awful programming: feature flags and suffering

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > awful programming: feature flags and suffering

«‹›1115 »

CPColin: Sep 9, 2003; Big ol' smile.

akadajet posted:

articles on ios dev are always inspiring

"awful IDE software" seems triple-redundant

# ? Sep 30, 2018 19:46

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 16:30

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

CPColin posted:

"awful IDE software" seems triple-redundant

visual studio is the only good ide i've ever used. why aren't more ides like that?

# ? Sep 30, 2018 19:47

GenJoe: Sep 15, 2010; Rehabilitated?

That's just a bullshit word.

akadajet posted:

articles on ios dev are always inspiring

xcode is good

# ? Sep 30, 2018 19:52

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

GenJoe posted:

xcode is good

# ? Sep 30, 2018 19:53

CPColin: Sep 9, 2003; Big ol' smile.

akadajet posted:

visual studio is the only good ide i've ever used. why aren't more ides like that?

We don't need more stupid and bad IDE's.

# ? Sep 30, 2018 19:55

carry on then: Jul 10, 2010; by VideoGames
(and can't post for 10 years!)

akadajet posted:

articles on ios dev are always inspiring

i bet this guy writes terrible code

# ? Sep 30, 2018 20:43

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

carry on then posted:

i bet this guy writes terrible code

should I reach out and ask him to post in yospos?

# ? Sep 30, 2018 20:48

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

AggressivelyStupid posted:

JavaScript was a mistake

Eich should�ve just embedded Scheme48 and called it a day

sure we�d be stuck at R4RS but it�d still be a far, far better world

# ? Sep 30, 2018 21:05

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

akadajet posted:

articles on ios dev are always inspiring

I hate this attitude

we�ve always dogfooded, during bring-up of the huge change that was Xcode 4, we explicitly switched to it at the earliest possible point

# ? Sep 30, 2018 21:10

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

eschaton posted:

I hate this attitude

we�ve always dogfooded, during bring-up of the huge change that was Xcode 4, we explicitly switched to it at the earliest possible point

im out of the loop on this, can you explain what you mean?

# ? Sep 30, 2018 21:43

Zlodo: Nov 25, 2006

cinci zoo sniper posted:

im out of the loop on this, can you explain what you mean?

dogfooding = using your own software
he means the xcode team is using xcode and switched to xcode 4 as soon as it became functional enough

Zlodo fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Sep 30, 2018

# ? Sep 30, 2018 21:51

mystes: May 31, 2006

Didn't he say they were literally not allowed to use other companies' IDEs anyway? So I don't think they have much choice about dogfooding unless they have a secret less lovely internal IDE.

# ? Sep 30, 2018 21:56

Doom Mathematic: Sep 2, 2008

It's not about free choice, it's about sharing/understanding their users' pain points.

# ? Sep 30, 2018 22:12

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

mystes posted:

Didn't he say they were literally not allowed to use other companies' IDEs anyway? So I don't think they have much choice about dogfooding unless they have a secret less lovely internal IDE.

I mean there is a third option: no ide

literally saw someone internally arguing in favor of writing code in loving notepad++ the other day. thank god they weren�t working on anything I�ll ever have to touch

# ? Sep 30, 2018 22:13

Zlodo: Nov 25, 2006

actually I misread he didn't specifically said the xcode team but his point was that they use xcode internally at apple, which makes sense anyway
why would you invest money in building dev tools and not use them yourself

# ? Sep 30, 2018 22:13

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Zlodo posted:

dogfooding = using your own software
he means the xcode team is using xcode and switched to xcode 4 as soon as it became functional enough

ah, makes sense now. cheers

# ? Sep 30, 2018 22:18

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

Doom Mathematic posted:

It's not about free choice, it's about sharing/understanding their users' pain points.

which is the point of the original statement. there are a lot of weird pain points when using xcode. symbols unable to be resolved while debugging, the awkwardness of using interface builder, the hoops you have to jump to submit an app to the app store, the random crashes, slow builds, unwanted text at the top of every new file, etc...

akadajet fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Sep 30, 2018

# ? Sep 30, 2018 22:21

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

mystes posted:

Didn't he say they were literally not allowed to use other companies' IDEs anyway? So I don't think they have much choice about dogfooding unless they have a secret less lovely internal IDE.

that�s not the case, developers under my SVP at least have extremely broad leeway in terms of personal tools as long as their work gets done

of course individual groups/teams/managers may set their own rules

# ? Sep 30, 2018 22:29

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Zlodo posted:

actually I misread he didn't specifically said the xcode team but his point was that they use xcode internally at apple, which makes sense anyway
why would you invest money in building dev tools and not use them yourself

I was referring to both (one guess as to what I�ve worked on for a long time)

# ? Sep 30, 2018 22:30

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

Zlodo posted:

why would you invest money in building dev tools and not use them yourself

microsoft does this all of the time. visual source safe is my favorite one of these

# ? Sep 30, 2018 22:31

redleader: Aug 18, 2005; Engage according to operational parameters

akadajet posted:

if all you're doing as a dev is "learning frameworks", then you aren't accomplishing anything useful.

agreed, but in that case you're likely a front end dev so wouldn't be accomplishing anything useful anyway

# ? Sep 30, 2018 22:52

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

redleader posted:

agreed, but in that case you're likely a front end dev so wouldn't be accomplishing anything useful anyway

There's plenty of backend devs that love love love them some frameworks. EntityFramework, Django, RoR (or any of the MVC frameworks), NHibernate, etc. etc. etc.

# ? Oct 1, 2018 15:45

Skyl3lazer: Aug 27, 2007; [Dooting Stealthily]

akadajet posted:

visual studio is the only good ide i've ever used. why aren't more ides like that?

It took like 12 years for VS to be good though so it's not a great example. The difference between VS2007 and VS2017 is staggering

# ? Oct 1, 2018 16:22

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

first class git support, only in vs2027

# ? Oct 1, 2018 16:25

Zlodo: Nov 25, 2006

Skyl3lazer posted:

It took like 12 years for VS to be good though so it's not a great example. The difference between VS2007 and VS2017 is staggering

also it's still not good, in fact its getting worse with every major release

current vs status: today when I double click an entry in the call stack it opens an editor for that file as a tab on top of the call stack instead of where other editors are

it almost died on me earlier when unfolding a pretty simple class in the watch view

also had to kill and restart it after regenerating the project from cmake and it hung but that's part of my daily routine at this point

oh also the linker ooms randomly and crashes if a symbol is missing

I enjoy a better development experience at home in Linux with vs code, clang and a shoddy lldb vscode extension

# ? Oct 1, 2018 16:47

champagne posting: Apr 5, 2006; YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

Skyl3lazer posted:

It took like 12 years for VS to be good though so it's not a great example. The difference between VS2007 and VS2017 is staggering

it's also really only good in windows. VS for mac is weird and features and documentation are all over the place.

# ? Oct 1, 2018 16:51

mystes: May 31, 2006

Boiled Water posted:

it's also really only good in windows. VS for mac is weird and features and documentation are all over the place.

Isn't "VS for mac" just a rebranded version of Xamarin Studio? It's not really "visual studio" any more than vscode is.

# ? Oct 1, 2018 17:01

Star War Sex Parrot: Oct 2, 2003

Zlodo posted:

also had to kill and restart it after regenerating the project from cmake and it hung but that's part of my daily routine at this point

I enjoy a better development experience at home in Linux with vs code, clang and a shoddy lldb vscode extension

for cmake-based projects I find CLion pretty good these days. last year's releases were a bit poo poo with their memory consumption and GC stalls on large projects, but the 2018 releases have been much better.

the lldb and gdb integration is nice

# ? Oct 1, 2018 17:09

raminasi: Jan 25, 2005; a last drink with no ice

wait are the �vs is good� �vs is ok at best� arguments had between c#/c++ devs? that would make a lot of sense

# ? Oct 1, 2018 17:11

Shaggar: Apr 26, 2006

probably. I only do c# in vs so I cant comment on the c++ tooling.

# ? Oct 1, 2018 17:12

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

Finster Dexter posted:

There's plenty of backend devs that love love love them some frameworks. EntityFramework, Django, RoR (or any of the MVC frameworks), NHibernate, etc. etc. etc.

you forgot spring lol

# ? Oct 1, 2018 17:15

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

raminasi posted:

wait are the �vs is good� �vs is ok at best� arguments had between c#/c++ devs? that would make a lot of sense

yeah, I do c# and visual studio is really amazing for that.

# ? Oct 1, 2018 17:16

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

akadajet posted:

you forgot spring lol

java frameworks...lmbo

# ? Oct 1, 2018 17:17

GenJoe: Sep 15, 2010; Rehabilitated?

That's just a bullshit word.

Finster Dexter posted:

There's plenty of backend devs that love love love them some frameworks. EntityFramework, Django, RoR (or any of the MVC frameworks), NHibernate, etc. etc. etc.

why is this a bad thing

# ? Oct 1, 2018 17:31

GenJoe: Sep 15, 2010; Rehabilitated?

That's just a bullshit word.

i love framework. framework let me build big code all by myself

# ? Oct 1, 2018 17:33

akadajet: Sep 14, 2003

GenJoe posted:

i love framework. framework let me build big code all by myself

you have to be careful with all that power

# ? Oct 1, 2018 17:34

Neslepaks: Sep 3, 2003

with great power comes great separation of responsibilities

# ? Oct 1, 2018 18:02

Nomnom Cookie: Aug 30, 2009

also spending an entire day looking at JVM class loading logs to figure out why the loving entity classes aren't getting woven

# ? Oct 1, 2018 18:11

fritz: Jul 26, 2003

Neslepaks posted:

with great power comes great separation of responsibilities

# ? Oct 1, 2018 18:30

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 16:30

AggressivelyStupid: Jan 9, 2012

ctps:

code:


#define MAX1(a, b) (a < b) ? (b) : (a) 
.
.
.
.
#define MAX13(a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n) (MAX12(a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m) < n) ? (l) : MAX12(a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m)

i'm going to track down whoever the gently caress did this and beat them mercilessly with a goddamn sock full of quarters

please raise bail money

# ? Oct 1, 2018 18:56

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > awful programming: feature flags and suffering

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