Do Hunters Dream of Lovecraftian Sheep? - Let's Play Bloodborne

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Not Alex: Oct 9, 2012; Cut loose before the god eaters show up.

What if the Living Failures are the Celestial Emissaries, viewed through the lens of the nightmare? The fight has a very similar setup.

# ? Sep 15, 2018 13:39

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 23:27

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

CJacobs posted:

It is possible! Although that begs the question that I asked before rotating the stairs, which is just how much of the Nightmare is actually real and how much of it is fabricated cthulu nonsense. It's more of a philosophical question I guess because there's really no way to know outside of the few things we have seen (and will see) that are concrete, established real people and places. Maybe the Living Failures weren't actually alive at all in the real world. And if the research hall patients are real, surely they didn't end up as rolling sacked heads and headless bodies stumbling around- the real world of Yharnam has some pretty fantastical mutants running around, but with the real creatures you never really have to ask "how is this thing even alive?"

its my opinion that the entire thing is simply a dream in the head of a newborn god

# ? Sep 15, 2018 16:23

Jonny Nox: Apr 26, 2008

Tollymain posted:

its my opinion that the entire thing is simply a dream in the head of the newborn god Miyazaki

# ? Sep 15, 2018 17:28

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

Huh, it turns out getting killed by a ghost was the way to cure our ills all along! Who knew?

# ? Sep 18, 2018 23:20

thetruegentleman: Feb 5, 2011; You call that potato a Trump avatar?

THIS is a Trump Avatar!

You could originally talk to Maria (she just asks you to leave the dream), and if you didn't kill her, Simon would instead: the cutscene plays when you come back and then try to grab her corpse. Also, the (final) English version leaves out her snark: she actually says "corpse fishing (grave robbing) isn't very admirable," which is also what she would say if Simon was the one to "kill" her instead.

If you "killed" her instead, she would grab you and say, "You, X, are insufferable" before going into the secrets spiel. You can definitely see why Gherman isn't happy with the submissive doll.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 00:08

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OGxpTDyX_4

Here's the video about that content, which is still somewhat in the game and has been reconstructed by my hacker husbando, Lance McDonald. While it is really interesting to see this, I kind of prefer it how it is now. Forcing the player to smack her to proceed just because Simon asks you to (or else miss out on a killer boss fight without knowing it) is kind of hackneyed in a way these games usually aren't, especially with how you have no reason to fight her because the Research Hall patients worship the ground she walks (walked?) on.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 00:23

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

CJacobs posted:

Although that begs the question that I asked before rotating the stairs, which is just how much of the Nightmare is actually real and how much of it is fabricated cthulu nonsense. It's more of a philosophical question I guess because there's really no way to know outside of the few things we have seen (and will see) that are concrete, established real people and places.

This is half pseudo-philosophical nonsense and half "I know the genre from when it used to be actual books," but have you ever heard of The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath? It's more or less a canonic part of the Lovecraftian setting that dreams are no less real than reality, or transport you into a different reality, or something in-between. From the way the games present it, with the focus on dreams as both experiences and states of being? I would not find it entirely reasonable if the message we are supposed to take away is that those places are real, even if the people you meet in there aren't.

To the Great Ones, all of existence might just be one series of Matrix-style dreams nested into each other, some made by them, some made by others, there's just no real real world to wake back up into. Is it any surprise they act so alien, if we're hardly more than a figment of their imagination to them? It's more a miracle that they even care as much as the game tells us they supposedly do.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 00:24

Lord_Magmar: Feb 24, 2015; "Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"

So, now that we�ve met Maria my opinion is the research hall is formed from her memories. It is highly likely she either committed suicide in real life, or less likely but still possible was killed by a member of the Executioners. Either way there is a coffin at the back of the clock tower which I assume exists in the real world and is probably hers.

By this same token the first area of the DLC I imagine is primarily formed of Ludwig�s and maybe Laurence�s memories of Yharnam. There�s something else going on too but I�ll wait until the DLC is over to share my thoughts.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 02:11

ComicsandSlushies: Feb 22, 2013

man Lady Maria has one of the coolest boss fights in the game and the music that plays during the fight is one of my favorites in the OST

also what was the song you had playing during the end bit about her? It sounds familiar but I can't remember and its gonna bug the hell outta me until I remember

# ? Sep 19, 2018 02:20

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

Another cool thing I like that I haven't mentioned yet (oops) is that the grave used to teleport to the DLC from the Dream is the same one we found the Old Hunter Bone at in the real world- said item describes its owner as a 'he', but the original JP description doesn't mention a gender. It's also the same one the Doll kneels at.

ComicsandSlushies posted:

man Lady Maria has one of the coolest boss fights in the game and the music that plays during the fight is one of my favorites in the OST

also what was the song you had playing during the end bit about her? It sounds familiar but I can't remember and its gonna bug the hell outta me until I remember

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF3xCifQ290

It's one of my favorite Silent Hill songs!

Lord_Magmar posted:

So, now that we’ve met Maria my opinion is the research hall is formed from her memories. It is highly likely she either committed suicide in real life, or less likely but still possible was killed by a member of the Executioners. Either way there is a coffin at the back of the clock tower which I assume exists in the real world and is probably hers.

By this same token the first area of the DLC I imagine is primarily formed of Ludwig’s and maybe Laurence’s memories of Yharnam. There’s something else going on too but I’ll wait until the DLC is over to share my thoughts.

That coffin is really interesting, and given the flowers on it that would make sense. That was my assumption too.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 02:55

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

CJacobs posted:

said item describes its owner as a 'he', but the original JP description doesn't mention a gender

FWIW, Japanese doesn't have a grammatical gender, as such. There's no distinction between "a hunter," "a huntress," or "a number of hunters/esses, plural," at least not in a regular sentence. This is kind of hard to describe meaningfully if you've never learned anything about Romance languages like French or Spanish, which are strongly gendered, while English is kind of not, but still more so than Japanese. If something is referred to as male in a high-quality translation like this one, it's probably because behind-the-scenes information was given to the translators and the specifically male indication was intended as such. They used to do it more or less randomly, but not so much these days.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 03:15

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

Cardiovorax posted:

If something is referred to as male in a high-quality translation like this one, it's probably because behind-the-scenes information was given to the translators and the specifically male indication was intended as such. They used to do it more or less randomly, but not so much these days.

I disagree. It happens pretty frequently in Souls games because the translators try to use context clues to determine if a character is male or female when no gender is specified. Sometimes they get it right (Witch Beatrice in Dark Souls 1) and sometimes they get it wrong (Pharis in the same game). The Throne Watcher in DS2 is another example, the character is pretty clearly female but the translators probably didn't get to look at the actual model or visuals and so they had to guess. The translation of the Souls games has always been very good and they avoid the Demon's Souls problem of taking things far too literally, but the one area the translators slip up is when they have to come up with something that's not directly from the text.

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Sep 19, 2018

# ? Sep 19, 2018 03:42

thetruegentleman: Feb 5, 2011; You call that potato a Trump avatar?

THIS is a Trump Avatar!

CJacobs posted:

Another cool thing I like that I haven't mentioned yet (oops) is that the grave used to teleport to the DLC from the Dream is the same one we found the Old Hunter Bone at in the real world- said item describes its owner as a 'he', but the original JP description doesn't mention a gender. It's also the same one the Doll kneels at.

"He" is a perfectly valid use when gender is unspecified: some people tried to do the same thing with "she," but it never caught on, nor did "he or she" because that's three loving syllables. This is all because Grammar Nazis decided that using "they" in ambiguous situations is somehow worse than "he," presumably because someone might believe there's multiple people involved, even though that very use is far less confusing than the other bullshit in the English language that's never been addressed (like homophones) and "they" has been used in this very capacity for centuries.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 04:20

Lord_Magmar: Feb 24, 2015; "Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"

CJacobs posted:

Another cool thing I like that I haven't mentioned yet (oops) is that the grave used to teleport to the DLC from the Dream is the same one we found the Old Hunter Bone at in the real world- said item describes its owner as a 'he', but the original JP description doesn't mention a gender. It's also the same one the Doll kneels at.

I have a theory as to where that bone is from too that's different from the norm, and is based on the ambiguity of the item description. But that's another thing for after the DLC because there's still more secrets to reveal before I can go in on what I think is actually going on here, and the game as a whole.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 04:27

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

thetruegentleman posted:

"He" is a perfectly valid use when gender is unspecified: some people tried to do the same thing with "she," but it never caught on, nor did "he or she" because that's three loving syllables. This is all because Grammar Nazis decided that using "they" in ambiguous situations is somehow worse than "he," presumably because someone might believe there's multiple people involved, even though that very use is far less confusing than the other bullshit in the English language that's never been addressed (like homophones) and "they" has been used in this very capacity for centuries.

Well, it is in the same way people say 'man' as a general form of 'human' or 'mankind', yes. The problem in this case though is that the gender is specified, the item is pretty clearly referring to Maria. The clues are all there from the location to its description and the mention of Gehrman to Maria herself using the same power. The only thing stopping it from being outright confirmed is the translation, because 'he' isn't ambiguous enough when you're referring to a specific person in English without naming them beforehand. Again, this has happened before, with Dark Souls 1 referring to Pharis as male even though she's physically in the game and shoots arrows at your face.

How did the bone get to that spot where we picked it up? I dunno, but it's in such a specific symbolic spot that I doubt it's supposed to refer to just some random other protege. Outside of Dark Souls 2 namedropping unseen faces and places all over the place, these games don't really do that kind of thing.

edit: However, what I will say is that Maria goes unmentioned until the DLC, at which point references to her become apparent in hindsight- The hair ornament and so on. What could have happened is that the translators would have put 'she' if they knew Maria existed, but as there is no mention of her elsewhere and the DLC wasn't conceptualized yet, they had no way to know. In that case they either defaulted to 'he' as a pure guess or are using it in the way you suggest, which imo is less likely because they could have just put 'they'.

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Sep 19, 2018

# ? Sep 19, 2018 04:30

Lord_Magmar: Feb 24, 2015; "Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"

CJacobs posted:

Well, it is in the same way people say 'man' as a general form of 'human' or 'mankind', yes. The problem in this case though is that the gender is specified, the item is pretty clearly referring to Maria. The clues are all there from the location to its description and the mention of Gehrman to Maria herself using the same power. The only thing stopping it from being outright confirmed is the translation, because 'he' isn't ambiguous enough when you're referring to a specific person in English without naming them beforehand. Again, this has happened before, with Dark Souls 1 referring to Pharis as male even though she's physically in the game and shoots arrows at your face.

How did the bone get to that spot where we picked it up? I dunno, but it's in such a specific symbolic spot that I doubt it's supposed to refer to just some random other protege. Outside of Dark Souls 2 namedropping unseen faces and places all over the place, these games don't really do that kind of thing.

edit: However, what I will say is that Maria goes unmentioned until the DLC, at which point references to her become apparent in hindsight- The hair ornament and so on. What could have happened is that the translators would have put 'she' if they knew Maria existed, but as there is no mention of her elsewhere and the DLC wasn't conceptualized yet, they had no way to know. In that case they either defaulted to 'he' as a pure guess or are using it in the way you suggest, which imo is less likely because they could have just put 'they'.

See, I don't think the Old Hunter's Bone refers to Maria myself, but as I said I have my own opinion as to what it is and why it's where it is that will have to wait until the DLC is over for an explanation. I will say it's not some random other protege and I think the way the description is written is ambiguous on purpose because it's from the PC Hunter point of view. The Hair Ornament was definitely intended for her, and the Doll definitely made in her image, but both of those also relate to Gehrman's obsession with her and based on her story I don't think she's been to the Real Hunter's Workshop in a very, very long time relatively speaking.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 04:39

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

Item descriptions, at least in Bloodborne, are generally written from second person for some reason. See the Cainhurst Summons (one of my favorite item descriptions):

quote:

An old blood-stained summons, inviting an honored guest to the forsaken Castle Cainhurst.

Rather bafflingly, it is addressed to you.

Do not hesitate; the stagecoach leaves from Hemwick crossing.

The game's item descriptions are omniscient and sometimes have a sense of humor you don't see in other Souls games, which is something I really appreciate.

quote:

Small pebbles found throughout Yhamam.

Can be thrown at foes.

Quite thrilling.

edit: Here's another good one that demonstrates the perspective they're written from. I guess this is minor spoilers for the next episode, but there's a reason I didn't read the description of the Brain Fluid we've had Adeline slurp up.

quote:

Greyish amoeba-shaped brain fluid. Wobbles and bounces.

Extracted from a patient whose head expanded until that was all that they were.

In the early days of the Healing Church, the Great Ones were linked to the ocean, and so the cerebral patients would imbibe water, and listen for the howl of the sea. Brain fluid writhed inside the head, the initial makings of internal eyes.

Once, a young girl had an older brother who was determined to become a doctor, and so she wilfully became his patient. In the end, this led to their encounter with the Eldritch Truth, for which they considered themselves blessed.

We fail to realize our own latent potential, until the moment it is lost, and we sense its absence. Ironically, this is the very nature of insight, like the moment one licks one's own blood, only to be startled by its sweetness.

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Sep 19, 2018

# ? Sep 19, 2018 04:52

Lord_Magmar: Feb 24, 2015; "Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"

The Cainhurst Summons always seemed to be like it's the Hunter commenting on how baffling it is to have a Letter addressed to them, but fair. Also yes, I think Bloodborne definitely has a good sense of humor going on. For example the Crow that jumps down from the rafters after you raise the stairs drops a "Guidance" Rune. Which you usually get by following it off the rafter. Honestly was a bit sad you didn't show that off, it seemed like the sort of little thing you'd love to show off in an LP based on your other LPs.

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Sep 19, 2018

# ? Sep 19, 2018 04:59

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

By the way, the fourth line of that Brain Fluid description only appears on the second one we picked up, from the patient head going on about "Lady Maria I'm a robin I can fly drip drip". The implication there is that she is the sister, and the enemy hunter with the double pistol we killed was her brother the doctor. Whoops!

Lord_Magmar posted:

The Cainhurst Summons always seemed to be like it's the Hunter commenting on how baffling it is to have a Letter addressed to them, but fair. Also yes, I think Bloodborne definitely has a good sense of humor going on. For example the Crow that jumps down from the rafters after you raise the stairs drops a "Guidance" Rune. Which presumably you get by following it off the rafter. Honestly was a bit sad you didn't show that off, it seemed like the sort of little thing you'd love to show off in an LP based on your other LPs.

There were a few things I forgot in the Research Hall because it's so massive and that was one of them. I also didn't pick up the Loch Shield because I have no idea how to get to the drat thing! But I commented on its existence earlier in the LP so that's good enough for me.

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Sep 19, 2018

# ? Sep 19, 2018 05:01

Tempest_56: Mar 14, 2009

ComicsandSlushies posted:

man Lady Maria has one of the coolest boss fights in the game and the music that plays during the fight is one of my favorites in the OST

I personally like that you can see the 'lineage' of the fight - if you watch how she moves and compare it to other games, it's easy to see she builds off of the Artorias fight in DS1 and in turn that the Abyss Watchers in DS3 draw heavily from her.

Not coincidentally, all are drat fun fights for similar reasons.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 05:25

CommissarMega: Nov 18, 2008; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Man, I was kind of disappointed in the fight, because the first time I watched you fight it was in one of your streams and that was an amazing depiction of schadenfreude :v:

Also love how even though she's totally against the use of blood magic, she uses it against you liberally to prevent you from finding out the secrets of Cainhurst; it really shows you how deep a shitpit you've stepped in.
_{_{_{_{_{_{_{_{Also watching her kick your rear end kinda gave me a massive crush on her ye gods}}}}}}}}

CommissarMega fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Sep 19, 2018

# ? Sep 19, 2018 06:32

mortons stork: Oct 13, 2012

Tempest_56 posted:

I personally like that you can see the 'lineage' of the fight - if you watch how she moves and compare it to other games, it's easy to see she builds off of the Artorias fight in DS1 and in turn that the Abyss Watchers in DS3 draw heavily from her.

Not coincidentally, all are drat fun fights for similar reasons.

Also in DS3, you can clearly see the 2nd and third phase influences from Maria in Sister _loving Friede (god I hate that one)

# ? Sep 19, 2018 08:13

Antistar01: Oct 20, 2013

^^^^^^^^^^^^ Edit: Wow.... jinx. :v:

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tempest_56 posted:

I personally like that you can see the 'lineage' of the fight - if you watch how she moves and compare it to other games, it's easy to see she builds off of the Artorias fight in DS1 and in turn that the Abyss Watchers in DS3 draw heavily from her.

Not coincidentally, all are drat fun fights for similar reasons.

The Maria fight was reminding me of the boss at the end of the Ashes of Ariandel DLC for Dark Souls 3... coincidentally the fight I had the most trouble with out of all the fights in the entire Dark Souls series. I think it took me over four hours to get past that.

The nostalgia was really kicking in with that Silent Hill 4 song. At first I couldn't place exactly which SH game it was from (out of 2, 3 and 4). I was thinking SH2 for a moment there, considering - you know... "Maria".

Antistar01 fucked around with this message at 08:17 on Sep 19, 2018

# ? Sep 19, 2018 08:13

Cardiovorax: Jun 5, 2011; I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

CJacobs posted:

The translation of the Souls games has always been very good and they avoid the Demon's Souls problem of taking things far too literally, but the one area the translators slip up is when they have to come up with something that's not directly from the text.

I suppose that's fair, but as a general thing, I wouldn't suggest starting out from the assumption that they conveniently hosed up in a non-disprovable manner in just the right place to fit a particular pet theory. That's the kind of thing that gets you "Solaire is the firstborn." That the sentence isn't gendered in Japanese is in and of itself no real indication of anything because prior to translation, none of them were.

Cardiovorax fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Sep 19, 2018

# ? Sep 19, 2018 08:53

Philippe: Aug 9, 2013; (she/her)

mortons stork posted:

Also in DS3, you can clearly see the 2nd and third phase influences from Maria in Sister _loving Friede (god I hate that one)

Sister Friede suffers from the Dark Souls 3 boss fight problem* of "having one phase too many and you have to do them all in one go". If you could do phase 1 and 2, die on phase 3, and come back to do phase 3 on its own it'd be fine, but demanding sustained perfection is Garbage.

*) As distinct from the Dark Souls 2 boss fight problem of "just another dude in armor, yawnorama".

# ? Sep 19, 2018 09:12

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

Case in point, here's one of Friede's attacks that might look a little familiar!

# ? Sep 19, 2018 09:15

Hunt11: Jul 24, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Lord_Magmar posted:

So, now that we�ve met Maria my opinion is the research hall is formed from her memories. It is highly likely she either committed suicide in real life, or less likely but still possible was killed by a member of the Executioners. Either way there is a coffin at the back of the clock tower which I assume exists in the real world and is probably hers.

By this same token the first area of the DLC I imagine is primarily formed of Ludwig�s and maybe Laurence�s memories of Yharnam. There�s something else going on too but I�ll wait until the DLC is over to share my thoughts.

I disagree on your interpretation but that is because of a certain infamous area that will be coming up soon.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 09:17

Lord_Magmar: Feb 24, 2015; "Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"

Oh actually one thing I can explain is my thoughts on why the living failures failed but the celestial emissary succeeded. During the time of the research hall the Healing Church had not encountered Ebrietas, daughter of the cosmos, which means they did not have a pure source of the Old Blood. Thus the Living Failures remained misshapen and not truly, Kin of the Cosmos like the Celestial Emissary became.

The reason they hadn�t yet encountered Ebrietas is because they had no need to go anywhere ancient but the Pthumerian dungeons, thanks to the Chalice they already had possession of which would become lost when the burning of Old Yharnam occurred. Ordered to hide the true nature of the Ashen Plague and the transformation of Laurence.

This was brought on by your discussion of how the Grand Cathedral Orphanage and Research hall connect, which I agree with, but disagree that they all were operating at the same time on the same sort of research. The Research Hall feels like it came before th Church split into the Scholars of Mensis and the Choir.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 10:52

DeafNote: Jun 4, 2014; Only Happy When It Rains

Friede technically has just as many phases as Maria does. Maria is just more streamlined, all her attacks stay the same except for added blood and then fire.
(Ludwig is more closer to Friede in that regard)
And yes she is my favorite fight of the DLC, so much so that I hated beating her with saw cleaver spam the first time around.
Her music grew on me too.
and sometimes the music glitches out and clings to the first phase, even after she herself is in her second phase.
(At that point I just let her kill me, since I want no part of such an uncinematic experience)

# ? Sep 19, 2018 11:48

mortons stork: Oct 13, 2012

DeafNote posted:

and sometimes the music glitches out and clings to the first phase, even after she herself is in her second phase.
(At that point I just let her kill me, since I want no part of such an uncinematic experience)

I think in the video that's what happened.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 11:55

DeafNote: Jun 4, 2014; Only Happy When It Rains

mortons stork posted:

I think in the video that's what happened.

Outrageous. Everyone has to hear the full song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3bityYL1G8

# ? Sep 19, 2018 11:59

Megillah Gorilla: Sep 22, 2003; If only all of life's problems could be solved by smoking a professor of ancient evil texts.; Bread Liar

CJacobs posted:

Item descriptions, at least in Bloodborne, are generally written from second person for some reason. See the Cainhurst Summons (one of my favorite item descriptions):

That's how it used to be taught in Commonwealth countries.

It can be annoying as hell to wrestle a sentence into second person, especially when you're just writing notes for yourself.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 12:16

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

mortons stork posted:

I think in the video that's what happened.

Yeah, I talked about the music ramping up in my commentary because it really really does, but unfortunately my game bugged out and it didn't end up doing it in the recording, even in the footage you saw in the failure reel (and that was like 4 or 5 fights over two different sessions!)

edit: In order to make it happen, I would have had to keep trying it over and over in "cinematic recording gameplay mode" until it happened to work right and that's just not worth it because man that fight is really hard!!

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Sep 19, 2018

# ? Sep 19, 2018 12:26

CommissarMega: Nov 18, 2008; THUNDERDOME LOSER

CJacobs posted:

man that fight is really hard!!

How long did it take you in that one stream of yours? An hour or so? It lasted a loooong time, I'm sure of that at least.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 12:31

CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

I assume you're talking about the Amygdalan Arm stream, which was a ton of fun until I had to fight a boss lol. Maria is a major hurdle for me on every playthrough because I wanna parry her so bad all the time, which results in me missing the timing because I suck at parrying and getting stunlocked in the face to death. And as a strength character parries do exactly squat for damage so even then you can't actually use them to hurt her. The only reason Jill even stood a chance in this LP is because I pumped STR and SKL about evenly.

edit: I've mentioned this once before but I actually went into the DLC early because doing it the absolute endgame ruins the pacing and locks you out of some really important dialogue. Generally speaking I was ahead of the curve on levels because I don't lose a single bloodstain with souls in it over the whole LP... but bosses in the DLC expect your stats to be above and beyond the standard area enemies which is a shame.

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Sep 19, 2018

# ? Sep 19, 2018 12:38

placid saviour: Apr 6, 2009

I've watched two Bloodborne LP's to completion and even read the long-rear end academic style paper that one internet person did on it, but I'm still unclear on if the history of Yharnam plays out over, like, 200 years or more like 50.

Timelines are hard.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 13:15

Lord_Magmar: Feb 24, 2015; "Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"

Interestingly, the DLC actually scales fine in NG+ and above, sure things have a lot of health and hit hard but that's everywhere in NG+ and the difficulty spike is less of a thing because of it.

placid saviour posted:

I've watched two Bloodborne LP's to completion and even read the long-rear end academic style paper that one internet person did on it, but I'm still unclear on if the history of Yharnam plays out over, like, 200 years or more like 50.

Timelines are hard.

I'd say 100 is the most likely, if only because the Abandoned Hunter's Workshop has to be old enough to have faded from memory the way it has by modern times, but young enough for it to be contempary with the Healing Church, which is younger than Master Willem who even if he's extremely old I don't think he's 200 years old, 150 maybe.

Anywhere between 100-300 years sounds reasonable for everything to have happened, and something later in the DLC might actually help work it out thanks to wording and the various "generations" of hunters that have existed so far in Yharnam.

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Sep 19, 2018

# ? Sep 19, 2018 15:11

CommissarMega: Nov 18, 2008; THUNDERDOME LOSER

What's still unclear to me is if Yharnam is actually a physical place, a really vivid waking dream, or a dream in the Lovecraftian sense (it's totally real, you just can't access it unless you're asleep or the like).

# ? Sep 19, 2018 15:21

Jonny Nox: Apr 26, 2008

CommissarMega posted:

What's still unclear to me is if Yharnam is actually a physical place, a really vivid waking dream, or a dream in the Lovecraftian sense (it's totally real, you just can't access it unless you're asleep or the like).

it's a video game. Therefore none of it is real. Therefore all of it can be equally real!

edit: Wait tone doesn't transfer on the internet. I'm saying that because it is a work of fiction it may be a fools errand to establish certain facts as "real" and others as "dream". If you embrace all as canon and lean into and enjoy any possible dichotomies that may create you've enjoyed a truly valid way of evaluating the fiction.

Jonny Nox fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Sep 19, 2018

# ? Sep 19, 2018 15:27

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CJacobs: Apr 17, 2011; Reach for the moon!

CommissarMega posted:

What's still unclear to me is if Yharnam is actually a physical place, a really vivid waking dream, or a dream in the Lovecraftian sense (it's totally real, you just can't access it unless you're asleep or the like).

Yharnam is a real physical place, but the recent cthulu invasion has caused the pin keeping its timeline stuck to the wall to fall out. Hence, Old Yharnam is still burning and inhabited despite being the Church's earliest failure, and so on.

edit: Strictly speaking, Yharnam is the real world as we know it. By killing Rom we accidentally blurred the line a little bit, but in its default untouched state Yharnam is as real as it gets. It's just another alternate dimension in the grand scheme of things just like the Nightmare and the Dream, but it's as close as we have to a 'prime' dimension.

Basically, worlds found in the Nightmare plane and Dream plane have to be created by somebody's consciousness, but they can exist without it afterward even if the host is no longer a factor. They become real places in alternate dimensions for reasons we will soon find out. Yharnam- again, the 'real' world -does not, it already existed before any of that did and nobody had to create it. The Nightmare Frontier would be its Nightmare plane equivalent.

CJacobs fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Sep 19, 2018

# ? Sep 19, 2018 15:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Do Hunters Dream of Lovecraftian Sheep? - Let's Play Bloodborne

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