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Ibram Gaunt posted:Fate sucked cuz Saber isn't good as a main heroine. She's boring as hell when put in the spotlight. Much better when she's more off to the side and is able to do whatever. die
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Oct 10, 2018 23:18
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Trihugger posted:I'm pretty sure Zero has less respect for it's female characters than FSN does. So it's wierd you would criticize one, but not the other for that point. Very possible, the production values might have just clouded my views in that case. It's much easier to see the character flaws when they're in print in the VN.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:22
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Ccs posted:Very possible, the production values might have just clouded my views in that case. It's much easier to see the character flaws when they're in print in the VN. you're very good at observing media.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:24
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lol you're treating this dating simulator where king arthur is a teenage girl like some kind of work of great literature. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 10, 2018 23:25
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Ccs posted:lol you're treating this dating simulator where king arthur is a teenage girl like some kind of work of great literature. who's doing that?
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Oct 10, 2018 23:26
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Ccs posted:lol you're treating this dating simulator where king arthur is a teenage girl like some kind of work of great literature. i hate that you ninja edited your previous post where you said the same thing but wrote it like "i can't believe you are defending the game where you cook and have sex with king arthur" because i was going to make fun of you by saying "heh i don't remember any cannibalism"
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Oct 10, 2018 23:26
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I'm starting to believe that Ccs did not enter this conversation in particularly good faith.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:27
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I wish I was as cool as the dude who said something stupid and then had to triple down instead of admitting fault.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:27
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*sets up a "You must be this smart to enter thread" sign* *is immediately dragged away by bouncer*
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Oct 10, 2018 23:28
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Yeah i didn't want to be too mean so I edited it out. Anyway lets just let this go. I think the VN is badly written, boring and trashy but I like the production values in the adaptions and think they're entertaining. If you got something good out of playing the VN good for you, it wasn't for me. Sorry for being a jerk about a thing you like. Nate RFB posted:I'm starting to believe that Ccs did not enter this conversation in particularly good faith. I was severely underwhelmed by the VN and expressed surprise that two anime series I enjoyed came out of that. I'm a bit annoyed about the time I spent playing parts of the VN though. Ccs fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Oct 10, 2018 |
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Oct 10, 2018 23:29
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lol
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Oct 10, 2018 23:30
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Nothing wrong with just watching the flashy servant fights, they're pretty awesome.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:34
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the only thing I watch over and over is kiritsugu vs kirei
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Oct 10, 2018 23:37
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Nate RFB posted:I'm starting to believe that Ccs did not enter this conversation in particularly good faith. I mean you should've realized this when he refused to call the main character by his actual name in any conversation that involved them. Ccs posted:Yeah i didn't want to be too mean so I edited it out. When given a chance to actually verbalize your lovely opinions in a way that you could potentially try to respect the people in this thread you decided to triple down and continue insulting them, gently caress off out of my thread.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:38
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you know you could have just played the version of the vn where you don’t have sex right
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Oct 10, 2018 23:39
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*watches f/z where nearly every woman exists solely as a plot device to further the development of men* this is art *reads 1% of f/sn where women largely exist on their own terms with their own motivations and goals* sexist trash People aren't dumping on you because they're mindless fans, your opinions just loving suck. It's funny because Nasu himself was aware of the critiques people had over the sexism in his writing for Tsukihime and Fate and has engaged them in pretty good faith by changing how he writes his women characters, but you haven't even taken the bare minimum of effort to engage with the work honestly.
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Oct 10, 2018 23:45
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ccs more like pee pee rear end
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Oct 10, 2018 23:49
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Stairmaster posted:ccs more like pee pee rear end 
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Oct 10, 2018 23:51
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Ccs posted:/ I disagree entirely with the mindset you express in this thread. What you get out of a work is an engagement between the medium and you, the viewer. There's not some objective metric of quality that can be measured by your enjoyment of a story. You aren't an impartial scale. You're a person with lived experiences and a unique personality and will tune into different parts of a work from other people. You act like this visual novel and its King Arthur sex scenes are beneath you but it's resonated deeply with countless people. You don't have to like things just because other people do, but if you afford them the respect of listening to their opinions, maybe you'll be able to enjoy more nuanced conversation than "hello, serfdom. you are eating poo poo. oh, have i offended you? goodbye then."
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Oct 10, 2018 23:53
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Fate/Stay Night's depiction of its female characters is honestly pretty good. They all have personalities and goals and a good amount of screentime, a lot of time is dedicated to their inner workings and motivations, even side characters like Medea. They're all actively pushing the story along, at least in a couple of routes or instances. I guess Medea's 'I want to be a wife' shtick can be a little off, but considering her character and the fact that none of the other female characters in the story really have that going on, it feels more like just a personality trait of hers than any kind of weird biotruthism. Plenty of women in real life have that as a goal or dream of theirs. Shirou's a bit of a idiot, but minus one mistranslated line, he never crosses the line from 'well-meaning idiot' to 'actively malicious,' and it's clearly something he gets over going by his trust and faith in Rin and Saber. And the game goes out of its way to have big scenes between two women that actually get paid off, like Rin and Sakura's bit at the end of Heaven's Feel. The only character who really lacks for agency is Sakura, but her lack of agency is the point of her character arc. F/SN isn't like, perfect or feminist in its portrayal of women, but compared to even stuff people hold up as pretty good for action anime/manga, like Fullmetal Alchemist, it's leaps and bounds ahead. And obviously it blows western action movies out of the water. Compare to Fate/Zero, where of the female cast, literally every single character is sacrificed - again, literally - to Kiritsugu's manpain. Saber might not die, but she impacts the story so little that even she is functionally sacrificed to Kiritsugu's 'arc,' and Sola-Ui only differs in that Kiritsugu doesn't care about her and she's killed to emphasize that fact, versus being killed to emphasize that he does care about her. Fate/Zero is literally incapable of developing Kiritsugu's character without killing a woman. Every single emotional beat he has, every single personality trait, is created or shown by the death of a woman. I'm not exaggerating. Literally every single one. Saber and Irisviel even get a decent back and forth in the early episodes, but they drop that thread almost completely for the sake of, you guessed it, Kiritsugu. Fate/Zero is literally the insanely sexist screed people pretend Fate/Stay Night is. Endorph fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Oct 11, 2018 |
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Oct 11, 2018 00:02
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Endorph posted:Fate/Stay Night's depiction of its female characters is honestly pretty good. They all have personalities and goals and a good amount of screentime, a lot of time is dedicated to their inner workings and motivations, even side characters like Medea. They're all actively pushing the story along, at least in a couple of routes or instances. I guess Medea's 'I want to be a wife' shtick can be a little off, but considering her character and the fact that none of the other female characters in the story really have that going on, it feels more like just a personality trait of hers than any kind of weird biotruthism. Plenty of women in real life have that as a goal or dream of theirs. Plus it's not exactly something Nasu pulled out of nowhere, since her myth revolves around a marriage that she proposed and that failed catastrophically. A lot of the Servants in F/SN basically want a do-over on the ways in which their original lives went to poo poo, so her motivation fits in with that.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:14
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W.T. Fits posted:The Einzberns want the ritual to succeed because they want to reach the Root so they can reacquire the Third Magic. Nah, the second, third and fourth magic were created as methods to reach the Root, not as results of reaching it. The ritual IS the Third Magic.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:16
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Space Flower posted:I disagree entirely with the mindset you express in this thread. What you get out of a work is an engagement between the medium and you, the viewer. There's not some objective metric of quality that can be measured by your enjoyment of a story. You aren't an impartial scale. You're a person with lived experiences and a unique personality and will tune into different parts of a work from other people. No I totally get that. It's all a personal opinion. I honestly thought more people shared my opinion though, and that the thread title wasn't totally ironic. I see now that most people really liked the VN and thought it was good. Which ...okay. I don't share your tastes.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:22
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Yet you continue to ignore people pointing out you intentionally misreading and misreading scenes
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Oct 11, 2018 00:25
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Endorph posted:. Every single emotional beat he has, every single personality trait, is created or shown by the death of a woman. I'm not exaggerating. Literally every single one. Not arguing with the point as a whole but there was Kerry shooting his dad. 
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Oct 11, 2018 00:54
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Dr Pepper posted:Not arguing with the point as a whole but there was Kerry shooting his dad. That all started with whats her name vampirefying though.
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Oct 11, 2018 00:57
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Galaga Galaxian posted:That all started with whats her name vampirefying though. 
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Oct 11, 2018 01:04
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Dr Pepper posted:Not arguing with the point as a whole but there was Kerry shooting his dad. that just serves Endorph's point. Kerry feels nothing for his dad and shoots him in cold blood, completely stone-faced. His memories of Shirley playing through his head in that moment are his emotional stake.
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Oct 11, 2018 01:10
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Space Flower posted:that just serves Endorph's point. Kerry feels nothing for his dad and shoots him in cold blood, completely stone-faced. His memories of Shirley playing through his head in that moment are his emotional stake.
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Oct 11, 2018 01:19
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Ccs needs to pay me fgo money
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Oct 11, 2018 02:09
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Thuryl posted:Plus it's not exactly something Nasu pulled out of nowhere, since her myth revolves around a marriage that she proposed and that failed catastrophically. A lot of the Servants in F/SN basically want a do-over on the ways in which their original lives went to poo poo, so her motivation fits in with that. A lot of the Caster class Servants have a thing where they either get deeply attached to their Masters or they betray their Masters, or, occasionally, both. Medea manages to do both, obs. Tamamo wants to be a wife too, and gets super attached to Hakuno in the Extraverse. Gilles and Ryuunosuke. Nursery Rhyme and Alice. CCC spoilers: Hans both hates and is attracted to Kiara, and semi-betrays her. Prototype/Fragments spoilers: Paracelsus befriends and then betrays Misaya and her father, and is still grieving about it in FGO Apo spoilers: Avicebron betrays his Master and also reveals in FGO that he feels hugely guilty about it. I'm not as clear about Shakespeare's deal, but wasn't there something about how he was basically in it for the ~drama~ and wouldn't hesitate to screw his Master over if it made for a better story? FGO Lostbelt 01 spoilers: Anastasia and Kadoc are very attached to each other, to the point where Ana takes a bullet for him and dies.
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Oct 11, 2018 02:55
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Endorph posted:Fate/Stay Night's depiction of its female characters is honestly pretty good. They all have personalities and goals and a good amount of screentime, a lot of time is dedicated to their inner workings and motivations, even side characters like Medea. They're all actively pushing the story along, at least in a couple of routes or instances. I guess Medea's 'I want to be a wife' shtick can be a little off, but considering her character and the fact that none of the other female characters in the story really have that going on, it feels more like just a personality trait of hers than any kind of weird biotruthism. Plenty of women in real life have that as a goal or dream of theirs. I thought the deal with Medea was that she was just looking for a place to belong and people that actually care for her and that the whole marriage aspect is played up in things like Carnival Phantasm for comedic effect.
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Oct 11, 2018 03:13
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Medea wants to be a wife cause she gets a cute jacket out of it
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Oct 11, 2018 03:55
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Hunt11 posted:I thought the deal with Medea was that she was just looking for a place to belong and people that actually care for her and that the whole marriage aspect is played up in things like Carnival Phantasm for comedic effect. She fell in love with Kuzuki hard and pretended to be his fiancee as their cover at the temple. She wouldn't ask him to marry her *for real*, but had things gone on she'd have surely moved ahead with the wedding and then played the part of wife on the pretext of their cover story.
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Oct 11, 2018 04:04
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The writing might be awakward in places, but goddamn does Nasu know how to write action scenes. The visuals and music of the VN enhance them really well too. For all the meandering quiet parts, when things get into high gear I literally couldn't stare away from my screen. Also creepy atmospheric scenes.
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Oct 11, 2018 04:04
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The Hollow/Ataraxia bridge fight is loving amazing.
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Oct 11, 2018 04:13
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MonsieurChoc posted:The Hollow/Ataraxia bridge fight is loving amazing. I usually can't read fight scenes because they tend to try to describe cool poo poo that falls flat on its rear end but the bridge fight in Hollow Ataraxia was definitely sick.
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Oct 11, 2018 04:33
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kuzuki has a powerful dick and knows how to use it this is canon
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Oct 11, 2018 05:06
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Compendium posted:I usually can't read fight scenes because they tend to try to describe cool poo poo that falls flat on its rear end but the bridge fight in Hollow Ataraxia was definitely sick. Yeah, it's really hard to write good fight scenes and I feel it's a skill Nasu has. At least they tend to be more hit than miss.
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Oct 11, 2018 05:19
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MonsieurChoc posted:Yeah, it's really hard to write good fight scenes and I feel it's a skill Nasu has. At least they tend to be more hit than miss. Yeah it's honestly a surprising amount of hype from written words. Especially the end of Heavens Feel. Like the whole last third.
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Oct 11, 2018 05:41
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