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Old Binsby posted:anyway this is a pic thread I guess i should post pics not chat. Exposure to 80s mpvs is tolerable mostly in small amounts so i’ll post an 80s euro ford i parked behind which i reallyyyyy wish were my ride, a genuine That... that's an Escort?
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Sep 21, 2018 19:59
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Old Binsby posted:anyway this is a pic thread I guess i should post pics not chat. Exposure to 80s mpvs is tolerable mostly in small amounts so i’ll post an 80s euro ford i parked behind which i reallyyyyy wish were my ride, a genuine Those cars are probably what sparked my love of the Ford Escort, even if the US version was never any good.
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Sep 21, 2018 20:03
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Nidhg00670000 posted:That... that's an Escort? i’ve got nothing, it’s been a hard days work i guess i was awestruck but bow my head in shame
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Sep 21, 2018 20:06
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Rhyno posted:Those cars are probably what sparked my love of the Ford Escort, even if the US version was never any good. The Mazda based GT was very good. I only had an '89 GT though.
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Sep 21, 2018 20:20
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angryrobots posted:The Mazda based GT was very good. I only had an '89 GT though. It wasn't horrible, those goddamned auto belts though. I've owned like a dozen Escorts, all bought for practically nothing. Still love them but I dream of an RS Turbo.
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Sep 21, 2018 20:35
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Dagen H posted:Well he didn't say 'tonne', so Fair point. In the interest of on-topic, here's one of my past rides:  1968 Chevy El Camino, 327/Powerglide, bucket seats and console. It was my grandad's, and I should have kept it.
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Sep 21, 2018 21:05
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Old Binsby posted:it was new when i got it, not some pre-Euro NCAP crash test model. A 2014 model 75 bhp bluemotion tdi - not a dieselgate but the gold standard of salaryman transportation in the day due to tax advantages. Yeah they’re getting heavier, that Polo weighs as much as my 33 year old 7 seater MPV, literally. I don’t see how this is related to the engine performance so closely. I didn’t mean to attack you or anything just illustrate how a low power current econobox never felt inherently unsafe to me Got it, not attacking you or anyone else either - my original Hp comment was definitely tongue-in-cheek and then other people got defensive and irrational and nasty about low-hp cars. I love tiny, vintage, old cars as much as the next person to fling around and have fun in - but it's significantly more dangerous to drive around in one over time. I have gotten rid of multiple cars like my RT4WD and super clean '96 Bronco because of this (sole earner - if I die my family's going to have a bad time, and the chance of my kids getting hurt or dying in either aforementioned car is much higher in an accident) -and I have severely restricted driving my kids around in the e30 we have fixed up (I think we have ~10 total miles of seat time across 2 kids) because of this increase in risk. Car accidents are still the leading cause of deaths not from disease in the US. Re: safety - multiple factors here. Stating plainly for avoidance of all doubt per my original comment about low hp = danger: In the US market on today's roads there is a correlation between low-horsepower cars, the likelihood to be involved in an accident, and an increase in the likelihood of injury or death in an accident, as those cars trend toward being older with fewer safety features, and fare increasingly worse in accidents when involved in accidents. Is HP the base causal factor here? No. Is it a contributing factor? In some scenarios yes. Don't believe me? IIHS tabulates statistics on vehicle crashes and deaths and studies this. IIHS posted:The overall driver death rate for all 2014 and equivalent models during 2012-15 was 30 deaths per million registered vehicle years. Eleven models had driver death rates of zero. The highest death rate was 104 for the Hyundai Accent, a four-door minicar. People traded their lives for this data:  So what indications are here? A low-hp car on US roads is concretely more dangerous as a calculated risk to its occupants independent of the age of the car. SUVs and trucks here all perform more poorly in terms of handling and braking distances; using a proxy for your Polo, even the most miserable shitbox here in that class (Mitsubishi Mirage) can barely stand up to a 3000 lb sled moving at 38mph - representing approximately ~200,000 Joules of kinetic energy in the NHTSA's side impact test. Now scale that up to a 6000 lb Tahoe or a 8000 lb diesel truck (remember kinetic energy = .5 * mass * velocity squared) hitting that Mirage, even at the same speed, and you're doubling or nearly tripling the KE imparted upon the Mirage. Factor in speeds of modern roads and suddenly 55mph surface highways around here results in that diesel imparting ~1.1 million Joules unto yonder Mirage. That's going to be terrible for the occupants of any car in any scenario, but controlling for all other variables you'll be worse off with less mass around you. Beyond mass and its correlation with higher or lower HP across all cars, low HP can significantly increase risk to a car during merging events and other scenarios where there's a significant difference in speed between colliding vehicles. I'm not making any of this up nor am I telling any of you you're stupid or bad people for driving the cars you're driving. KakerMix, I get that you like your quirky RHD imports, but would you in good conscience put your teenager in one? I wouldn't. Larrymer posted:100hp naturally aspirated in the mountains, I get not being sufficient. Most anywhere else though and I'd argue it's fine. We took 140hp turbo cars (modern heavy cars!) all through exactly where Tremek describes to 9-14k feet, and they're completely fine and not unsafe from an acceleration perspective. You can keep highway speeds fine and make it through a left turn intersection without the car falling on it's face so good nuff. Sure: your 140hp turbocharged car also makes something like 160 lb-ft of torque too, and whereas horsepower decreases at about 3% rated engine capacity per 1000 ft in elevation for a NA car - meaning a 100hp NA car is making less than 70 crank hp at 10,000' - and your car can probably still manage something like ~120+ hp even at 10,000 ft if the turbo has variable geometry etc. So yes as your experience states it stands to reason that a car making ~75% more power at the given altitude will still be fine to drive. CONTENT: Pic of me being incredibly risky: 
Tremek fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Sep 21, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 21:30
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What the hell is going on itt
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Sep 21, 2018 21:34
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Darchangel posted:I dailied a 104 HP MAzda RX-7 for years, and still would (will, when it's done, again, but it'll be closer to 135-150HP), and I have no trouble with traffic on interstates and state highways here in DFW in my '87 Corolla with 80-something HP (when new, which it's not any more).
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Sep 21, 2018 21:35
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Bape Culture posted:What the hell is going on itt Insanity, I think.
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Sep 21, 2018 22:05
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Rhyno posted:Those cars are probably what sparked my love of the Ford Escort, even if the US version was never any good. I had a 1994 Escort station wagon I bought used for $3400. I had it for 12 years before I finally killed it. Worth every penny.
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Sep 21, 2018 22:13
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my lifted gargantuan tire 88 isuzu pup with the power output of a penny racer literally killed everyone above 6000 ft in my state. we called it "The Incident". we are just now beginning to rebuild.
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Sep 21, 2018 22:23
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Mister Kingdom posted:I had a 1994 Escort station wagon I bought used for $3400. I had it for 12 years before I finally killed it. Worth every penny. I had a 94 LX hatch (the first), a 91 GT, an 88, 89 and 90 GT, and 88 Pony, an 88 EXP, a 1996 SE, An 89 4 door... There were others but I didn't have them for more than a few weeks. I actually made an offer on another one last week but the sellers wife doesn't want to let it go now.
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Sep 21, 2018 22:38
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Less poo poo posting, more PICS (old though):  
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Sep 21, 2018 22:47
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Tremek posted:
Lady I used to work with, her husband retired before her. At the time they were earning at least $200K between them a year. He drove around in like a 92 Cavalier. 6 months after retirement, got t-boned by a teenager in a scion in a relatively low speed accident and died.
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Sep 21, 2018 23:10
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2019 Chevrolet Bolt Premier Trim I'll be honest I had to have that color when I saw it. Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Sep 22, 2018 |
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Sep 21, 2018 23:31
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Maker Of Shoes posted:my lifted gargantuan tire 88 isuzu pup with the power output of a penny racer literally killed everyone above 6000 ft in my state. we called it "The Incident". we are just now beginning to rebuild. Jimnys run around Japan as off-road rescue vehicles which will never not be hilarious to me. Duck and Cover posted:
Looks pretty good AND you got the Chevy logo to line up on the front wheel there
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Sep 21, 2018 23:35
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Tremek posted:words Your data shows that lovely cars are lovely in crashes, but I'm still failing to how deaths can be attributed to low horsepower in any way.
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Sep 21, 2018 23:36
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Bape Culture posted:500hp per ton or gently caress off So that's why you had to drop an LS in the M3, so it could manage to get your pudgy arse around at a reasonable speed.
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Sep 21, 2018 23:49
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tremek posted:Nohearum posted:Your data shows that lovely cars are lovely in crashes, but I'm still failing to how deaths can be attributed to low horsepower in any way. I don’t care one way or another, personally, but agree with this. Seems like the data says old cars are less safe (duh) and mini cars are less safe (also pretty intuitive). Mini cars and old cars do tend to have fewer HP, but I’m not seeing the causality being related to horsepower vs other, significant characteristics. If power to weight ratio was super important I would expect to see more issues with stuff like plumbers driving v6 Chevy express vans (for example, 2010 v6 express van is 200hp and 4900 lbs before you put your tools of the trade in the back - I assume new is slightly more hp but still - as compared to 138 hp to 2500lbs for a 2015 accent). Speaking of vans, here is a picture of mine. I believe I win the award for most vehicles in a vehicle and highest vehicle:driver ratio That’s one van with three motorcycles inside and one on the back. 
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Sep 22, 2018 00:04
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I've driven around in a 165hp (11s 0-100km/h) Audi A6 since 2004. My 360hp Audi S8 is maybe 100kg heavier and I can finally say performance is Very Nice to have. I don't need to use the gas pedal nearly as aggressively, and the S8 climbs hills on 5th gear even with cruise control on. The underpowered A6 had to constantly switch gears in order to move a little bit faster. Overtaking cars without full throttle is also nice. Of course the A6's engine has stayed cleaner when I have had to floor it all the time. Ihmemies fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Sep 22, 2018 |
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Sep 22, 2018 00:05
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Nohearum posted:Your data shows that lovely cars are lovely in crashes, but I'm still failing to how deaths can be attributed to low horsepower in any way. builds character posted:I don’t care one way or another, personally, but agree with this. Seems like the data says old cars are less safe (duh) and mini cars are less safe (also pretty intuitive). Mini cars and old cars do tend to have fewer HP, but I’m not seeing the causality being related to horsepower vs other, significant characteristics. Emphasis above mine Tremek posted:Stating plainly for avoidance of all doubt per my original comment about low hp = danger: In the US market on today's roads there is a correlation between low-horsepower cars, the likelihood to be involved in an accident, and an increase in the likelihood of injury or death in an accident, as those cars trend toward being older with fewer safety features, and fare increasingly worse in accidents when involved in accidents. Is HP the base causal factor here? No. Is it a contributing factor? In some scenarios yes. I mean, like, please read what I wrote
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Sep 22, 2018 00:11
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Tremek posted:Emphasis above mine Sure, you said it’s a contributing factor and I’m not seeing that. I’m not trying to be pedantic and if your point is just old and small cars are less safe and those tend to have fewer HP then fair enough. But I don’t think it is because you specifically say that it’s a contributing factor in some scenarios which suggest to me that you think there’s a causal link. No?
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Sep 22, 2018 00:15
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Wait, so I get to drive cars I can wring the piss out of within legal limits AND (statistically) die earlier? I'm...not seeing a downside here. Or is the point of the argument that Honda should really put their new 1.5T in the Fit and sell it specifically to me?
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Sep 22, 2018 01:08
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You've shown that small cars fair worse in crashes with big cars, woohoo. You've shown that speed differential (I. E. When merging) is dangerous, no poo poo. Neither of these points shows that low hp cars are inherently more dangerous than high HP cars. Wring the piss out of your low HP car to merge at the speed of traffic and you're not going to have a problem. Don't put yourself in a situation where you're stuck trying to merge behind someone who's going slowly to the point where you need to change lanes and floor it not to be rear ended - slow down more, so that you create a large enough gap that you can floor it on the ramp and merge at the speed of traffic. This isn't an issues of horsepower, it's about knowing how to properly merge. You haven't shown, with any of your big effort post, that low horsepower contributes to a car being less safe. E: lol a fiat 500 (135hp, 10 sec 0-60) has a rating of 10 deaths per whatever that measure is, where as the average is 30. TrueChaos fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Sep 22, 2018 |
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Sep 22, 2018 01:14
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Shrapnig posted:I did a thing. This is me quoting my post from almost 4 years ago so you guys can shut the gently caress up and stop the derail. Also this car goes bye bye in the new year. Edit: I didn't realize until just now that the STI logo on the center cap is lined up perfectly Shrapnig fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Sep 22, 2018 |
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Sep 22, 2018 01:18
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This reads like the guys that try to justify literbikes, lmao. Here's my ancient 7000lb 100whp diesel truck.  E: has no issue merging at the posted speed limits here in the bay area even with the short ramps... People here think merging is best done at 25mph. cursedshitbox fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Sep 22, 2018 |
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Sep 22, 2018 01:24
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Automotive Insanity - I bought a Dodge Demon for Safety Reasons
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Sep 22, 2018 01:50
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"The smaller you are the harder you are to hit" - Wisdom from an ex 2013 mini owner. Although they keep getting bigger and bigger.
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Sep 22, 2018 01:57
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Duck and Cover posted:"The smaller you are the harder you are to hit" - Wisdom from an ex 2013 mini owner. Although they keep getting bigger and bigger. Plus it's pretty easy to hit a stationary object.
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Sep 22, 2018 02:30
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dk2m posted:Automotive Insanity - I bought a Dodge Demon for Safety Reasons If you've ever had someone block you in and stop on the freeway so they can get out of their car to fight you or whatever I think you would appreciate having a fast car.
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Sep 22, 2018 02:41
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You only need steel plate and a supercharger.
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Sep 22, 2018 02:55
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Shrapnig posted:This is me quoting my post from almost 4 years ago so you guys can shut the gently caress up and stop the derail. What will you get to replace it?
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Sep 22, 2018 04:12
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Seat Safety Switch posted:Plus it's pretty easy to hit a stationary object. My Mini wasn't stationary and didn't get crashed into by an unnecessarily large vehicle.
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Sep 22, 2018 05:25
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cursedshitbox posted:This reads like the guys that try to justify literbikes, lmao.
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Sep 22, 2018 09:06
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cursedshitbox posted:This reads like the guys that try to justify literbikes, lmao. Rolling around in the Bay with heaps of torque and congested highways, yeah you can get by, but you’re also the exception as opposed to the rule for 7000 lb vehicles these days, most of which make easily 2x the HP. PS, while you might be in the way, the sheer mass of the truck around you lowers your likely overall risk of injury in an accident; the Donkey will simply transfer all that KE into the dipshit Uber driver in the Prius diving over 4 lanes to exit and panic braking in front of you. Again my original point was and is that most 100hp cars don’t have what it takes to keep up with modern highway speeds. While the Solomon curve continues to be debated there’s new reviews of it that support the same conclusions that speed differential equals higher risk on both sides of the curve. Interestingly there’s correlating data emerging from studies done on distracted driving demonstrating that distracted drivers tend to drive slower, and higher risk of accidents for slower drivers. There’s some very recent study out of Australia about this and their roads are more like ours than Europe. So if differential in speed correlates with risk, let’s do some basic math using my local highway standards for highway on-ramps:  So a local highway with a 65mph speed limit like I-25 (Denver’s main north/south interstate) should have onramps at least 1410 feet long where there’s no grade; just over a quarter mile. In practice many are far shorter, and if we want to use my area as likely accommodating a 20% decrease from sea level in HP in their standards, then we’re already in trouble. If we again pick on a shitbox like the Mitsubishi Mirage which turns in a leisurely 18.8 second, 75mph quarter mile at sea level in the hands of auto journalists, it likely can’t merge onto a 65-70mph highway here - or virtually anywhere else - when the flow of traffic is often above the posted limit, even at a flat-out full-throttle-for-20+seconds merge. My comment about wagon HP was, again, tongue in cheek - neither I or the rest of you shitlords need 1000hp. But you probably need at least ~150hp (or better...) in most cars, on most American highways today, to not be in the way of a 80k semi bearing down on you in the right lane as you get on an interstate. Tremek fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Sep 22, 2018 |
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Sep 22, 2018 11:20
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I don’t car
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Sep 22, 2018 12:09
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Bape Culture posted:I don’t car I zwei car  Sedan's up to $4500 on BaT with 4 days to go. if it does alright we'll probably sexy up the coupe next.
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Sep 22, 2018 12:38
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Tremek posted:Rolling around in the Bay with heaps of torque and congested highways, yeah you can get by, but you’re also the exception as opposed to the rule for 7000 lb vehicles these days, most of which make easily 2x the HP. PS, while you might be in the way, the sheer mass of the truck around you lowers your likely overall risk of injury in an accident; the Donkey will simply transfer all that KE into the dipshit Uber driver in the Prius diving over 4 lanes to exit and panic braking in front of you. didnt loving read lol 
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Sep 22, 2018 13:10
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You know, all of this would mean a lot more if the average person merging onto the freeway used more than the barest fraction of their accelerator pedal travel. All this handwringing about underpowered shitboxes not able to get to freeway speeds and then, gasp, there's all these people in cars with perfectly adequate power not getting up to proper merge speed anyway. Also, looks like that Mirage did OK in that NCAP test. Additionally statements about body-on-frame stuff being safe misses a lot of points. But that's about as serious as this needs to be taken I guess.
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Sep 22, 2018 15:06
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