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iospace posted:Amazon is also the company that treats its workers like utter poo poo, and investors are hoping that it becomes the norm so more money ultimately flows to them. See also: Uber. There's other reasons why stock does well, but that's the main reason that I mentioned.
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Sep 19, 2018 18:55
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ate all the Oreos posted:friend of mine is a pharmacist and tried but they don't accept pharmacists or the form doesn't have an entry for it or something If they're looking for which industrial union to specify, they'd be under 601 (Health Service Workers). But that shouldn't be a bar to joining, and you can switch if necessary (eg I switched into 690 for a time). literally the only bar to joining would be if they don't meet these requirements: quote:You are a worker (not an employer); feel free to PM if you wanna talk in more detail about this or get them some help with joining ChickenOfTomorrow fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Sep 19, 2018 |
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Sep 19, 2018 19:06
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coffeetable posted:i am coming to think of getting angry at individual companies for this stuff as daft because it goes on absolutely everywhere. decided it's more productive to get angry at my representatives for having laws that allow it you're getting there, but why not try going one step further out and getting angry at the system that causes it (capitalism must be destroyed)
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Sep 19, 2018 19:07
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:(capitalism must be destroyed)
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Sep 19, 2018 19:10
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coffeetable posted:i am coming to think of getting angry at individual companies for this stuff as daft because it goes on absolutely everywhere. decided it's more productive to get angry at my representatives for having laws that allow it ChickenOfTomorrow posted:(capitalism must be destroyed)
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Sep 19, 2018 19:10
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Chalks posted:SpaceEggs it'd be either SpaceEX or SpaceXXX but I think the former is more likely
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Sep 19, 2018 19:12
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most stocks don't pay dividends, and may never pay a dividend. paying a dividend is basically a tax obligation for the recipient (and not deductible by the payer) and an admission by the company that they don't know what else to do with the money other than return some of it to shareholders. its just moving money around and provides an alternative from selling the underlying stock for cash companies like apple issue bonds to pay dividends instead of repatriating the cash held overseas because again, dividends are not deductible, but interest payments are, and interest rates are hilariously low, so they can issue debt at a few % interest versus paying taxes at 20%+
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Sep 19, 2018 19:28
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comedyblissoption posted:im the non-voting stock that removes any doubt that it's just gambling I still am in awe of that getting approved.
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Sep 19, 2018 19:46
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:If they're looking for which industrial union to specify, they'd be under 601 (Health Service Workers). But that shouldn't be a bar to joining, and you can switch if necessary (eg I switched into 690 for a time). what defines an employer cause only a company would be an employer, not a person.
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Sep 19, 2018 20:35
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Shaggar posted:what defines an employer cause only a company would be an employer, not a person. years ago i was told that you couldn't be in the iww if you could hire or fire someone. don't know how official that is/was though.
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Sep 19, 2018 20:41
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lol if true
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Sep 19, 2018 20:41
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Shaggar is the Tesla of cars. Thinks he's all that, but really everyone hates him
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Sep 19, 2018 20:46
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iospace posted:Shaggar is the Tesla of cars. Thinks he's all that, but really everyone hates him ooh ooh
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Sep 19, 2018 20:49
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Shaggar posted:lol if true unions have a clear delineation from management and not having one results in stupid poo poo like police "unions" with zero chance of any kind of balanced accountability structure
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Sep 19, 2018 20:57
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in canada at least i believe the police union is technically a "Professional Association"
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Sep 19, 2018 21:17
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guys they replaced dividends with stock buybacks a while back. try to keep up ok
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Sep 19, 2018 21:42
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iospace posted:The stock market reflects one thing and one thing only: a company's ability to pay dividends. this is 100% false lmao did you pull that take out of a lovely 1960s textbook (not that it was even true then) incels interlinked posted:most stocks don't pay dividends, and may never pay a dividend. paying a dividend is basically a tax obligation for the recipient (and not deductible by the payer) and an admission by the company that they don't know what else to do with the money other than return some of it to shareholders. its just moving money around and provides an alternative from selling the underlying stock for cash correct. certainly when you're a company that has decided to start paying dividends to stockholders, it becomes expected you will continue to do so as long as possible, and you'd even end up in a situation where a company would do short term loans and poo poo to pay out because suddenly missing a payment looks mad sketchy.
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Sep 19, 2018 21:43
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"the working class and the employing class have nothing in common" is literally one of the slogans of iww and lol if you think your off the cuff "well actually" is more powerful than the legacy of hundreds of people who lived, worked, fought and died for the One Big Union, or, hell, Marxism The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggle also tesla sucks
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Sep 19, 2018 21:43
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shareholders expect dividends and i need cash now!
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Sep 19, 2018 21:45
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fishmech posted:this is 100% false lmao Thanks for the explanations, both you and incels interlinked. I stand corrected! Related: death to capitalism iospace fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Sep 19, 2018 |
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Sep 19, 2018 21:46
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share prices are nominally expectations of future cash flow actually? who loving knows. its whatever u want them to be bby
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Sep 19, 2018 22:01
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fishmech posted:
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Sep 19, 2018 22:06
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one of the (many) reasons organizing has been so difficult in tech is because there’s fuzzy edges between workers and managers, I know “vice presidents” with zero reports and people listed as ICs who manage 4 people [in addition to their individual contributor duties] this isn’t an unsolvable problem but it’s something to think about wrt traditional union language
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Sep 19, 2018 22:11
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Do you have people under you, as in are you a boss of someone? Congrats, you're management. 
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Sep 19, 2018 22:19
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qirex posted:one of the (many) reasons organizing has been so difficult in tech is because there’s fuzzy edges between workers and managers, I know “vice presidents” with zero reports and people listed as ICs who manage 4 people [in addition to their individual contributor duties] it's mostly untangling 'managing' someone ie: dictating work and actually having control over their pay/employement status. i doubt it's something a real union would struggle with
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Sep 19, 2018 22:21
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unions still have hierarchies and leaders and members in positions of authorityRex-Goliath posted:it's mostly untangling 'managing' someone ie: dictating work and actually having control over their pay/employement status. i doubt it's something a real union would struggle with yeah my federal union has pretty clear rules on what positions are and are not bargaining unit and im not sure its ever been a serious issue. but there is also clear delineation between management/executive and employees who might be in supervisory positions but don't have final say in performance related issues. ex: i might have to quit the union if i get a job i applied for bc part of it would be handling grievances
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Sep 19, 2018 22:25
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i think the main problem used to be that everyone was making fat stacks for basically nothing back in the dot-com days which sort of poisoned the well for everyone who was part of it. i think that era is far enough away in the rear view mirror that it should become easier and easier to organize. god could you even imagine what a tech worker strike could look like? imagine the stock exchange being forced to shut down
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Sep 19, 2018 22:25
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:"the working class and the employing class have nothing in common" is literally one of the slogans of iww and lol if you think your off the cuff "well actually" is more powerful than the legacy of hundreds of people who lived, worked, fought and died for the One Big Union, or, hell, Marxism lol. iww and marxists are dumb as poo poo
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Sep 19, 2018 22:30
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iospace posted:Do you have people under you, as in are you a boss of someone? So if you get promoted to be nominally in charge of a small group do you have to turn in your badge and your gun? Does the union have to roll you out or how does this work? The bigwigs in the unions are all line workers after like 35 years?
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Sep 19, 2018 22:36
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Shaggar posted:lol. iww and marxists are dumb as poo poo Don't sign your posts. Sell your car, by the way. Rex-Goliath posted:i think the main problem used to be that everyone was making fat stacks for basically nothing back in the dot-com days which sort of poisoned the well for everyone who was part of it. i think that era is far enough away in the rear view mirror that it should become easier and easier to organize.  As for the rest, I think that's exactly it. The whole "temporarily embarrassed millionaire" mindset is really prevalent in the tech world, especially when you take the whole dot-com boom into affect, and everyone wants to be the next Uber.
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Sep 19, 2018 22:37
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TK-42-1 posted:So if you get promoted to be nominally in charge of a small group do you have to turn in your badge and your gun? Does the union have to roll you out or how does this work? The bigwigs in the unions are all line workers after like 35 years? I was mostly taking the piss, to be honest. It would get hashed out drat quick as to who would be management and who wouldn't be, and it probably would include the low-level team leaders who aren't really management, or in other words: incels interlinked posted:unions still have hierarchies and leaders and members in positions of authority a better explanation.
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Sep 19, 2018 22:38
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qirex posted:one of the (many) reasons organizing has been so difficult in tech is because there’s fuzzy edges between workers and managers, I know “vice presidents” with zero reports and people listed as ICs who manage 4 people [in addition to their individual contributor duties] I think it has more to do with how insanely easy programmers have it. We get paid an insane amount of money compared to the difficulty of our job, and (at least in larger cities) can jump around jobs with relative ease. I joined IWW in part because I think we'll see the end of that within our life time. It must drive tech companies nuts how much they spend on developers, don't think those Teach Kids To Code initiatives are anything but an attempt to correct this (but regardless I support them, I think programming is a great skill to learn) If there was any hint of interest in forming a union at a dev shop I'd be all over it, and someday there will be.
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Sep 19, 2018 22:52
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Rex-Goliath posted:god could you even imagine what a tech worker strike could look like? imagine the stock exchange being forced to shut down stock exchange netflix amazon imagine them all shut down 
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Sep 19, 2018 22:58
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bob dobbs is dead posted:stock exchange no matter who wins, we.... win 
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Sep 19, 2018 23:00
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can we keep youtube or whatever less poo poo alternative is around at the time, please
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Sep 19, 2018 23:01
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Ciaphas posted:can we keep youtube or whatever less poo poo alternative is around at the time, please No. Because youtube comments exist, thus it must go.
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Sep 19, 2018 23:04
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iospace posted:No. You have the ability to you know, not read them.
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Sep 19, 2018 23:04
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i got an extension to not render that section of the webpage like a dog's age ago
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Sep 19, 2018 23:05
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TK-42-1 posted:So if you get promoted to be nominally in charge of a small group do you have to turn in your badge and your gun? Does the union have to roll you out or how does this work? The bigwigs in the unions are all line workers after like 35 years? the problem here is that you can have situation where a supervisor and worker have a contractual disagreement. If both are part of the same bargaining unit, the union is compelled to defend both to its fullest abilities which is often not possible due to that inherent conflict of interests. so you need a line in the sand between employees and supervisors, represented by different parties. supervisors/managers can have their own union or professional association for this. if you are managing non-union employees/temps/students/interns then you can probably stay but it depends on the union and contract BangersInMyKnickers fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Sep 19, 2018 |
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Sep 19, 2018 23:08
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TK-42-1 posted:So if you get promoted to be nominally in charge of a small group do you have to turn in your badge and your gun? Does the union have to roll you out or how does this work? The bigwigs in the unions are all line workers after like 35 years? I think a lot of people work their entire lives and don't transition into management... I expect I'll probably do the same.
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Sep 19, 2018 23:10
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