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Improbable Lobster
Jan 6, 2012

What is the Matrix 🌐? We just don't know 😎.


Buglord

haveblue posted:

it tells you there’s an Xbox in front of you

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President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)

graph posted:

do you go for the cocktail sauce or do you go for the straight up fresh lemon juice

i cannot turn down cocktail sauce.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

fishmech posted:

which allows you to determine what heading you must have

please describe the steps that must be taken to do this in a real world situation (eg no “subtract the drift vector” because you don’t know the drift vector in real life)

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004


image text goes here

graph posted:

is it tonkatsu or is it schnitzel ?!



schnitzel

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

President Beep posted:

i cannot turn down cocktail sauce.

horseradish ftw

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

fishmech posted:

which allows you to determine what heading you must have

what is the definition of heading? :allears:

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)

Feisty-Cadaver posted:

horseradish ftw

on shrimp? intriguing!

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)

hobbesmaster posted:

what is the definition of heading? :allears:

from the fishmech dictionary:

heading, n. the thing gps tells you.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

fishmech posted:

yep, you can!

i think alot of people have repeatedly said you cannot

but just to clarify

you can infer heading based on gps, you physically and mathematically cannot determine it

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

haveblue posted:

it tells you there’s an Xbox in front of you

precisely

FrozenVent posted:

please describe the steps that must be taken to do this in a real world situation (eg no “subtract the drift vector” because you don’t know the drift vector in real life)

congrats on claiming it's impossible to ever determine any locational information ever.

first you receive gps signals, then you track the results. simple.

M_Gargantua posted:

i think alot of people have repeatedly said you cannot

but just to clarify

you can infer heading based on gps, you physically and mathematically cannot determine it
ah again the "no location information is possible" argument.

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004


image text goes here
man, it might be time to put fishmech back in coupons just for the sake of his own mental health

Midjack
Dec 24, 2007



Feisty-Cadaver posted:

horseradish ftw

gonna try this, thanks

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.

President Beep posted:

on shrimp? intriguing!

no its in the cocktail sauce, that's why it's so delicious.

fun fact: you can mace yourself really easily if you make your own horseradish in a food processor so beeeeeeee careful.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
but it's so worth it to get real horseradish instead of the weak-rear end garbage you get from the store.

thanks granddad for teachin' me that

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

fishmech posted:

track your locations over time and compare it.

Godholio posted:

HEADING IS NOT NECESSARILY DIRECTION OF TRAVEL

FrozenVent posted:

that’s course over ground, not heading

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004


image text goes here
on fried shrimp i like a bit of chinese mustard along with tartar sauce

rjmccall
Sep 7, 2007

no worries friend
Fun Shoe

FrozenVent posted:

doesn’t SF have sandbanks all the way out?

there is a ring of sand banks around the golden gate like a medieval bulwark with one narrow channel shooting through it

but once you’re through that you just stay away from the islands

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

graph posted:

is it tonkatsu or is it schnitzel ?!



thats absolutely a schnitzel you kitchen pleb

President Beep
Apr 30, 2009





i have to have a car because otherwise i cant drive around the country solving mysteries while being doggedly pursued by federal marshals for a crime i did not commit (9/11)

Feisty-Cadaver posted:

no its in the cocktail sauce, that's why it's so delicious.

oh lol. that makes sense then. ty.

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

guess what though, you can determine your heading from this data!

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

fishmech posted:

precisely


congrats on claiming it's impossible to ever determine any locational information ever.

first you receive gps signals, then you track the results. simple.

ah again the "no location information is possible" argument.

you are overtyly ignoring the definitions of location vs direction and direction vs disance

freezepops
Aug 21, 2007
witty title not included
Fun Shoe
I swim south at 4 kts
the current flows north at 5 kts

what is my heading? (south)
what is my GPS track? (north)

you loving idiot.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

Feisty-Cadaver posted:

no its in the cocktail sauce, that's why it's so delicious.

fun fact: you can mace yourself really easily if you make your own horseradish in a food processor so beeeeeeee careful.

horseradish based cocktail sauce on shrimp is the #2 seafood compliment

#1 being grapefruit garlic sauce on raw oysters ofc

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

fishmech posted:

guess what though, you can determine your heading from this data!

~SCREAMING EXTERNALLY ABOUT THE LAWS OF MATHEMATICS AND PHYSICS~

Stringent
Dec 22, 2004


image text goes here
cocktail sauce on fried shrimp sounds kinda gross tbh. it's great on boiled tho.

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe
I guess we found the reason fishmech veers off course so often

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

freezepops posted:

I swim south at 4 kts
the current flows north at 5 kts

what is my heading? (south)
what is my GPS track? (north)

you loving idiot.

cool so simply consult further gps data and you will determine your heading.

M_Gargantua posted:

~SCREAMING EXTERNALLY ABOUT THE LAWS OF MATHEMATICS AND PHYSICS~

you mean the laws that let you reconstruct what your heading must be?

Godholio
Aug 28, 2002

Does a bear split in the woods near Zheleznogorsk?

fishmech posted:

cool so simply consult further gps data and you will determine your heading.


you mean the laws that let you reconstruct what your heading must be?

What do you think heading means?

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

graph posted:

is it tonkatsu or is it schnitzel ?!



Don't care would eat both 10/10

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



fishmech posted:

cool so simply consult further gps data and you will determine your heading.

you mean the laws that let you reconstruct what your heading must be?

lol I can’t tell if ol’ fisherino is being stupid on purpose

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

fishmech posted:

cool so simply consult further gps data and you will determine your heading.

There isn't any further GPS data. That's all the data you can ever get

Achmed Jones posted:

lol I can’t tell if ol’ fisherino is being stupid on purpose

Of course they are

Still, I'm proud to have found fishmech's sigil of entrapment.

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Sep 21, 2018

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

fishmech posted:

cool so simply consult further gps data and you will determine your heading.


you mean the laws that let you reconstruct what your heading must be?

the law, again:

course over ground - drift = ownship motion (heading and speed through the water (sorta))

the problem is that in the real world, you cannot determine drift

so you have COG, and in the real world because you’re not an idiot and have a compass and a speed log (or I guess a pitot log of you’re a plane) you have ownship’s vector

so the real life equation is course over ground - ownship’s vector = drift

you can’t tell the orientation of ownship’s vector without heading data. if you can’t measure ownship’s vector you can’t compensate for drift and you’re hosed

in real life, in practice, most of the time you can actually navigate on the faith of SOG/COG data because you can basically eyeball your drift and iterate a correction; you still won’t know your heading and you won’t be doing any precision instrument stuff but it’s ok

computers like the ones in drones are not good with eyeballing poo poo so they tend to freak out

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon

Godholio posted:

What do you think heading means?

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.
again, GNSS tells you “my antenna is here, also it’s this time”

fancier GPS receivers will go “my antenna is here, also it this time, and my antenna was moved x distance in y direction over the last z period”

it won’t tell you it the antenna was moved because the plane it’s sitting on flew north, or if it got thrown off a trailer truck

fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

Godholio posted:

What do you think heading means?

it's your heading.

Sagebrush posted:

There isn't any further GPS data. That's all the data you can ever get


oh no, i only have all the data i need, how horrible.

FrozenVent posted:

the law, again:

course over ground - drift = ownship motion (heading and speed through the water (sorta))

the problem is that in the real world, you cannot determine drift

so you have COG, and in the real world because you’re not an idiot and have a compass and a speed log (or I guess a pitot log of you’re a plane) you have ownship’s vector

so the real life equation is course over ground - ownship’s vector = drift

you can’t tell the orientation of ownship’s vector without heading data. if you can’t measure ownship’s vector you can’t compensate for drift and you’re hosed

in real life, in practice, most of the time you can actually navigate on the faith of SOG/COG data because you can basically eyeball your drift and iterate a correction; you still won’t know your heading and you won’t be doing any precision instrument stuff but it’s ok

computers like the ones in drones are not good with eyeballing poo poo so they tend to freak out

yeah thats cool you can determine your heading with gps

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

fishmech posted:

it's your heading.


oh no, i only have all the data i need, how horrible.


yeah thats cool you can determine your heading with gps

no you can’t what you keep describing is course over ground dumbass they’re not the same thing

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.
In navigation, the heading of a vessel or aircraft is the compass direction in which the craft's bow or nose is pointed. This may not necessarily be the direction that the vehicle actually travels, which is known as its course or track. Any difference between the heading and course is due to the motion of the underlying medium, the air or water, or other effects like skidding or slipping. The difference is known as the drift, and can be determined by the navigational triangle.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.
I too can wiki, fishmech

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
heading is what we are all doing to our desks right now

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fishmech
Jul 16, 2006

by VideoGames
Salad Prong

FrozenVent posted:

no you can’t what you keep describing is course over ground dumbass they’re not the same thing

"gps doesn't tell you your location it only tells you what time it is in space"

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