[MAFIA] Shine VI: Fool's Gold

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > [MAFIA] Shine VI: Fool's Gold

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

IllegallySober posted:

Good morning, I’m catching up soon but have skimmed to here. Made the mistake of being in two active to semi-active games at once mid week. Will respond to the points against me shortly.

Heres hoping!

# ? Oct 4, 2018 22:39

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 01:12

Social Studies 3rd Period: Oct 31, 2012; THUNDERDOME LOSER

All of that makes a lot of sense, yeah. Thanks, Mafia Dad!

Max posted:

My follow up to that would be: If you imagine yourself back on day 1 and IS isn't pinging you, who would you have rather been the lunch and why?

Hmm. Thinking on this and going back to D1, with how I was feeling at the time and doing a reread, some thoughts and not necessarily in order:

0.) It's the easy answer, I know - and with what I just gave Gaspy a hot second ago - but probably IP. If not for the vote on TMM, then for the response once pressure was put on.
1.) Hal, partially for what I feel is a sin of skating on by a bit _{pot, kettle, yes} while also going about :

Hal Incandenza posted:

I am here through deadline now, I will ##vote IS because bad posts are worse than no posts in my book

Hal Incandenza posted:

Well I mean they are all "bad" in the sense that you seem to have written up some summaries of people's posts, then randomly(?) picked me and MMT to call out and then said nothing of substance about us and then went back to posting summaries and just don't seem particularly invested in anything you say.

Now that IP has posted more they may look worse than you however and you are here so maybe you can change my views on you with dazzling IllegallySober casework

Which, sure, but that strikes me as a little odd with virtually zero casework/reads themselves before or after?
2.) beek. Obviously a smidge late for that, but mostly a follow up to one of my few bits of actual content D1 that on beek v. bif, that's where I was leaning toward previously with beek's posting.
3.) Hum. Mostly a gut read, I think, I don't have anything in particular I can point at beyond that.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 22:40

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

So I reckon the bk thing creates a really tough atmosphere today for scum to post and fake case because everyone's sort of waiting for something to happen. Any new cases or shade throwing is going to be scrutinized the gently caress out of, so I'm feeling mighty curious about those kind of lurking / skimming through today.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 22:41

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

hambeet posted:

Oh gently caress u forgot humalongs is in the game

Woah not gently caress u. gently caress I forgot. Me. Hambeet.

Lol

# ? Oct 4, 2018 22:42

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

So yeah that's humalongs and IS mainly.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 22:45

Asphyxious: Jun 25, 2012; I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life.

hambeet posted:

So yeah that's humalongs and IS mainly.

Check out Solus� posts today for a bumper crop of no reads and tangents as well.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 22:55

George Kansas: Sep 1, 2008; preface all my posts with this

SolusLunes posted:

Did your ability require Shine? If it didn't, did you have an ability that required it? (and what did that do)

No, and I don't have a shine role.

SolusLunes posted:

Also did you pick your role name from this, you horrible scum person you?

No? lol

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:04

George Kansas: Sep 1, 2008; preface all my posts with this

Asphyxious posted:

I reread Asiina to see who she was looking at, the only people she really thought were scum were BK and KB.

In my experience KB wouldn�t have picked a) someone suspicious of him and b) someone actively contributing so it�s a closed loop, unfortunately.

you could probably say the same of me, if you were used to playing games with me, so I think I'd file this under wifom

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:08

Murmur Twin: Feb 11, 2003; An ever-honest pacifist with no mind for tricks.

Murmur Twin posted:

(phoneposting until further notice)

##vote bk

BKs case on Bif feels faked to me, like he decided to call her scum and then reverse-engineered a reason. I�m not sure I buy that anyone would think Bif�s early d1 vote on TMM was �calculated� and required hedging, and I disagree with his assessment that his not knowing her opinion there (again, on early d1) is suspicious at all.

IllegallySober posted:

This is the only substantive post by MMT I can find:

I disagree with her opinion here re: BK, but at least she�s got an explanation for her thought process. And she did mention beforehand that early-week was tough for her and is catching up now, so we�ll see what that leads to.

I�m not sure where else to go right now. Somebody want to sell me on a case that isn�t BK, for the moment?

IS: what about my opinion of BK did you disagree with? What's your opinion of him now?

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:10

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

BottleKnight posted:

Sorry, was on the phone with my dad.

I�m a watcher (busybody) and was watching TMM, so this parrot thing is very confusing to me! Nobody visited TMM. But I don�t even begin to have the requisite information to explain this

If you had actual results that could be corroborated from your claimed action, I might consider shenanigans, but since you don�t, I think you have to be the vote today. Sorry, BK.

(I�m not going to vote right now, but this is where I�ll land when we are ready)

SolusLunes posted:

Though I do want to know:

what'd you do last night, bif?

Bifauxnen posted:

nothing actually, is there a point to this besides rolefishing

SolusLunes posted:

That was it, really. You're the best!

This is a strange back-and-forth to note for later.

TMMadman posted:

I don't know if what they did is scummy yet because I don't know the alignment of IS yet.

However, if IS is actually town, then yes, I think it is scummy that hambeet complained about the votes being spread out but then didn't vote to consolidate votes on the people that had 2 votes (and I would have to take a look at those people) and also think that Hal could be scummy for putting two people in a tie at 4 votes, although to be fair, that would be less of an issue at that point. I'd have to go through the votes again to really nail it down.

Well, good news for you, I am indeed town, so something to consider for later-game here.

Social Studies 3rd Period posted:

I hope it was the right choice!

On that, a side note, probably not a terrible idea for people to mention their choice if nobody has any objections? It might not be anything significant at all, but it might be useful information for later. (Also if we wind up with a majority saying they chose A when we went B, well... )

I don�t know why this matters to you but I chose Option B.

Asphyxious posted:

The onus then would be on bk if he were town to generate reads/content etc on the way out but I kinda think that�s not going to happen for obvious reasons.

That�s pretty much my thought on it too.

Bifauxnen posted:

it's just very odd, I'm not used to you being within a few places of me

out of the lurkers though, IS is standing out to me. This particular post is interesting:

going from scum read to null read on me in the same post might be ok if he was contrasting his immediate first reads with where he settled into at the time of posting.

but he says after he started out with that initial scum read on me, I just sound aggressive like normal so that downgraded me to null.. while BK starts off leaning town but then overjustifies and... still looks the same, leaning town?

this seems like a defense of BK while throwing some shade my way at worst, a pretty weak weigh-in on our fight at best. Compare to others who were insisting one or the other of us looked real scummy.

it makes this later post of his about IP look like it's protecting a little:

You�re right that I changed my thought process re: you as I was putting that together on mobile. Initially I read the argument between the two of you as a binary choice, but as I considered it further I decided I felt more null about you and town about BK, and I justified a town read on BK as more the initial lead-in to the discussion rather than where it ended up. Clearly I was wrong on that score, at least as far as BK is concerned.

I�m not seeing your angle on �protection� of IP towards the end of your post. Can you explain further?

Murmur Twin posted:

(a) Anyone can give cursory thoughts, it's not like scum players just sit there quietly until they're picked off (unless they're me )
(b) I believe that not having scum reads is a scum tell. It's a lot harder to accuse people of being scum if you already know who the team is
(c) When I looked at the d1 vote, I thought that it was abnormal how much more suspicious IP (whose frustration seemed genuine to me) looked to people than IS, which to me was easily explained by people using suspicion on IP to mask having to have an opinion on IS. Pretty much like BK did.

OK gotta go to class, back in a few hours.

a) I sort of get what you�re going for here, although as you yourself point out I was at least attempting to read and contribute where I could, as opposed to being completely absent and/or silent.

b) I actually would argue that making town reads is more of an indication of town play as opposed to scum play. Scum know they have to argue in bad faith to get someone dunked. Town players shouldn�t be afraid to make town reads as if nothing else, it�s limiting the pool of possible players where scum could be.

c) I can�t really speak to the general group at large�s opinions on IP as opposed to myself, so I�m not going to try. That�s for others to comment on.

Cutting this post off here so I don�t lose it and will continue shortly.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:16

George Kansas: Sep 1, 2008; preface all my posts with this

TMMadman posted:

Hey BK, why did you decide to watch me on N1?

There was a lot of discussion around you D1 and I figured you'd be a likely target for lots of potential things, including the kill. In my head it was between you and Max, and I ended up choosing you because I thought killing Max N1 would be a little rough.

Hal Incandenza posted:

I mean I get he was on the phone with his dad, but if you can post �interesting� you can post �interesting I watched TMM last night� just as easily

Maybe he worked out the fake claim with his dad!

I literally checked the thread while I was on the phone with my dad, so I posted that and then was like "welp guess i'll compartmentalize THAT happening"

but you're right, I really should've had the foresight to see how my brief absence would be thought as a scumbud deliberation session

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:16

Max: Nov 30, 2002

I think we should table BK�s dad as a discussion point.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:19

Bifauxnen: Aug 12, 2010; Curses! Foiled again!

IllegallySober posted:

This is a strange back-and-forth to note for later.

Yeah, I'm still wondering about that. I thought maybe if Solus had seen me do something it might corroborate some busdriving shenanigans, but welp

quote:

I’m not seeing your angle on “protection” of IP towards the end of your post. Can you explain further?

oh, that was meant to be "projecting", didn't catch the typo

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:22

TMMadman: Sep 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

IllegallySober posted:

If you had actual results that could be corroborated from your claimed action, I might consider shenanigans, but since you don’t, I think you have to be the vote today. Sorry, BK.

What if there was a way to corroborate his N1 action during N2? Would you want to keep him alive or would you still want to lynch BK?

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:23

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

TMMadman posted:

I will say that one point against BK is that he did break the 4-4 tie between IS and IP

TMMadman posted:

So if BK is scum then IS is also probably scum.

I�d have to go back and look at this- haven�t yet- but if true, I agree with you that�s not a point in my favor. Also not something I can control, though, so yeah.

King Burgundy posted:

This is interesting.

More and more I'm thinking BK is going to flip scum and there are no shenanigans involved. Since surely if he was town he would have more to say on his way out.

Yep. Agreed.

BottleKnight posted:

No, and I don't have a shine role.

No? lol

You have no Shine role at all? That would be very surprising to me from what I know about these games.

Murmur Twin posted:

IS: what about my opinion of BK did you disagree with? What's your opinion of him now?

I disagreed with your opinion of BK because you were suspicious of him and I read him for town at that point. That�s pretty much the extent of it, although I did say you at least had an explanation to back up your point of view.

My opinion of him now is there�s no realistic way he can�t have been the one to kill Asiina, so he�s got to be scum or at the very least a 3P killing role of some ilk.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:26

Max: Nov 30, 2002

TMMadman posted:

What if there was a way to corroborate his N1 action during N2? Would you want to keep him alive or would you still want to lynch BK?

That would require someone claiming for no reason so I don�t see how that will happen.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:28

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Bifauxnen posted:

oh, that was meant to be "projecting", didn't catch the typo

Projecting makes more sense in that context, thanks.

TMMadman posted:

What if there was a way to corroborate his N1 action during N2? Would you want to keep him alive or would you still want to lynch BK?

You�re saying if he were to be left alive today and if his N2 results didn�t match claims, then dunk him?

I�d be more on-board with that idea if his initial responses had been more forcefully denying, I think, but I�m leaning more towards caught scum than innocent bystander here.

Also, side note, someone should have received something from me last night. The fact that that person hasn�t said anything about it yet bothers me a little.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:29

TMMadman: Sep 9, 2003; by Fluffdaddy

Max posted:

That would require someone claiming for no reason so I don’t see how that will happen.

Why are you shooting down discussion?

And also answer the question.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:31

hambeet: Sep 13, 2002

IllegallySober posted:

.

b) I actually would argue that making town reads is more of an indication of town play as opposed to scum play. Scum know they have to argue in bad faith to get someone dunked. Town players shouldn’t be afraid to make town reads as if nothing else, it’s limiting the pool of possible players where scum could be.

What? No. Trying to make scum reads when you're scum is hard because you actually need to make something up. so the tendency is for people to try and look like their casing by making reads and clearing town. So when someone's only making town reads, are they hunting for scum or only keeping up appearances?

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:32

Max: Nov 30, 2002

TMMadman posted:

Why are you shooting down discussion?

And also answer the question.

I'm giving my opinion, you're free to keep discussing it. I can just see you building up to a big post about how we should actually let BK live based off of a theory with no evidence to back it up.

I think lunching BK given what happened in the night is the easiest way to figure out if it was as simple as we think it was, or can give us info about some distracting abilities to watch out for going forward wrt night action analysis. Leaving him alive is going to leave way too many questions out in the open for the size that this game is.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:35

Max: Nov 30, 2002

IllegallySober posted:

Projecting makes more sense in that context, thanks.

You�re saying if he were to be left alive today and if his N2 results didn�t match claims, then dunk him?

I�d be more on-board with that idea if his initial responses had been more forcefully denying, I think, but I�m leaning more towards caught scum than innocent bystander here.

Also, side note, someone should have received something from me last night. The fact that that person hasn�t said anything about it yet bothers me a little.

Was it someone that's posted?

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:35

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

IllegallySober posted:

Also, side note, someone should have received something from me last night. The fact that that person hasn’t said anything about it yet bothers me a little.

If the item had some kind of power I imagine they'd keep it to themselves so they aren't a target.

But if the item was just random nonsense like a ticket or something I agree it would be weird not to mention it.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:37

sniper4625: Sep 26, 2009; Loyal to the hEnd

IllegallySober posted:

Also, side note, someone should have received something from me last night. The fact that that person hasn’t said anything about it yet bothers me a little.

This is interesting. I assume its not the kind of thing you feel comfortable sharing what it was in public?

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:38

sniper4625: Sep 26, 2009; Loyal to the hEnd

Good teamup on that point guys

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:39

Asphyxious: Jun 25, 2012; I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life.

Considering what was recquired to get into this game, we should have zero lurkers :/

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:39

Max: Nov 30, 2002

Asphyxious posted:

Considering what was recquired to get into this game, we should have zero lurkers :/

Agreed.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:39

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Max posted:

I'm giving my opinion, you're free to keep discussing it. I can just see you building up to a big post about how we should actually let BK live based off of a theory with no evidence to back it up.

I think lunching BK given what happened in the night is the easiest way to figure out if it was as simple as we think it was, or can give us info about some distracting abilities to watch out for going forward wrt night action analysis. Leaving him alive is going to leave way too many questions out in the open for the size that this game is.

I agree with this. I can picture a world where it was someone who was putting forth tons of good town content and it gave me enough second thoughts to consider it, but this is not that world. BK is lurking like caught scum.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:40

Max: Nov 30, 2002

If it was a larger game I'd maybe consider it, but this isn't large and I don't want us constantly coming back to this argument each day.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:41

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Max posted:

Was it someone that's posted?

Yes. But for right now I�ll leave it at that.

hambeet posted:

What? No. Trying to make scum reads when you're scum is hard because you actually need to make something up. so the tendency is for people to try and look like their casing by making reads and clearing town. So when someone's only making town reads, are they hunting for scum or only keeping up appearances?

My point is that eventually scum are going to have to drive a case they don�t believe in to win, so a player making town reads in good faith shouldn�t automatically be scummy on that reason alone.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:42

Social Studies 3rd Period: Oct 31, 2012; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Asphyxious posted:

Considering what was recquired to get into this game, we should have zero lurkers :/

Agreed! I've been trying to do better today, I know how many people wanted the spot so I don't wanna be that person that took one. :ohdear:

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:42

Max: Nov 30, 2002

At this point I'd just say call out the person then.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:42

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Mr. Humalong is withdrawing due to unexpected work issues. Seeking a replacement promptly. :rubshands:

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:44

Asphyxious: Jun 25, 2012; I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life.

Max posted:

At this point I'd just say call out the person then.

Agreed

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:44

Asphyxious: Jun 25, 2012; I'm trying to explain that I'm a person who wishes to live a very quiet life.

Podima posted:

Mr. Humalong is withdrawing due to unexpected work issues. Seeking a replacement promptly.

Lol the system works!

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:44

sniper4625: Sep 26, 2009; Loyal to the hEnd

Well I assume it wasn't Hum, if they posted, so I agree call em out.

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:45

Hal Incandenza: Feb 12, 2004

Max posted:

I think we should table BK�s dad as a discussion point.

Max/BK�s dad scum team

# ? Oct 4, 2018 23:46

Podima: Nov 4, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Xad replaces Mr. Humalong. :guinness:

---

Votecount for Day 2 :beerpal:

BottleKnight (2): King Burgundy, Murmur Twin, SolusLunes, sniper4625, ~~Murmur Twin~~, ~~sniper4625~~

hambeet (1): Bifauxnen

Max (1): TMMadman

Not Voting (10): Asphyxious, BottleKnight, Hal Incandenza, hambeet, IllegallySober, Max, Murmur Twin, sniper4625, Social Studies 3rd Period, Xad :rubshands:

With 14 people still alive, it takes 8 votes to execute.
The current deadline is October 05^th, 2018 at 10 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 1 day, 2 hours.

Today's execution method is Standard Majority. A 1-Shot bonus will be available at some point during the day.

# ? Oct 5, 2018 00:48

Social Studies 3rd Period: Oct 31, 2012; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Podima posted:

Xad replaces Mr. Humalong.

Hello Xad! Obviously take your time to catch up, but did you get something delivered to you by chance last night?

# ? Oct 5, 2018 00:58

Referee: Aug 25, 2004; "Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

I�ve re-read the game day, and I believe my recipient left a breadcrumb I�d previously been unaware of, so I�m satisfied on that score for now.

# ? Oct 5, 2018 01:06

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# ? Apr 19, 2024 01:12

sniper4625: Sep 26, 2009; Loyal to the hEnd

IllegallySober posted:

I’ve re-read the game day, and I believe my recipient left a breadcrumb I’d previously been unaware of, so I’m satisfied on that score for now.

Looks like a fun datamining project for the rest of us.

# ? Oct 5, 2018 01:12

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