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in a well actually
Jan 26, 2011

dude, you gotta end it on the rhyme

meatpotato posted:

鬼神 hire ‘em all 1099

CPColin posted:

2,147,483,647 dev ops

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qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Pie Colony posted:

i said exactly 0 of these things, but

- the learning that comes from pair programming (which is only one of its benefits) doesn't come from watching the other person code, it comes from having a conversation with the other person about the code. there are no textbooks or coursera classes for your codebase
code reviews work really well too.

quote:

- "breathing down your neck" is a really antagonistic way to frame collaborating with your teammates
no it's not when the person is literally breathing down your neck.

quote:

- are you complaining that some coworkers SOCIALIZE on the job? the absolute horror. also arguing is more often debating which is doing the work.
stop being dense, you know exactly what i'm talking about. it's not about people making the odd sarcastic quip to each other or making well thought out design decisions, it's about people mucking around or incessantly arguing about minutiae at the expense of the company. sometimes personalities just clash and nothing gets done.

quote:

- i'm not in a position to force anything on anyone. someone here was considering applying to a company that had an already established pairing policy, and was up front about it

also two misc thoughts

- i've paired on 3 different teams, albeit all in the backend webshit sphere, but on considerably different tasks (writing APIs, setting up deployment pipelines, migrating services into AWS) and it was almost always useful

- when a company says they pair on 100% of things, they don't mean actually 100%. some things are trivial to do in a couple minutes, other times people aren't just available for pairing
i'm saying if it works for you, then great. i'm also saying that mandated pairing is stupid because not everyone benefits from it in the same way if at all. at the end of the day, if the benefit is not 100% obvious, then it's just two engineers doing the job of one.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
code reviews are different than pair programming. in pair programming, you get to see which ideas were considered but not used, you get to pick up useful workflows, you get feedback faster in the process. though code reviews are useful too.

but ok, you're right. if you think pair programming is two programmers stacked on top of each other (??), if you think the most likely outcome of two coworkers sitting down together is arguing, if you think nothing getting done is an acceptable result of "personalities clashing," or that the end result of pair programming is supposed to be two units of work, yes, pair programming is not for you.

Pie Colony fucked around with this message at 05:18 on Sep 21, 2018

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


Pie Colony posted:

yea like a lot of processes (agile, issue tracking) it's possible to do poorly, but i think implemented well it's a net positive. i know that's a tautology, etc etc, but at the end of the day i'll fight for it

he would have days where his partner called in sick and literally would not be allowed to work, it was a very bad policy

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


noone is "right" you loving retard. it's tool which is useful for a subset of people on a subset of projects, not something which should be followed dogmatically in all or even most situations.

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008


imagine defending pair programming lmao

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008


talking to your coworkers: good

collaborating with your coworkers: good

literally sitting in each others laps to work: bad

Jimmy Carter
Nov 3, 2005

THIS MOTHERDUCKER
FLIES IN STYLE
the hiring manager talked to me effectively immediately after I finished my interviews to tell me I aced them and I'll be going on to the Final Round imminently. Talking about how making sure to have empathy for the customer when making decisions seems to be a good way to convey that you're not a person whose approach to projects consists of 'if Jenkins lights up green ship it'.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

qhat posted:

noone is "right" you loving retard. it's tool which is useful for a subset of people on a subset of projects, not something which should be followed dogmatically in all or even most situations.

:rolleyes: you don't even know why or how pair programming is used, why do you think you know which subset of people or projects it should be used for?

e: also don't use the r word

Pie Colony fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Sep 21, 2018

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine
I have a lovely phone screen I'm going to bomb for a lovely sysadmin job at a place that would be a pain in the rear end to get to. But at least it wouldn't be third-shift?

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.

:tipshat: thanks for noticing, Polly and PCjr

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006
paired programming between senior and junior devs has value as part of a mentorship thing, but for peers i'd probably avoid it

MononcQc
May 29, 2007

I know people who love pair programming and swear by it, but I can't imagine the practice not making me 10x more tired at the end of the day.

EVGA Longoria
Dec 25, 2005

Let's go exploring!

we do a lot of pairing at work. I try to keep it to <50% of my time. it’s not especially tiring, but it’s definitely slower, and I don’t get a ton of added value from it.

happy to do it with the juniors when I do though, it is great training

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


Pie Colony posted:

goongrats but also don't bank on anything until you actually have it in formal writing the money is in the bank

GenJoe
Sep 15, 2010


Rehabilitated?


That's just a bullshit word.

qhat posted:

noone is "right" you loving retard

stop

ThePeavstenator
Dec 18, 2012

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:

Establish the Buns

:burger::burger::burger::burger::burger:
Paired programming is a great tool for mentoring junior team members or working through a tough problem with an extra head. Required paired programming is dumb though. Sounds like someone heard the benefits of it and decided that more = better in every context in the same way that people think eating tons of carrots will improve your eyesight.

carry on then
Jul 10, 2010

by VideoGames

(and can't post for 10 years!)

look, all that matters is that everyone is exactly like me, so they better be doing exactly what i do

skimothy milkerson
Nov 19, 2006

Disappointing Dollhouse posted:

job search status: no more phone janitor, code janitor starting oct 1.

this thread has had lots of good thoughts and i am very grateful for it

rest in piss

Pendragon
Jun 18, 2003

HE'S WATCHING YOU
I realized last night that, despite the fact that I love the people I work with at my current job and I love what I'm working on for now, I don't want to stick around for next year when I'll be back in the javascript code mines and under a micromanaging boss. it sucks because I know me leaving is going to make a lot of people I like really sad but god drat I hate the way we write javascript.

got two phone interviews lined up for next Tuesday though. I'm having to beat LinkedIn recruiters off with a stick.

Corla Plankun
May 8, 2007

improve the lives of everyone
anyone that gets sad because their coworker got a better job probably deserves to be sad imo

Pendragon
Jun 18, 2003

HE'S WATCHING YOU
I know that being all dehumanize yourself and face to bloodshed is hip but I have some good friends at this job whom I will miss talking to after I leave.

that said your point is valid and good friendships only count if they balance out the bullshit, which unfortunately they don't in this case

kitten emergency
Jan 13, 2008

get meow this wack-ass crystal prison

Pendragon posted:

I'm having to beat [...] recruiters off [...]

interesting strategy, pls report back

kitten emergency
Jan 13, 2008

get meow this wack-ass crystal prison
for real good luck tho

kitten emergency
Jan 13, 2008

get meow this wack-ass crystal prison
newjob trip report +1mo: 30% more money, no late nights, no 24/7 oncall, get to work on cool oss stuff rather than fighting with bad legacy applications, lots more speaking + writing opportunities, 100% remote and not a ton of travel. the futures so bright i gotta wear shades. thanks for the interview tips thrad. :toot:

Pendragon
Jun 18, 2003

HE'S WATCHING YOU

uncurable mlady posted:

interesting strategy, pls report back

pimp out my hand, or program in javascript... tough call.

uncurable mlady posted:

for real good luck tho

thanks:keke:

Ellie Crabcakes
Feb 1, 2008

Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

Pendragon posted:

I'm having to beat LinkedIn recruiters off with a stick.
Aren't we fancy. I just use my hands and a spray-bottle of I Can't Believe It's Not Butter.

Turnquiet
Oct 24, 2002

My friend is an eloquent speaker.

i know all sillicon valley unicorns are bad and dumb and getting a quarterly equity payments in pre-ipo companies is garbage, but does anyone have any experience with slack? they at least have a product, revenue, and are adapting for the enterprise use cases. they reached out so i think they may be about to adjust their enterprise offering based on what i specialize in, and since the office is in denver and not sv it may not be too hateful an opportunity if it passes the sniff test and offers the opportunity/ducats. someone help me levelset with reality here, ive been a fortune 100+ guy my whole career.

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

Turnquiet posted:

i know all sillicon valley unicorns are bad and dumb and getting a quarterly equity payments in pre-ipo companies is garbage, but does anyone have any experience with slack? they at least have a product, revenue, and are adapting for the enterprise use cases. they reached out so i think they may be about to adjust their enterprise offering based on what i specialize in, and since the office is in denver and not sv it may not be too hateful an opportunity if it passes the sniff test and offers the opportunity/ducats. someone help me levelset with reality here, ive been a fortune 100+ guy my whole career.

slack is big enough to be a real company now instead of a few dudes from California playing office. I say go for it, but continue to value "equity" at ~$0 when considering the offer

Denver is pretty good except for the (still better than west coast) skyrocketing rent and godawful traffic

e: to be clear I have no knowledge of slack-the-company specific, just that it shouldn't be too rough a transition from gigantocorp - they'll have HR and IT and the usual stuff you'd expect from a real company

Arcsech fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Sep 22, 2018

Nomnom Cookie
Aug 30, 2009



agreed slack is a real company but pre-ipo equity is a lottery ticket. if the job looks good id say go for it, worst case is they crash and burn in 2-4 years and you have a hella sweet looking resume entry

skimothy milkerson
Nov 19, 2006

i get paid fat stacks to type df = pd.read_csv('somebullshit.csv', low_memory=IDGAF) all day

skimothy milkerson
Nov 19, 2006

the first line of my grave stone will read "import pandas as pd"

Diva Cupcake
Aug 15, 2005

Turnquiet posted:

someone help me levelset with reality here

ive been a fortune 100+ guy my whole career.
your usage of level set was the tip-off.

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


Skim Milk posted:

i get paid fat stacks to type df = pd.read_csv('somebullshit.csv', low_memory=IDGAF) all day

same op

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


sometimes I have to email someone if it doesn't work because the file is hosed up

Corla Plankun
May 8, 2007

improve the lives of everyone
im a pd.read_csver too and i only work about 32 hours a week but get salary, its the tech industry equivalent of ATM OF EREBUS

DELETE CASCADE
Oct 25, 2017

i haven't washed my penis since i jerked it to a phtotograph of george w. bush in 2003
im more of a \copy table from data.csv with (format csv) kind of guy

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

i have to interview a software engineer. i think im just gonna use that table of "tell me about a time that <blank>" scenarios to generate interview questions until im out of time

this one

meatpotato posted:

think of questions you'll be asked and come up with answers in advance

in fact, just use this table straight out of cracking the coding interview and fill in the boxes



Nomnom Cookie
Aug 30, 2009



those are good questions but i would add another row. "proud of"

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skimothy milkerson
Nov 19, 2006

DELETE CASCADE posted:

im more of a \copy table from data.csv with (format csv) kind of guy

all csv molesters are welcome here, friend

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