he'll kill them if it comes down to it.
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Sep 16, 2018 22:54
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DaiJiaTeng posted:That actually makes me think of something that I would love to be able to ask Matt CuwiKhons posted:Good news, Matt's actually answered this question. You'll need Alpha to access it ... gently caress Alpha! I joke, I wish I had the funds to subscribe, it looks like some content I would really enjoy. Do you remember the answer? Apprentice Dick posted:Brian Foster hosting also has an advantage because he knows them outside the show. That gives it a different feel from most shows like that. It still surprises me when BWF breaks out of self-depreciating jack-rear end mode, and nails insightful character and dramaturgically on-point questions. And then there's the whole PullOutKing moment, which is peak stupid/best convergence
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Sep 17, 2018 00:18
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Better news, you only need youtube to watch the Campaign Wrap Up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iit1exv_FYA and the Campaign Wrap Up Wrap Up Fireside Chat https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJRtjS6k0sI. Obviously spoilers for the entire C1 in there.
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Sep 17, 2018 00:42
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wokow6 posted:Honestly, the worst part of all of that were all the Raishan fans who kept saying she should have gotten away. It got really annoying, so I was glad when she was taken down in what was the most karmic moment in the entire campaign. Also, the whole party knew that Raishan couldn't be trusted, so I don't blame them from wanting to stop her. If they just let her go, Exandria would currently be dealing with a powerful Dracolich right now. I do love that Rothfuss got the killing blow and thus got like 4 levels in a single shot
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Sep 17, 2018 00:54
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Episode 81 complaining incoming. First off when Percy or anyone else died, the party was distraught. When Scanlan died, no one made a comment or shed a tear or even asked him about it. Maybe it had something to do with not having a long resurrection sequence, but I think that hurt Scanlan and Sam both. Scanlan calling Vax out on his recklessness was great though. It's just a shame he wasn't willing to listen to his friend who died from that consequence. And then Vax defends himself like he did nothing wrong. When Scanlan and Vex died, Vax said 'The only thing I regret is that she got away.' He isn't taking responsibility, but when Percy's actions killed Vex he says 'if you do something like that again I will kill you'. Secondly The meta-gaming gets annoying. Scanlan- 'is this a hallucenation?' Keyleth- 'why would you be hallucinating? Just asking' I don't think anyone in the party knew he even got the drugs, I don't think any of them, especially Keyleth would know how drugs are taken. This goes back to when he was trying to first buy the drugs off Jarrett and the party was trying to meta-game themselves to be able to interfere with it. I've been noticing more and more Matt telling people 'you aren't there'. I'm hoping that's the last of the meta-gaming in this episode. Edit: Sam looks more and more upset the longer the game goes. spoke too soon Everyone is ruining the deck of many things for both Travis and Grog RC Cola fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Sep 17, 2018 |
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Sep 17, 2018 01:07
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Noxin of Shame posted:gently caress Alpha! I joke, I wish I had the funds to subscribe, it looks like some content I would really enjoy. Do you remember the answer? Kraps has corrected me and it's available on Youtube but that said, Basically we would have moved right into the second campaign with a much darker world. Vecna wanted to rule the world, not destroy it, so life would still exist under him. Matt didn't go into a ton of detail but it sounded like it was an extreme "life under an oppressive government" sort of world.
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Sep 17, 2018 01:08
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CuwiKhons posted:If that was true, Matt wouldn't have killed Molly. The CR "brand" isn't character specific. It's more cast specific. I think Matt generally tries to avoid TPKs in the sense that he tries to drop hints that maybe the party should not do the thing they're trying to do, but if they're really bullheaded and keep going then he'll kill them if it comes down to it. One character != a TPK, duder.
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Sep 17, 2018 10:31
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"I would like to fist the wound" Sam is a god drat treasure to humanity
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Sep 17, 2018 10:53
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Sion posted:One character != a TPK, duder. I misunderstood what you meant. I knew we were discussing TPKs but you said you expected less lethality and I thought you meant just toning down fights overall. My bad.
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Sep 17, 2018 11:06
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Sion posted:See, now that CR is a whole business in and of itself, I reallllllllllly don't think we'll see much in the way of lethality in the games. Gotta keep the brand alive I guess? I mean, he came drat close to killing quite a few people in the latest episode, or at least forcing a revivify and even that was looking unlikely if things had gotten just a tiny bit worse. I don't think he's pulling his punches much, though he isn't stacking things to the point where absolute optimal play is the only chance they have, which is a good thing since they're not hardcore d&d powergamers that exploit every little mechanic they can and know the spells inside and out. I'm looking forward to the high-level stuff down the line too when he's tossing meteor swarms and the like at them.
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Sep 17, 2018 11:12
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More episode 81 but Scanlan modify memory is brutal. I can see Sam walking the dark path y'all keep talking about. I can't wait to catch up so everything can surprise me.
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Sep 17, 2018 12:51
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While Matt has absolutely no qualms about killing a character if that's what the dice and fate come down to, I think he'd do everything in his power to avoid a TPK because even outside of the show setting it can be really annoying. You basically have to throw out or adjust your entire campaign to accommodate the original party no longer existing, which will also upset the players who are no longer able to continue with the intended story that they may have been getting invested in. It's merely made worse by the show setting leading to hundreds of thousands of people also being extremely invested in the characters. Molly's death is dramatically appropriate in retrospect and yet still caused a massive uproar and harassment of the cast and crew. A TPK would be like turning on your favorite TV show one night and finding out that everyone dies and it ends on a cliffhanger midway through the season.
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Sep 17, 2018 13:54
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Speaking of TPKs, I'm watching episode 7 and they could have risked a lot of people there too. Fjord ends up paralyzed, Nott is knocked unconscious trying to save him, and Jester is knocked unconscious almost immediately after that so they're down a cleric. Any or all of those three could have been killed because of a lot of lucky rolls by Matt, including one natural 20 against Nott that Sam was only saved by due to disadvantage at the time.
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Sep 17, 2018 14:04
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Speaking as someone who enjoys a little lethality in their games, one of my ongoing complaints with 5e (though I appreciate I might be in the minority here) is how comparatively difficult it is to kill a single character verses wasting the entire party. The rules as written heavily favor keeping everyone alive and kickin', meaning a lot of things that pose an actual risk to individual players do so by putting the whole group at risk, and "Everyone loses, game over" isn't really satisfying conclusion to the narrative. Obviously you'll get edge cases where nobody brought any healing potions, nobody's a cleric, or players go off on their own and get ganked, but all things being equal (in my experience, at least) the group tends to survive or perish together. Yeah, sometimes the dice are against them, but that's a separate issue divorced from any planning. I don't wanna kill the whole party - or, in truth, anyone actually - but I like to encourage that feeling of tension, that anyone could die, but that feeling is ephemeral, and the mechanics don't support it. I've seen a lot of people accuse Matt of being overly merciful with his encounters, but the fact is 5e isn't very conductive to running a game where you flirt with death in the first place - unless you're the sort of DM who routinely kicks players while they're down, which should only be done sparingly (see: Lorenzo) and quickly becomes poor form if every encounter every bad guy starts double-tapping. Back on topic, I'm still catching up on back-episodes, but Keg and Nila have both been great, and since I've been hard on Beau it's only fair I give credit where credit is due and admit I liked her eulogy for Molly.
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Sep 17, 2018 14:35
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chitoryu12 posted:A TPK would be like turning on your favorite TV show one night and finding out that everyone dies and it ends on a cliffhanger midway through the season. I might be one of the scant few but I remember Mortal Kombat Konquest.
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Sep 17, 2018 14:45
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Last episode was pretty brutal all things considered, and people were having conniptions about how watching isn't fun and Matt's being too hard on them. Pfff. And yeah, Beau's eulogy was another case of the amazing coincidences that happen sometimes, what a great scene. The one that still blows my mind is from C1E65, when Vex asked the fortune teller if she made the right choice, and he "predicts" the union of Vex and Percy, and "a new dawn", in which she becomes the champion of Pelor.
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Sep 17, 2018 14:51
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Raged posted:"I would like to fist the wound" Matt's reaction is priceless. 
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Sep 17, 2018 15:43
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Bad Seafood posted:Speaking as someone who enjoys a little lethality in their games, one of my ongoing complaints with 5e (though I appreciate I might be in the minority here) is how comparatively difficult it is to kill a single character verses wasting the entire party. The rules as written heavily favor keeping everyone alive and kickin', meaning a lot of things that pose an actual risk to individual players do so by putting the whole group at risk, and "Everyone loses, game over" isn't really satisfying conclusion to the narrative. Obviously you'll get edge cases where nobody brought any healing potions, nobody's a cleric, or players go off on their own and get ganked, but all things being equal (in my experience, at least) the group tends to survive or perish together. Yeah, sometimes the dice are against them, but that's a separate issue divorced from any planning. I don't wanna kill the whole party - or, in truth, anyone actually - but I like to encourage that feeling of tension, that anyone could die, but that feeling is ephemeral, and the mechanics don't support it. The 0 hp/death saves structure is tailored around an "all or nothing" situation which tries to avoid a partial party wipe. The three ways to keep a PC from standing up again in 5E are to keep attacking (doesn't prevent revivify), to apply effects that prevent healing (lower max health to 0, for example), or to set up a situation where it's impractical to revive someone because they'd immediately get dropped to 0 again (usually involving cloud spells or AoE attacks). Option 1 is mean-spirited. Option 2 is limited to certain kinds of enemies but is the most likely to actually happen. Option 3 encourages a TPK because players don't like leaving PCs behind; worse, if the GM has ever employed Option 1, the TPK likelihood increases because leaving an unconscious PC behind means death, not continued adventuring opportunities. Still better than 1E, where death's door was an added option and 0 hp meant death. The solution (and a more interesting one to my mind) is to have other consequences for losing a battle beyond death. Such consequences are usually longer-lasting and harder to fix than PC death, which after all can be "fixed" by "here's my new character."
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Sep 17, 2018 19:24
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Narsham posted:The 0 hp/death saves structure is tailored around an "all or nothing" situation which tries to avoid a partial party wipe. The three ways to keep a PC from standing up again in 5E are to keep attacking (doesn't prevent revivify), to apply effects that prevent healing (lower max health to 0, for example), or to set up a situation where it's impractical to revive someone because they'd immediately get dropped to 0 again (usually involving cloud spells or AoE attacks). Yeah thats one of the big old issues of D&D in general, death is the most boring consequence for an action. It's final (except when its not and is actually a trivial problem in D&D at a certain point), it locks players out of the game and it shafts the GM's long term work and forces them to basically re-write or write up completely new storybeats. Problem is, D&D doesn't really have an in between that lets you have a consequence for losing that isn't straight up death. Item destruction or long term lingering wounds as an example. Though item destruction in a game where its not so easy to replace items is pretty rough and lingering wounds are often used as a gently caress you to players than something interesting. You want Lukes hand being chopped off (and then replaced relatively soon after) kind of stuff where its more an emotional character reminder than anything else. Or maybe death is instead just a way for gods to shuffle their decks of people and you get traded off to serve another god because you got a lot of assists this season.
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Sep 18, 2018 00:46
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It'd be pretty interesting to see lingering wounds in crit role — "Ok, Caleb, although you've been healed by Jester bringing you back up to 14, you were reduced to zero last round — roll a d100 ... Ok, huh. You now have another limp. What does three limps look like?"
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Sep 18, 2018 01:15
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Rather than randomized lingering wounds, it'd probably be better to have Matt and the player collaborate on a lasting injury that would make sense from how they were injured. You probably don't get a limp from being fireballed in the face, for example. Also tonight's the first episode of Brian's new intimate interview show, Between the Sheets. It airs at 7pm PST but should be up on Youtube on... Wednesday? I think? This first episode is about Taliesin.
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Sep 18, 2018 01:20
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In the first bunch of Vox Machina episodes there was that injury where Liam burned his foot in the lava and it took them several healing sessions to restore it completely. I was surprised nothing like that has come up since then that I remember. Even the acid baths in the briarwood arc just did a ticklish amount of superficial hp damage.
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Sep 18, 2018 01:25
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CuwiKhons posted:Rather than randomized lingering wounds, it'd probably be better to have Matt and the player collaborate on a lasting injury that would make sense from how they were injured. You probably don't get a limp from being fireballed in the face, for example. Noxin of Shame posted:It'd be pretty interesting to see lingering wounds in crit role — "Ok, Caleb, although you've been healed by Jester bringing you back up to 14, you were reduced to zero last round — roll a d100 ... Ok, huh. You now have another limp. What does three limps look like?" Yeah to be clear 'lingering' doesnt not mean 'your character is now crippled and hosed up' or you end up with a pack of deformed heroes and mutants. Its just a little something you add (and working it out with a player is extremely a good idea) to give a remembrance of this moment. Being hit by a fireball or arcane attack for example wouldn't necessary even leave a burn or a scar but blast you took causes your chest to tighten and tense up a bit whenever your in the presence of a lot of arcane energy, like arthritis in the cold. Or being knocked out gives that character a concussion or throws them out of it for a bit so when their friends rouse them, they accidentally spill information that they wouldn't normally share with the person who got to them. Caleb being knocked out way back would have been a good moment for him to maybe start begging Beau to forgive him as he believes that shes his mother whiles hes out of it, that will prompt Beau to want to find out what happened and why Caleb would beg his mother for forgiveness (cant actually remember if he'd spilled his backstory by then or not by that point but you get the idea). Stuff that hurts but ultimately drives the character forward is what you want. The goal is that the failure should be something you can remember negatively for what happened but also positively as it pushes your character in a new direction.
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Sep 18, 2018 01:28
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Ok, but at the level of roleplaying, improvisation and commitment to character that this cast have, it would still be interesting to me to see them handle a lingering wound. Whether it be an injury that is superficial, one that drives narrative, plot hooks etc, or a "lol, you blind, perma-disadvantage". While the latter would not be fun to play on the basis that ineffectual characters are lame (cough Molly cough), I'd still enjoy watching it be overcome. I think they're already on the level of being in the moment and playing up confusion and discombobulation after being heavily slammed, taking that moment to let slip some personal info. As for D&D only having rules to punish play rather than to Fail Forward™, well you're not wrong. But that's a discussion for another thread 
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Sep 18, 2018 02:32
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Keyleth just had the most karmatic moment. Feebleminding Raishan! incredible!
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Sep 18, 2018 12:00
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Narsham posted:The solution (and a more interesting one to my mind) is to have other consequences for losing a battle beyond death. Such consequences are usually longer-lasting and harder to fix than PC death, which after all can be "fixed" by "here's my new character." Obviously you can still cultivate a lot of powerful and unexpected character moments and dynamics without death, but I think it's a shame to discount it as a simple fail state, nothing more. I enjoyed Molly's character, but the best thing he ever did for the show was die and provide the remaining party members with a renewed sense of purpose and kinship.
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Sep 18, 2018 14:40
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kingcom posted:Yeah to be clear 'lingering' doesnt not mean 'your character is now crippled and hosed up' or you end up with a pack of deformed heroes and mutants. Its just a little something you add (and working it out with a player is extremely a good idea) to give a remembrance of this moment. Being hit by a fireball or arcane attack for example wouldn't necessary even leave a burn or a scar but blast you took causes your chest to tighten and tense up a bit whenever your in the presence of a lot of arcane energy, like arthritis in the cold. Or being knocked out gives that character a concussion or throws them out of it for a bit so when their friends rouse them, they accidentally spill information that they wouldn't normally share with the person who got to them. Caleb being knocked out way back would have been a good moment for him to maybe start begging Beau to forgive him as he believes that shes his mother whiles hes out of it, that will prompt Beau to want to find out what happened and why Caleb would beg his mother for forgiveness (cant actually remember if he'd spilled his backstory by then or not by that point but you get the idea). Stuff that hurts but ultimately drives the character forward is what you want. The goal is that the failure should be something you can remember negatively for what happened but also positively as it pushes your character in a new direction. I don't normally play in settings with easy magical healing, so when my characters take injuries I like to actually mark them with scars and other lasting effects. Like in my Pulp 1955 game in the first job, one of the mercs took a bullet in a drive-by. His body armor saved him from a mortal wound, but the doctor informed him that the slowed-down bullet would be remaining in his abdomen probably forever due to the unnecessary risk of operating to remove it unless it drifts. So that character now permanently has a scar on his stomach and a bullet stuck in there. Another guy fell off a fire escape and slightly wounded himself by throwing a grenade too close, so he's doing the next half of the mission with a sprained ankle and will probably lose hearing in a few decades. I think even without crippling or extreme disfigurement, you can use scars in a non-magical setting to trace the path of the campaign. Every time a character suffers an injury that can't heal perfectly, have them write down the new sign of damage on their sheet.
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Sep 18, 2018 16:57
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