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Anybody with that much money is a piece of poo poo, guaranteed
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Oct 2, 2018 21:55
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What about Tim Allen? Not that I've paid much attention to him for years, but he never seemed too crazy conservative to me.
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Oct 2, 2018 23:22
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Mu Zeta posted:Why aren't there like normal conservative in Hollywood. It's never "oh yeah I believe in small government and maybe we can reduce the number of abortions through these policies." Instead it's always full on crazy batshit people like Adam Baldwin. There probably are. They just likely keep their opinions closer to the vest and therefore don't get as much attention as the crazier types. None of the John Wayne poo poo surprises me at all. He's a blueprint for a lot of conservative ideology and is worshipped by most CHUDS I know as what it means to be all-american. the older ones anyway. 1000 Brown M and Ms posted:What about Tim Allen? Not that I've paid much attention to him for years, but he never seemed too crazy conservative to me. I hope you're kidding.
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Oct 2, 2018 23:30
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1000 Brown M and Ms posted:What about Tim Allen? Not that I've paid much attention to him for years, but he never seemed too crazy conservative to me. I think he just never talked that much about what he believed in, then he made Last Man Standing which is a sitcom where the premise seems to be "Tim Allen triggers the liberals" and now I think he's all-in for Trump these days.
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Oct 2, 2018 23:31
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Tim Allen once compared being a Conservative in Hollywood to being a Jew in Nazi Germany. So, y'know, don't give him too much credit.
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Oct 2, 2018 23:33
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hard counter posted:john wayne's pretty weird yeah, on the one hand he had a pretty optimistic view of what westerns should be - regular folk facing frontier adversity together and overcoming their obstacles with the spirits of co-operation and peace to eventually build a society - and he felt so strongly about it he vomited in his mouth when he saw high noon and called it the most unamerican thing he'd ever seen hard counter posted:i swear to goodness i can only imagine what john wayne would have been like in the age of twitter
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Oct 2, 2018 23:46
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Tim Allen was on Conan not long ago and was joking about "safe spaces" and other conservative talking points. You could feel the tension of Conan hating his obligation to interview him as he and the audience just awkwardly laughed along.
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Oct 2, 2018 23:51
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One of the snags is that you used to be able to be a not crazy conservative. You could be one of the "I like small government but can we tone down the racism?" ones and not be shunned. Now if you aren't a literal misogynistic white nationalist they throw you to the curb for not being conservative enough. Considering how hideous the GOP platform is these days it's no wonder that so many people want American conservatism to shut up and go away. They're fascists at this point.
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Oct 3, 2018 00:12
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ToxicSlurpee posted:One of the snags is that you used to be able to be a not crazy conservative. You could be one of the "I like small government but can we tone down the racism?" ones and not be shunned. Now if you aren't a literal misogynistic white nationalist they throw you to the curb for not being conservative enough. I think it's trickier than that, based on my admittedly limited understand of American politics. The principle of small government is one thing but, at least for the past 50 years or so, I think it's difficult to separate it from racism, because the modern American conservative movement really traces back to Barry Goldwater's presidential campaign in 1964 in which he ran on a "small government" platform, the central plank of which was pledging to abolish the Johnson administration's civil rights legislation because it was an abuse of federal power.
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Oct 3, 2018 00:26
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Wheat Loaf posted:I think it's trickier than that, based on my admittedly limited understand of American politics. The principle of small government is one thing but, at least for the past 50 years or so, I think it's difficult to separate it from racism, because the modern American conservative movement really traces back to Barry Goldwater's presidential campaign in 1964 in which he ran on a "small government" platform, the central plank of which was pledging to abolish the Johnson administration's civil rights legislation because it was an abuse of federal power. Yes I know it's more complex but that strategy is actually why. Yeah racism has always been part of the American right but there was still room for people who believed in non government solutions. The strategy was to fight a thousand battles on a thousand fronts at all times. Appealing to racists was just one. Abortion was another big one as was appealing to greedy fuckers who didn't hate all the brown people but hated taxes. There was room for traditionalists who weren't racists or those who just had various conservative beliefs. There was dog whistling but nobody tossed you out if you didn't hate Mexicans enough. Now the dog whistles are fog horns and white male supremacy is a major part of the platform in a pretty blatant way.
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Oct 3, 2018 00:32
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Wheat Loaf posted:I think he just never talked that much about what he believed in, then he made Last Man Standing which is a sitcom where the premise seems to be "Tim Allen triggers the liberals" and now I think he's all-in for Trump these days. Fair enough. That sucks, I loved Home Improvement and Galaxy Quest.
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Oct 3, 2018 00:33
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Yes I know it's more complex but that strategy is actually why. Yeah racism has always been part of the American right but there was still room for people who believed in non government solutions. The strategy was to fight a thousand battles on a thousand fronts at all times. Appealing to racists was just one. Abortion was another big one as was appealing to greedy fuckers who didn't hate all the brown people but hated taxes. There was room for traditionalists who weren't racists or those who just had various conservative beliefs. There was dog whistling but nobody tossed you out if you didn't hate Mexicans enough. Somewhere along the way they realized that nobody actually gives a poo poo about theory of governance, so they pretty much dropped it Conservatives will occasionally pay lip service to the ideal of small government but they love regulation and government spending, they just want it to be in the right places. e.g. in purple states conservative legislators will simultaneously cry about federal overreach while overruling any progressive policies that local city governments try to enact.
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Oct 3, 2018 00:37
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Abortion was another big one as was appealing to greedy fuckers who didn't hate all the brown people but hated taxes. I remember reading about about this in a university class about fundamentalism; abortion is interesting because it was almost a non-issue in politics until some point in the early 70s when the government was talking about taxing some of those big Christian universities or something like that, and abortion was basically picked as a useful issue they could use to pursue the government over to take the heat off.
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Oct 3, 2018 00:38
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1000 Brown M and Ms posted:Fair enough. That sucks, I loved Home Improvement and Galaxy Quest. It's possible he wasn't a wing nut in those days and, this might sound crazy, but you can still enjoy his old work while disagreeing with him politically. Maybe he was crazy then and just hid it, maybe contemporary conservatism went mad and he followed it. Who knows?
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Oct 3, 2018 00:38
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If Mike J. Nelson's ultra-right-wing views mean you have to stop enjoying old MST3Ks, that'd be a real shame. 
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Oct 3, 2018 00:39
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Wheat Loaf posted:I remember reading about about this in a university class about fundamentalism; abortion is interesting because it was almost a non-issue in politics until some point in the early 70s when the government was talking about taxing some of those big Christian universities or something like that, and abortion was basically picked as a useful issue they could use to pursue the government over to take the heat off. Abortion has hung on for so long because it gets the fundies pulling the right lever and will never, ever be banned again fully. It's a battle that will be fought basically forever unless they go full Nazi. If they do that we have way worse problems than abortion.
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Oct 3, 2018 00:40
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Wheat Loaf posted:If Mike J. Nelson's ultra-right-wing views mean you have to stop enjoying old MST3Ks, that'd be a real shame. TBF literally every other cast member is pretty left or at least anti-Trump
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Oct 3, 2018 00:44
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Posting this mainly because it's Desus and Mero https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PHZrtbsxg
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Oct 3, 2018 00:48
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MachineryNoise posted:Tim Allen was on Conan not long ago and was joking about "safe spaces" and other conservative talking points.
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Oct 3, 2018 00:52
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ToxicSlurpee posted:It's possible he wasn't a wing nut in those days and, this might sound crazy, but you can still enjoy his old work while disagreeing with him politically. Maybe he was crazy then and just hid it, maybe contemporary conservatism went mad and he followed it. Who knows? Of course, I'm not going to stop liking his old stuff, but now that I know he's crazy that will always be in the back of my mind. Oh well, plenty of awesome stuff gets made by crazy people.
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Oct 3, 2018 00:52
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1000 Brown M and Ms posted:Of course, I'm not going to stop liking his old stuff, but now that I know he's crazy that will always be in the back of my mind. Oh well, plenty of awesome stuff gets made by crazy people. It's almost annoying how enjoyable Mel Gibson is in Lethal Weapon given that he's such a massive rear end in real life.
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Oct 3, 2018 00:57
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bunnyofdoom posted:TBF literally every other cast member is pretty left or at least anti-Trump And Nelson isn't a dick no matter his politics. He doesn't come across as a bigot or anything.
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Oct 3, 2018 01:00
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Wheat Loaf posted:If Mike J. Nelson's ultra-right-wing views mean you have to stop enjoying old MST3Ks, that'd be a real shame.
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Oct 3, 2018 01:04
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Remulak posted:Mike doesn’t appear in old eps, Joel does. I hate to break it to you, but MST3K was cancelled nearly 20 years ago. Aside from the Day/Oswalt stuff, they're all old episodes.
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Oct 3, 2018 01:18
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If you're curious, you can read stuff by people who were once Republican-identifying, like Jennifer Rubin, who now just go by the "conservative" label and see what views they espouse and in what framework. My question is: is there a "fiscally liberal, socially conservative" contingent out there and if so where are they and how labeled?
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Oct 3, 2018 01:55
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Pick posted:If you're curious, you can read stuff by people who were once Republican-identifying, like Jennifer Rubin, who now just go by the "conservative" label and see what views they espouse and in what framework. Haredi Jews. So much so that, in Israel, religiosity is correlated with higher support for social services.
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Oct 3, 2018 02:03
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Pick posted:If you're curious, you can read stuff by people who were once Republican-identifying, like Jennifer Rubin, who now just go by the "conservative" label and see what views they espouse and in what framework. I don't think "Fiscally liberal + social conservative" is possible, because to be progressive in one you have to break the other.
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Oct 3, 2018 02:05
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CommonShore posted:I don't think "Fiscally liberal + social conservative" is possible, because to be progressive in one you have to break the other. You could probably argue that more socialistic fascists are that; the Nazis took pretty good care of Germans they just, you know, were...not too nice to literally everybody else or Germans that they thought weren't loyal enough. I don't know if you'd really consider that properly fiscally liberal but that seems to be a thread of contemporary conservatism overall; socialism for Good and Right people, punishment and squalor for everybody else.
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Oct 3, 2018 02:09
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ToxicSlurpee posted:You could probably argue that more socialistic fascists are that; the Nazis took pretty good care of Germans they just, you know, were...not too nice to literally everybody else or Germans that they thought weren't loyal enough. I don't know if you'd really consider that properly fiscally liberal but that seems to be a thread of contemporary conservatism overall; socialism for Good and Right people, punishment and squalor for everybody else. Is it really progressive economics to redefine the boundaries of the exploited underclass?
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Oct 3, 2018 02:18
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MachineryNoise posted:Tim Allen was on Conan not long ago and was joking about "safe spaces" and other conservative talking points. You could feel the tension of Conan hating his obligation to interview him as he and the audience just awkwardly laughed along. Eh Bill Burr is invited on Conan all the time despite making the audience/Conan wince with his material at times because Bill knows how to own it and actually be funny. Tim Allen is not capable of that. Conservatives can be funny if they’re actually funny but usually that mindset doesn’t lend to good humor
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Oct 3, 2018 02:31
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MachineryNoise posted:Tim Allen was on Conan not long ago and was joking about "safe spaces" and other conservative talking points. You could feel the tension of Conan hating his obligation to interview him as he and the audience just awkwardly laughed along. Don't most liberal comedians joke about safe spaces, and pc culture too? Like Seinfeld talks a lot about it in comedians in cars, and none of his guests ever say "oh no, safe spaces and being overly pc is great." Maybe Tim Allen was extra dumb though, I've never seen the interview.
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Oct 3, 2018 02:32
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Ottermotive Insanity posted:Don't most liberal comedians joke about safe spaces, and pc culture too? Like Seinfeld talks a lot about it in comedians in cars, and none of his guests ever say "oh no, safe spaces and being overly pc is great." I don’t know what Seinfeld’s politics are but I know his actual beliefs are “these sjw college liberals are ruining my comedy style” which is basically just crotchety old man stuff
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Oct 3, 2018 02:34
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Seinfeld got mad because the audience didn't laugh hard enough at his joke.
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Oct 3, 2018 02:43
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I'd watch a show in which people just hosed with Jerry Seinfeld and made him angry, he's such a little weiner
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Oct 3, 2018 02:46
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You can be conservative in Hollywood, but the moment you make your political views your main appeal you're confined to Hallmark movie caliber work. I guess Tim Allen wasn't expecting many more Santa Clause or Toy Story paydays so now he's the 'conservative comedian'. There are plenty of conservative actors or comedians who don't latch onto Trumpism or if they do are smart enough not to be public about it. The ones that do are on their career downslopes or they're Steven Baldwin whose been down so long he doesn't even know which direction is up.
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Oct 3, 2018 02:48
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Allen is in Toy Story 4 which is out next year.
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Oct 3, 2018 02:49
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Allen is in Toy Story 4 which is out next year. Buzz Builds a wall
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Oct 3, 2018 02:52
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Aesop Poprock posted:Eh Bill Burr is invited on Conan all the time despite making the audience/Conan wince with his material at times because Bill knows how to own it and actually be funny. Tim Allen is not capable of that. Conservatives can be funny if they’re actually funny but usually that mindset doesn’t lend to good humor Bill Burr is funny because he sets up the expectation that you're going to hear a bunch of misogynistic stuff from an rear end in a top hat but then he just kind of points out some of the absurdities of contemporary thought. A perfect example was the interview where he said "believe women? Come on. All of them? I'll give you 87%, alright?" You're supposed to wince because of what you expect to come but then he subverts that by saying things that are actually pretty reasonable. In that case he was pointing out that immediately jumping to any conclusion if all you have is an accusation is absurd. Granted he also admits that he used to be quite an rear end in a top hat that probably didn't have the best opinion of women so part of the joke is "yes I used to be an rear end in a top hat and I'm still kind of a prick but hey I'm better than I used to be, OK? I'm trying." Part of the humor comes from the fact that nobody has perfect opinions or actions. Krispy Wafer posted:You can be conservative in Hollywood, but the moment you make your political views your main appeal you're confined to Hallmark movie caliber work. I guess Tim Allen wasn't expecting many more Santa Clause or Toy Story paydays so now he's the 'conservative comedian'. A big problem is how loving obnoxious conservatism has become. It's funny when they complain about everybody else being whiny babies when they're the whiniest babies that can possibly exist. I have never in my life met anybody as eager to be offended and persecuted as the religious right. If you don't agree with them 100% they scream at you that you're trying to silence them. Refusing to allow them to enact theocracy leads to screams of "MY RELIGIOUS FREEDOM!!!" When you point out that contemporary conservatism is increasingly unfriendly to anybody that isn't a straight white Christian man with money and of loving course everybody that isn't that is going to have some opinions on it they lose their minds. From what I've gathered a lot of the outspoken conservative celebrities are absolutely, completely insufferable to work with and can't take criticism at all. That gets turned into "no the problem is you because you hate conservatives!" No, the problem is that you're an rear end in a top hat that's impossible to work with. It's a baffling sense of entitlement really; for better or for worse some celebrities just fall out of the limelight. The ultra conservative ones whine and kvetch about "bloo a bloo bloo they didn't keep me where I was!" Well yeah sometimes that happens. Welcome to the world, get a loving helmet. Granted with what the GOP believes these days it's pretty difficult to support Republicans at all and still be a decent person. You kind of have to accept that right wing policy is openly hostile to a lot of demographics. You will get asked about that and it's pretty hard to say that you do, in fact, support policies that are actively harmful to women or minorities without coming across like an rear end in a top hat.
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Oct 3, 2018 03:14
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Allen is in Toy Story 4 which is out next year. So...one more Toy Story paycheck. He’s still going to make less this decade than he made last decade.
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Oct 3, 2018 03:38
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I feel like a paycheck in one of the most popular movie franchises ever while playing a main character is more than a lot of people can hope to make in a lifetime probably
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Oct 3, 2018 03:40
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