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Speedrunning brings a fair amount of appreciation to bad games. Watch any of the past couple of years of GDQ's awful blocks. Small communities will pour hundreds of hours into bad games and come out with a greater understanding of them. Often times what makes a game bad to play casually are quirks that make them into great speedruns. If you want ppl playing bad games and enjoy them for what they are in the same vein as how people watch The Room, thats about the closest analog I can think of.
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Oct 6, 2018 11:41
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It's kind of like Dan's playthrough of the first Kane and Lynch I saw a while back. It's interesting to look back on the series, but the whole time you have to suffer through repetitive shooting and struggle against the controls. It's hard to keep enthusiasm up, unless you have the fun of breaking the game over your knee that speedrunning provides.
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Oct 6, 2018 12:18
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I reckon EYE: Divine Cybermancy fits the bill. The gameplay has a lot of potential for fun in it, even if it is seriously flawed in some ways, but the whole thing feels like it was cobbled together by a few friends who had a vision and enthusiasm and not that much else. Which, well...
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Oct 6, 2018 12:38
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Mandalore Gaming is like, the king of finding the appeal in somewhat flawed/weird games. Plenty other little things out there too like Research Indicates' Trespasser Let's Play, or a whole A-Z of Licensed Games that was put together by some British idiot.
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Oct 6, 2018 12:44
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The issue with appreciating bad games is that when it's an unenjoyable interactive experience then it makes it so much harder to enjoy. Like yeah I think everything surrounding the gameplay in DEADLY PREMONITION is great, but sadly I still have to play it. And that always seems to be the caveat with these things, that if you ignore this core fundamental thing you have to do for hours then the rest is great. It's probably why these things won't be embraced the same way something like THE ROOM is for example.
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Oct 6, 2018 12:53
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Appreciation of bad games will probably only come when they are old and easily emulated since that lets you introduce QoL stuff and bypass/work around the worst of of the crappy stuff while still keeping anything that's actually charming. For PC games using CheatEngine etc. to cut down on the bad parts might also help clean the poo poo of the charming parts. In some cases playing the version of the game that's more ok to play because of interface or porting issues instead of trying to find the worst version of the game is enough to make it more enjoyable. Like the example Kane & Lynch, playing it with KB+M instead of controller it's just mechanically a mediocre game that followed the now abandoned standards of it's time, instead of unplayable. In other cases, like for older console games, it might be getting the version from a certain region due to the localisation changing mechanics or just good old NTSC->PAL slowdown.
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Oct 6, 2018 13:03
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DrVenkman posted:The issue with appreciating bad games is that when it's an unenjoyable interactive experience then it makes it so much harder to enjoy. Like yeah I think everything surrounding the gameplay in DEADLY PREMONITION is great, but sadly I still have to play it. And that always seems to be the caveat with these things, that if you ignore this core fundamental thing you have to do for hours then the rest is great. It's probably why these things won't be embraced the same way something like THE ROOM is for example. Streaming is a kind of fix to that. Somebody still has to play the game, but that leaves the audience to actually enjoy and talk about the game while it's being played. It's kinda like watching The Room, in that having a big group to watch with and riff on it is the most enjoyable part. Let's Plays also work but they aren't concurrent with stream chat so they need really strong commentary to hold my attention, and most modern LP's I've seen hold to the Game Grumps style of commentary, where it's not really the game that matters it's the hosts, so it usually ends up being like a kind of podcast with one of the hosts playing a game in the background.
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Oct 6, 2018 13:14
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SatansBestBuddy posted:Let's Plays also work but they aren't concurrent with stream chat so they need really strong commentary to hold my attention, and most modern LP's I've seen hold to the Game Grumps style of commentary, where it's not really the game that matters it's the hosts, so it usually ends up being like a kind of podcast with one of the hosts playing a game in the background. Maybe it's just who I watch, but I generally find the opposite to be true, where streamers are less likely to be focusing on the game and more about cracking jokes or interacting with the chat either because their attention is divided or because it can't be edited it post so they feel the need to fill every silent moment with something even if it's neither good nor relevant. I'm generally a fan of Dan's Sadboy games streams but a lot of the talk in them are very much not really about the game. Hel fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Oct 6, 2018 |
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Oct 6, 2018 13:26
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Hel posted:Maybe it's just who I watch, but I generally find the opposite to be true, where streamers are less likely to be focusing on the game and more about cracking jokes or interacting with the chat either because their attention is divided or because it can't be edited it post so they feel the need to fill every silent moment with something even if it's neither good nor relevant. I'm generally a fan of Dan's Sadboy games streams but a lot of the talk in them are very much not really about the game. Joseph Anderson and Chris Davis both make insanely long form critiques and both also stream on twitch, their gameplay might have funny commentary but they do focus on the game
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Oct 6, 2018 13:53
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nine-gear scarecrow posted:Doug bad a little bit good sometimes maybe. Doug ran out of media he actually has already seen or were nostalgic to him. It hurts his videos a lot that he has no interest in researching stuff he doesn't already have some insight to or cares about. Like when he shat all over Mara Wilson in that review of Thomas the Tank Engine when he could have googled her and seen that there were multiple writings of hers where she explains that she was still dealing with her mother having died, going through puberty and absolutely miserable and tired of acting. It would have been great to include but whelp here's a thousand Mathilda jokes.
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Oct 6, 2018 14:03
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Plague is ranting about an anime again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2tkz92eG_E
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Oct 6, 2018 14:41
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Inspector Gesicht posted:It's sad that Data Design Interactive made nothing but wank after the nostalgia-favourite Lego Rock Raiders. That game may have been buggy, and missing content, but it was the tits 20 years ago.
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Oct 6, 2018 15:33
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21 Muns posted:I haven't watched any of Doug's work in months, but I legitimately feel like he's regressed, not just failed to evolve. Probably, now he is just stuck in a dumb version of the punishment for Sisyphus. Thompsons posted:I don't really think this guy gets why there can't really be appreciation for bad games in the same way as goofy films or television. The closest thing I can think of for a Beloved Bad Game is Deadly Premonition, where the gameplay is pretty weak but it gets by on being quirky and charming, and even then it's not like the mechanics are bad or broken in the same way that American Tail game is. Sure but fivle is a legit broken mechanically type of bad game. Some games could be good or even great if the games mechanics weren’t broken as hell, like Kane and lynch.
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Oct 6, 2018 15:54
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There are some communities like Glorious Trainwrecks and "Kusoge" circles in Japan that comprise of self-aware bad game developers and fans circulating their work around and celebrating both the awfulness and the appealing amateur creative core of the bad games that they develop.
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Oct 6, 2018 16:54
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The ZX Spectrum community has run a "Crap Games Competition" since 1996 in tribute to the legendary Cassette 50, a tape made up of 50 mostly terrible games that was advertised every month in literally every computer magazine back in the 80's. I did a video on said compilation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z-4k-jDS_s
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Oct 6, 2018 17:22
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Down the Rabbit Hole is back with a new episode featuring Guru Larry, covering an early Youtube gaming channel called GameLife: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0uWTKomkaY The ending is pretty  and really presages the whole gamergate movement.
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Oct 6, 2018 17:38
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Mr.Radar posted:Down the Rabbit Hole is back with a new episode featuring Guru Larry, covering an early Youtube gaming channel called GameLife: I remember all of this happening. I always wondered what happened to Melissa. It was all just such a perfect illustration of how no good deed goes unpunished, with that adorable nerd turning out to be a violent misogynist and so many supporters turning out to be proto-stalkers in the chris chan mold.
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Oct 6, 2018 17:48
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Back in the days when the most popular channel on YouTube belonged to an 80 year old British WW2 vet... This should be a good 'un!
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Oct 6, 2018 17:58
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OmanyteJackson posted:Plague is ranting about an anime again Plague's rants here could be attributed to the shonen genre as a whole but it was a good vid. It's been over a decade since I cared about Naruto but it's great to revisit just how bad that show was.
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Oct 6, 2018 17:58
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Drakengard is a bad game that's well-liked despite it's gameplay.
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Oct 6, 2018 18:02
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Another game that might hit the "It's so bad it's good"-feeling is Sonic 2006. The poo poo that speedrunners do with that mess of a game is downright inspiring and absurdly entertaining to watch. And playing it is interesting, even if you've seen other people play it before because there's always something new that goes wrong and makes you laugh. Shenmue is a bad game, but a cult classic, partially due to the time at which it came out and many of its ill-advised aspirations that might have inspired other creators in the industry. I unironically appreciate Drakengard and love playing it, with all the tedium that entails and could get endlessly pretentious about that mess of a game. I'm eating up every line and plot beat nonetheless. There's also meme games like goat simulator that sell themselves on being a broken mess and create followings. And I have to admit, I've grinded out every goddamn achievement of classic Steam trash game Bad Rats and actively looked forward to the sequel. I'm pretty sure it's just wrong to say that video games don't have an appreciation for bad games. And schlock stories have been a staple of video games since the eighties. Zwiebel fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Oct 6, 2018 |
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Oct 6, 2018 19:35
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MonsieurChoc posted:Drakengard is a bad game that's well-liked despite it's gameplay. Good thing Dark Id played it for the rest of us 
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Oct 6, 2018 19:52
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Add me to the pile of people who really don't mind bad games, generally speaking. Probably helps that i have an infatuation with oddball middle of the road releases and BETRAYAL-level sequels/reboots. I'd also argue that movies and the like have equivalent parallels to "but you have to suffer through playing them". For instance, as much of a classic MST3k's Manos episode is the print is so murky and awful that I just can't stand to watch it. People generally don't enjoy movies with godawful audio quality. And while it's something that people often scoff about, there's the whole subtitles thing (and on the opposite side bad dubbing).
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Oct 6, 2018 19:55
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I feel that way about the last few Piranha Bytes games. The first Risen was a mess that even I can’t defend but its two sequels, while full of problems, had something to them that made them interesting in spite of that. Same with their most recent release ELEX. There’s a sense of creativity and unpolished charm to their work that I can appreciate, even if their technical abilities leave something to be desired. It’s like they warped in from a parallel universe where Bioware never standardized the RPG genre on PCs.
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Oct 6, 2018 20:10
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Mr.Radar posted:Down the Rabbit Hole is back with a new episode featuring Guru Larry, covering an early Youtube gaming channel called GameLife: This makes me want to fire up killallnerds.exe
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Oct 6, 2018 20:28
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Nitro Rad is going to cover the Clock Tower games for the rest of this year's Halloween Special. He also did Rule of Rose right before Clock Tower; but I don't want to link to that one because it's the survival horror game where children are horrible to each other and is the incarnation of  and  .
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Oct 6, 2018 21:26
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Leal posted:Which internet super star will make a video about the current Bowsette meme first? I'm hedging my bets on Mat Pat Well while I'm wrong on account of forgetting about Pewd's 24/7 meme culture job  CALLED IT. Also the video shows a page loading bowsette porn (of course tastefully not loading the full image)
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Oct 7, 2018 00:49
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Re:bad games that are fun like bad movies, how about Detroit: Become Human? It basically just is a bad movie, with only cursory game elements.
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Oct 7, 2018 01:49
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Mr.Radar posted:Down the Rabbit Hole is back with a new episode featuring Guru Larry, covering an early Youtube gaming channel called GameLife: I had no idea the dude who threatened a woman had only been on three dates with her. Jesus. All the nazi chud poo poo that’s popped off over the past few years really was inevitable, and if it wasn’t kicked off one way it would have gone off another way regardless.
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Oct 7, 2018 01:52
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21 Muns posted:Re:bad games that are fun like bad movies, how about Detroit: Become Human? It basically just is a bad movie, with only cursory game elements. counterpoint: absolutely gently caress david cage and every single thing he has made
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Oct 7, 2018 02:19
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:counterpoint: absolutely gently caress david cage and every single thing he has made Yes, David Cage is terrible, that's a large part of why I think it's fun to laugh at his lovely games.
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Oct 7, 2018 02:40
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David Cage made a character in the likeness of his sister and had her give him a lap dance in game. And I don't mean as in him playing a character, but he himself is in the game.
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Oct 7, 2018 02:43
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21 Muns posted:Yes, David Cage is terrible, that's a large part of why I think it's fun to laugh at his lovely games. the problem is a lot of people unironically love his games and think they are great examples of deep storytelling and other such bullshit. heavy rain won all kinds of accolades from the gaming press. in fact quantic dream often being held up as an example of excellence in game storytelling is maybe the single biggest argument against the idea that video games can be considered art, or at least art worthy of existing. this can also all be applied to hideo kojima DEEP STATE PLOT fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Oct 7, 2018 |
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Oct 7, 2018 02:44
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:the problem is a lot of people unironically love his games and think they are great examples of deep storytelling and other such bullshit. heavy rain won all kinds of accolades from the gaming press. While true, Detroit has the advantage of having actually good voice actors (like my boy Clancy Brown) and having decisions matter a lot more than in any previous game. Of course, Cage was not the one coming up with much of the good parts of the game, that tip of the hat goes to the devs. I would seriously play an LA Noire-style game starring Hank and Connor: bros4lyfe.
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Oct 7, 2018 02:47
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Again, for anyone interested in an insider perspective on Become Human, I’d recommend checking out CirclMastr’s LP of the game because his primary co-commentator is his sister—Valorie Curry, aka Kara. So you can learn all about what it’s like to work on a David Cage game from someone who worked on a David Cage game.
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Oct 7, 2018 02:56
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business hammocks posted:I had no idea the dude who threatened a woman had only been on three dates with her. Jesus. All the nazi chud poo poo that’s popped off over the past few years really was inevitable, and if it wasn’t kicked off one way it would have gone off another way regardless. Certainly shows as well how no one is immune to hubris. Andrew was one of the first examples of YouTube Ego - a few shows here, a bit of success there...all of a sudden this awkward nerd's showing an ego and entitlement that previously you'd only credit, like, a big star for or whatever (at least back then). By the way, to show how much things have changed - even at their peak, GameLife only had a few hundred or so subs. Larry himself covered GameLife a bit on his own Fact Hunt series a couple of years back. The DTRH is much more expanded of course but there's some more tidbits there (you've also got PewDiePie and the Irate Cun-er, Gamer) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK4ZGRF2uS8
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Oct 7, 2018 03:50
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the impression i got from detroit was of a team stuggling to overcome an auteur's ego to create a good game while said auteur repeatedly drives them back into the ground. for every glimmer of something good in that game you cut to something ludicrous or tonally bankrupt.
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Oct 7, 2018 04:06
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DEEP STATE PLOT posted:the problem is a lot of people unironically love his games and think they are great examples of deep storytelling and other such bullshit. heavy rain won all kinds of accolades from the gaming press. in fact quantic dream often being held up as an example of excellence in game storytelling is maybe the single biggest argument against the idea that video games can be considered art, or at least art worthy of existing. One of the biggest problems in games criticism is the myopic focus on comparing games to movies. In the worst case this results in a criticism where the game is good in the ways it is like a movie and bad in the ways it is unlike a movie. It can be useful to compare video games to film but following art forms are all as or more relevant: - literature - tabletop roleplaying - board games - theater (including improv, community theater, and wrestling) - sports - sculpture/scale modeling - theme rides and haunted houses It's telling how long there was a search for gaming's "Citizen Kane" where Citizen Kane was reduced to a featureless cube labeled "ART".
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Oct 7, 2018 04:39
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Microcline posted:One of the biggest problems in games criticism is the myopic focus on comparing games to movies. In the worst case this results in a criticism where the game is good in the ways it is like a movie and bad in the ways it is unlike a movie. Citizen Kane wasn't even all that good. It was just liked by the people who invented film criticism.
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Oct 7, 2018 04:41
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You know what people should compare games to? Music. Everyone's asking for the Citizen Kane of video games. Find me the Pet Sounds.
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Oct 7, 2018 04:43
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