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Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Also, on the 4e front, why the gently caress would they not take this golden opportunity to make the money make more sense. I know it's the old English system or something but come on guys, 10 brass to a silver, 10 silver to a gold, make everything easier on everyone.

Also funny that they try to eliminate savings book-keeping and then include 'Also you have to pay more money and track paying more money per day to keep up your status'.

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Anniversary
Sep 12, 2011

I AM A SHIT-FESTIVAL
:goatsecx:

So the whole letting Fists walk away if they drop the mask. The argument is that it kills morale because Fists in firefights will just drop their mask if they get scared.

Sigmata p. 265 posted:

Those who did adopt the tactic, however, face an enemy almost incapable of sustaining a prolonged firefight.

This just seems implausible to me, so I more directly connected the fragging to this being the resistances goal than the text does, because if your military is incapable of fighting without surrendering from stress, and yet heavily recruits and appeals to Loyalists and compartmentalizes recruits (you know, textually its the intelligence wing, EYE-Ops that compartmentalizes people to interests that their loyalties suit, so maybe they don't but then why not? why wouldn't they do the same with their troops, 50% of which are domestically assigned and 50% of which are internationally deployed.) there's a lot bigger problem with the whole Loyalist thing than the book lets on.

Okay, I've got the book in front of me again, I'm going to work on a more refined effort post now.

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually
LOL, anyone who doesn't love my work and accept it for the breakthrough work of political-social synthesis that it clearly is is just a purist zealot who is only interested in busting my balls and not in ~*having a conversation*~.

Incredible. The last RPG I saw that was this badly thought out was BEAST.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Also the whole technomagic machine signal just seems like a way more boring idea than just, you know, playing resistance people.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




The more I read of the mechanics, the more I think the Signal exists as an idea point to sell the setting, and as an oh-poo poo valve for when the murderous mechanics start a party wipe.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Night10194 posted:

Also, on the 4e front, why the gently caress would they not take this golden opportunity to make the money make more sense. I know it's the old English system or something but come on guys, 10 brass to a silver, 10 silver to a gold, make everything easier on everyone.

Also funny that they try to eliminate savings book-keeping and then include 'Also you have to pay more money and track paying more money per day to keep up your status'.

To be fair that bit is explicitly optional and the default system is 'this is the coin you use must often, boom, done.'

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I think it's more that the 'making saving money hard' thing is less an attempt to answer book-keeping and more an attempt to keep PCs poor (ish) because acquiring/buying new gear and constantly needing money is part of the genre. It's always been a thing that hams characters, heroic or not, really care if they get paid because they kind of need the money.

So abstracting out that they tend to spend on luxuries when they can, or that they always have some old debt that's come due that they have to take care of, or whatever between adventures isn't the worst idea for a way to keep that tone.

Anniversary
Sep 12, 2011

I AM A SHIT-FESTIVAL
:goatsecx:
This is it, this is what peak Ethical Insurgency looks like:

"Sigmata p.256 posted:

1. Resistance fighters must not commit war crimes.
2. Resistance fighters must not attack non-combatants.
3. Resistance fighters must not coerce material support from the people.

Using willing Human Shields isn't a war crime apparently.

Also the Resistance perceives itself as being legitimate? What does that even mean? They don't explicitly have backing from a government in exile, and they're not trying to establish a government, I am obviously ignorant, so can someone tell me what he means by this?

Looking back at their goals:

Sigmata p.180 posted:

The Freedom Fist must be abolished, effective immediately.
All members of Congress must resign, effective immediately.
The executive and his entire cabinet must resign, effective immediately.

Now, maybe the US will be able to just pick up and have an election once these things happen and it will be free and fair and... You know what. It's almost like this is intentionally obscured so that it seems more reasonable for the Resitance qua Resistance to even exist.

Sigmata p.257 posted:

Resistance Fighters Must Not Attack Non-Combatants
Oh wait, but you can totally kill 'em if you've given them the chance to surrender.

Sigmata p.257 posted:

However, the Fist who is sleeping in his barracks, eating food in the mess hall, on leave with his family, or training in boot camp is absolutely off limits unless he has been given a chance to surrender.
You see, otherwise the Regime will use it in propaganda. Propaganda they already fake. But because this time it will be real, maybe all of those fake reports are true!

This argument just falls flat for me. I'm still thinking on how best to present it, but as of now, I find it extremely milquetoast.

And for 3. well, you can totally steal someone car as long as they get a check from the Resistance for it. I'm sure that will not result in them getting sent to a Work Camp, because its worth its own set of examples on how to leave "anonymous" money.

Okay now they say the Regime has no ethical framework. This is untrue. It might be a craven, meaningless, easily disproven one, but I assure you they have some form of ethical framework, this is like the Liar's Sentence "This Sentence is False", it's a paradox (if we accept it at face value).

Sigmata p.258 posted:

They have selected this strategy [Ethical Insurgency] because this is how an insurgency wins.
You know, its almost like this is a controversial statement.

Liquid Communism posted:

The more I read of the mechanics, the more I think the Signal exists as an idea point to sell the setting, and as an oh-poo poo valve for when the murderous mechanics start a party wipe.

The Signal has it's own subsystem that's based on a difficult to modify (ie. resource limited and potentially permanently unavailable) d6 roll.

Hostile V
May 31, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

And isn't explained until the end of the book so a lot of the book is just like "what's stopping you from just using the signal forever". The formatting leaves quite a bit to be desired.

Also thank you for the kind words, Crumbum.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e: Tome of Salvation

Mothers of Sigmar

Sigmar, being the largest religion in the Empire, has the most groups of fanatics described here. Our first group is Those Left Behind. These are the daughters, wives, and widows of those who die fighting the orcs and goblins, whether in the Imperial Army, the militia, or on adventure. They've formed up into a loose warrior-sisterhood, reasoning that seeking revenge on the greenskins for killing your kin was good enough for Sigmar and perhaps he'll bless their efforts to do the same. Equipment is rare in these groups of roving would-be-warriors, and mostly consists of hand-me-downs. If a new sister can't find a real weapon, she gets the biggest rock or stick she can manage until she can brain an orc and take his choppa (in practice, these unarmed sisters usually die). However, those who survive become hardened fighters very quickly. When these bands of warriors win victories, they're prone to drinking heavily and throwing rowdy parties to thank Sigmar for his protection. Every member takes on a title where they take Sigmar in place of the loved one they lost, so they are the daughters, wives, and mothers of Sigmar, the latter title making the Order of the Torch a little nervous about heresy. Still, aside from the wild parties the group doesn't seem interested in doing more than fighting orcs and defending towns from them, so they're mostly tolerated. They could be a pretty fun concept for a wild campaign of scavenging and desperate combat.

The Flagellant Orders are a famous phenomena of Sigmarism. There are dozens of these tiny groups of lunatics, hitting themselves with corded whips and wearing broken glass sewn into their clothes. They believe pain and suffering are key to holiness, but outside of this they don't have any unified beliefs, and the little bands of masochists often get into flail fights over obscure doctrine or the preaching of a charismatic.They also like to hurt themselves in public, usually while wearing plaques they can't read, publicly proclaiming the world is wicked and doomed. Most believe what they do is the only thing that keeps Sigmar from destroying the evil world, or standing aside to let Chaos do it. These religious manias can take over whole towns in times of fear or disaster. Worse, some of these groups are endorsed or encouraged by some of the priests of Sigmar, so there's no getting rid of them. Again, not quite sure where they get Flagellants out of Sigmarism particularly, but if I had to guess I'd say it's a perversion of some of the dwarven cultural bleed-over. Dwarfs say you should be able to take it, after all, and Sigmar says be nice to (and a little like) dwarfs, so maybe those wires got crossed with crazy apocalypticism and produced these weirdos. Sigmar's Anvils are described as a whole separate group, but I'd just use them as an example of Flagellants; a bunch of hopeless people who believe that by suffering extravagantly, they'll take up all of Sigmar's wrath and protect the rest of the community.

The Unifiers were already dangerous enough in claiming Sigmar is master of all Gods, but that isn't necessarily heresy; there's always been debates about which popular God is King or Queen of the divine realm. The Truth of Sigmar go further, claiming that all the other Gods have died fighting Chaos and only Sigmar has seen any success. All other cults are just the Chaos Gods holding up the corpses of the other Gods to deceive their followers. Thus, according to the Truth, every prayer to Shallya is empowering Nurgle, etc. This is a very dangerous and very fringe heresy, punished heavily by the Sigmarite cult. Not just because it risks civil war, not just because it's wrong, but because it glorifies and strengthens Chaos, by falsely claiming it's already 'won' most of its war against the sane world.

The Fanatics of Taal and Rhya really follow the same pattern for both groups: The Celebrants and the Wildmen. Both withdraw from society to go live in the woods. Both get killed by beastmen a lot. Celebrants go off into the woods to party in the name of Taal and Rhya and do crazy forest mushrooms for the rest of their lives, while the Wildmen actually try to revert to a pre-Imperial hunter-gatherer society. Contrary to the title, Wildmen are both genders, and sometimes form small, successful communities of hunters in the middle of the woods, far from normal civilization. This would be normal enough, if not for the fact that they also think things like 'pants' or 'daggers' are meaningless before the might of King Taal; they think humans should live naked and unarmed, without tools. As you might imagine, they have serious problems with fighting off ravening Goatmen, not to mention bears. The official church doesn't really care about either flavor of 'withdraw from society and die in the woods'.

The Sons of Ulric are insane religious terrorists who believe they are actual blood descendants of Ulric. They have existed for centuries, and have been trying and failing to take over the cult for just as long, because none of them can agree who should rule the cult (then the world, they are semi-divine Godlings!) after they win. Instead they tend to fall back into squabbling and making wolf noises at each other before agreeing that any minute now they'll be God kings. Then someone else mentions that some of the Sons (and occasional Daughters, but they refuse to change the name) aren't even Teutogens. Then one of them shoots back that Ulric can gently caress whoever he drat well likes. Then they start arguing over whether or not blonde hair is a sign of Ulric and really there's a reason they've never gotten anywhere. They are an illegal embarrassment to the Cult of Ulric, which has been trying to wipe them out as long as they've existed.

The Wolf-Kin are ex-soldiers who have formed up into loose roving bands of religious warriors. When a warrior of Ulric feels they have committed grave offense, instead of hitting themselves with whips, they put on some woad, learn to berserk, and go off to face the corruption of the world head on by fighting demons, greenskins, and beastmen. As they seek out and primarily fight obvious enemies in defense of northern communities, most people think of the Wolf-Kin as something of a romantic group of heroes, aside from the part where many of them die in the process. Since they're ex-soldiers, though, many of them have and know how to use weaponry and armor; this makes their berserking rages actually carry them to victory more often than you'd usually see with a band of Flagellants. Aside from the occasional case where a band of Wolf-Kin declares an Imperial tax collector a bandit who has no right to take from Ulric's people, the church barely has to denounce them for anything; they're mostly legitimate.

Verenan Defenders of Truth believe no subject should be forbidden, no book should be illegal, and that everything in the world can eventually be catalogued and understood. As you might imagine this gets them in trouble in a world full of evil books and dark wizardry. They're often suspected of being heretics, and accidentally end up helping heretics reasonably often, but the cult refuses to condemn them. The official cult line is that they go a little too far, and that maybe it's okay to burn Ye Booke of The Most Livesome Awfulness, but generally the Verenans would rather err on their side than the other. Scholastics are simple Verenans Flagellants, who whip themselves when they get questions wrong in large impromptu quizzes imposed by their charismatic preachers, and who consider memorizing vast quantities of trivia a holy task. The only really unorthodox part about them is the desire to be hurt if they get questions wrong or their study falls short; Verenans consider that pretty crazy.

Next time: Acts of Fanatics

Alien Rope Burn
Dec 5, 2004

I wanna be a saikyo HERO!

Liquid Communism posted:

According to Word of Author, that alt-right group was one of his intended targets for the game.

Chad Walker posted:

Third, even political agitators like myself absolutely like to kick back with (and often write) totally mindless genre stuff once in a while.

I feel wary of anyone who describes themselves as a "political agitator" based on their RPG writing. :rolleyes:

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Alien Rope Burn posted:

[quote]

I feel wary of anyone who describes themselves as a "political agitator" based on their RPG writing. :rolleyes:

But don't you see, he's describing a super powerful and daring ETHICAL insurgency that if marginalized people would just TRY they'd find they'd win all the time because the people would finally love them. It's such a radical blueprint, maaaaan.

E: Honestly that's probably the most annoying part about this game: It's a white guy explaining what a revolution has to do to earn his approval, as if this is the most important trait it could have.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Sep 24, 2018

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
I'm definitely getting the feeling that the Slayers have bled over into the Empire, just manifesting in more (flagellants) or less (Wolf-Kin) unusual ways from human culture and religion.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

WFRP 4e - How Am Sword

So, weapons! We have several weapon groups represented, first for melee. Basic covers Hand Weapons, Improvised Weapons, Daggers, Knives and all three kinds of Shield - bucklers, normal and large shields. All are Common except Improvised Weapon, which you can't actually buy.
Hand Weapons are your basic weapon, and deal +SB+4 Damage at Average reach, Enc 1. They cost 1GC, so don't lose yours if you have one. They can be basically any one-handed weapon that has no special traits.
Improvised Weapons are anything you pick up and hit people with that is not meant to be a weapon. By default, they do +SB+1 Damage and are Undamaging, with variable Enc and Reach.
Daggers deal +SB+2 damage at Very Short reach, Enc 0. They cost 16s.
Knives are identical to Improvised Weapons, but cost 8s and have Very Short reach and Enc 0. If you're fighting someone with a pocket knife, just grab a chair.
Bucklers deal +SB+1 damage at Personal reach, Enc 0. They have Shield 1, Defensive and Undamaging and cost 18s2p.
Shields deal +SB+2 damage at Very Short reach, Enc 1. They have Shield 2, Defensive and Undamaging and cost 2GC.
Large shields deal +SB+3 damage at Very Short reach, Enc 3. They have Shield 3, Defensive and Undamaging and cost 3GC.

Cavalry weapons are meant to be wielded while mounted. If you wield a two-handed Cavalry weapon while on foot, use Melee (Two-Handed) for it. One-handed Cavalry weapons cannot normally be used on foot.
Cavalry Hammers are two-handed, deal +SB+5 Damage, have Pummel and are Scarce, with Enc 3 and Long reach. They cost 3GC.
Lances deal +SB+6 Damage, have Impact and Impale and are Rare, with Enc 3 and Very Long reach. They cost 1GC. When used in any round you have not Charged, they are treated instead as improvised weapons.

Fencing
Foils deal +SB+3 Damage, have Fast, Impale, Precise and Undamaging and are Scarce, with Enc 1 and Medium reach. They cost 5GC.
Rapiers deal +SB+4 Damage, have Fast and Impale and are Scarce, with Enc 1 and Long reach. They cost 5GC.

Brawling isn't just fists!
Unarmed is +SB+0 Damage, Undamaging and free. No Enc, Personal reach.
Knuckledusters are +SB+2 Damage, Common and Enc 0, Personal reach. They cost 2s6p.

Flails gain the Dangerous flaw when used unskilled, on top of losing all Qualities.
Grain Flails deal +SB+3, have Distract, Imprecise and Wrap and are Common, with Enc 1 and Average reach. They cost 10s.
Flails deal +SB+5, have Distract and Wrap and are Scarce, with Enc 1 and Average Reach. They cost 2GC.
Military flails are two-handed, deal +SB+6, have Distract, Impact, Tiring and Wrap and are Rare, with Enc 2 and Long reach. They cost 3GC.

Parry can always be used with any one-handed weapon with the Defensive quality, on top of specific Parry weapons, and weapons using Melee (Parry) suffer no offhand penalty when opposing incoming attacks.
Main gauche deal +SB+2, have Defensive and are Rare, with Enc 0 and Very Short reach. They cost 1GC.
Swordbreakers deal +SB+3, have Defensive and Trap-blade and are Scarce, with Short reach. They cost 1GC2s6p.

Polearms are all two-handed. They all deal +SB+4.
Halberds have Defensive, Hack and Impale and are Common, with Enc 3 and Long reach. They cost 2GC.
Spears have Impale and are Common, with Enc 2 and Very Long reach. They cost 15s.
Pikes have Impale and are Rare, with Enc 4 and Massive reach. They cost 18s.
Quarter staffs have Defensive and Pummel and are Common, with Enc 2 and Long reach. They cost 3s. (In case you've noticed, this is probably the cheapest way to get decent damage!)

Two-Handed are, well, all two-handed. All are Enc 3.
Bastard swords deal +SB+5, are Damaging and Defensive and are Scarce, with Long reach. They cost 8GC.
Great axes deal +SB+6, are Hack, Impact and Tiring and are Scarce, with Long reach. They cost 4GC.
Picks deal +SB+5, are Damaging and Impale and are Common, with Average reach. They cost 8s. (Another great pick.)
Warhammers deal +SB+6, are Damaging and Pummel and are Common, with Average reach. They cost 3GC.
Zweihanders deal +SB+5, are Damaging and Hack and are Scarce, with Long reach. They cost 10GC.

Before I go into Ranged weapons, I'm going to cover the Qualities and Flaws so you have some context.
Qualities
Accurate: While you wield this weapon, you get +10 on any test to fire it.
Blackpowder: Anyone targeted by this weapon must make a Cool test at +20 or gain a Broken condition, even on a miss.
Blast (Rating): Anyone within (Rating) yards of the struck target point take SLs+Weapon Damage and suffer any Conditions the weapon inflicts.
Damaging: When you cause a successful hit while wielding this, you may use the better SL between your rolled SLs and the ones die of your roll. Undamaging overrides this and removes it.
Defensive: If you are wielding this, you get +1 SL on any Melee test when you use it to oppose an incoming attack.
Distract: When you would cause Damage with this, you may instead force the opponent back 1 yard per SL by which you won the opposed test.
Entangle: When you cause a successful hit while wielding this, the target gains an Entangled condition with Strength equal to your Strength. While Entangling a foe this way, you cannot otherwise use this weapon to hit. You may end the Entangled condition on the foe at will.
Fast: While wielding this, you may ignore your normal Initiative sequence to attack with it whenever you want, and all Melee tests to defend against this weapon get -10 unless the weapon defending is also Fast. If two people have a Fast weapon, they go in initiative order relative to each other if they wish to act simultaneously. Slow overrides this and removes it.
Hack: When you cause a successful hit while wielding this, you deal 1 Damage to a struck piece of armor or shield as well as wounding the target. (I believe this means if your roll succeeds, if they successfully parry with a shield, you damage the shield.)
Impact: When you cause a successful hit while wielding this, add the ones digit of your attack roll to its Damage. Undamaging overrides and removes this.
Impale: When wielding this, you cause a Critical Hit on any successful attack roll ending in a 0 as well as on doubles. If this is from a ranged attack, the projectile also lodges in the target's body and requires a Heal test to remove and, if a bullet, surgery. You can't heal 1 Wound per projectile lodged in your body.
Penetrating: Non-metal APs are ignored, and 1 AP of all other armor is ignored.
Pistol: This ranged weapon can be used in close combat.
Pummel: When you cause a successful Head hit while wielding this, you may make a Strength test against the target's Endurance. If you win, they gain 1 Stunned condition.
Precise: You get +1 SL on any successful test to attack with this weapon.
Repeater (Rating): Your weapon holds (Rating) shots, reloading automatically when fired until you use up all (Rating) shots. After that it must be reloaded as normal.
Shield (Rating): If you use this weapon to oppose an incoming attack, you count as having (Rating) APs on all hit locations. If the Rating is 2+, this weapon may oppose incoming missile shots in your line of sight.
Trap-blade: If you score a Critical while defending with this weapon against a bladed weapon, you may choose to trap it instead of causing a Critical Hit. If you do, make an opposed Strength test, adding your SLs from the Melee test. If you succeed, your opponent drops their weapon. If you get 6+ SLs, their weapon breaks unless it has the Unbreakable quality.
Unbreakable This weapon will never break, corrodoe or lose its edge in nearly any circumstance.
Wrap: Melee tests opposed attacks made with this get -1 SL, as the weapon wraps around or over the weapon or shield.
Flaws
Dangerous: Any failed test that has a 9 in either place of the roll causes a Fumble.
Imprecise: You get -1 SL when using this weapon to attack. The weapon may never have Precise.
Reload (Rating): Reloading this weapon requires an extended Ranged test with the appropriate weapon group, aiming for (Rating) SLs. If interrupted, you must start from scratch.
Slow: When using this weapon, you always go last in the round, regardless of Initiative order. Any attempt to defend against attacks from this weapon gets +1 SL.
Tiring: This weapon loses Impact and Damaging on any turn in which you do not Charge.
Undamaging: Double all APs against this weapon, and it can have its damage reduced to 0 on a hit.

What that reach stuff was was about how big the weapon is. Personal is your body. Very Short is under a foot, Short is up to 2 feet, Average up to 3, Long up to 6, Very Long up to 10 and may Engage foes out to 4 yards rather than 2, Massive is over 10 and can Engage foes out to 6 yards rather than 2. Optionally, if your weapon is longer than your foe's, they get -10 to hit you. However, as your action, you can make an opposed Melee test to step inside the enemy's weapon length. The winner decides if the combat is normal or in-fighting. During in-fighting, any weapon with reach longer than Short is considered an improvised weapon.

Next time: Ranged Weapons

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Huh. Interesting to see Rapiers are just straight superior to a Hand Weapon now instead of being a minor (reasonable) trade-off.

Small Strange Bird
Sep 22, 2006

Merci, chaton!
A little while back I asked in the genchat thread if there were any modern games along the lines of The Price Of Freedom (which was Red Dawn: The Game, except written by the creator of Paranoia, so in retrospect it's way less serious than it seemed at the time). Sigmata came up, and even though I didn't want a supers/cyberpunk game I thought I'd check out the basics.

And hoo boy, the 'ethical insurgency' stuff even in precis in the Kickstarter made it clear it's as fantastical as D&D. I'd been reading up about the French Resistance, an example of western freedom fighters literally killing fascists, and the idea that "if enemy soldiers aren't in uniform actively trying to kill you they're off-limits!" is so far from how an actual insurgent movement fights that it makes anything Sigmata has to say on the subject an utter joke. It really is 'middle class white guy explains to the oppressed how they should behave'.

Young Freud
Nov 26, 2006

Hostile V posted:

And isn't explained until the end of the book so a lot of the book is just like "what's stopping you from just using the signal forever". The formatting leaves quite a bit to be desired.

Also thank you for the kind words, Crumbum.

What would have been better is that the Signal = direct action political violence. The players are encouraged to resist, sabotage, proselytize, etc. but the Signal gives them the edge over the Fist, but at a cost of their humanity. Use it too much and you start seeing everyone as the enemy, allowing you to start pulling off mass executions, demolish hospitals and places of worship, etc.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Night10194 posted:

Huh. Interesting to see Rapiers are just straight superior to a Hand Weapon now instead of being a minor (reasonable) trade-off.

Now there have the trade off of being 5 times more expensive.

Hostile V
May 31, 2013

Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

Young Freud posted:

What would have been better is that the Signal = direct action political violence. The players are encouraged to resist, sabotage, proselytize, etc. but the Signal gives them the edge over the Fist, but at a cost of their humanity. Use it too much and you start seeing everyone as the enemy, allowing you to start pulling off mass executions, demolish hospitals and places of worship, etc.
That sounds really boring and like you don't believe in the cause of gradual incremental progress by being upstanding and the moral high ground in war and conflict and by upholding the history of the true America which is already great and better than this. :colbert:

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

So Impact effectively sneaks in a 0-9 damage increase in the weapon, an old-style weapon damage roll variance, if I'm reading it right?

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Pretty much, yes.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

WFRP 4e - How Am Gun

Ranged weapons apply traits both from the weapon and its ammunition, which can be a bit confusing. Most ammo doesn't change much, though.

Blackpowder weapons all have the Blackpowder and Damaging qualities. Any Engineering weapon may be used with Ranged (Blackpowder), but retains all Flaws while losing all Qualities if you do.
Blunderbusses are two-handed, Damage +8, Blast 3, Dangerous and Reload 2 and are Scarce, with Enc 1 and Range 20. They cost 2GC.
Hochland long rifles are two-handed, Damage +9, Accurate, Precise and Reload 4 and are Exotic, with Enc 3 and Range 100. They cost 100GC.
Handguns are two-handed, Damage +9, Dangerous, Reload 3 and are Scarce, with Enc 2 and Range 50. They cost 4GC.
Pistols are Damage +8, Pistol, Reload 1 and are Rare, with Enc 0 and Range 20. They cost 8GC.
Ammo
Bullets and powder give +1 Damage, Impale and Penetrating and are Common, with Enc 0. They cost 3s3p per 12.
Improvised shot and powder halves weapon range and is Common, with Enc 0. It costs 3p per shot but can only be used by Blunderbusses.
Small shot and powder gives Blast +1 and is Common, with Enc 0. It costs 3s3p per 12 but can only be used by blunderbusses.

Bow weapon are all two-handed.
Elf bows are +SB+4, Damaging and Precise and are Exotic, with Enc 2 and Range 150. They cost 10GC.
Longbows are +SB+4 and Damaging and are Scarce, with Enc 3 and Range 100. They cost 5GC.
Bows are +SB+3 and are Common, with Enc 2 and Range 50. They cost 4GC.
Shortbows are +SB+2 and are Common, with Enc 1 and Range 20. They cost 3GC.
Ammo
Arrows give Impale and are Common, with Enc 0. They cost 5s per 12.
Elf arrows give +1 Damage, Range +50, Accurate, Impale and Penetrating and are Exotic, with Enc 0. They cost 6s per arrow.

Crossbows can be used without training, like melee weapons. However, like melee wepaons, they lose all Qualities but retain all Flaws if so.
Crossbow Pistols are Damage +7 and Pistol and are Scarce, with Enc 0 and Range 10. They cost 6GC.
Heavy crossbows are two-handed, Damage +9, Damaging and Reload 2 and are Rare, with Enc 3 and Range 100. They cost 7GC.
Crossbows are two-handed, Damage +9 and Reload 1 and are Common, with Enc 2 and Range 60. They cost 5GC.
Ammo
Bolts give Impale and are Common, with Enc 0. They cost 5s per 12.

Engineering weapons all have the Blackpowder and Damaging qualities. Ranged (Engineering) can be used freely with any Blackpowder or Explosive weapons without penalty. They use the same ammo as Blackpowder.
Repeater handguns are two-handed, Damage +9, Dangerous, Reload 5 and Repeater 4 and are Rare, with Enc 3 and Range 30. They cost 10GC.
Repeater pistols are Damage +8, Dangerous, Repeater, Reload 4, Repeater 4 and are RAre, with Enc 1 and Range 10. They cost 15GC.

Entangling weapons don't use range bands - they just go out to their listed range and then stop.
Lassos deal no damage, are Entangle and are Common, with Enc 0 and Range (SB*2). They cost 6s.
Whips are Damage +SB+2 and Entangle and are Common, with Enc0 and Range 6. They cost 5s.

Explosives
Bombs are Damage +12, Blast 5, Dangerous and Impact and are Rare. They are Enc 0 and Range SB. They cost 3GC.
Incendiaries deal no Damage but cause all targets to get 1+SL Ablaze Conditions, are Blast 4 and Dangerous and are Scarce. They are Enc 0 and Range SB. They cost 1GC.

Sling
Slings are Damage +6 and are Common, with Enc 0 and Range 60. They cost 1s.
Staff slings are two-handed, Damage +7 and are Scarce, with Enc 2 and Range 100. They cost 4s.
Ammo
Lead bullets give +1 Damage, Range -10 and Pummel and are Common. They cost 4p per 12.
Stone bullets give Pummel and are Common. They cost 2p per 12.

Throwing weapons can be used without training, like melee weapons. However, like melee wepaons, they lose all Qualities but retain all Flaws if so.
Bolas are Damage +SB and Entangle and are Rare, with Enc 0 and Range (SB*3). They cost 10s.
Darts are Damage +SB+1 and Impale and are Scarce, with Enc 0 and Range (SB*2). They cost 2s.
Javelins are Damage +SB+3 and Impale and are Scarce, with Enc 1 and Range (SB*3). They cost 10s6p.
Rocks are Damage +SB and are Common, with Enc 1 and Range (SB*3). They are free.
Throwing axes are Damage +SB+3 and Hack and are "Average" which I assume is Common or Scarce, with Enc 1 and Range (SB*2). They cost 1GC.
Throwing knives are Damage +SB+2 and are Common, with Enc 0 and Range (SB*2). They cost 18s.

Range bands are simple - Point Blank is out to (Range/10), Short is out to (Range/2), Medium is out to Range, Long is out to (Range*2) and Extreme is out to (Range*3), with each range providing modifiers except Medium.

Next time: Armor

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Huh, bows add SB now? It seems like ranged weapons do about as much damage as melee weapons from just the base weapon.

E: It also seems like there's a ton of Impale out there. Which is only going to make Crits even more common.

Night10194 fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Sep 24, 2018

Nuns with Guns
Jul 23, 2010

It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Night10194 posted:

Also the whole technomagic machine signal just seems like a way more boring idea than just, you know, playing resistance people.

I mentioned it before in the Kickstarter thread discussion but the portion of the pitch describing it as "cyberpunk" is particularly bizarre because his big selling point of putting the game in an 80s time period is how low-tech it is; i.e. smuggling secret recordings in cassette tapes, having to rely on pay phones and face-to-face time for interactions, having to a lot of walking and talking to research and recruit instead of relying on the internet, etc. Except the player characters are still Adam Jensen'd up and getting superpowers from radio signals. It's a really strange clash of themes.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

At a certain point, all these 'simulates a damage roll' traits like Impact and Damaging make me wonder why they bothered getting rid of the damage roll at all.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

WFRP 4e - How Am Armor

First up, armor damage. Armor is only damaged in two circumstances: a special ability that does it, like Hack, or a Critical Wound is deflected. More on that momentarily. When armor takes 1 Damage, you reduce the APs of that piece of armor by 1. So, what is deflection? Any time you would suffer a Critical Wound on a location protected by armor, you may choose to ignore the Critical Wound by taking 1 point of armor damage to that piece of armor, before taking Wounds. (So you're gonna take 1 more point of Damage, but hey! No crit.) Repairing armor costs 10% of the armor's base price per AP; you can do it yourself with an appropriate trade skill and tools...and, for plate, a workshop.

Soft Leather can be worn without penalty under any other armor. So do that!
Leather Jacks give 1 AP to Arms and Body, are Enc 1 and Common. They cost 12s.
Leather Jerkins give 1 AP to Body, are Enc 1 and Common. They cost 10s.
Leather Leggings give 1 AP to Legs, are Enc 1 and Common. They cost 14s.
Leather Skullcaps give 1 AP to Head, are Enc 0 and Common. They cost 8s.

Boiled Leather
Breastplates give 2 APs to Body, have Weakpoints, Enc 2 and Scarce. They cost 18s.

Mail gives -10 to Stealth per piece.
Mail Chausses give 2 APs to Legs, are Flexible, Enc 3 and Scarce. They cost 2GC.
Mail Coats give 2 APs to Arms and Body, are Flexible, Enc 3 and Common. They cost 3GC.
Mail Coifs give 2 APs to Head, -10 to Perception, are Flexible, Partial, Enc 2 and Scarce. They cost 1GC.
Mail Shirts give 2 APs to Body, are Flexible, Enc 2 and Scarce. They cost 2GC.

Plate gives -10 to Stealth per piece.
Breastplates give 2 APs tp Body, are Impenetrable, Weakpoints, Enc 3 and Scarce. They cost 10GC
Open Helms give 2 APs to Head, -10 to Perception, Partial, Enc 1 and Common. They cost 2GC.
Bracers give 2 APs to Arms, Impenetrable, Weakpoints, Enc 3 and Rare. They cost 8GC.
Plate Leggings give 2 APs to Legs, another -10 to Stealth, Impenetrable, Weakpoints, Enc 3 and Rare. They cost 10GC.
Helms give 2 APs to Head, -20 to Perception, Impenetrable, Weakpoints, Enc 2 and Rare. They cost 3GC.

Armor also has Qualities and Flaws.
Qualities
Flexible: You can wear this under a layer of non-Flexible armor, stacking their benefits.
Impenetrable: Critical Wounds against this location caused by odd numbers are ignored.
Flaws
Partial: Opponents rolling an even number to hit or a Critical Hit against this location ignore this armor's APs.
Weakpoints: Weapons with Impale that score a Critical ignore this armor's APs.

Other gear has prices. Containers have Encumbrance and also a limit on the Encumbrance that can be put in them in case you care about that. Coats are required to avoid cold exposure penalties. We also get Bugman's XXXXXX Ale. A pint of Bugman's counts as 4 points of normal ale for intoxication purposes, but gives immunity to Fear for 1d10 hours. Bugman's! We also get tool kits, and a note that while most tools are Improvised Weapons, the GM may allow heavy or sharp tools like a crowbar or sickle to count as a Hand Weapon. Legal documents, books, workshops, animals - chickens are hella cheap, btw, you can own a lot of chickens. We also get info on how much encumbrance any given animal can carry. Your average draught horse can handle 20, a mule can do 14. Riding horses get 16.

Drugs and poisons are interesting in that drugs are actually a neat tradeoff most of the time. Poisons are also quite nasty, but mostly Exotic.
Black Lotus is Exotic, 20GC, and meant to go on blades. Victims that take at least 1 Wound from a sap-coated blade take 2 Poisoned conditions, resisted with Endurance at -10.
Heartkill is Exotic, 40GC and is the venom of an Amphisbaena (a sort of rare two-headed snake) and a Jabberslythe. When ingested, it costs 4 Poisoned conditions, resisted with Endurance at -10.
Mad Cap Mushrooms are Exotic, 5GC and the stuff that Goblin fanatics eat before battle. They give +10 Strength, +4 Wounds and give the Frenzy Talent. When the effect ends, you take 1d10 Wounds and non-Greenskins must make an Endurance test or get a Minor Infection. They last while chewed and for 2d10 minutes after that.
Mandrake Root is Rare, 1GC and an addictive deliriant. Users must make a WP test each round to do anything, get only a Move or an Action, and halve their Movement. However, they get +20 to Cool tests. It lasts while chewed plus 1d10*10 minutes.
Moonflower is Scarce, 5GC and is a moss grown on leaves exclusively in Laurelorn, used by Elves to treat the Black Plague. It gives +30 to any associated tests for Elves to resist Black Plague and that's it. Anyone else can inhale its vapors and make a Willpower test at -30. Fail, you become Unconscious. Pass, you get +20 to Cool tests and 1 Fatigued condition. It is often used as an anaesthetic by expensive doctors. It lasts 1d10+5 hours.
Ranald's Delight is Scarce, 18s and an addictive stimulant made from sulfur, mercury and some other stuff. Inhaling it gives +1 Movement and +10 WS, S, T and Agi for 3 hours, after which you get -2 Movement and -20 WS, S, T and Agi for 21 hours.
Spit is Rare, 1GC5s and extracted from Chameleoleeches as a hallucinogen that causes visions of hings you deeply desire. Upon exposure, you must make a Toughness test at -30 or be lost a fully real fantasy left to the GM to handle. The effects last for 1d10 minutes.
Weirdroot is Rare, 4s and a common street drug, chewed for euphoria and hallucinations, which some say is connected to the Winds of Magic. It gives +10 to Toughness and WP tests, but -10 to Agility, Initiative and Intelligence tests for as long as you chew it, plus 1d10*10 minutes after.

Medicines!
Digestive Tonic is Common, 3s, and gives +20 to tests to recover from stomach ailments, such as the Galloping Trots or Bloody Flux.
Earth Root is Scarce, 5GC, and ingested to negate the effects of Buboes caused by Black Plague, though there's still visible swelling, and gives +10 to all tests related to the disease. You need 1 dose per day.
Faxtoryll is Exotic, 15s, and is smeared on a wound to remove all Bleeding conditions without a test. You need 1 dose per Critical Wound.
Healing Draughts are Scarce, 10s and, if you have more than 0 Wounds, give you +TB Wounds immediately. 1 dose per encounter.
Healing Poultices are Common, 12s and are made from animal dung and urine mixed with common herbs. Any Critical Wound treated with a Healing Poultice will not suffer Minor Infections.
Nightshade is Rare, 3GC and consuming a dose causes you to make an Endurance test or fall into a deep sleep after 2-3 hours, lasting 1d10+4 hours.
Salwort is Common, 12s and, when held under the nose, removes 1 Stunned condition. 1 dose per encounter.
Vitality Draughts are Scarce, 18s and remove all Fatigued conditions instantly.

Prosthetics! Most don't do much that's useful, but the following do:
False Legs are Scarce, Enc 2 and let you ignore 1 point of Movement loss due to the missing part, and let you spend XP to regain the other point and more XP to be able to Dodge again, as long as you have your false leg. They cost 16s.
Gilded Noses are Scarce and let you ignore the Fellowship loss for having no nose. They cost 18s and are usually actually made of wood or ceramic. They cost 18s.
Hooks are Commonm, Enc 1 and let you spend XP to buy off the penalties for not having two hands. Also, they count as Daggers in combat. They cost 3s4p.
Engineering Marvels are Exotic, Enc 1 and let you entirely ignore whatever they replace - ear, hand, arm or leg. If you ever take a Critical Wound to the marvel, however, it breaks down and must be repaired at 10% of base cost at least. They cost 20GC.
Wooden Teeth are Rare, cost 10s and let you ignore all penalties for lost teeth.

Next time: Bestiary

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

That is an awful lot of keeping track of dice tricks and book-keeping your armor's status.

Also, hilariously, I think that the way Reload works makes it so crossbows are actually terrible for a low-skill PC.

I am glad they added in the ability to buy Guts' arm.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Shocked I tell you

Night10194 posted:

At a certain point, all these 'simulates a damage roll' traits like Impact and Damaging make me wonder why they bothered getting rid of the damage roll at all.

You do have kinda of a damage roll, you add the SL to your damage. Damaging lets you change the number on the SL and Impact just means more damage.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

I'm saying they also have a lot of 0-9 variance special rules too that cover the same variance, while also having the accuracy and damage roll be the same.

There seems to be a lot more bookkeeping in 4e in general.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!
Hang on a moment, so you're saying that with sufficient XP expenditure, my crippled pirate with hooks for both hands, and two peg legs, will literally be every bit as agile as he was before he lost those parts?

furiously scribbles down character concept

Young Freud
Nov 26, 2006

Nuns with Guns posted:

I mentioned it before in the Kickstarter thread discussion but the portion of the pitch describing it as "cyberpunk" is particularly bizarre because his big selling point of putting the game in an 80s time period is how low-tech it is; i.e. smuggling secret recordings in cassette tapes, having to rely on pay phones and face-to-face time for interactions, having to a lot of walking and talking to research and recruit instead of relying on the internet, etc. Except the player characters are still Adam Jensen'd up and getting superpowers from radio signals. It's a really strange clash of themes.

Honestly, "a cadre of cyborg supersoldiers time-travelling back to the alternate '80s" would be SO loving on point for a Sigmata redo.

Terminator being the biggest influence, but I'd go the back story of Ninja Warriors, where you're a couple of ninja Terminators fighting a fascist US president and his army to liberate the country. Like just get rid of the technomagic radio signal, make the party all Terminators sent back in time to overthrow the government but have to deal with '80s technology for logistics.

Skellybones
May 31, 2011




Fun Shoe
So if I'm understanding right, a kitted- out knight is probably wearing soft leather, chain and plate on top of each other. The chain and plate stack, giving a total of 4, and the leather comes into play if their armour gets absolutely ruined, or maybe if the knight just get caught half-dressed. And a crit with an impaling weapon will ignore the 2 from the plate.

Is there anything for unusual materials or magic like weird dwarf and elf armour, chaos armour, monster hide?

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Normally a fully kitted knight would effectively be wearing the same thing, Leather, Mail, Plate elements in WHFRP 2e, that part hasn't changed.

Mors Rattus
Oct 25, 2007

FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

5 - the leather still adds in its single point of reliable protection.

The thing about special armors is basically it'd be 'remove flaws, add qualities' so Chaos Armor probably loses Weakpoints, say.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

5 armor is even the same amount of armor as in 2e. Armor has probably changed the least, aside from making armor penalties specific to stealth and insanely punishing.

Skellybones
May 31, 2011




Fun Shoe
I can't stop thinking about that novel where this poor guy has the worst adventure ever. Out of everything that happens to him, being puppeted around by a living suit of chaos armour for a couple of months while it eats him is probably the worst thing that happens to him.

ChaseSP
Mar 25, 2013



I don't see an option to install a weapon into an engineering marvel which is disgusting and any GM that wouldn't houserule that you can put a built in gun/weapon in it is a GM I have no interest in.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Fantasy has always passed the 'can you play Guts' rule but only for Golden Age, previously. I am glad of the addition of being able to play post-Eclipse, too.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Young Freud posted:

I'm honestly reminded, with this difference between Sigmata and Spire and the ethics of killing fascists out of uniform, the recent passing of a female Dutch freedom fighter who, during WW2, killed Nazis by seducing them, getting them liquored up, leading them out to the forest for woods sex and her and her sister shooting them in the head.

Fade to black.

Yeah, they were awesome, but that'd be creepy as hell at the table. Spire is more transgressive in some spots, but even in that game that'd require some serious OOC discussion.

We should have a Spire thread. We should also have set of generic rules for running a revolution or insurgency in an RPG.

Young Freud posted:

Terminator being the biggest influence, but I'd go the back story of Ninja Warriors, where you're a couple of ninja Terminators fighting a fascist US president and his army to liberate the country. Like just get rid of the technomagic radio signal, make the party all Terminators sent back in time to overthrow the government but have to deal with '80s technology for logistics.

Not even Skynet thinks humanity deserves Stigmata.

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised.

Cythereal posted:

I'm definitely getting the feeling that the Slayers have bled over into the Empire, just manifesting in more (flagellants) or less (Wolf-Kin) unusual ways from human culture and religion.

I did picture a Slayer ending up with a party of Zealots and feeling oddly at home.

A bunch of good-natured suicidal fanatics would make a hilarious adventuring party.

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