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Jekyll and Hyde posted:Plot holes don't matter This. Obviously reasonable people can disagree, but I hate the idea of "plot holes" because they seem like yet another symptom of the plague of trying to Wikipedia-ify art, as if a movie or TV show is somehow a window into a fully existing alternate reality, and that reality has some sort of objective thing to measure against. What we see in art is what we get. It's not real, and it shouldn't need to be.
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Oct 9, 2018 15:55
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plot holes can matter if they are obvious enough to take you out of a film or expose really lazy writing. they don't inherently matter, though, and whether they do matter is something that should be talked about on a case-by-case basis, not a blanket determination either way.
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Oct 9, 2018 16:00
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How about we agree plotholes matter but nevertheless internet people are weird about them?
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Oct 9, 2018 16:03
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Jekyll and Hyde posted:my favorite plot hole is the sarlacc pit It’s my favorite plot hole because it’s scary and yet I want to look at it for some reason. I desire it and am disgusted. It’s confusing, like those flowers Georgia O’Keefe painted. Nothing else has had the same effect on me.
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Oct 9, 2018 16:28
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Plot holes are inavoidable, but you shouldn't let them build up.
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Oct 9, 2018 16:31
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Waffles Inc. posted:This. Yeah! M. John Harrison posted:Every moment of a science fiction story must represent the triumph of writing over worldbuilding.
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Oct 9, 2018 16:32
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Remember that time Doug Walker killed the Nostalgia Critic by driving him into a plot hole? Also I agree with that guy's point about 1080p. My Nep LP, even though its basically a visual novel 75% of the time, is still in 1080p. Go back to the stone age!
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Oct 9, 2018 16:32
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It's fair to criticise a plot hole or whatever, but the general attitude around them in modern media criticism seems to be a hunt for plot holes so you can prove how much smarter than some fictional work you are rather than engaging with the work in any other way. It's a bit tedious really.
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Oct 9, 2018 16:53
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plot holes are bad. the problem is most "plot holes" aren't.
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Oct 9, 2018 16:55
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Groovelord Neato posted:plot holes are bad. the problem is most "plot holes" aren't. Sometimes its fine to allow a plot hole if permitting it helps the flow of a movie in a way that fixing it doesn't
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Oct 9, 2018 16:57
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hell is men wearing fedoras pointing out all the inconsistencies in a scene that was written to convey how the protagonist is losing their grip on reality
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Oct 9, 2018 16:57
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there's a website dedicated to "plot holes" and it's cinema sins level stupid. a lot of them are characters making mistakes or things that are just the plot.
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Oct 9, 2018 16:59
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Plot holes should be criticized in the same way that background music or sound effects are. It's obnoxious to Cinema Sins a plothole in the same way it's obnoxious to point out every single time a stock sound is used. However it's perfectly fine to say "this big inconsistency totally took me out of the movie" in the same way that it's fine to complain about them playing buttrock during what's supposed to be a serious down to earth scene.
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Oct 9, 2018 17:00
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FoldableHuman posted:Also why are we spoilering a dead game that came out seven years ago? We already cruelly spoiled Infinity War casually like 2 months after it came out and yelled about that movie, before poor Jekyll and Hyde could see it for himself. And he didn't deserve that. He's been nothing but polite in here.
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Oct 9, 2018 17:04
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It can be fun or funny when things happen in movies that don’t make sense, but why complain about them? Movies are a way of telling a story with pictures. If they’re at all charming or good, it should be endearing to see the seams. Isn’t that the whole point of so-bad-that-it’s-good? And if they suck then that’s for other, bigger reasons and who cares?
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Oct 9, 2018 17:07
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RareAcumen posted:We already cruelly spoiled Infinity War casually like 2 months after it came out and yelled about that movie, before poor Jekyll and Hyde could see it for himself. And he didn't deserve that. He's been nothing but polite in here. her, for the record
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Oct 9, 2018 17:09
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business hammocks posted:It can be fun or funny when things happen in movies that don’t make sense, but why complain about them? Movies are a way of telling a story with pictures. If they’re at all charming or good, it should be endearing to see the seams. Isn’t that the whole point of so-bad-that-it’s-good?
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Oct 9, 2018 17:11
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Max Wilco posted:Plot holes are inavoidable, but you shouldn't let them build up. a cartoon duck posted:It's fair to criticise a plot hole or whatever, but the general attitude around them in modern media criticism seems to be a hunt for plot holes so you can prove how much smarter than some fictional work you are rather than engaging with the work in any other way. It's a bit tedious really. this is my stance on it too. You don't win some prize going 'is this supposed to be some kind of MAGIC xylophone????' when the answer is just 'yea man it doesn't really matter' but yea stories can be hurt if plot holes pile up and just leave the audience confused or annoyed. Basically we don't have to see every element of the story get a three act storyline resolution but there is a line where a story can be harmed by NOTHING getting a proper explanation
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Oct 9, 2018 17:11
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Terrible Opinions posted:It's probably brain damage from watching too much sci-fi but I think it really comes down to how much the show itself cares about its plot mechanics. Like Star Wars doesn't care, but Voyager will spend an entire episode explaining its dumb plot mechanics to you then blatantly violent them before the episode runtime is over. Yeah, like I watched Phenomena and Annihilation this weekend, and both of those run on insane-o dream logic for the most part, but I buy it much more easily in Annihilation because most of Phenomena tries to ground itself in being a murder-mystery with elements of science fiction before it goes all out bananas, so it's weird when Jennifer Connolly just kind of wordlessly wanders away from the police detective and laconically strolls through a long hallway of phantasmagorical rooms while he's strangling the killer to death, whereas in Annihilation events just get strung together with dream logic from pretty much the first event and so it's a strength rather than a car-crash genre shift. But suddenly I'm talking about style and theme and not just the technical elements of storytelling. Yeah, I would agree that Voyager announces that its technology will be rule-bound and the stories will follow those rules and then you see writers, directors, and actors just not giving a poo poo about delivering on that promise because they care more about hotboxing in the shuttle model between takes.
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Oct 9, 2018 17:21
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a thumbnail featuring something unusual in a suit, definitely one I want to watch and not at all a massive red flag the video title and subject matter, also, not a giant red flag
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Oct 9, 2018 17:51
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Dabir posted:a thumbnail featuring something unusual in a suit, definitely one I want to watch and not at all a massive red flag Something unusual in a suit looking disgruntled. If you had a thumbnail that was like a happy puppy in a suit I would be clicking that poo poo on general principle.
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Oct 9, 2018 17:55
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Dabir posted:a thumbnail featuring something unusual in a suit, definitely one I want to watch and not at all a massive red flag You mean you don't want to watch Flash-Animated Sir Rational Tophat Cravat Dreamworks Smirk absolutely DESTROY Feminism with LOGIC SJW Fail?
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Oct 9, 2018 18:03
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Top Hat Gaming Man being the exception, of course.
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Oct 9, 2018 18:06
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Kim Justice posted:Top Hat Gaming Man being the exception, of course. bold of you to declare top hat gaming man as a singular
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Oct 9, 2018 18:09
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FoldableHuman posted:The failure of his arc kinda comes down to the fact that 90% of the game is really just the prologue to the epilogue where you play the actual protagonist. idk. just because some people might want to play it blind. the main story is alright. its just weird pacing/time wise, like you said. anyway. plot holes are fine for the most part but if they stack together to much in a movie or gently caress up a critical theme/moment, they can hurt a piece of media.
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Oct 9, 2018 18:09
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None of the womanhater crowd are doing a bit with their be-suited animated avatars. Those are literally their idealized selves: bathed and wearing a suit that fits.
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Oct 9, 2018 18:09
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BOOSness Hammocks posted:Those are literally their idealized selves: bathed and wearing a suit that fits.
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Oct 9, 2018 18:10
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Puppy Time posted:Something unusual in a suit looking disgruntled. Y'know what always cracks me up? The whole dog-head pantomime schtick. It's great.
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Oct 9, 2018 18:12
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yeah, youtubers who use a well dressed avatars and say they're really logical are so chuddy. Remember that one youtuber who made some kind of nerd avatar out of cardboard boxes and talked about how he's so smart and he thinks about movies and video games, had some kind of logic nerd name like "recyclable human", bet he was a chud. Fine to say that you won't watch a video but don't make poo poo up about videos you don't watch and use it as objective fact. I watched the video. Used some memes but seemed fine. Didn't hate women and was not even insulting, did not take for granted the viewers trust of him, it was fine. He carefully defines what he means and gives the original video a fair shake. Maybe his other videos are worse. The original "shut up about plot holes" was already a pretty rear end in a top hat vid anyway. I could really imagine that if the poster who shared it liked this vid, he'd be pretty disheartened at people calling the person who made it a chud without watching the video itself, I imagine he would not do such a terrible and annoying thing, can you imagine, say, being unable to stop calling a tv show creator a horrible alt righter despite having never watched it and being told by people who have that you are getting points about it completely wrong, that would feel really terrible. Doesn't the OP have a rule against grasping at straws. Can't the thread talk about positive videos they like or about when a video creator does something right for more than four posts instead of talking about tweets from people they hate for tens of pages and burying any good videos people post.
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Oct 9, 2018 18:44
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People who whine about plot holes should try and make a movie. Or be actually creative instead of critical. Just specifically those people. They’re really boring.
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Oct 9, 2018 18:50
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CelticPredator posted:People who whine about plot holes should try and make a movie. Or be actually creative instead of critical. Doug Walker made like three of the goddamned things and look how that turned out.
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Oct 9, 2018 18:51
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But it was hell.
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Oct 9, 2018 18:55
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CelticPredator posted:People who whine about plot holes should try and make a movie. Or be actually creative instead of critical. I can agree that the modern definition is generous and nine times out of ten it's just people trying to look smart. But then it gets really frustrating if you felt like a movie does not make sense and then just get told "you're looking for plot holes" when you try to explain that. Foldable Human, Jenny Nicholson, and Lindsay Ellis have all made videos about movies they felt were dumb and did not make sense. They just didn't give them "10 plot holes in suicide squad" titles. Under "Shut up about Plot Holes" man's definitions, they were wrong to make those videos anyway.
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Oct 9, 2018 18:56
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The Shut Up About Plot Holes video wouldn't have been so bad if it wasn't so condescending. I still wouldn't have agreed with what he was saying, but I would have respected his opinion at the very least. Instead he tried to tell me that I'm watching movies "wrong", and acted like anyone who notices a plot hole is just a nitpicker on the level of Cinemasins. It's okay to not be bothered by plot holes, if that's how you watch movies. There really is no wrong way to do so, after all. However a lot of us like to suspend our disbelief and imagine that what we're seeing onscreen is real, if only for a while. Some errors are unavoidable in a film because no art is perfect, but big, glaring ones damage that suspension of disbelief and make it harder to immerse yourself in the movie's world. They don't ruin the movie completely unless they're especially bad, but they do detract from the experience. Bakeneko fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Oct 9, 2018 |
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Oct 9, 2018 19:02
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The problem is, people don't know what a plot hole is, so they effectively ruined how people talk about them. The reason The Predator is kind of bad isn't because it's filled with plot holes. It's because it was re-cut, re-edited at the last minute and added a whole new 3rd act which didn't make any sense, but they did it because they needed some kind of hunting sequence in a Predator movie. Then they basically re-wrote the macguffin to something random and silly because they probably didn't have enough time to come up with something better. So you get this film that feels alright at first, but then sinks deeper into nonsense as the film goes on. I read the script. It wasn't that insane. (although the autism stuff was yeesh)
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Oct 9, 2018 19:06
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there are bad ways to watch movies. And it's to be someone who just points out the flaws. if that is how you watch movies, and the only way you watch movies, I want you to actually make some art, so you understand how hard it is. Everyone else, feel free to bitch about movies sometimes.
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Oct 9, 2018 19:07
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CelticPredator posted:there are bad ways to watch movies. And it's to be someone who just points out the flaws. That's more of a bad way to talk about movies.
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Oct 9, 2018 19:10
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*watches captain america* "no human can jump that high!"
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Oct 9, 2018 19:12
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I like movies that have some kind of consistent interal logic. Or if they break it, its at least for a nice surprise. Like when Hot Rod became Rodimus Prime.
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Oct 9, 2018 19:16
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CelticPredator posted:*watches captain america* Not sure what point you're trying to make there. Nobody is arguing that things like superhuman powers are plot holes just because they're unrealistic. We can accept unrealistic elements in story as long as they remain internally consistent within that story's universe. Now if, for example, Steve Rogers was shown doing superhuman stuff before being injected with the serum, then that would be a plot hole because the movie explicitly says that's where his powers come from. It wouldn't necessarily be a problem, because it's a superhero movie and you can forgive that sort of thing to a certain extent, but it would be notable.
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Oct 9, 2018 19:23
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