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Lysidas posted:so some linux kernel devs/contributors are apparently threatning to pull the license grant for the code they contributed to the kernel, over the new coc poking around that site i notice that they appear to filter 'gently caress' the same way as is done here either way to hell with those dudes
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Sep 24, 2018 20:25
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| # ? Apr 25, 2024 12:42 |
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HACKEWRS CAN TURN YOUR COC INTO A BOMB
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Sep 24, 2018 20:31
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Lysidas posted:so some linux kernel devs/contributors are apparently threatning to pull the license grant for the code they contributed to the kernel, over the new coc i'm p sure there hasn't been one actual kernel dev/contributor that's agreed to this just the kotakuinaction crowd doing their usual thing my favorite part is all the "these guys are doing this to save the kernel from SJWs", as if advancing ideas that would destroy the backbone of opensource if they were plausible is some heroic act in the face of... a kernel dev or two being ousted?
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Sep 24, 2018 20:34
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yeah i should have thought twice before linking to that site and just posted the message directly from LKML, and agreed, ill be really surprised if one actual kernel dev wants to withdraw anything
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Sep 24, 2018 20:40
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nobody's agreed to it because you can't actually do it
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Sep 24, 2018 20:41
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Condiv posted:i'm p sure there hasn't been one actual kernel dev/contributor that's agreed to this esr's got a post : http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=8139 i skimmed thru the comments but didn't have the fortitude to actually read most of them, but i see they're still mad about systemd, trotskyists, and maoists, and talking up vox day, comicsgate, jordan petersen with some kiwifarms links i did see somebody talking about 'r6rs' and got curious and hence: quote:
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Sep 24, 2018 20:51
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the new yorker was asking questions about treatment of women. the companies that actually make linux development happen confronted linus about how bad it was going to make them look. boom, instant about-face color me UNIMPRESSED!
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Sep 24, 2018 20:54
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RMS, Right again: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-assign.en.html
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Sep 24, 2018 20:57
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So is 2018 the year of wayland on the linux desktop on the desktop or no? It doesn't seem to be making much progress.
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Sep 25, 2018 05:45
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the year of wayland atop systemd as the kernel becomes vestigial
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Sep 25, 2018 07:33
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wayland has almost reached beta at which point it will be superseded by, i dont fuckin know, some poo poo called corundum or something
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Sep 25, 2018 07:39
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and all applications will still be responsible for rendering their own widgets, ensuring inconsistency maybe it’ll go all the way Microsoft and switch to a system where there’s no reasonable default UI at all and everything needs to be styled, but all styling is app specific so native apps somehow look and behave even worse than web sites or maybe there’ll be a resurgence of interest in Xview (I’ve been trying to find the source for the pre-X Andrew window system, I‘m pretty I have a copy of the CMU Computer Club’s hacked up wmc variant somewhere…)
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Sep 25, 2018 08:00
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eschaton posted:or maybe there’ll be a resurgence of interest in Xview Athena widgets by default. Who started pushing wayland as an X replacement anyways? I've been seeing that it's coming since like 2012, but so far it hasn't swooped in and saved us from 1980s system constraints.
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Sep 25, 2018 08:13
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yeah, i also implement all my graphic toolkits from scratch why is client side rendering a problem, it's not like you have to think about it if you're writing a program in gtk or qt or whatever
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Sep 25, 2018 08:14
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wayland works fine except when it doesn't (desktop sharing and gaming comes to mind) it's been the default in fedora for a while, works great for a normal tear-free desktop use case
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Sep 25, 2018 08:17
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I use Wayland every day and the only real issue I've ran into is Java apps on high dpi monitors. They don't scale and end up tiny.
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Sep 25, 2018 08:44
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Lysidas posted:so some linux kernel devs/contributors are apparently threatning to pull the license grant for the code they contributed to the kernel, over the new coc pretty bad article but it did confirm that Theodore Ts’o is a real piece of work ❤️💕 if you rape someone but both you and your victim were blackout drunk then it’s not rape. also if your victim later consents to having sex with you then the earlier one wasn’t rape either. or if they just don’t report it as such.... some top tips here for any LinuxCon attendees  ❤️💕- Theodore Ts’o like what’s it gonna take to be rid of this rear end in a top hat?
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Sep 25, 2018 09:18
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The older I get the more I believe nerds are actually terrible and I was just blind to it my entire life.
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Sep 25, 2018 09:20
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while the social issues which are at the root of this happening are more important than the tech issues as such; people can just revoke stuff under gplv2? how the gently caress is this not going to eventually break every gplv2 project as people with a revision from 1997 which has since morphed into something sprawling the entire project revokes the license?
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Sep 25, 2018 09:22
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Max Facetime posted:like what’s it gonna take to be rid of this rear end in a top hat? What's it going to take for people who don't even contribute to the kernel to shut up and let the kernel dev community figure this poo poo out reasonably. Edit: I'm coming back to this because Theodore Ts'o has made excellent contributions to the kernel over the years. Oh well if his views on what constitutes legal rape don't match Sage Sharp so long as he isn't horndogging on interns or telling people in the queer community they will burn in hell as part of his role on the advisory board. The kernel is a technical project that needs to have a more inclusive communication style. It isn't in need of a political purge. Please note, I am not diminishing what rape is, and or any particular person's experience. However, I *am* challenging the use of statistics that may be hyperbolic and misleading, and ultimately may be very counterproductive if it causes people to become afraid when the reality might not be as horrible as the "1 in 4" numbers might at first sound. Just as it was wrong for George Bush to inspire fear in the population so he could push his War Against Iraq agenda through congress, it's also wrong for people who, out of good intentions, inspire fear in others or themselves of being raped if the statistics used are misleading and manipulated. - Total rape apologist right there. SYSV Fanfic fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Sep 25, 2018 |
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Sep 25, 2018 09:25
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:while the social issues which are at the root of this happening are more important than the tech issues as such; people can just revoke stuff under gplv2? how the gently caress is this not going to eventually break every gplv2 project as people with a revision from 1997 which has since morphed into something sprawling the entire project revokes the license? Someone volunteers to rewrite the code. Kernel code is pretty stupidly simple for the most part so having someone rewrite sections isn't going to break the entire ecosystem.
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Sep 25, 2018 09:27
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Like the complicated bits come from paid contributors. If some neckbeard wants to revoke their driver code for a pcmcia card that hasn't been in production since 2001 but stays in the kernel tree because a single user in rural alabama depends on it then oh well, huge loss. I haven't seen anyone who contributes to the core (include/linux/*) threaten to revoke anything. Please post people ranting if this is true.
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Sep 25, 2018 09:32
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been a while since i found myself at groklaw http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2006062204552163 perhaps something has changed, but a better bet than believing in esr's reading of law
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Sep 25, 2018 09:40
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:been a while since i found myself at groklaw http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2006062204552163 That's pretty much what I figured. I think some bad actor would have done it by now if it were legally possible.
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Sep 25, 2018 09:48
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it still baffles me that those people believe that "meritocracy" means "people who write good code are allowed to be assholes"
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Sep 25, 2018 10:59
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SYSV Fanfic posted:What's it going to take for people who don't even contribute to the kernel to shut up and let the kernel dev community figure this poo poo out reasonably. oh yeah, that’s the good stuff, where did you find this apologist? e:  don’t worry LinuxCon attendees, the reality might not be as horrible as the statistics would have you believe
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Sep 25, 2018 11:07
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Max Facetime posted:oh yeah, that’s the good stuff, where did you find this apologist? You realize he was discussing a presentation at that con right? The main reason sniveling asshats like ESR have an audience is your attitude.
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Sep 25, 2018 11:21
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SYSV Fanfic posted:You realize he was discussing a presentation at that con right? The main reason sniveling asshats like ESR have an audience is your attitude. hmm, yes, the toxicity of parts of the community is clearly the fault of sjws, and if we would just police our tone more carefully then
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Sep 25, 2018 11:38
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SYSV Fanfic posted:You realize he was discussing a presentation at that con right? The main reason sniveling asshats like ESR have an audience is your attitude. unironically arguing that we should appease the shitheads to keep them from making noise ityool 2018
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Sep 25, 2018 11:38
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SYSV Fanfic posted:You realize he was discussing a presentation at that con right? The main reason sniveling asshats like ESR have an audience is your attitude. someone in yospos laughing at you for having a garbage opinion isn't why esr has an audience 
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Sep 25, 2018 11:40
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Ironically the behavior the new CoC would curb ITT.
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Sep 25, 2018 11:45
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Soldier of Fortran posted:someone in yospos laughing at you for having a garbage opinion isn't why esr has an audience They aren't laughing is the problem. Serious question: Would you guys seriously throw Theo off the technical committee for that statement?
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Sep 25, 2018 11:48
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Would C-SPAM let us have a thread about this without gassing it?
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Sep 25, 2018 11:49
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SYSV Fanfic posted:Would C-SPAM let us have a thread about this without gassing it? yeah you should definitely embarrass yourself in cspam too
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Sep 25, 2018 11:58
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SYSV Fanfic posted:They aren't laughing is the problem. Serious question: Would you guys seriously throw Theo off the technical committee for that statement? no i would throw him off for these statements: ❤️💕 OK, let's do a thought experiment, shall we? Suppose Alice and Bob have sex, and Bob is drunk. Did Alice rape Bob? He was drunk, and someone who is drunk presumably can't give consent. Is that rape? Does the gender of the two people matter? Suppose Bob was partially inebriated, and said he wasn't sure if he wanted to have sex, but Alice wheedled him and kept on asking until he said yes. No force was involved, but he could be "psychologically coerced"? Would that be an indication that she raped him? Suppose Bob drank the alcohol himself, willingly. And if he was still raped, does he bear any responsibility for put himself into a situation where Alice could ask and ask him until he said yes? Now suppose Alice is also drunk. Now did she rape Bob? Or did Bob rape Alice now? Or did Alice and Bob rape each other? Let's throw them both in jail! Now, actually, the way the law works is that not only does the being raped be not able to give consent, but that the rapist has to know that the the other person was not able to give legal consent. So if both Alice and Bob were drunk, there's no rape that has taken place, in either direction. Whew! So one of the problems with the Koss study is the women in question was only asked, did sex take place, and were you drunk and not able to give consent. She did not ask the question, did the other person legally know that the women was drunk. And given that the survey was asking undergraduates, and apparently on a campus where there was a lot of drinking and socializing going on, do you think that perhaps the numbers might be skewed by cases where both parties were drunk (and thus not legally able to know whether someone was legally able to give consent)? How many cases that might be, we won't know for sure, but it's certainly enough to call that survey flawed. All aside from the legal question, there's also the question, in the Alice and Bob thought experiment, regardless of whether Alice is guilty of raping Bob (assume that Bob was inebriated and couldn't give consent, and she knew that Bob was drunk), should Bob be faulted for putting him into a situation where he was so drunk that he couldn't take responsibility for himself? What if it was pretty clear that he regularly did this *because* he could lose control and not take responsibility for what he did? Suppose he hadn't yet had sex without giving consent? Would, should he, face opprobrium for his actions? If yes, does that magically go away once he is raped, and is now a victim, since that would now be blaming the victim? My personal opinion is that things aren't black and white, and even if Alice is guilty of raping him, Bob should also be faulted for his contribution towards the incident, and should take at least some responsibility for avoiding being put in similar situations in the future. Now, people might complain that I'm playing games by switching the genders around. But, should the gender of the parties make a difference? Be careful, lest you start arguing that the female sex is the weaker sex, and should be coddled because they can't take responsibility for their own actions when both parties are totally or partially inebriated. At least some people, such as Ms. Koss, has in fact been guilty of making that argument. Personally, it's not an issue for me because I strongly don't believe in going to parties where a lot of one-night stands are negotiated, nor do I like situations where a lot of alcohol is consumed. So I'm also predisposed to not have a lot of sympathy for both parties --- male or female, attacker or victim --- who put themselves in such situations. And how would you feel if someone generated a study where a bunch of males were asked whether they had sex while inebriated, and then announced some statistic indicating that (surprise!) a huge number of undergraduate males are raped, and that statistic was being blindly repeated without anyone asking whether that statistic was valid, and in fact, accused anyone who questioned said survey has proof positive that the questioner was insensitive to the needs of males? ❤️💕 -- Ted
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Sep 25, 2018 12:06
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SYSV Fanfic posted:They aren't laughing is the problem. Serious question: Would you guys seriously throw Theo off the technical committee for that statement? would i fire an employee going 'it is not rape if you're drunk' in a public discussion about the harassment policy of a trade show the company was organizing? yes, yes i would, and i find the analogy to be instructive as the only real sticking point of the question is what position i'd be in to throw him out
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Sep 25, 2018 12:10
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Soldier of Fortran posted:yeah you should definitely embarrass yourself in cspam too Except all I'm saying is that the people who actually contribute to the kernel that have reservations about a CoC are worried that a small group with fervently held beliefs would use it to persecute them for statements that even RAIN wouldn't consider rape apology.
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Sep 25, 2018 12:11
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:would i fire an employee going 'it is not rape if you're drunk' in a public discussion about the harassment policy of a trade show the company was organizing? yes, yes i would, and i find the analogy to be instructive as the only real sticking point of the question is what position i'd be in to throw him out He isn't directly an employee though. This all started as a personal project thirty years ago, and Linus has been avoiding democratizing it for some time. Most of the original contributors still see it and their role in it the same way it was in the 90s. It looks like that is finally starting to change, and I'm glad that people don't have to worry about being called idiots because they don't use a double pointer for the head of their linked list.
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Sep 25, 2018 12:16
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SYSV Fanfic posted:Except all I'm saying is that the people who actually contribute to the kernel that have reservations about a CoC are worried that a small group with fervently held beliefs would use it to persecute them for statements that even RAIN wouldn't consider rape apology. maybe this is a thing we can worry about if it ever shows any signs of happening? women have been complaining about ts’o’s rape apology ever since he said those things. it’s not some new thing where rabid sjws are seeing a coc and immediately going digging through random people’s post histories looking for things to take out of context and be offended by
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Sep 25, 2018 12:22
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SYSV Fanfic posted:He isn't directly an employee though. This all started as a personal project thirty years ago, and Linus has been avoiding democratizing it for some time. Most of the original contributors still see it and their role in it the same way it was in the 90s. It looks like that is finally starting to change, and I'm glad that people don't have to worry about being called idiots because they don't use a double pointer for the head of their linked list. you asked whether i would kick him, if the ability to do so is *not* hypothetically implied i guess i indeed would not 
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Sep 25, 2018 12:28
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