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Pastry of the Year posted:I was just reminded that human chancre Scott Adams had a cameo on one episode. ...but this was also before he went full MRA/Whatever he is now. On a similar note, should everyone now hate the Naked Gun movies because one of the actors in a minorish but very visible role went crazy and did serious crimes after the movies were made? Nordberg is even the butt of the jokes in all but the last movie, where he does nothing significant and just plays a character dumb as a sack of hammers. It is still one of the greatest slap-stick comedy movie series in existence, and Leslie Nielsen, Priscilla Presley and George Kennedy do wonderful roles in each one.
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Oct 3, 2018 19:46
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Der Kyhe posted:...but this was also before he went full MRA/Whatever he is now. On a similar note, should everyone now hate the Naked Gun movies because one of the actors in a minorish but very visible role went crazy and did serious crimes after the movies were made? Nordberg is even the butt of the jokes in all but the last movie, where he does nothing significant and just plays a character dumb as a sack of hammers. The Naked Gun only got better after the OJ trials, man. Now it's funny and cathartic.
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Oct 3, 2018 19:51
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It's up to you if a murderer being in a movie is a dealbreaker. One of my favorite movies is Clue, which was in part the work of John Landis, who was responsible for the deaths of two kids because he's an idiot shithead. The movie is still hilarious. I'm not going to criticize someone if they can't or won't watch it though, because that's up to them.
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Oct 3, 2018 19:57
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Der Kyhe posted:...but this was also before he went full MRA/Whatever he is now. On a similar note, should everyone now hate the Naked Gun movies because one of the actors in a minorish but very visible role went crazy and did serious crimes after the movies were made? Nordberg is even the butt of the jokes in all but the last movie, where he does nothing significant and just plays a character dumb as a sack of hammers. His role in the Naked Gun reportedly caused friction between OJ and Nicole. He'd be so proud he was a real actor and she'd tell him he was just a clown and everyone was making fun of him. Naked Gun probably got her killed. That's some beaver.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:05
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purple death ray posted:It's up to you if a murderer being in a movie is a dealbreaker. One of my favorite movies is Clue, which was in part the work of John Landis, who was responsible for the deaths of two kids because he's an idiot shithead. The movie is still hilarious. I'm not going to criticize someone if they can't or won't watch it though, because that's up to them. I still like The Neverending Story 
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Oct 3, 2018 20:05
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My rule is that I abstain from the work of rapists/murderers/pedophiles until they die. You have no idea how badly I want Woody Allen to die so that I can watch Sleeper again.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:11
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Krispy Wafer posted:His role in the Naked Gun reportedly caused friction between OJ and Nicole. He'd be so proud he was a real actor and she'd tell him he was just a clown and everyone was making fun of him. Probably yes, but still the movies themselves did nothing to anyone. The actor as a person might go crazy, but does it still mean that the products before that moment should be hated? By that metric everything made by Picasso is done by a major scale rear end in a top hat, chauvinistic narcissist who switched loyalties whenever someone paid more.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:15
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I just refuse to enjoy anything at all. Simpler that way. ... Get off my lawn.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:16
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How did the conversation become this. I was the one who brought up OJ but I never said anything about not watching his movies?
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Oct 3, 2018 20:17
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Fun fact: OJ was one of the candidates James Cameron considered to play the T-800.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:22
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There is no ethical consumption under capitalism; on any given project, someone is exploiting or mistreating someone else. Enjoy what you want to enjoy because there's no such thing as a "pure" movie or TV show.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:26
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Tardcore posted:My rule is that I abstain from the work of rapists/murderers/pedophiles until they die. I watched Annie Hall while I had to stay immobile for 3 hours donating platelets. It wasn't a bad film, but I question it's classic status. Woody Allen was insufferable, but a young Diane Keaton made it bearable. Old Diane Keaton isn't bad either except old Diane Keaton keeps defending old Woody Allen.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:32
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Besesoth posted:There is no ethical consumption under capitalism; on any given project, someone is exploiting or mistreating someone else. Enjoy what you want to enjoy because there's no such thing as a "pure" movie or TV show. If you want to go that way, you might also want to explain why in DDR actors lined up for "adult entertainment movies" so that they could get more exposure (no pun intended) and with that secure more luxurious positions in their life?
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Oct 3, 2018 20:42
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Wheat Loaf posted:Fun fact: OJ was one of the candidates James Cameron considered to play the T-800. As the story goes they passed on him because no one would believe him as a killer.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:42
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Wheat Loaf posted:Fun fact: OJ was one of the candidates James Cameron considered to play the T-800. The fun fact was he was rejected because he "wasn't believable as a killer"
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Oct 3, 2018 20:43
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Obviously he was right.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:49
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CharlestheHammer posted:See this is what I’m talking about racists get the full benefit of the doubt but people that commit crimes? Nope assume the absolute worst, including using info that wasn’t available at that time. I imagine that in OJ’s case the whole “if I did it” memoir probably helps inform some of that. It certainly doesn’t paint a picture of remorse or passionate mistake.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:49
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I could be wrong but I'm reasonably certain that a racist rant is not on the same level as literal murder.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:50
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fruit on the bottom posted:I imagine that in OJ’s case the whole “if I did it” memoir probably helps inform some of that. It certainly doesn’t paint a picture of remorse or passionate mistake. That was like a decade later though ToxicSlurpee posted:I could be wrong but I'm reasonably certain that a racist rant is not on the same level as literal murder. Yeah you would.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:53
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ToxicSlurpee posted:I could be wrong but I'm reasonably certain that a racist rant is not on the same level as literal murder. I could be wrong but 'long jail sentences' are not on the same level as 'getting fired from your job'. You're sort of trying to pin everyone who disagrees with you about attitude-toward-criminals vs attitude-toward-bigots into having to defend OJ getting away with murder and that's disingenuous. Most people who do crimes serve harsh sentences before they're allowed back in the real world. It's not unreasonable to think that someone needs to display actual remorse/desire for change before you're ok watching their stand up again or whatever.
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Oct 3, 2018 20:55
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Besesoth posted:There is no ethical consumption under capitalism; on any given project, someone is exploiting or mistreating someone else. Enjoy what you want to enjoy because there's no such thing as a "pure" movie or TV show. Imo it’s a big leap from “all projects are bad” to “so there’s no reason to choose not to support some projects because of how bad they are.” Just because nothing’s perfect doesn’t mean we can’t have standards.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:05
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CharlestheHammer posted:That was like a decade later though But both long before the post you quoted.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:06
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And that's why I'm asking how long. Twelve years later and people still bring it up. I haven't paid much attention to him since but really the attitude overall I'm seeing is never forgive, never forget. Any apology gets dumped on as not sincere enough or at the wrong time. Its like "this person is an unperson forever and you're a bad person if you still enjoy anything he was involved in." Strikes me as overkill to refuse to allow him to even try to redeem himself. We say it's wrong to not let a criminal back into the world after they've done their time but then say second chances are not available for that sort of thing? Crazy. I haven't heard of him doing anything racist since then so it seems he might have mended his ways. If he did why is it wrong to quit hating the guy? If you cast somebody out they'll end up in a situation where the only company or audience they'll ever have again is racists which will make it way more difficult to convince them that what they did was wrong and they should endeavor to be less of a poo poo.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:15
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Jesus, shut up.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:19
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Der Kyhe posted:If you want to go that way, you might also want to explain why in DDR actors lined up for "adult entertainment movies" so that they could get more exposure (no pun intended) and with that secure more luxurious positions in their life? Dance Dance Revolution?  Ariong posted:Imo it’s a big leap from “all projects are bad” to “so there’s no reason to choose not to support some projects because of how bad they are.” Just because nothing’s perfect doesn’t mean we can’t have standards. Of course there is. I'm not saying "there's no reason to choose not to support some projects because of how bad they are." I'm saying "don't feel pressured to only consume 'pure' media, because 'pure' media doesn't exist". When people in the conversation are asking "Am I allowed to enjoy--" the answer is obviously "yes, of course".
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Oct 3, 2018 21:20
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Besesoth posted:Dance Dance Revolution? East Germany, I think.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:21
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Koalas Massacre posted:Raising Hope did all of this much better imo Raising Hope was really good but completely fell apart in the last season.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:24
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fruit on the bottom posted:But both long before the post you quoted. ToxicSlurpee posted:And that's why I'm asking how long. Twelve years later and people still bring it up. I haven't paid much attention to him since but really the attitude overall I'm seeing is never forgive, never forget. Any apology gets dumped on as not sincere enough or at the wrong time. Its like "this person is an unperson forever and you're a bad person if you still enjoy anything he was involved in." Strikes me as overkill to refuse to allow him to even try to redeem himself. We say it's wrong to not let a criminal back into the world after they've done their time but then say second chances are not available for that sort of thing? Crazy. I haven't heard of him doing anything racist since then so it seems he might have mended his ways. If he did why is it wrong to quit hating the guy? Jesus Christ. How is just letting them back in somehow gonna fix them and not just enable them.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:31
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ToxicSlurpee posted:If you cast somebody out they'll end up in a situation where the only company or audience they'll ever have again is racists which will make it way more difficult to convince them that what they did was wrong and they should endeavor to be less of a poo poo. "b-b-b-but if we're mean to racists they'll only have racist friends and continue to be racist!!! you are morally obligated to be friends with and fans of racists because otherwise iss you're fault they're racist" lol just lol
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Oct 3, 2018 21:41
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InediblePenguin posted:lol no you idiot So nobody should ever be given an opportunity to change and be a better person if they do something lovely. Got it.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:47
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ToxicSlurpee posted:So nobody should ever be given an opportunity to change and be a better person if they do something lovely. Got it. Becoming a better person shouldn't be contingent on the forgiveness of the people or persons you threatened to lynch. Forgiveness is earned, not owed.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:49
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Koalas Massacre posted:Becoming a better person shouldn't be contingent on the forgiveness of the people or persons you threatened to lynch. I agree with you. What grates on my nerves is I've met a hell of a lot of people who give no opportunity to earn forgiveness. Nothing ever seems to be good enough. In this case I can't help but wondering where that line is or what would have to be done to convince people he isn't going to do that again. What should he do? Granted I'm also a Buddhist and forgive more easily than most so that affects my opinion on the matter.
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Oct 3, 2018 21:56
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Thank God you're here to stick up for incredibly wealthy white men who scream the n word at crowds
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Oct 3, 2018 22:06
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ToxicSlurpee posted:So nobody should ever be given an opportunity to change and be a better person if they do something lovely. Got it. You're saying that if you cast someone out they will become more racist. That is what you said. And since casting people out forces them to become more racist then you can't cast people out, you have to keep them in your circle, you can never ever be angry with them because being angry with them would be casting them out and therefore driving them further into the welcoming arms of people more racist than they already are. Now, my view is that if you actually get better and stop being a poo poo person, then maybe we can think about welcoming you back into the fold, but you are saying that we cannot cast them out of the fold ever at any point because casting them out means that they can only hang out with racist people, so you're not even actually considering or debating the concept of forgiving someone after the fact, you're saying that we have to forgive them the instant they do it and never cast them out or punish them for their views because casting them out is morally wrong because it will force them to be more racist. For fucksake
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Oct 3, 2018 22:10
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InediblePenguin posted:You're saying that if you cast someone out they will become more racist. No they're not
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Oct 3, 2018 22:18
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I feel like the whole "How soon is too soon?" Topic would make for an interesting D&D thread.
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Oct 3, 2018 22:26
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:No they're not They did say that yes. Unless you think the phrase casting them out will mean they will only hang out with racists isn’t mean to be an escalation. Which would be an extremely generous read
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Oct 3, 2018 22:28
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I'm not saying immediate forgiveness, no backlash at all, or no punishments at all. What he did was lovely and yeah some backlash was warranted as was a career derailment because, gently caress. That is not at all acceptable behavior. What I'm saying is if he hasn't done anything since and is making an effort to not do anything like that again how long until we collectively let go? If he's completely tossed out of not racist society forever all that's left is racists. Doesn't guarantee it but if you lock somebody in that box and don't let them out it gets harder to convince them to not be a racist.
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Oct 3, 2018 22:28
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Dude most people only think about Michael Richards when an old Seinfeld comes on the TV, like, what are you expecting to happen here? What do you think Michael Richards is missing out on by not getting the collective forgiveness of society or whatever the gently caress you're on about? Let him work at a loving Kroger in obscurity like millions of the rest of us. That's not a loving punishment.
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Oct 3, 2018 22:35
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Not a single person in the world thought about Michael Richards for years until two pages ago. I doubt even Seinfeld fans know his real name without googling it.
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Oct 3, 2018 22:37
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