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Just because the majority of people support it doesn't mean it's necessarily the best way to get UHC.
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Oct 19, 2018 04:44
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CelestialScribe posted:Just because the majority of people support it doesn't mean it's necessarily the best way to get UHC. It is the best way, the only argument against it is that it's "going too far" and we need to appeal to moderates with a middle-of-the-road market-based solution or else Republicans will call us commies. And anyway, Skex didn't argue that M4A wasn't the best policy-wise, he said that Democrats mustn't openly support it because it's unpopular.
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Oct 19, 2018 04:54
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https://twitter.com/AlexThomasDC/status/1053102349697409024
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Oct 19, 2018 05:01
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It's like watching your grandparents try to set up a webcam lmao
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Oct 19, 2018 05:18
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C'mon TED
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Oct 19, 2018 05:21
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It's the SNL skit from two weeks ago.
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Oct 19, 2018 05:24
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Badger of Basra posted:This might all be true if he wins. If he loses there’s no way he’s a credible presidential candidate. Lincoln lost the senate race that put him on the national map. Nixon lost a presidential race and then a governor's race. You can come back from a loss and win the presidency if you're good and you're lucky.
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Oct 19, 2018 09:10
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Skex posted:This is why the left is politically dead in the U.S. people like you don't have a clue how to actually politic. *looks around at all the seats the dems have lost in the last 10-15 years* yes please teach people how races are actually won by the real adults in the room who know how to politic 
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Oct 19, 2018 12:55
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Marxalot posted:*looks around at all the seats the dems have lost in the last 10-15 years* Yeah, I wonder how they'd square that peg.
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Oct 19, 2018 14:28
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CelestialScribe posted:Just because the majority of people support it doesn't mean it's necessarily the best way to get UHC. but it does mean it is literally a winning issue to campaign on and handwringing over it is based entirely on believing republican propaganda that no one wants it.
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Oct 19, 2018 14:47
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"If Beto runs on M4A he'll get called a far left socialist!" *the right runs countless ads calling him a far left socialist anyway* "Ah, well then."
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Oct 19, 2018 14:48
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https://twitter.com/PatrickSvitek/status/1052555040945307649 He's already running on Medicaid expansion and UHC Also who was that Wolf Pussy guy a rereg of
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Oct 19, 2018 14:52
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zoux posted:
Right so not what he campaigned on in the primary. I find this argument very baffling. He's tacking to the center, objectively that is what he is doing. If you want to argue it's good or at least isn't a problem fine, but denying it's happening at all is just dead wrong.
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Oct 19, 2018 15:48
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IMO, why vote, Cruz and Beto are exactly the same, if you think about it.
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Oct 19, 2018 15:53
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As much as I love talking about how Beto is a Republican,  early voting starts Monday! Here is some information for y’all: When is it? Election Day is November 6. Early voting can run from October 22 through November 2, though this depends on the county you’re in whether they use the full time. Travis County does and I imagine most other large counties do as well, but be sure to check! Your county’s election website will have a list of all early and Election Day voting locations and hours. What will I be voting on? Check vote411.org for a sample ballot, but this will not include all local races. For an insanely detailed list of every race in your region, check the League of Women Voters. They have local chapters (like LWV Dallas and LWV Austin) which prepare the voter guides. What about voter ID? You may have heard that the Lege passed a law that stated that a voter must present one of 7 approved forms of photo ID to vote. However, a 2016 court order stated that a registered voter must be allowed to vote if they sign a declaration stating why they do not have one of the seven forms and provide another type of supporting documentation. Per Travis County, here are the 7 approved forms of photo ID: -Texas Driver License issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS) -Texas Election Identification Certificate (EIC) issued by DPS -Texas Personal Identification Card issued by DPS -Texas License to Carry a Handgun (LTC) issued by DPS -U.S. Military ID Card containing the person’s photograph -U.S. Citizenship Certificate containing the person’s photograph -U.S. Passport Here are the types of supporting documentation you can use if you don’t have one of the seven approved IDs above: -Valid Voter Registration Certificate -Certified Birth Certificate (must be an original) -Copy of or original current utility bill -Copy of or original bank statement -Copy of or original government check -Copy of or original paycheck -Copy of or original government document with your name and an address (original required if it contains a photograph)
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Oct 19, 2018 16:07
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https://twitter.com/justinjm1/status/1053292316285460480
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Oct 19, 2018 16:11
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Also important to note that if you don't have ID and present one of the seven alternate forms, the affidavit requires you to state the nature of the hardship that prevents you from having a photo ID. The elections officials cannot challenge the validity or truthfulness of the hardship. If you put "didn't feel like it", you still get to cast a regular ballot. Not having ID will not legally prevent you from casting a full ballot, and make sure you let your friends and family know this.
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Oct 19, 2018 16:11
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zoux posted:Cruz and Beto are exactly the same, if you think about it. No they are not
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Oct 19, 2018 16:15
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VitalSigns posted:No they are not You are right, so why are you arguing in a way that supports Cruz?
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Oct 19, 2018 16:20
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Oh hey, a Castro! I was wondering what they were up to.
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Oct 19, 2018 16:30
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Is there polling on what people think about universal health care, not Medicare For All? Because I somehow doubt the people being asked whether support it in that poll are coming at it from "Having considered both Sanders' and Conyer's bills as well other as other UHC options, I do believe that M4A is the only feasible path" and not just "Hell yeah, I want universal healthcare and I'm gonna say yes to any plan that moves towards it".
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Oct 19, 2018 16:54
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Skex posted:You are right, so why are you arguing in a way that supports Cruz? I'm not? You asked me why I don't think Beto is a good choice for President, not whether he'd be a better Senator than Cruz
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Oct 19, 2018 16:55
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Skex posted:You are right, so why are you arguing in a way that supports Cruz? shut the gently caress up with this 'saying beto isn't perfect is basically saying vote cruz'. In what loving world is 'yea it sucks that beto thinks we need to literally put people to death for 'assaulting' cops considering how meaningless that term really is' a pro cruz statement? Do you think any of us think cruz has a more left position there?
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Oct 19, 2018 16:57
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1stGear posted:Is there polling on what people think about universal health care, not Medicare For All? Because I somehow doubt the people being asked whether support it in that poll are coming at it from "Having considered both Sanders' and Conyer's bills as well other as other UHC options, I do believe that M4A is the only feasible path" and not just "Hell yeah, I want universal healthcare and I'm gonna say yes to any plan that moves towards it". I think it's actually different. There's so many UHC plans that people probably support the concept of UHC less than M4A because they're not sure what plan is being talked about or what it means (for instance, does UHC mean single-payer or universal "access"?). People understand Medicare though. It's one of the most popular government programs, and everyone has a loved one who is benefiting from it. I think the enormous support for M4A reflects that more than a desire for universal health care. Medicare isn't tarnished by arguments over who deserves it; it just goes to all old people and we generally recognize that old people have to be taken care of. You say "universal health care" and the lizard brain of conservatives kicks in and starts going "but that means blacks!"
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Oct 19, 2018 17:00
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This is by far the most that UHC, single payer, M4A or whatever you want to call it has been in the national discourse as far as I can recall. That's good, and it's all because the ACA became immensenly popular once the GOP tried to kill it lmao. Anyway, any policy proposal from the stump is gonna get massively changed through the legislative process so I'm fine with the broad strokes and getting people used to the idea of government sponsored healthcare for everybody.
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Oct 19, 2018 17:04
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zoux posted:I'm fine with the broad strokes and getting people used to the idea of government sponsored healthcare for everybody. That was the Obama 2008 campaign and instead we got government-subsidized private healthcare for some, if you can afford the out-of-pocket costs to use it. And then we got hammered in the elections because it wasn't what was promised. I find this discussion strange. Every time someone on this forum complains about Obama stabbing us in the back and letting insurance companies write the bill, there's a whole chorus of "well he was never that progressive anyway, people should have looked at his voting record, people should have paid attention to the details instead of projecting what they wanted onto his vague platitudes and broad strokes, if you wanted true UHC you should have supported someone else, you should have analyzed policy before the primaries too late to complain now". Okay fine so now we're doing that, looking at a candidate's voting history, looking at how his rhetoric changes, going past the broad strokes and vague platitudes and looking at the details (or lack thereof) of the actual policy he supports, and suddenly no we shouldn't do that, that's purity testing, that's supporting Republicans, why can't you just stop paying attention to what candidates say and do, just project all your dreams onto the vague platitudes and detail-free broad strokes you heard in a stump speech once.
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Oct 19, 2018 17:23
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Ah, nm
zoux fucked around with this message at 17:46 on Oct 19, 2018 |
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Oct 19, 2018 17:28
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Skex posted:You are right, so why are you arguing in a way that supports Cruz? Any kind of disagreement is not undermining, and you posting garbage like this says a lot about you. Like, several people have already put up with your pathetic, lovely insults, people have patiently replied to without resorting to insults. I sincerely hope that five minutes after you vote, you get into a serious wreck close to a T1 unit where you can be parted out for organs to nicer, more deserving people, like a serial nose picker or somebody who keeps on peeing in the gym showers or something. VitalSigns posted:That was the Obama 2008 campaign and instead we got government-subsidized private healthcare for some, if you can afford the out-of-pocket costs to use it. And then we got hammered in the elections because it wasn't what was promised. So much this. Beto is an improvement over Mr. Incest-porn carpetbagger jagoff Cruz, that's all the reason I need to vote for him. But to pretend that he's some great savior is fundamentally the lazy and comfortable pretending they can go back to their lives and go "la la la we FIXED THINGS, nothing more needs to be done". He is better, but he isn't good, or a far enough step to keep things from going to pot over the next few decades. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 19, 2018 17:54
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Those who are more center than I deserve death.
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Oct 19, 2018 17:57
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zoux posted:Those who are more center than I deserve death. Nah, I just want to get in on being lovely to people after dealing with them being unrepentant jerks. I don't actually wish death on people. But of course, you just want to enjoy some righteous indignation as well. Stop huffing your farts.
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Oct 19, 2018 17:59
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"I sincerely hope you die, poster about 2 clicks to the center of me" is not good praxis.
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Oct 19, 2018 18:01
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zoux posted:"I sincerely hope you die, poster about 2 clicks to the center of me" is not good praxis. "Shut up and get in line or you are helping the enemy" isn't either. Nor is the continual insulting.
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Oct 19, 2018 18:07
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The Dipshit posted:Any kind of disagreement is not undermining, and you posting garbage like this says a lot about you. Like, several people have already put up with your pathetic, lovely insults, people have patiently replied to without resorting to insults. I sincerely hope that five minutes after you vote, you get into a serious wreck close to a T1 unit where you can be parted out for organs to nicer, more deserving people, like a serial nose picker or somebody who keeps on peeing in the gym showers or something. Ah I see your problem. You are looking for a savior. Sorry that's not going to happen. I'm looking for a good, good mind you, not perfect candidate. Beto has the qualities that gather support, he appears to have his heart in the right place and his policy positions are consistent with what I consider to be a good platform. He raises money on a level rivaling Obama and let's not discount that as an important factor also the media loves him. Based on his comments during the debate last night it may all be a moot point then again pretty much every Senate candidate ever has sworn that they'd complete their term but we forgive them every damned time because it we liked them enough to make them our Senator we sure as gently caress aren't going to dislike them as President. You are looking for a savior I'm looking for someone who is shares my general vision and goals even if they don't get there in exactly the way I want. For what it's worth I actually believe that Obama was closer to campaign Obama in personal beliefs, however I think that he recognized that there were limits to what he could accomplish. I think he was wrong on a number of tactical points and I will believe until my dying breath that bringing Ram loving Emanuel was perhaps the single dumbest move he made in his entire presidency. The problem is that you and the Dems are bad brigade keep asking for something that just doesn't fit how the left operates. You see the Republicans doing a thing successfully and want to see the to see the Democrats emulating them. However you ignore that you're talking about a different group of people who have vastly different cognitive processes from Republican voters. You also completely ignore the larger context of the environment within which we are operating. One where the capitalists have a stranglehold on the media and thus are able to guide and twist the public narrative against us. Hell I was listening to NPR on the way to work and they had a brief blurb about the CNN townhall that pretty much just said that Beto regretted calling Cruz lying Ted, gone was any context of the remark, gone was the explanation for why he did it in the first place (to avoid having to answer each of Ted's Gish galloping distortions one at a time) an explanation that was intelligent and considered was reduced to what was essentially "Weak Dem Beto backs down attack" which was not even close to an accurate representation of the event. That's the environment we are operating in, Now the truth is that I agree with you that he'd be better served by just sticking with a full throated endorsement of MFA and go at this accusations full on, however I can't fault the man for making a tactical decision that I don't necessarily agree with. I mean hell he's still the only candidate to straight up say that he believes that there is more than enough evidence already to justify impeaching Trump. Leaning right into an attack that both the Republican's and the national party think is a winning issue for the GOP (I think that they are wrong) but you're pissed off that he's not pushing a particular policy that is at least 2 years from even being on the table for consideration. I will say one thing to bear in mind in this discussion. We're rando's on the internet, He's running the first credible competitive statewide campaign as a Democrat in a state that hasn't elected a Democrat to Statewide office for 3 decades. I'm willing to concede that maybe he has a pretty good idea of what he's doing.
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Oct 19, 2018 18:35
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1053338516501889025
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Oct 19, 2018 18:35
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Both shutup. Beto frankly would be a milqtoast lib. But he's a milqtoast lib from texas. Him winning would be a slap in the face to all the people who say you need fuckers like Bresdan andMachin to win in the south. That is great. Like Beto is pretty much a Booker. But then that means that people from bluer states now can be pressured if red states can produce Beto we can ask why a blue state can't produce someone at least as good as him. Also, great to see Cruz lose.
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Oct 19, 2018 18:36
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Trump projecting Beto on a bat signal is wonderful. More donations his way.
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Oct 19, 2018 18:37
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guys i was going to vote for beto but i read someone itt posting that beto backed off of medicare for all so im going to vote for ted cruz and get all my family to do the same. im definitely a real person
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Oct 19, 2018 18:38
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Nonsense posted:Trump projecting Beto on a bat signal is wonderful. More donations his way. I think he also called Ted Cruz fat
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Oct 19, 2018 18:39
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Skex posted:Ah I see your problem. You are looking for a savior. Sorry that's not going to happen.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:05
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Considering where Texas is on the political spectrum and the usual quality of candidates both in Texas and similarly leaning states I have a hard time finding grounds to not call Beto a Savior.
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Oct 19, 2018 19:14
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