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Reversal edge will probably shake out to not be a big deal competitively in the long run. It seems to be kind of a bandaid mechanic to help newer players manage their defense and understand the dynamics between A, B and K moves. I wish there was a little less slowdown during the clash, especially since the window for inputting your choice during RE is pretty tight. I also wish critical edge cutscenes were universally about half as long. Game is sick though. Really excited for the full version.
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Sep 29, 2018 18:27
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i kinda agree that reversal edge seems really unnecessary but at the same time i'm still not over the novelty of how cool some of the moves you get out of it look
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Sep 29, 2018 19:00
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Sade posted:Reversal edge will probably shake out to not be a big deal competitively in the long run. It seems to be kind of a bandaid mechanic to help newer players manage their defense and understand the dynamics between A, B and K moves. its this. soul calibur is historically a fighting game with a shitload of people who are in that nebulous zone of not being super casual party game players but also maybe not quite getting how to properly improve beyond "do what works against my friends". the fact that reversal edge is just how the game already works anyway is the point, it slaps them in the face with the mechanics of the game in a way that helps some people maybe get that they dont need the game to start a countdown before they can sidestep B attacks
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Sep 29, 2018 19:02
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I wish I understood more of what was happening beyond the few moves I figured out during playing and hitting buttons hoping the thing I did works in Soul Calibur 6. A simple splash screen showing the basic mechanics during the loading screen would have been nice. Night Blade fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Sep 29, 2018 |
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Sep 29, 2018 19:09
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it's good when a fighting game has features that make it more accessible, especially when they are features existing outside of the actual matches. when accessibility features designed to assist and teach new players are built into a game's mechanics that's a different thing all together though. is it really worth adding a mechanic that detracts from the game on the whole worth attracting new players or maintaining bad players for a month before they fall off? I feel like players that can't learn the simple rps with a/b/k unless it's shoved down their throat in a slomo cinematic just aren't worth catering to.
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Sep 29, 2018 19:12
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No game should get worse the better you are at it.
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Sep 29, 2018 19:14
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:No game should get worse the better you are at it. a lot of beloved fgs are like this 3s and garou come to mind
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Sep 29, 2018 19:15
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General Morden posted:a lot of beloved fgs are like this and soul series has mystics just the same as those games for similar reasons
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Sep 29, 2018 19:18
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whats wrong with garou? ive neve rplayed it
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Sep 29, 2018 19:54
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yo mamma a Horus posted:whats wrong with garou? ive neve rplayed it it becomes absolutely miserable, this I wish I could articulate, but I can mention Kevin loops
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Sep 29, 2018 20:00
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At lower levels the characters are relatively balanced and fun. High level is Kevin loops and feint cancelling everything forever. I was a Freeman main 
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Sep 29, 2018 20:04
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yo mamma a Horus posted:whats wrong with garou? ive neve rplayed it two things that come to mind: just defend (basically parrying but if you mess up the timing you just block anyway & it heals you) into a super with 1 or even 0 frame startup to punish everything combined with blockstrings that are blazblue tier due to feint canceling which makes the game really frustrating both for the attacking player and the defending one
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Sep 29, 2018 20:09
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i have no idea who to pick in unist lmao
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Sep 29, 2018 20:13
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I dunno, I feel like some assumptions are being made that aren't necessarily true. Ie: that Reversal Edge is purely a mechanic aimed at unskilled players. I think it has applications for skilled play as well, just in different ways (generally what happens before the RE, instead of during the animation). I feel like it just pushes the game in a more "hard read" direction which I could understand being frustrating for some people who want more purity in terms of mechanical skill being the dominant factor. Isn't SC just not that game though? It's always been pretty mechanically simple. I don't know that there's some platonic ideal of fighting games, it kind of feels like a different strokes for different folks situation.
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Sep 29, 2018 20:16
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also garou has just defend that's easy and heals you, and there's free alpha counters you can do off the stun from just defend. garou is an absolute chore to play
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Sep 29, 2018 20:16
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3S is weird in that it takes a scrub-tier revelation to crack it’s highest level of infinite bullshit tho. “Parries are cool. Sometimes I’ll just tap forward and see if I get them.” “Huh, I see. I’ll use parries to catch people when they do big stuff I can see and catch.” “Hmm, my opponent isn’t doing big flashy poo poo raw anymore, but these block strings they’re doing look the same. Maybe...” “You know, I can’t seem to catch a real read anymore, but I never seem to get punished for going for parries...” “I’m overthinking it. Imma just randomly tap forward or down sometimes in neutral and in the off chance my opponent throws something into it, I’ll blow them up for 40%.” And then parries became the enemy.
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Sep 29, 2018 20:17
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Poniard posted:i have no idea who to pick in unist lmao Pick Whip Girl.
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Sep 29, 2018 20:19
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General Morden posted:a lot of beloved fgs are like this i mean 3S is the game i learned to actually understand fgs in, but there's a reason i don't play it any more not that i ever really got good at it but i got good enough to see what good looked like
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Sep 29, 2018 20:22
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AttackBacon posted:... I feel like it just pushes the game in a more "hard read" direction which I could understand being frustrating for some people who want more purity in terms of mechanical skill being the dominant factor. Isn't SC just not that game though? It's always been pretty mechanically simple. I don't know that there's some platonic ideal of fighting games, it kind of feels like a different strokes for different folks situation. hard read situations cause by RE break up the flow of the game. reads are already being made in any given match. reversal edge is basically the core attack rps in the game with the nuance of movement and spacing removed... its just reductive. you're right though, it is a different strokes thing. some people really like things like wager in injustice or the rps dragon rush thing from the old dbz games or RE from SC6. i don't though
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Sep 29, 2018 20:27
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If only they had the balls to patch mechanics out of a game. I think Reversal Edge reception has been negative overall by everyone including casuals, but what sucks is that they seem to rely on it a lot without knowing how to escape or deal with it, making the game look bad. My only hope is that as people get better and learn stuff it just doesn't happen as often. Can't try the game cause no console, but otherwise gameplay seems great.
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Sep 29, 2018 20:44
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The worst part about reversal edge is that B+G is no longer throw
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Sep 29, 2018 20:47
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Zand posted:hard read situations cause by RE break up the flow of the game. reads are already being made in any given match.reversal edge is basically the core attack rps in the game with the nuance of movement and spacing removed... its just reductive.. (We generally agree it's all subjective I'm just clarifying one part) Do you mean the cutscene or the very fact of RE itself? I agree that once you are in the cutscene it's a distillation down to pure mindgames, but before that I think it fits very well into the existing system. It's a vertical that is easily stepped and it gets beat by guard breaks just like a GI. I think the counter is to that is "well GI and verticals already exist" which is fair, but then we get back into subjective territory (ie: do the unique aspects and visual "cool factor" of RE merit the addition, does it slow down the game too much, etc). Changing the topic slightly, I think complexity for the sake of spectacle has some intrinsic merit, especially in something that has become such a spectator activity. For instance, I was watching Aris' stream yesterday and he RE'd Ivy's super and everyone was like OOOHHH drat even though it was just holding a button, it was visually super cool. Same deal with doing forward evades under horizontals during the cutscene and stuff like that. I feel like part of where RE comes from is Namco going "dang people loving love the slowmo in Tekken, how can we expand on that" and that's why it's such a visual spectacle. I think feeling that that takes away from the purity of the game is probably fair but for me it's worth it, particularly since I enjoy the actual gameplay of it as well.
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Sep 29, 2018 20:47
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I never played Yatagarasu, but didn't they stick their parry on a button so it required more commitment than tapping forward? Presumably nobody plays it for a reason so maybe that didn't fix anything or it was just bad for other reasons.
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Sep 29, 2018 20:49
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Big Scary Owl posted:If only they had the balls to patch mechanics out of a game. I think Reversal Edge reception has been negative overall by everyone including casuals, but what sucks is that they seem to rely on it a lot without knowing how to escape or deal with it, making the game look bad. My only hope is that as people get better and learn stuff it just doesn't happen as often. Can't try the game cause no console, but otherwise gameplay seems great. Every person I played who was actually experienced, all had the good taste to never throw out a Reversal Edge, so it's not really something to get upset about. Scrubs would spam it on me and I would hit Kick and beat them every. Single. Time. I played this one guy with like 3000 points, and his crowns at the bottom of the matchmaking screen showed he won 22 games in a row. He beat me 3-0 and teabagged me all three times, then I rematched him and got up on him 2-0 and was Voldo teabagging him back. I choked after that and lost but after the matches he messaged me on PSN to say good games. Not sure why the only person to teabag me would also be the only person to do that afterwards but maybe he was impressed I almost ended his streak. Or maybe he was trying to rub it in. Anyway, hasn't some sperg done a full movelist for the network test yet? The reveal trailer for Voldo shows he can do the Superwyrm (aka landfish) move, but I absolutely could not get into that stance with all his traditional transitions into it.
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Sep 29, 2018 20:51
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Zero VGS posted:Anyway, hasn't some sperg done a full movelist Don't be like this
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Sep 29, 2018 20:56
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Night Blade posted:I wish I understood more of what was happening beyond the few moves I figured out during playing and hitting buttons hoping the thing I did works in Soul Calibur 6. Like this? https://imgur.com/a/Ljq5aZJ
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Sep 29, 2018 21:00
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:i mean 3S is the game i learned to actually understand fgs in, but there's a reason i don't play it any more aren't you the sg dude who views that game as like masterclass fg design because i truly believe that fg is a chore to play once you actually get good at it
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Sep 29, 2018 21:01
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General Morden posted:aren't you the sg dude who views that game as like masterclass fg design He's not, and even if he was, I'll also step up to bat for SG and defend it. Like yeah, if you don't like resets, you aren't going to like SG, because it's totally reset city, but the thing about getting good in SG is that you'll start to see the resets coming, and can react accordingly. Like, you can pull off some really dirty poo poo in that game, but generally you'll always have an option to get out of the mix.
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Sep 29, 2018 21:06
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inthesto posted:The worst part about reversal edge is that B+G is no longer throw the new throws are so hard to get used to
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Sep 29, 2018 21:06
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General Morden posted:aren't you the sg dude who views that game as like masterclass fg design I enjoy Skullgirls a lot, and I think it's one of the best modern fighting games, but the netcode, quality of life features, and community are a much bigger part of why I decided to concentrate on it than 100% endorsement of its gameplay. In particular I'd much rather play Melty Blood if it weren't such a gigantic pain in the rear end to do so.
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Sep 29, 2018 21:10
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General Morden posted:aren't you the sg dude who views that game as like masterclass fg design How dare you mixup someone for Broken Loose.
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Sep 29, 2018 21:13
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chumbler posted:I never played Yatagarasu, but didn't they stick their parry on a button so it required more commitment than tapping forward? Presumably nobody plays it for a reason so maybe that didn't fix anything or it was just bad for other reasons. Akatsuki Blitzkampf is also known for having a parry on its buttons Akatsuki even has this parry as his Force Function in UNIST!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Sep 29, 2018 21:15
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Groh is so disgustingly anime. I love it.
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Sep 29, 2018 21:16
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Thanks!
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Sep 29, 2018 21:17
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5 paragraph long explanation of undizzy mechanic
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Sep 29, 2018 21:18
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and notably both Blitzkampf and UNIST kick rear end so maybe there's something to this
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Sep 29, 2018 21:21
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AttackBacon posted:
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Sep 29, 2018 21:24
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NuclearPotato posted:He's not, and even if he was, I'll also step up to bat for SG and defend it. Like yeah, if you don't like resets, you aren't going to like SG, because it's totally reset city, but the thing about getting good in SG is that you'll start to see the resets coming, and can react accordingly. Like, you can pull off some really dirty poo poo in that game, but generally you'll always have an option to get out of the mix. the resets aren't even the problem, that part's actually fun the problem is there's a lot of poo poo you can do in SG that is way too safe for how advantageous it is. there are characters (and teams) that are high risk / high reward but they're the exception rather than the norm
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Sep 29, 2018 21:27
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General Morden posted:5 paragraph long explanation of undizzy mechanic Hits after a certain point in a combo grant undizzy. If undizzy gets high enough, you can burst out of an opponent's combo. Sometimes people will make a combo that will trigger a burst intentionally, so that they can punish afterwards and reset the combo. There, I've described everything important about undizzy in less than a paragraph. Just say you don't like the game or Mike Z or whatever, nobody cares. Tuxedo Catfish posted:the resets aren't even the problem, that part's actually fun This is a fair point, yeah. It doesn't bug me too much, but that's just a personal thing on my part.
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Sep 29, 2018 21:34
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Groh says "I must investigate your hairdo" when he reversal edge's Maxi, which clearly demonstrates that reversal edge is the most important mechanic in fighting game history. Zand posted:the ooh drat lasts what, like 5 seconds? since I don't give a poo poo about spectators and care about mechanics I see no value in spectacle for the purpose of spectacle. if I play a game I'm going to be playing it for long after the original coolness of somethings animation is dead. spectators are worth catering to less than pretty much anyone else. Sure, I agree to an extent, when talking about people that are going to get invested in the game. But to get people in the door I think it has value, and personally if given two games of equal mechanical merit, I'll take the cooler looking one every time. Wouldn't anyone? Although obviously "cooler looking" is insanely subjective. That was me kind of musing off in a different direction though, what did you think about the first bit of what I said (trying to figure if you meant RE in it's totality or just the cutscene portion)?
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Sep 29, 2018 21:43
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