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Cythereal posted:Also I can't imagine Brets being comfortable with a holiday about everyone getting drunk and having fun together. There's decorum and proper social etiquette that must be observed at all times, after all. Brets love getting drunk! You just do it with the same social class instead of mixing them at festival, like the Empire does. E: In general, alcohol is the fuel of the entire Old World, really. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Sep 28, 2018 |
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Sep 28, 2018 17:26
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Sovcits however aren't pure empiricists, because they then add on elaborate 'loopholes' and belief in weird fictitious persons and huge government gold funds owed to everyone. Their defining quality is thinking that any tools of professional analysis or reasoning are nonsense and they are personally capable of recognizing and utilizing the real way society works, which is a secret array of incomprehensible magic laws and symbolism like that robe thing.
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Sep 28, 2018 18:02
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JcDent posted:Except for the fact that every time the fluff writes from Nurgle perspective, they're super happy with their station and the diseases and whatnot, like a captain Planet villain. They inflict other people with despair. Then when the despairing accept Nurgle they will stop being in despair and become happy with their lot.
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Sep 28, 2018 20:00
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Why their joy is just infectious! Compared to the other chaos gods Nurgles are probably the best off.
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Sep 28, 2018 20:10
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MonsterEnvy posted:They inflict other people with despair. Then when the despairing accept Nurgle they will stop being in despair and become happy with their lot. Nurgle is the god of abusive relationships?
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Sep 28, 2018 20:35
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Cythereal posted:Nurgle is the god of abusive relationships? Yes. This is it precisely and always has been.
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Sep 28, 2018 20:51
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Probably my least favorite take on him to be honest. I enjoy the Chaos Gods most as dark reflections of Human Virtues taken to grotesque excess. Khorne is the most obvious - the glorification of War, Courage, and Honor. Slaneesh as the shadow of gods like Athena, Aphrodite, Dionysus - culture, fertility, pleasure. Tzeentch is practically a God I'd already worship if he wasn't actually an rear end in a top hat Genie. Nurgle as the God of survival, fortitude, and stoicism in the face of adversity.
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Sep 28, 2018 21:12
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wow, never seen someone actually stan the Chaos Gods
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Sep 28, 2018 21:15
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Mors Rattus posted:wow, never seen someone actually stan the Chaos Gods Literally don't know how you run a Chaos 40k game with the current lovely gods. Edit: the "I'd worship Tzch if he wasn't a dick" was mostly in reference to his supposed version as the God of (dark) Magic, (evil) Knowledge, (stupid) Plans, and (lame) Secrets. Except he's actually an Evil Genie who fucks up your wishes and gives you tentacles which is dumb. Edit edit: I also really dislike abusive themes in RPGs in general in a way that isn't really rational, even if they're used effectively or respectfully. Tibalt fucked around with this message at 21:22 on Sep 28, 2018 |
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Sep 28, 2018 21:17
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Tibalt posted:Literally don't know how you run a Chaos 40k game with the current lovely gods. Generally, you don't. You run a Chaos 40k game with crazy rear end in a top hat cultists and worshipers, not the gods or daemons themselves.
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Sep 28, 2018 21:21
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I also prefer the "When the Emperor dies he'll apotheosis into becoming the Fifth Chaos God" fan theory so I'm probably not in the mainstream.
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Sep 28, 2018 21:30
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Tibalt posted:Literally don't know how you run a Chaos 40k game with the current lovely gods.
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Sep 28, 2018 21:35
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Also, like, stoic resilience is Shallya, honor and martial glory is Ulric, cunning, learning, and questioning tradition are Verena and Ranald, and passion/beauty are effectively Taal and Rhya. Also, I certainly understand preferring to keep abusive themes out and it's one of the reasons I basically never use Nurgle when writing, myself.
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Sep 28, 2018 21:40
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Other gods so the same thing as Chaos, but Chaos gives you the power easily. You have to earn it otherwise - Chaos wants you to take it, and then you're stuck.
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Sep 28, 2018 21:50
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Cythereal posted:Nurgle is the god of abusive relationships? Brings a whole new meaning to "toxic masculinity" amiright? right? No? I'm stupid and I should feel bad? Yeah. That sounds accurate.
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Sep 28, 2018 22:43
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Tibalt posted:I also prefer the "When the Emperor dies he'll apotheosis into becoming the Fifth Chaos God" fan theory so I'm probably not in the mainstream. St. Celestine is pretty much an Imperial daemon so it's not that far off.
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Sep 29, 2018 02:01
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wiegieman posted:Other gods so the same thing as Chaos, but Chaos gives you the power easily. You have to earn it otherwise - Chaos wants you to take it, and then you're stuck. If they did that Id be way more accepting of it. Instead like everything you see in game is like “heres a magic sword, oh haha it sucks mechanically and also it causes your arm to fall off so you cant even use it” If the Chaos gods were more a “the first hit is free” power source itd work a lot better.
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Sep 29, 2018 02:13
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I still like that WF has Necromancy be a totally different and opposed source of evil magic power to Chaos.
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Sep 29, 2018 02:41
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My apologies for interrupting chaos corner, but I started this. FFRRPG Part 4: Expert Jobs Part 1 So unlike warriors who are rather straight forward Experts are mostly furiously dumb, also we have to bring in the terrible skill system again. Expert ability CoS is based on Half Key Skill+Lvl+Main Stat*2, So I need to remember the terrible skill system. A skill can start with a max of 40% and can be raised by 10% per level(of the 20 points you get) up to 100% so after wasting half your skill advancement for 6 levels you hit 100% in your key skill. This gives you an Expertise of 50+Lvl+Stat*2....The same chances fighters have been using since lvl 1. WHAT IS THE POINT, WHY NOT JUST SAY THEY START WITH 100% IN THEIR ASSOCIATED SKILL AND USE THE NORMAL MIND AND DEX SCORES. Right, that complaining over, the jobs themselves are mostly a flaming pile like expertise, except the Bard and Chemist....who we start with. The Bard Bards have a charge time on their abilities, bards have basically a magic school. Now as dumb as picking spells is, Bards get EVERY SONG SPELL OF THEIR LEVEL ALL OF THEM. Also all bard songs either hit all enemies or all allies, I'm just going to list the giant long list of statuses they can apply at level up. Level 1-Hide, oh you can also hide which is the invincibility portion of dragoon's jump if you don't want to apply AoE status effects. Level 1-Reduce Init by 25%(doesn't break charge), Spirit Up, Agility Up, 1*Mag Water Damage. Level 10- Sleep, Mental Up, Armor Up, 4*Mag Shadow damage with a chance of curse(Black mages don't get access to single target curse til 33) Level 19- Poison, Power Up, Magic Up, 7*Mag damage with a chance of silence Level 28- Eject if hp 25% or lower, Add element to all weapons, Gain Resistance to any element, 10*Mag damage ignoring every defense short of invincibility Level 37- Reduce init by 50%(no charge break still), Accuracy & Critical Up, I: Sleep Poison Blind Berserk Zombie, 13*Mag damage with a chance to slow Level 46- Reduce hp by 50%, Reduce mp by 50%, Regen, Random positive status Level 55- Mini, Reduce mp use by 25%, Protect AND Shell, 19*Mag damage with a chance to confuse Level 64- Inflict weak to any element, Haste, Power Magic Armor and Mental Up, 22 * Mag with a chance to petrify Playable Level: 1 The bards ability to grant tons of statuses for the entire party is straight up, no joke, broken. I could nominally diss their Flat damage CT abilities....but why? Who cares? You have so many abilities you aren't missing out having one attack per ability tier. Sure some of their abilities are kinda weak, but again who cares you have so many that are so good. Like there's not enough I can say about how crazy brokenly good the bard is. Chemist Oh boy the chemist, chemists are the only other playable expert along with bard. They are also the ONLY viable replacement for a white mage, which yes a healer is mandatory, this is an FF game remember? Level 1- Pharmacology, This is the core of your class and a potent ability. Recovery items get x2 as effective, Raise items heal 25% max hp, and Status healers grant immunity to the status. THIS IS AMAZING. Level 11- Treatment, Negates any bad effects from negative statuses until the end of the turn. It also hits the entire party. Also the statuses will wear off even while you use treatment. Don't have the cure? Just treat it. Level 22- Distribute, Any overhealing from your items you get to divide up, if you use a group item only one person's excess gets distributed, if you use an item that full heals the overhealing is their current hp/mp. Ummmm yeah, This is just good not much to say. Level 34- Mix, groan gently caress mix, while it only uses normal items you have to consult a giant rear end chart with i poo poo you not 304 results to get what happened from the two things you mixed. This is a HELL of a lot of power and utility at your finger tips, but consulting the chart is awful. Also Graviball+Ink, You're welcome. Level 47- W-Item, When you use the item action you get to do it twice, no CT or anything here, you just get to chuck two items. Level 61- Auto Potion, Are you hit by something? Are you alive? Use any item that helps deal with what hit you. Playable Level: 1 Chemists as stated are the only viable heal slave than the white mage, they are possibly better at that, they don't obsolete the whitemage but they sure are good. They also have a lot of power and versatility at high levels with Mix and W-Item allowing them to basically do anything(for a chart) or chuck two different relevant effects at once. Also their expertise skill is alchemy which let's them use the crafting rules to brew potions, you know those items you'll by consuming by the buckets since you replaced the whitemage? Also yes there are crafting rules, they don't make me want to tear my hair out beyond their existence. Welp as noted, this is the last playable expert, it's all down hill from here. Dancer Ahhahahahhahaha, oh my god, dancers, sweet god dancers. You pick an ability tier, roll 1d6 on 1-5 you use that ability on a 6 you make a normal attack doing 75% damage. Level 1- Flirt, This makes people not attack you, it uses your mind and not your expertise, on the plus side that means it isn't randomly poo poo until lvl7, on the downside it uses your MAG instead of AGI. Level 1- Perform tier 1, Sleep, Poison, Confuse, 50% attack damage as mp damage, Blind Level 15- Perform tier 2, Slow, 50% attack damage drains, Share someone's "Space" making them take the damage you do, Cancel all barrier statuses on enemies, Reduce enemy hp by 33% Level 30- Perform tier 3- Sap(time poison), attack ground for 100%, Petrify(stoned in 4 turns), Power down(a shity version or power break) with a chance to crit into power break, magic down with a chance to crit into magic break Level 45- Perform tier 4- Random status on all enemies, attack for 100% and 50% to mp, Mini, Death, Weak to Element Level 60- Perform tier 5- Attack for 200%, Skip next action for all enemies, Meltdown(Def=0) on all enemies, Venom(Super poison), Dance twice Playable Level- Completely Unplayable This class isn't a never, it's just unplayable, let's ignore the 1/6th chance of your abilities randomly defaulting to "Attack but worse". The ability you get is COMPLETELY RANDOM, all you do is dance and that requires a die roll every time, and god help you if you need a specific debilitating status or you roll something the enemy is immune to, or you absolutely need a certain single option like the barrier break. Ignore the dancer and never look back. Engineer loving hell you actually have to play with the crafting rules. Level 1- Invention, This is basically a full class progression in itself, that you custom make. There's a number of limits for how many points you can spend, what effects you can apply, and you can only have one invention of each "Tier" (1 at 1, 1 at 2 etc.), it uses a point system to create abilities. So yeah basically whatever your party doesn't need go supply it. You also have to put a defect on these, these include chance of shooting yourself(or the enemy with positive statuses), charge time, pretend your a samurai but with no CT, chance to just fail, or pay money every time you use the invention. For your starting invention I suggest single target damage 4*Agi with charge time, that will put you above the great sword monk. Level 11- Peep, It let's you see enemy stats. Useful enough I suppose. Level 22- Reclaim, A CHANCE to get crafting materials for your inventions after CONSTRUCT type enemies were slain in a battle. Level 34- Dismantler, Fast action death but only on constructs. Who are likely to be immune to death by flavor... Level 47- Maintance, grants the party immune:Weaken status(Stat down/break) doesn't remove any existing ones so when you find a use it's a bit late. Level 61- Dual Invention, You can use two lvl5 or lower inventions. Playable level- 8 I'll say 8 because you have your 4*Agi death beam and an invention that does something useful. That doesn't make this class GOOD. Invention is a giant loving hassle for both you the player(Having to make inventions), and the GM(the ability to rearrange basically your entire kit functionally at will is kinda stupid.). This isn't a bad class in the power sense, Not at all it's plenty breakable as the 4*Agi lvl1 laser shows, it's just TERRIBLY TERRIBLY DESIGNED going against all the core precepts of the other classes. But hey maybe that's what you want, that case go use your big engineer brain to have the perfect tool for every occasion by "mid" level. Gambler Hahahahhahaha, oh my god, it's back to randomness isn't it? Yes, yes it is. Level 1- Fortune, You get critical hits and crit succeed skill checks at 1-20 it's...there? It's cute to get +Out of Combat Crit. Level 1- Double Up, When you use a slot you can pay 50% more gill to roll twice...Yes, slots cost gill, because RANDOM OUTCOMES isn't enough of a payment. If you get the same result on both dice you lose your action and take 10% max hp damage, yay. Level 15- Dice, Roll 2d6 multiply by your level, do that much damage. It's ummmm, it exists? It does ok damage when you get it I guess? Level 29- Lucky 7, Anytime your final digit of hp drops to 7 from damage counter for 7 damage if you miss, 77 on a hit, or 777 on a crit. This is will occasionally just kill poo poo at the level you get it, but that's rare and at later levels it has to crit to do relevant damage. Level 36- Do Over, Repay for a slot to try again but if you get the same result lose your action and take 10% max hp damage. Level 36- Bribe, Pay a monster for a chance at success based on it's gil value(which you don't know), if you succeed it is ejected and drops it's very rare item. Just, just, WHAT? There is so much wrong here I can't begin to fathom, pay money and an action for a basically random chance of success, which if you succeed you get the very rare item of the monster(But not the exp or gp.) Level 43- Phantom Dice, no draw back random statuses to the group, now THIS is what i'd expect from the gambler, pay randomness for powerful effects. Positive statuses include exp and gp up, i poo poo you not. Level 64- Spare Change, Spend an amount of gil deal that much/10 to all enemies max of 999. Now see, this is a fine ability for chucking around gil. It just works. Get it at lvl64 though. Wait where are the slots you have two abilities refrencing slots, well they are listed after all that so I'll save them. Level 1- Elemental Reels, Roll to attack with a random element....Wow this was nerfed this used to be roll three times pick one and if you got three of the same you hit a group with that element. This is crap, never use it. 10gil a wasted action. Level 8- Moogle Reels, Pay 25 gil and roll a d10 to see what you MIGHT do, then make two gambling checks if either fail either you get the lovely toy box effect, of course you have 100% gambling so you could ignore this if the best 2 effects didn't apply a -20 and -30 to your skill check. Still it's a decent array of effects for the level you get it. Level 22- Status Reels, Pay 50 gil and roll a d10 to see what status you might hit everyone with, use expertise-evasion one for the highest evade target one for the lowest if one succeeds hit a random enemy with that status if both succeed hit all enemies with that status. Monsters unlike players add lvl to evade so there's a good chance this doesn't work, pass. Level 43- Chocobo Reels, Pay 200 gil to use the upgraded moogle reels, everything but the weakest result has a gambling penalty now but the fail result is a half decent party heal but if both rolls fail you inflict death randomly on half the combatants. Level 50- Attack Reels, Pay 400 gil Attack 3 times on a single target using expertise but it can crit. It exists i suppose. Level 57- Magic Reels, Pay 500 gil and roll 3d10 to determine the spell's level(3-8), number of times cast(1-3x) and the spell used, There's also a chance of getting some special other effects. There's also no gambling rolls and the worst outcome is "Nothing happens" (a 9 on spells cast and no 10s). Playable level: 8/43 I mean you are nominally playable with moogle reels but that will fall behind, by the 20s until you get to chocobo reels, at that point you'll stop being bad and do well throughout the rest of your progression. But that's the 40s which is way too late to be playable. I'd call the class out for it's randomness, but it's the GAMBLER you signed up for that, and unlike the dancer you have a lot more control over what you are getting. Want positive status? You get that. Want damage? you get that. Of course the random gambling rolls on you know random effects, and gil costs on random effects, are incredibly stupid. As is you know TAKING TIL LEVEL 43 to do what the class wants to do reasonably reliably. Edit: Having actually read the abomination that is skill system, you can't max out your gambling skill till lvl26, putting this class at playable level 43 as moogle reels will fail a reasonable amount of the time thus moogle reels and those will fall behind by the time you max out your skill. Next time: Mediator, Mime, and Thief WhitemageofDOOM fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Oct 3, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 02:46
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I've never really understood what Returners is actually trying to do.
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Sep 29, 2018 02:47
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Has anyone done FFd6 yet? It's about as well balanced as a stick of old dynamite on a tightrope but it's actually fun to play, which puts it head and shoulders above every other FF tabletop game.
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Sep 29, 2018 02:54
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Night10194 posted:I've never really understood what Returners is actually trying to do. It's trying to basically create a system that is EXACTLY Final Fantasy Tactics but as a tabletop RPG, only without actually understanding the mechanical balance or considerations that went into it (Also without showing understanding that even FFT wasn't perfectly balanced and that some classes in it were badly designed), and then with a bunch of stuff from other FF games tossed in incredibly superficially (I.E. the races),
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Sep 29, 2018 03:04
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OvermanXAN posted:It's trying to basically create a system that is EXACTLY Final Fantasy Tactics but as a tabletop RPG, only without actually understanding the mechanical balance or considerations that went into it (Also without showing understanding that even FFT wasn't perfectly balanced and that some classes in it were badly designed), and then with a bunch of stuff from other FF games tossed in incredibly superficially (I.E. the races), * It's free * It's Final Fantasy, that thing you love!
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Sep 29, 2018 03:23
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There are lots of levels too. Lots and lots and lots of levels.
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Sep 29, 2018 03:26
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Barudak posted:If they did that Id be way more accepting of it. Instead like everything you see in game is like “heres a magic sword, oh haha it sucks mechanically and also it causes your arm to fall off so you cant even use it” The weird thing is the actual Chaos Weapons, the marquee customized magic weapons you get for being a Champion, don't do this. They just give a minor penalty to tests to avoid mutation and look evil on magical sense. They don't actually corrupt the wielder at all, and it's even possible for Chaos to gently caress up making one and make a weapon that slowly cleanses the wielder of mutations (and Chaos Rewards, if you're a Chaos PC) and will eventually free them from Chaos. It is, in fact, possible for them to use too many desecrated holy creatures in forging a Dark Lord's evil sword and accidentally make a holy sword of redemption that eventually gives them back their soul and that is extremely powerful against Chaos beasts. All the other various Chaos weapons in the magic item chapter outside of the custom reward weapons are all full of 'totally turbofucks your character immediately' though. Even if you're playing as Chaos, because getting too many Mutations will turn you into a Chaos Spawn and kill your PC. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Sep 29, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 03:27
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I do appreciate 4e's main way to gain Corruption besides 'be around Chaos poo poo' is that you can take a Corruption point to get a free reroll when all else has failed you, always, period.
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Sep 29, 2018 03:57
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I also appreciate that 4e seems to have dropped the dogshit Insanity system. Man, does Insanity ever get abused like crazy in the premades, without any reflection on the fact that almost any of the Insanities in the books make a PC pretty much unplayable and are usually mechanically crippling. Seriously Insanity is one of the worst handled mechanics in 2e, especially as everything like 'taking a critical' grants Insanity. Thankfully, Insanity is optional. Also the only real way to cure it is to get a Shallyan to tap you on the head and instantly remove it with magic, which absolutely works. Night10194 fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Sep 29, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 04:02
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Night10194 posted:I've never really understood what Returners is actually trying to do. I can only speak of 3e as i was helping develop it for quite awhile. "Fix 2e, make the classes actually balanced and distinct" But it doesn't, I've rated multiple classes COMPLETELY unplayable already, white mage or chemist is mandatory. Nessus posted:Yeah as best as I can tell the appeal of Returners is Basically, and there's two better games that fulfill that. One of which that is actually fun! Barudak posted:There are lots of levels too. Lots and lots and lots of levels. This is DEFINITELY a problem, most classes aren't even playable out of the gate because abilities have to be spread out over the levels. Leraika posted:Has anyone done FFd6 yet? It's about as well balanced as a stick of old dynamite on a tightrope but it's actually fun to play, which puts it head and shoulders above every other FF tabletop game. No, and all of that is true, would people like me to do that next instead of BESM 3e? ------------- Also there is way too much loving math, you would think accuracy would be something sane like 100%-Evade% for normal attacks, then status attacks could be 50+Attack Stat*2-Evade% but nope! Let's calculate level mods and poo poo! Also armor, armor as damage reduction is a bitch to calculate and heavily emphasizes large attacks (Enough armor to shave off 1/4th the damage of an auto attack means a 75% attack takes off half of that, and the 150% attack is only hit by 18%. This by the way was a constant problem they had that armor numbers were never right, but no one would take.) Also the sheer loving number of save or dies, this is the reason Weaken is the best status type to inflict it doesn't have a save or die in the category so the GM has no reason to hand out I:Weaken, all weaken does is "Reduce their armor by 50%" or "Reduce damage by 25%" good useful poo poo your GM won't hate you for. But we will get to this when I talk about combat and the status groups.
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Sep 29, 2018 04:26
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So they're trying to simulate a bunch of the mechanics from the video game directly, aren't they? Despite a video game having, you know, a computer to do all the crazy math stuff instantly.
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Sep 29, 2018 04:29
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Night10194 posted:So they're trying to simulate a bunch of the mechanics from the video game directly, aren't they? Despite a video game having, you know, a computer to do all the crazy math stuff instantly. Yep, that's the big thing about a lot of the FF trpgs (and a lot of video game-based tabletops in general) - fidelity to an experience in another medium is seen as the goal, not something to avoid at all costs. I hear one of the final fantasy ones was so bad that you needed some sort of IRC bot to play properly, but I couldn't tell you which one. I was thinking I'd do it, actually! I have a lot of fondness for the system still, even if I'd never really want to run it again.
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Sep 29, 2018 04:33
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yea FFD6 has problems but it actually does the job well. It'd be good for someone to do as kinda a counterpoint to Returners' absolute insanity
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Sep 29, 2018 04:43
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Well let's finish off the insanity of the experts so we can get to a new type of insanity, mages! FFRRPG Part 5: Expert jobs, part 2 Mediator Remember how I said chemist was the last good expert job? Mediator is almost good, almost. Level 1- Tame, This let's you pick a monster that died this turn and tame it(it's a mystify effect, status groups etc. doesn't work on notorious, boss and endboss mosnsters) it still gives full awards(surprisingly), and the monster gets to "live". Because you let it live you can summon it in battle to attack or out of battle to overcome any obstacle once, then it leaves. You can have one tamed monster, plus an additional 16, 31, 46, and 61. Level 10- Entrust, This let's you swap initiatives with someone else, ANYONE ELSE. If they don't have a turn you lose yours, if their initiative is lower you get to go again at their initiative. If used on someone charging this charge breaks and your new initiative is when they WOULD have gone. Yep, this is quicken and mess with enemies all at once, this is amazing. Level 19- Parley, Ejects an enemy at 25% or less hp, they are at 25% or less hp WHY? I use instant death on things with 100% hp. Level 28- Advice, you give the target critical up who cares no one is auto attacking at this level. Level 39- Intimidation, This increases their botch/auto miss range from 95+ to 75+ and removes their ability to quit. I'm noticing a pattern of incredibly worthless abilities. Level 46- Manipulate, loving FINALLY SOMETHING WORTHWHILE, it inflicts charm, it has no charge time, no limits. loving everything is going to get I:Mystify from here out. Level 55- Invite, This is like tame, ON CRACK. When used they immediately get up and fight on your side, and you get to keep your new pet monster buddy. Congrats you are the pokemon trainer, it's you. Now watch your gm head desk as every monster went from "Attack once for them maybe" to "Possible invitee". Level 64- Charge!, what could beat invite as a capstone? Well it sure ain't loving this, You pick 4 allies each of whom has a chance based on their hp% to make an attack action...Flurry this is not, considering your party members can both not attack(40% chance to attack at 76-100% hp) and then miss. I'll stick with entrust. Playable level- 10 This class has 4 abilities, Tame, Entrust, Manipulate and Invite. Ignore everything else. And it is an INCREDIBLY STRONG class with just those four abilities. I'm not going to call it good though, Tame and Invite are massive GM headaches as every monster has to be scrutinized by what you can do with them. And your main ability is "Skip my own turn to give an ally another" that's.....incredibly powerful but not exactly FUN as you don't really get to do anything. Also there's manipulate, which is well, it's a spammable 0 CT charm, nothing wrong with that. Mime Remember Entrust? Remember how good it was? That ability is better than your class. Level 1- Mimic, you copy the last ability used not by your party, used, and make it with the same target. You still have to pay MP or CT costs. Level 9- Mirror Mimic, You can now choose to target the user of the last ability used so you can ACTUALLY MIMIC ENEMY ATTACKS. Right we are stopping here, it's pretty loving obvious how Mimic and Mirror Mimic should have worked, Mimic targets party actions, Mirror Mimic copies enemy actions and let's you pick targets. But nope, can't do that, has to be the exact last action and you have to use MP or CT killing any utility you would have over entrust. This needed to be said. Level 17- Command Mimic, Pick an ally and take ONE ability from them, if it's spell casting you take one level of spells. Level 25- Memory Mimic, you can pick any action used this round. Level 33- Final Mimic, when dropped to 0 hp mimic the attack that killed you targeting your attacker. Level 41- Command Mimic II, You get two abilities or spell levels from command mimic. Level 49- Target Mimic, you can choose targets freely when using mimic. Level 56- Counter Mimic, whenever you are attacked you have a 30% chance to respond with the attack that hit you. Level 65- Job Mimic, COPY SOMEONES ENTIRE SKILL SET....up to lvl50, except spells of lvl7 or 8, blue magic of 100+mp, or summons of 150+mp. So yeah don't copy mages. Playable level- 49....I suppose gently caress mimes, mimes are awful, and I'm not kidding when I say "Entrust is better than your class" besides not needing all sorts of upgrades just to hit somone. MIMIC USES YOUR STATS NOT THEIRS, Yep that's right, you want to mimic a spell it's based on your mag. Mimes need ALL SIX ATTRIBUTES. What's more, what's worse, is their attribute caps? 9s across the board so their stats are bad for doing everything even at top levels AND their caps are lower. So Entrust further kicks your rear end by just using the target's stats. And you still need to loving pay MP/CT killing any of the coolness mimes have in the FF games. gently caress mimics, mimics are the EPITOME of "We only tested high level poo poo" the class doesn't come online until lvl50 and needs everyone else to have capped their attack stats to stat catching up, and is still very much a 5th wheel....and another class does it better at lvl10. Thief Oh the thief, what will we ever do with you. Nothing. Level 1- Steal, you make an expertise roll and depending how much you succeed by you steal the item in the appropriate slot, a crit ups the slot category by one. Shows over, class is done..... What you want me to tell you the rest? FINNNNEEEE. Level 8- Gil Snapper, you steal gil not with steal, but as a seperate action that eats your entire turn. Level 15- Catch, You are targeted by an attack that uses the thrown ability or ammo and you can negate it and add it to your inventory. I mean...What? WHAT? How often are enemies going to be using throw or ammo? Seriously? Level 22- Distract, For CT-8 give the target unaware, it's well....their turns are probably more valuable than yours. Level 29- Mug, for CT-10 you get to do 100% attack damage while stealing, yaaaaay. Level 36- Detect, You see someone's treasure table also when you steal from them you steal 2 items instead of one. Level 43- Steal heart, Remember manipulate? Remember how that had no CT? This does, still pretty good for the thief. Level 50- Countertheft, Any time you are hit by a physical melee attack use steal. Nothing to complain about beyond the hugggeeee complaint that goes at the end of this class. Level 57- Robber's Evidence, Deal 100+Expertise*2% damage, so assuming you are mithra and have max AGI. 250+Lvl% damage. Level 64- Footwork, +20 passive iniative. Playable Level: 64 The thief is another huge example of only testing high levels, furthermore it is deeply enmeshed in the idea that the player's are getting gil and item drops as real resources that they worry about and could get screwed by not enough item drops. Rather than "gil is kind of irrelevant, sometimes monsters have rare poo poo the thief yoinks". This really kind of shows why at 43, 57 and 64 they get these huge combat abilities that let them actually do something as the game approaches the "End game" and players now only get artifact/unique gear and those shouldn't be missable the thief has to change. Robber's evidence has one of the highest single target damage %s, and footwork guarantees the thief gets extreme initiative. Of course how much player's WILL care about the economy, was never really tested, or the simple fact the GM will probably provide gil and weapons in chests outside their "Balanced" Xp/Gil ratios. Also god knows no one ever picked thief in playtests, why would you, money didn't matter in those. WhitemageofDOOM fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Oct 3, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 05:50
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See if I wanted to do Final Fantasy tabletop I'd probably use 4E D&D and refluff the races and classes. I'd probably set it in FFXIV.
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Sep 29, 2018 06:19
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Nessus posted:See if I wanted to do Final Fantasy tabletop I'd probably use 4E D&D and refluff the races and classes. I'd probably set it in FFXIV. Yes but you are sane. Also D&D4e didn't exist at the time to be fair, and D&D was sort of soft banned from speaking of as "The game we don't talk about". Yeah that doesn't betray how worried they were about it, not at allllll.
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Sep 29, 2018 06:29
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Nessus posted:See if I wanted to do Final Fantasy tabletop I'd probably use 4E D&D and refluff the races and classes. I'd probably set it in FFXIV. Yeah, there's literally a grid-based tactical fantasy combat rpg with a ton of supplements already. It seems a bit silly for people to be reinventing 4e's wheel.
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Sep 29, 2018 06:37
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Night10194 posted:E: In general, alcohol is the fuel of the entire Old World, really. This is the real reason Vlad von Carstein was rejected as Emperor.
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Sep 29, 2018 06:52
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I still want to play a High Elf Bawd. Probably a wine smuggler. (when he's not putting the High in High Elf)
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Sep 29, 2018 06:55
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If you want an adventure about calendars, how about having the heroes hired by a brewery to endorse them and spread observance of that Second Breach festival from the Dwarves? Great way to boost flagging end-of-autumn sales. Toss in some passing elves and a dour witch hunter out to ban fun and you've got the parts for an amusing palette-cleanser between great tales of grimness. I also love the way you honour Ulric is to dare him to totally come and have a go if he thinks he's hard enough. Ulric is written decently well for a GRAAAAH VIOLENCE god.
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Sep 29, 2018 23:28
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Joe Slowboat posted:Sovcits however aren't pure empiricists, because they then add on elaborate 'loopholes' and belief in weird fictitious persons and huge government gold funds owed to everyone. Maybe the secret to generating charges is to actually enforce their worldview on a system of the state. Get a case dismissed due to the fringes of the flag. Somehow get an A4V form accepted and money paid out. Somehow, somewhere, make the whole elaborate rattletrap work just for an instant.
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Sep 29, 2018 23:34
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Loxbourne posted:Maybe the secret to generating charges is to actually enforce their worldview on a system of the state. Get a case dismissed due to the fringes of the flag. Somehow get an A4V form accepted and money paid out. Somehow, somewhere, make the whole elaborate rattletrap work just for an instant.
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Sep 29, 2018 23:41
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