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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Thor is still a redhead no matter how many comics portray him falsely.  
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Oct 17, 2018 20:25
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Surely once this hole in The Plan is pointed out to him, Redcloak will be happy to negotiate with the heroes, since the quddity reveal is such a major bargaining chip! ...  says that Redcloak's gonna try to pull some half baked murderous scheme to power up TDO for the next cycle.
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Oct 17, 2018 20:40
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That specific revelation about the danger to the Dark One's persistence definitely recasts the votes on ending the world, depending on how aware of this the other gods are. If the Dark One's survival was a given, then (aside from the danger of creating a new Snarl through negative interactions with him) it might just be a matter of time/worlds before the gods can eventually bring him in on creating a four-quiddity Snarl prison. Keeps the stakes focused on this world. It's also a good point that Redcloak or the Dark One might choose to take this knowledge and focus on finding a way to build up the Dark One's odds of surviving through to the next world instead, which could be interesting. Also a bit of a grim note there with Thor saying he's seen other Gods starve in the interim between worlds. It does explain why the pantheons aren't overrun with non-original minor gods at this point, but also doesn't bode well for newcomers like the Elven gods or those minor demigods and the like.
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Oct 17, 2018 20:54
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The big barrier to negotiations with redcloak/tdo are that their desires for revenge and justice will come into conflict, and revenge will likely win.
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Oct 17, 2018 20:59
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I have a theory the next plot twist is that the Dark One's quiddity isn't unique. Because one other thing is drawn in purples: the Snarl. Did the Snarl raise the Dark One to godhood? Seems awfully convenient that his big plan is to free it.
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Oct 17, 2018 21:02
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His big plan is to threaten to free it. An important distinction.
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Oct 17, 2018 21:09
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Thor is still a redhead no matter how many comics portray him falsely. Actually, he is a powerhead  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=338YkxktGwA
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Oct 17, 2018 21:37
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LunarCress posted:Surely once this hole in The Plan is pointed out to him, Redcloak will be happy to negotiate with the heroes, since the quddity reveal is such a major bargaining chip! Redcloak's character arc has been to go from a one-dimensional villain to someone who cares about the combined goblinoid races. He'd be down with a "ride the atomic bomb down to the ground" plan if he didn't see any future for goblin-kind, but if he really believed that there was a way to get a solid future of being a real PC race then Redcloak will do whatever he thinks that takes including breaking ranks with The Dark One.
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Oct 18, 2018 01:39
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fool_of_sound posted:The big barrier to negotiations with redcloak/tdo are that their desires for revenge and justice will come into conflict, and revenge will likely win. And also that they have no reason to believe Durkon/Thor are telling the truth and have their best interests at heart, given that the last time The Dark One tried to negotiate as an equal, he got assassinated.
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Oct 18, 2018 02:06
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Does Redcloak have to voluntarily cast a spell aimed at giving the other gods purple quiddity, or can a spell he casts for some other purpose be used for that instead of whatever he was trying to do? We don't know, of course, but that's another way that this could shake out.
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Oct 18, 2018 05:03
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Dolash posted:It's also a good point that Redcloak or the Dark One might choose to take this knowledge and focus on finding a way to build up the Dark One's odds of surviving through to the next world instead, which could be interesting. That's still a win since it's an immediate solution. They can't do a Dark One spirit bomb at a moment's notice when either the Snarl or the gods are ending the world. It's something that will take years to do and Redcloak will need to patch up the current problems before putting that plan into action. It's a safe bet that over the millennia that the Order's world isn't stable even with patches applied to the rifts. New ones are going to keep forming and eventually you have a world that's more patches than world. So maybe once they understand the way things work, the Dark One will be ready to survive and make a new world that's more solid. The worst part of this exposition dump is that it makes me want this vampire stuff done with even sooner so we can get on with trying to convince Redcloak to save the world. ultrafilter posted:Does Redcloak have to voluntarily cast a spell aimed at giving the other gods purple quiddity, or can a spell he casts for some other purpose be used for that instead of whatever he was trying to do? We don't know, of course, but that's another way that this could shake out. Thor said they needed the power of a ninth level spell slot from him so it's being treated as a particular spell that he can cast. It also means they can't go the Xykon route and just hand the cloak off to the nearest goblin after he dies. ... The Order is going to have to go to the Dark One's plane to convince Redcloak to be resurrected after the monster in the dark eats him, aren't they. Random Stranger fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Oct 18, 2018 |
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Oct 18, 2018 05:06
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There's also the three devils who have their own plans for the gates, no telling what those are. They said that they wanted to maintain the balance between good and evil to somehow profit from the conflict? Whatever that means. I assume that makes them opposed to Hel's plans, although maybe they would be opposed on grounds of being residents of the universe that would be destroyed. Maybe. It's not clear whether extraplanar entities would be eliminated, but I'm leaning towards "yes." I've been reading through the archive to see if I missed anything, and that's the biggest dangling plot hook, and there's not many. Elan's dad will probably pop up somehow (potentially with Haley's dad), and Thog will probably weasel his way back into the story somehow. Maybe the crazed druid and half elf sorcerer could make another appearance? Also Vaarsuvius is a really bad person.
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Oct 19, 2018 06:51
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Thog needs to stay dead because it was good way to end his character.
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Oct 19, 2018 07:07
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Tarquin's plot thread is deliberately left dangling because his whole thing was knowing how stories work, and the only way to utterly defeat him is giving him a terrible non-ending without any resolution. Bringing him back would invalidate that. In general I'm pretty sure the Linear Guild as an institution has had its time in the story, evil opposites are such a mid-tier adventurer personal problem and we're firmly into saving the world territory. Sabine's probably still gonna play a role.
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Oct 19, 2018 07:20
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By Tarquin's character, I can see him returning, but the only satisfying way to close out his ending then is to basically have him get smoked immediately by the Snarl or Xykon or Redcloak. I don't think he should return because his ending was satisfying in how it resolved his threads- deliberately left hanging (to him), his worldview shattered.
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Oct 19, 2018 07:23
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Speaking of which I've had this idea that if anyone's gonna be smoked by the Snarl for sure, it's gonna be Xykon. Don't ask me why, it just popped into my head one day, and I guess it would be a good way to get rid of a regenerating lich and also kind of a comeuppance thing.
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Oct 19, 2018 07:26
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My Lovely Horse posted:Speaking of which I've had this idea that if anyone's gonna be smoked by the Snarl for sure, it's gonna be Xykon. Don't ask me why, it just popped into my head one day, and I guess it would be a good way to get rid of a regenerating lich and also kind of a comeuppance thing. My theory is that it'll lash at Xykon, but MitD will take the hit and die without ever being seen. Xykon freaks out back to his fortress, leaving Red Cloak to summon some neptunium elementals
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Oct 19, 2018 07:53
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Oh please by all means bring back the villains that have had millions of strips dedicated to them and have had every possible plot done and resolved, please we need more of Tarkin being a wacky evil man who read the evil overlord list
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Oct 19, 2018 13:48
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What's the deal with demons and devils, do they not serve any of the gods? Do they operate on having their own worshippers? Do they have quiddity? I'm just wondering if these are guys that also concern themselves with the snarl as a higher existential problem or if like people in the prime material plane new ones just get created each cycle.
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Oct 19, 2018 14:07
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What's the joke about the pyramid diagram? Is it just that divine worship is a pyramid scheme?
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Oct 19, 2018 14:18
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Zombie Dachshund posted:What's the joke about the pyramid diagram? Is it just that divine worship is a pyramid scheme? The old "food pyramid" I took it as.
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Oct 19, 2018 14:19
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Al Borland Corpse posted:What's the deal with demons and devils, do they not serve any of the gods? Do they operate on having their own worshippers? Do they have quiddity? I've only read the devil sourcebook, but most devils serve the higherarchy of the 9 hells, which has power exceeding the evil gods, but is not actually divine in nature*. They do have worshippers, but that doesn't actually provide them with power, just leverage for corruption of mortal souls. Some work for gods, but that's mostly a "biggest fish in the local pond" phenomenon. *A neat thing about that is they imply asmodeus is saving up his power to become a God in 3.5, then in 4 he is a major evil God
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Oct 19, 2018 14:34
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ikanreed posted:*A neat thing about that is they imply asmodeus is saving up his power to become a God in 3.5, then in 4 he is a major evil God Didn't they also do this with Vecna in between 2ED and 3ED?
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Oct 19, 2018 14:39
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Nothingtoseehere posted:The old "food pyramid" I took it as. Yeah. That and stuff like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. People like making pyramid diagrams.
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Oct 19, 2018 15:24
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Cat Mattress posted:Yeah. That and stuff like Maslow's hierarchy of needs. People like making pyramid diagrams. Yeah but the food pyramid is the actual joke they're making. "We don't use that anymore" The diversity of divine categories of energy. Would've worked better as a visual gag
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Oct 19, 2018 17:02
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ikanreed posted:Yeah but the food pyramid is the actual joke they're making
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Oct 19, 2018 17:15
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ikanreed posted:I've only read the devil sourcebook, but most devils serve the higherarchy of the 9 hells, which has power exceeding the evil gods, but is not actually divine in nature*. Devils feed off the souls of everyone who is Lawful Evil but not actually dedicated to a God, and everyone they trick into taking a Faustian Pact.
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Oct 19, 2018 18:51
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Some of the planescape stuff hints that the abyss/demons were created when some evil supergod was defeated and shattered at the beginning of time.
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Oct 19, 2018 18:56
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Gwyneth Palpate posted:Didn't they also do this with Vecna in between 2ED and 3ED? "Die Vecna Die" shows how Vecna got a promotion and rewrote the game rules to be more caster friendly
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Oct 19, 2018 19:48
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A.o.D. posted:"Die Vecna Die" shows how Vecna got a promotion and rewrote the game rules to be more caster friendly I'm pretty sure that was for the 1e to 2e transition.
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Oct 19, 2018 20:32
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Who What Now posted:I'm pretty sure that was for the 1e to 2e transition. Nah, I don't know much about it, but it's on Wikipedia. I think 1 to 2 was time of troubles?
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Oct 19, 2018 21:37
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Yeah, AD&D to 2e was the Time of Troubles, including such gems as Bhall sucking out the souls of every assassin in the world before getting killed himself...and hey, look at that, you can't play as an assassin anymore in 2e!
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Oct 19, 2018 21:43
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jng2058 posted:Yeah, AD&D to 2e was the Time of Troubles, including such gems as Bhall sucking out the souls of every assassin in the world before getting killed himself...and hey, look at that, you can't play as an assassin anymore in 2e! Still not as dumb as the spellplague
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Oct 19, 2018 21:59
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What I always found amusing about the Time of Troubles was all the lengths they went to justify the changes from AD&D to 2e in the Forgotten Realms, but they never bothered to do the same for Greyhawk. So in the FR there's this huge deal with gods and avatars and every assassin in the world losing his or her soul...and in Greyhawk, I dunno, they just quit showing up or something? ikanreed posted:Still not as dumb as the spellplague That's because there's nothing as dumb as the spellplague.
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Oct 19, 2018 22:04
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Who What Now posted:I'm pretty sure that was for the 1e to 2e transition. That was definitely 2nd to 3rd, btw. Vecna wasn't a deity in 2nd, and Planescape and everything didn't even exist in 1st.
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Oct 19, 2018 23:35
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Well I learned something new then.
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Oct 20, 2018 00:00
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What was the Spell Plague? Also how does Karsus's Avatar fit into the edition changes?
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Oct 20, 2018 01:15
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xanthan posted:What was the Spell Plague? Also how does Karsus's Avatar fit into the edition changes? One of the 17 times all the magic in the forgotten realms got blown up
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Oct 20, 2018 01:16
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xanthan posted:What was the Spell Plague? Also how does Karsus's Avatar fit into the edition changes? It was the explanation for the 3.5 to 4e transition. I forget any of the specifics other than it was dumb as hell.
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Oct 20, 2018 01:20
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xanthan posted:Also how does Karsus's Avatar fit into the edition changes? It doesn't. Karsus was from the "Netheril: Empire of Magic" 2nd edition box set, set 5000 years before then current Forgotten Realms, during a time "when magic was raw and powerful, when spellcasters stood supreme in the eyes of their nation." In short, the Netheril setting had spells above 9th level. Karsus loving up was the plot reason why Timmy's wizard wasn't allowed to bring Create Volcano (Level: 10; Range: One mile/level; Setting Implications: it belong to Timmy now) out of it's carefully delineated fun-having zone.
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Oct 20, 2018 02:03
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