Asiina posted:

I have awakened!

There are many posts. Most excellent.

I will read the many posts.

Max posted:

Anyway, this post caught my eye because I cannot figure out why they would bring up hypothetically be cased instead unless they had a guilty mindset, and would like IcePheonix to expand on this.

hambeet posted:

everyone is too well behaved on this wagon, i'm pretty impressed actually. keep it up team!

Asiina posted:

Also can we agree that chain-lynches are not actually scummy because like there's no reason that they are. Looking at someone's post and going "if this happens, I'm going to be suspicious of you" is a totally normal and town thing to say. Especially because if you're town there's always a chance you die at night, so why not put your opinions out there now. It's not like you're locking yourself into a vote by saying that. That never actually happens.

Asiina posted:

As for Bif and BK, I definitely think Bif comes off looking better. Maybe it's because I know she's right about my motivations, but I don't really see the idea that she's being unclear in any way. She doesn't think it's a strong enough case to vote on right now, but thinks I'm townie for making it. She's vote it at the end of the day if she needed to, but hopefully something better will come along.

Also can we agree that chain-lynches are not actually scummy because like there's no reason that they are. Looking at someone's post and going "if this happens, I'm going to be suspicious of you" is a totally normal and town thing to say. Especially because if you're town there's always a chance you die at night, so why not put your opinions out there now. It's not like you're locking yourself into a vote by saying that. That never actually happens.

Anyway, as for BK, I agree with MMT and it really seems like BK went into this going I WILL CASE SOMEONE, picked Bif, and came up with the reasons afterwards. I think the way he appears to be going after all of it as scummy is what gets me. Like Gaspy broke down Bif's post and went "these are parts I agree with, these are parts I disagree with" which feels townie because he's not approaching the post with his mind already made up. BK seems to decide everything Bif does is more evidence that she's scum. That always has the hallmarks of a fake case to me, since even scum are going to make some good sounding points sometimes.

I'd vote BK.

Asphyxious posted:

Yes to all of this. I think people jump at chain lynches when they’re not really there, in exactly the way you’re suggesting. Saying “if x happens I’ll be suspicious of x-person” isn’t scummy and writing it off as setting up a chain lynch is just kinda shutting down conversation.

hambeet posted:

chain lynches aren't scummy, they're just bad logic sometimes

Asphyxious posted:

It’s scummy if you just tunnel and don’t assess new information, though. Like if you said something like my above example day 1, then stick to it ignoring night 1 and day 2, that’s dodgy.

hambeet posted:

to the bold part, but to reiterate what i said earlier, bif has kinda done the exact same thing back to bk. so while i was 'meh' on the whole thing (because you have to start somewhere) bif's last couple of posts on it made me tad less comfortable with bif at this here campfire ya see.

hambeet posted:

No soluslunes yet?

Max posted:

Anyway, this post caught my eye because I cannot figure out why they would bring up hypothetically be cased instead unless they had a guilty mindset, and would like IcePheonix to expand on this.

Asphyxious posted:

We were having such a chill time

Bifauxnen posted:

things are still chill imo, can't be unchill while looking at that many thunk faces

Bifauxnen posted:

got enough reasons there, bud?

I like Asiina sussing this out and might vote TMM later, but if it turns out to be wrong this is where I'd look first for scum trying to get things rolling.

BottleKnight posted:

##vote bif

This reads to me as you determining whether or not to bandwagon, and deciding you might join the bandwagon later. Additionally, it’s weird to phrase it as Asiina “sussing out” when she’s made it clear the case is worth a vote. Additionally, setting up your basically-a-chain-Lynch is an intense hedge. I come away from this post having no idea what you think about TMM.

SolusLunes posted:

(also we brought in a pair of new fosters yesterday, which is why I had no time for mafs)

(they were in a barn fire yesterday morning, momma cat got three of the five kittens out, the other two were in the barn during the fire. The male kitten laid over his sister to protect her from the fire, and he's a bit of a crispy critter. No actual burns, but his fur is all singed, sometimes a bit down to the skin, and his whiskers/eyebrows are burnt off. But his sister's unscathed!)

BottleKnight posted:

I legitimately still don't know what you think of TMM! It sounds like you have a pretty towny read on him but would still be comfortable voting for him if it came to that?? like, you say you find him unlikely to be scum, but you find asiina towny because you find her case genuine. so then... maybe both of them could be town? but still, the TMM vote is "good enough" for D1?? I just don't get it!

Bifauxnen posted:

you just described it perfectly so why are you acting so loving confused

Bifauxnen posted:

yeah well you read bad

I think Asiina sounds like she's "sussing out" what she thinks of TMM, which implies that despite being sure she wants to vote him, she does not in fact actually know his alignment. This looks townie of her, regardless of whether it ends up right or wrong.

I'm not convinced yet that it's worth a vote yet myself. While I see why TMM reads as weird to her, I also find it a bit unlikely that a scum would come out swinging that fast with such blatant gambler's fallacy nonsense to make themselves look that silly. If nothing else comes up though, it'd certainly be good enough for D1.

And if that is what happens, and it turns out TMM is town, I think that vote of IP's does sound a bit overwrought, like scum trying to get a bandwagom rolling. The "chain lunch" you are assuming for me would depend on a lot of factors between now and then: the TMM lunch happening, him being town, IP not sounding any townier by then, nothing else grabbing me more by then, etc. I would certainly want to NOT pursue this further if he comes up scum.

But nice try.

oh and you just keep on going for a few more posts, don't you.

yeah this is bad.

##vote BK

Bifauxnen posted:

btw if anyone doesn't know what an Australianism like "sussing out" means, it's ok to admit it and ask for a translation jsyk

Bifauxnen posted:

also lol at the idea of me giving a poo poo about clean hands

Bifauxnen posted:

it feels like scum bullshit, like he's already made up his mind he's going to read everything in the most unfavourable way possible to create a case, and transform a note for later into a whole narrative about chain lunches.

Bifauxnen posted:

I don't see what's hard to follow

BK wants to know what I thought about TMM, now I have told him. I like Asiina's effort to case him, but don't agree with the case yet. IP's vote sounds a bit much, like he's trying to overexplain why he's joining in. But hey, for all I know IP just agrees with Asiina in a legit way, and TMM could even be scum. So I sure don't feel like voting IP yet either.

But if TMM got lunched off this and flipped town, that IP post would be where I start looking back. Not "IP is definite scum now, chain lunch time", it is something I would want to remember to look back at and assess to see if he looks the scummiest out of whoever voted him. A lot of other more substantial things could come up by the end of D1 too, that might take precedence!

So when I said "this is where I'd look first for scum" I meant precisely and exactly what I actually said. It is a note to self, or for others to notice on their rereads if I am gone on D2.

TMMadman posted:

And from that point, bif seems to turn it more into a conversation about semantics than about alignment calls.

TMMadman posted:

Now come on, who is seriously going to look at that Bif post and blame BK for putting dropping a vote there?

TMMadman posted:

I'm about to head out to work, so I'll see if people can spot the problem with that bif post.

TMMadman posted:

I'm about to head out to work, so I'll see if people can spot the problem with that bif post.

hambeet posted:

IcePhoenix posted:

o before e

Anyways, I'm just sick of people deciding my votes ping them on day one. It's always "IcePhoenix seems like they're overjustifying maybe scum??? " and then I just vote with a short justification and it's "IcePhoenix is clearly trying to start a bandwagon, scum???? :thunk" and then if I'm out of thread and see a case that's good and agree with it and vote on it it's "Oh is IcePhoenix bussing? SCUM????????!??!!??!?!?!?! " and I just don't know what you assholes want from me anymore, and it's really annoying because I would just like to play the whole mafia game instead of constantly defending myself on day one which inevitably carries over to the next days because now I'm a target.

TMMadman posted:

Alright then, tell me where in those posts that Bif told BK what she thinks of me?

Bifauxnen posted:

I'm not convinced yet that it's worth a vote yet myself. While I see why TMM reads as weird to her, I also find it a bit unlikely that a scum would come out swinging that fast with such blatant gambler's fallacy nonsense to make themselves look that silly. If nothing else comes up though, it'd certainly be good enough for D1.