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gently caress Adata and their substandard NAND
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Sep 15, 2018 14:59
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“Adata uses substandard nand” sounds like “my soundsystem has warmer sound” to me. What does substandard nand even mean? Is the claim that they don’t meet the speed or durability ratings on the box? And if so, what evidence is there? I don’t own any Adata products but I find it hard to believe that all the people who gave the 8200 good reviews missed some big scam.
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Sep 15, 2018 15:38
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Cygni posted:What does substandard nand even mean? Is the claim that they don’t meet the speed or durability ratings on the box? And if so, what evidence is there?
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Sep 15, 2018 15:40
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:I'm curious whose "substandard NAND" they're accused of using. There are like, 6 manufacturers: Samsung, Toshiba, Sandisk/WD, Micron, Hynix, and Intel. Just look at failure rates for that brand. It's not that they use some other NAND, they use the left overs the major companies don't use for themselves.
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Sep 15, 2018 16:08
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redeyes posted:Just look at failure rates for that brand. I'm reminded of how everyone thought seagate made the most reliable hard drives until backblaze started putting out hard data.
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Sep 15, 2018 16:54
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Klyith posted:Sure, where can I see the real failure rates? ftfy
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Sep 15, 2018 17:26
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:I'm curious whose "substandard NAND" they're accused of using. There are like, 6 manufacturers: Samsung, Toshiba, Sandisk/WD, Micron, Hynix, and Intel. It could be that buying the outside ring of the wafers. Since the outside ring is going to have e the greatest number of defects, they just stick more chips in for the same capacity and use the extra chips for wear leveling. So they could be using the same chips Samsung uses for their pro series drives, but they're the rejects that even Samsung wouldn't use(Hypothetically). That's the only logical thing I can come to on the "substandard" NAND chips.
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Sep 15, 2018 20:56
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the real difference between vendors is the warranty (and ADATA is historically notoriously poo poo), since inferior NAND binning is largely offloaded to house brands like inland or salvage dies like the BX500 (the MLC basically makes up for the inferior TLC retention there). SM/phison SSD controllers have more or less converged towards "competent" and the only real difference is custom firmware, with Micron's custom firmware being the best (yet they still refuse to put out a consumer NVMe drive....) and you never worry about the NAND failing, the controller will poo poo itself long before that becomes a consideration, even with QLC on the horizon. Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Sep 15, 2018 |
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Sep 15, 2018 21:52
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Nobody who buys the Adata SSDs complains about them in the deals threads I monitor (which do feature a lot of previous purchasers sharing their opinions.) I mean I'm sure there are failures, but most users are happy with them, and if you use them as intended (i.e. the SU800 as a 2nd-tier OS drive or the SU650 as bulk storage) I'd bet you'd be satisfied with them. Also on the subject of HDD reliability, my gaming desktop from 2013 has, no joke, a ST3000DM001 that's still working perfectly, ~5.5 years later, and I have another external one attached to the same PC that's been fine for a few years. As I wrote in a different thread a couple months ago, the latter drive was in a Buffalo USB enclosure (the one with 1 GB of DRAM for a write cache) that itself failed, but I shucked the drive and threw it in a new $20 enclosure and it works fine. So I'm aware that this drive model has a bad reputation, and the ones I'm using are long out of their warranty, but they're not in some ridiculous Backblaze storage pod and also they don't get a ton of usage given that I only run the gaming desktop a couple days a week (so maybe ~1k hours per year.)
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Sep 15, 2018 22:11
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5.5 years? I just stopped using a bunch of Maxtor drives with nearly 12 years of power-on time. Maxtor made some crummy drives, from what I remember. I only stopped using the drives because they take up too much room for how big they are (500 GB each).
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Sep 20, 2018 00:38
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Xenomorph posted:5.5 years? It's notable because the seagate drives of that series are now known to be poo poo for reliability. But not quite so poo poo that it's worth pre-emptively throwing them away like the old deathstars. my HDD that died earlier this summer was a ST2000DM. I knew it was sketchy so I didn't have any personal data on it other than a few videogame saves. But even losing poo poo that I could torrent again is annoying. Mine had a lot of power on hours racked up, more than Atomizer it sounds like.
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Sep 20, 2018 00:57
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Xenomorph posted:5.5 years? What Klyith said; you should really Google that model number to see what I was talking about. Certainly there are functioning drives (in general) with more time and power cycles, but those Seagates are ticking bombs if you believed what you'd read about them, and then there's that class-action lawsuit on top of all that.... I'm not saying they're perfect or conversely as bad as that Backblaze report indicated though. My point was that I'd realized I had a couple of those drives in service after learning of their reputation. And my estimate from my previous post was right, the older drive of the two I mentioned only has about 5.5k hours after 5.5 years of use. Part of the reason it's been reliable, I'm sure, is the relatively low workload, but also the fact that it's in a consumer desktop as intended rather than in a high-vibration storage pod. I do have other drives around with far more power-on time, i.e. 20k+, and they all still work; the only dead drive I've encountered in recent memory was a 1 TB 2.5" Toshiba(?) from a gaming laptop that simply died even though it had seen very little use. And wow, I haven't seen a Maxtor drive in years, and until you mentioned them I hadn't realized they weren't around anymore. I just learned they were bought in 2006 by...Seagate.  Since we're on the subject, I went through a box of older HDDs that I'd removed from PCs to make it easier to wipe them in an enclosure. (I did find a few 20-80 GB Maxtor PATA HDDs but they're too small to bother dealing with.) I think 500 GB is capacious enough to still be useful, and am trying to find uses for the lower-capacity drives. I put 3x 250 GB SATA drives striped together in a Shuttle XPC, and they make a nice 750 GB array of 200 MB/s r/w for some games on that older PC. Beyond that, I've got a bunch of 250 GB drives and a handful of 120 & 160 GB ones; they're definitely of limited usefulness, but remember that 120-256 GB SSDs are still useful (for their performance, despite their capacity,) and ultimately they're a cheap (free) way to store some games. The lower-capacity 2.5" drives are more valuable than the 3.5" ones since the former can just go in a cheap <$10 external enclosure and become portable storage, with a single cable and no extra power supply to deal with. Also along these lines, a lot of the older (120-250 GB) drives are PATA, and before I dug them up again I didn't really remember how much I appreciate SATA! Not just for the faster transfer rates and added functions, but those loving ribbon cables and 40-pin connectors, plus the molex power connectors, are sometimes a pain in the rear end to work with! Another issue is squeezing all of the performance out of them, since they're not going to be mounted in a desktop tower, they have to go in an external enclosure. There aren't any native PATA-USB3 enclosures; they're all USB2 and that's still enough of a bottleneck for even the 120 GB drive I benchmarked (they all hit ~35 MB/s r/w sequential.) The best I've found is PATA-eSATA, and I have a couple of desktops with at least 300 MB/s eSATA; on top of that I discovered there are eSATA-USB3 cables, so hopefully that will make that enclosure practically universal. I'll be playing around with that and running benchmarks over the next week or two. One of the 500 GB drives has uncorrectable sectors, and another has reallocated sectors, per CDI. I ran the WD software (including a long scan) on the WD drive, however, and it didn't report any issues; from what I've researched, each manufacturer determines what values are within spec, so CDI is throwing up a general warning but at least the one drive is still "fine" per WD (the other one is a different brand and I haven't gotten around to investigating it yet.) Certainly the safe thing to do would be to toss the drives, but if they're still functional I figure it's fine to throw some games on there until they die.
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Sep 20, 2018 08:04
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The first HD I bought with my own money, a Maxtor 853 MB, still spins up nicely. Time to put it in my mergerfs setup and see how long it will last.
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Sep 20, 2018 13:58
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I still put Maxtors out of service from time to time. They were good drives.
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Sep 20, 2018 15:02
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redeyes posted:I still put Maxtors out of service from time to time. They were good drives. I literally just finished wiping some Maxtor drives to give to the thrift store or something. They're fine, but their power on hours timers in SMART have rolled over so they're now reporting only 350 hours of use or something. While in reality they've ran 24/7 for years in an old homeserver that didn't spin the disks down.
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Sep 20, 2018 15:32
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Geemer posted:I literally just finished wiping some Maxtor drives to give to the thrift store or something. They're fine, but their power on hours timers in SMART have rolled over so they're now reporting only 350 hours of use or something. While in reality they've ran 24/7 for years in an old homeserver that didn't spin the disks down. In general they could do more iops than other drives which translated to a more responsive desktop.
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Sep 20, 2018 19:03
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A friend of mine gave me a gift. I can store all the data I hate and don't ever want to see again on them! Uploading myposts.txt.
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Sep 21, 2018 00:45
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I thought they were coasters. Checks thread title... oh.
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Sep 21, 2018 05:28
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Yeah my phone camera's been acting up so my photos seem fuzzy which doesn't help. Maybe I should clean the lens. Meh.
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Sep 21, 2018 07:13
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So I got me an 970 EVO, and Magician tells me it runs on older firmware. When I try to update, it errors with no firmware available for this drive. Samsung'd? Or do I need their NVMe driver for that? --edit: Yeah needs the Samsung one. Hope it doesn't have any bugs. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Sep 24, 2018 |
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Sep 24, 2018 10:22
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How insane am I to be considering PCIe SSDs? Thinking about starting to piece together my next build as I finally have a good stream of income.
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Sep 24, 2018 15:31
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Not at all? That's what NVMe drives are (too).
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Sep 24, 2018 15:39
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I'm just getting brushed up on everything here. I had thought PCIe > m2, but now I've figured it out. That'll shave off a few hundred bucks.
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Sep 24, 2018 15:49
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codo27 posted:How insane am I to be considering PCIe SSDs? Thinking about starting to piece together my next build as I finally have a good stream of income. PCIe SSD is about the same price as a regular SSD, so go for it. A build without a hard-drive cage would be pretty. NVME has a cost premium, but its shrinking. Realistically you won't see a large performance delta in home-use, gaming but then again if you want to overspend somewhere there are worse choices. I've been scoping out an NVME so I can go larger than 500GB of non-spinny on my desktop, but 100% realizing it's not the best $/perf decision.
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Sep 24, 2018 15:58
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PCIe SSDs are what the major cloud providers have used in the past from vendors like Fusion IO. Those things from 2014 still destroy consumer SSDs for server workloads partly because the drivers were written by literally Linux kernel I/O scheduler authors but also because the capacitor types used for them are better for higher queue depths and transactions favored by databases that are SSD aware.
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Sep 24, 2018 16:04
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codo27 posted:I'm just getting brushed up on everything here. I had thought PCIe > m2, but now I've figured it out. That'll shave off a few hundred bucks. m.2 can be PCIe (NVMe) or SATA. Don't buy m.2 SATA.
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Sep 24, 2018 17:24
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crazypenguin posted:m.2 can be PCIe (NVMe) or SATA. Don't buy m.2 SATA. There's nothing wrong with m.2 SATA, especially considering some systems have m.2 ports that are SATA only. Don't have much of a choice there!
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Sep 24, 2018 19:17
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crazypenguin posted:m.2 can be PCIe (NVMe) or SATA. Don't buy m.2 SATA. Unless your workload can max out your bandwidth without becoming CPU bound (i.e. more than gaming and writing office documents), SATA is perfectly fine. No point spending an extra hundred bucks for speed you don't use, put that money into more space instead.
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Sep 24, 2018 19:31
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m.2 SATA is for laptops that don't have space for a drive. For anything else, you're paying $40 more than a regular SATA SSD for no benefit whatsoever. And I was specifically replying to someone who seemed to want NVMe, and seemed unaware that m.2 did not automatically mean NVMe.
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Sep 24, 2018 19:38
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I made a little picture in hopes to make the whole terminology a bit more clear for others. Anyone have any suggestions to make it less confusing (or did I get things wrong)? e. Looking at some AMD block diagrams for AM4, they show some SATA connections going directly to the CPU. Is there a SATA controller on Zen processors? e2. Apparently the SoC has SATA and USB connectivity in addition to NVMe. Guess I'll update the graph. Actuarial Fables fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Sep 24, 2018 |
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Sep 24, 2018 20:01
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Actuarial Fables posted:I made a little picture in hopes to make the whole terminology a bit more clear for others. Anyone have any suggestions to make it less confusing (or did I get things wrong)? Ooh! this is really nice, bookmarked for reference.
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Sep 24, 2018 20:03
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crazypenguin posted:m.2 SATA is for laptops that don't have space for a drive. I've seen the M.2 Sata prices be exactly at 3.5" drives. On Amazon right now an 860 EVO 500GBs are within 10 bucks of each other: https://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=860+evo&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A860+evo You're not really paying a premium for it anymore.
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Sep 24, 2018 20:05
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Hey, so I got a 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD a month or two ago(it was right around prime day but i just missed the deal), and have been having issues with it. I'm wondering if i just got a faulty device that I should try to return or if maybe I need some driver update or windows reinstall or something. I installed this as a larger capacity replacement for my previous drive which is the primary drive I'm booting(Windows 7) off of. The data was cloned onto the new drive, and worked fine for maybe a week then I had a blue screen with "KERNEL DATA INPAGE ERROR". After the blue screen, the computer refused to recognize the drive and boot. I opened up my case and found that the SATA cable seemed kinda loose, like no detent really when inserted so I replaced the cable and thought that it maybe just bumped loose or something. It booted up again after this, but then the same issue happened a few days later. I realized then that just letting the computer sit a couple minutes after crash before rebooting would cause it to recognize the drive again, so maybe the cable thing was a red herring. It seems to be continuing to crash like this roughly once a week since the drive install. I read one forum post of similar issue with same drive I believe, where the user claimed that installing Intel Rapid Storage Technology solved their issue. Is that likely to be any source of problem like this? I have RST installed but its not the latest version. I tried to update versions but the installer told me "incompatible platform" and refused to run. Any advice?
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Sep 24, 2018 20:22
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Actuarial Fables posted:I made a little picture in hopes to make the whole terminology a bit more clear for others. Anyone have any suggestions to make it less confusing (or did I get things wrong)? This may just complicate it unnecessarily but there is also cable/backplane connected 2.5” nvme drives called U.2 or SFF-8639. They are often connected to motherboards or switch cards via SFF-8644/8643 cables also known as miniSAS HD. These are usually on enterprise or cloud systems so may be beyond what you’re looking to show, but there are some prosumer drives (intel 750 or 900p) that come in this form factor. Thankfully no “ruler” form factor drives or the samsung version in the prosumer space.. yet!
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Sep 24, 2018 21:29
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priznat posted:This may just complicate it unnecessarily but there is also cable/backplane connected 2.5” nvme drives called U.2 or SFF-8639. They are often connected to motherboards or switch cards via SFF-8644/8643 cables also known as miniSAS HD. These are usually on enterprise or cloud systems so may be beyond what you’re looking to show, but there are some prosumer drives (intel 750 or 900p) that come in this form factor. Good point. U.2 ports are included on some higher-end consumer motherboards and people may wonder what it's about - I'll add it to the list of things. e. Decided to just call it a U.2 Cable and a U.2 Port, figure that'll be what most people here will be questioning about. I'm also leaving out the Zen SoC SATA controller deal, since the picture is getting too big as-is. e2. Moved a few colors around, changed SATA to SATA (AHCI). 
Actuarial Fables fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Sep 26, 2018 |
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Sep 24, 2018 21:37
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crazypenguin posted:m.2 SATA is for laptops that don't have space for a drive. There definitely are laptops with only m.2 ports and no space for 2.5" drives, and also there are m.2 ports that are only SATA without having an NVMe connection. I agree that, in a perfect scenario you'd have NVMe SSDs for maximum performance and 2.5" SATA drives (of any type) for the best price/performance/storage, but in reality you may have to settle for a m.2 SATA SSD and a 2.5" HDD in a gaming laptop, for example. There's nothing inherently wrong with m.2 SATA, and if you deal hunt you can get the same drive for close to what the 2.5" version costs. On top of that, most people don't even need an NVMe SSD (basically, if you're not sure whether or not you do, then you really don't.) The "don't buy m.2 SATA SSD" thing comes up frequently in this thread, and while it's wrong, you can be genuinely helpful if you explain (copy & paste if necessary) what you recommend instead and why, because that information is going to people who aren't as familiar with the technology as the rest of us are.
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Sep 24, 2018 23:50
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I don't get the "don't buy M.2 SATA" thing either. It's perfectly viable if you want to cut down on cable clutter (and given the recent enthusiasm for mATX and ITX builds that's no small thing), and it's trivial to buy an adapter to turn it back into a cabled drive - either a fancy 2.5" case/tray to use in a laptop, or a PCB tray-style one you can stick somewhere nondescript inside your case with electrical tape. What I want to know regarding things M.2 is where the gently caress are Samsung's consumer ZNAND offerings to give the 900-series Optane a bit of competition? BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Sep 25, 2018 |
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Sep 25, 2018 05:43
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M.2 SATA is also occasionally the same price as the 2.5" options. It all depends on what you have available. If you've spare m.2 slots, go with m.2 sata. If you've spare 2.5" slots, go with 2.5". If you've spare of both, go with whatever you want. Who the gently caress cares?
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Sep 25, 2018 05:55
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Cat Army 
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peepsalot posted:Hey, so I got a 1TB Crucial MX500 SSD a month or two ago(it was right around prime day but i just missed the deal), and have been having issues with it. I'm wondering if i just got a faulty device that I should try to return or if maybe I need some driver update or windows reinstall or something.
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Sep 25, 2018 07:42
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The Iron Rose posted:M.2 SATA is also occasionally the same price as the 2.5" options. Like the poster above they think there is a still a price premium, or confuse M.2 SATA with NVME.
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Sep 25, 2018 12:50
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