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elite_garbage_man
Apr 3, 2010
I THINK THAT "PRIMA DONNA" IS "PRE-MADONNA". I MAY BE ILLITERATE.

Pie Colony posted:

previously i asked how much of a dick i would be if i started working knowing i'd leave in 1-2 months if given the chance. on here and in real life pretty much everyone said "a big one."

is this better: accepting an offer, but drawing it out and pushing back on the start date knowing if i got another offer in 2-3 weeks i'd take it instead?

and remember this is keeping in mind that corporations are soulless and evil

Accept the offer, start getting paid asap, then leave when it's convenient for you. If you leave after 2 weeks or whatever, just tell 'em it wasn't a good fit or didn't fall in line with what you though you'd be doing.

Just be sure you aren't going to owe them relocation bonuses or other crap before you actually hand in your notice.

It would be pretty funny if you handed in your two weeks notice on your first day though.

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bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
if you have more than 2 sets of interviews (one phone screen, one daylong onsite), my policy has been to walk away

according to the glassdoor reviews on the companies i've walked away from, it's a deec policy

graph
Nov 22, 2006

aaag peanuts

bob dobbs is dead posted:

if you have more than 2 sets of interviews (one phone screen, one daylong onsite), my policy has been to walk away

according to the glassdoor reviews on the companies i've walked away from, it's a deec policy

i had 6 rounds over four months at a big four. lol

elite_garbage_man
Apr 3, 2010
I THINK THAT "PRIMA DONNA" IS "PRE-MADONNA". I MAY BE ILLITERATE.
That would be a good policy if op actually had another offer in writing, but it doesn't sound like they do. At least to me.

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED

Jabor posted:

Do you actually have interviews and stuff lined up that you're expecting might make you an offer, or is it a super-vague "well what if a recruiter calls me out of the blue immediately after I've signed the contract" thing?

i have two onsites for Big Corps (see: slow corps) i'm in the process of scheduling, but i have to make a call on the other offers before they happen or at least definitely before i hear back

e: for full context, i did mention i have offers, they are speeding me along, it still won't work out, the other companies are really bland but a decent amount of figgies

Pie Colony fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Oct 24, 2018

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Here's a better question: if your company went through financial trouble, how much of a dick would they be for kneejerk downsizing your job and leaving you high and dry

Company to employee loyalty doesn't exist, so don't pretend that it should be any different the other way around. This is business, not a popularity contest.

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


You know how long it will take them to forget about you once your feet leave the office for good? Precisely 30 seconds, maybe less even.

graph
Nov 22, 2006

aaag peanuts

qhat posted:

Here's a better question: if your company went through financial trouble, how much of a dick would they be for kneejerk downsizing your job and leaving you high and dry

i got lifo'd at the last startup job i'll ever work

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

qhat posted:

You know how long it will take them to forget about you once your feet leave the office for good? Precisely 30 seconds, maybe less even.

i had drinks with a dude who i quit on a few years ago. i was first employee w/ him. we were legit chillin

those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind

TimWinter
Mar 30, 2015

https://timsthebomb.com

qhat posted:

You know how long it will take them to forget about you once your feet leave the office for good? Precisely 30 seconds, maybe less even.

Unless you use your personal credentials for automation, in which case it will take all day to forcefully scrub your existence from the servers.

Feisty-Cadaver
Jun 1, 2000
The worms crawl in,
The worms crawl out.
I work with a guy who quit a job on the first day (tbf he was a consultant)

he said “I asked for and require xyz to do my job” and they said “well you can’t have that”

so he was like: see ya

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


A guy hit and ran us about 6 months ago, wouldn't be able to remember the fucker's name if I tried.

Symbolic Butt
Mar 22, 2009

(_!_)
Buglord

KoRMaK posted:

I had my third of four interviews thursday, it was a pair programming sort of session on coder pad where I had to get 21 tests to pass.

I got a buzzer beater and got them passing by the 61 minute mark. Killed it. it was a great journey going from overwhelmed to completely finish the task


Got word back today from the recruiter: 4th interview won't be happening, they won't be flying me out for the on premise inteview. They said that my approach wasn't TDD enough and that the solution wasn't clear until later in the session. Um.... okay. Guess I don't know how else to code when someone wants to watch me live stream a new problem for an hour. I ran the tests after every couple of line changes once I had my main pattern up, which took about 30-40 minutes, and used the failing tests to drive my further development to zone in on what I was missing to make those last couple of tests work. so seems pretty TDD to me


So i dunno, feel like the feedback was a little garbage and that i don't really agree with their reason to pass on a candidate that got the thing completely 100% done (which others haven't apparently) just because my path to the solution was windy at first. How the hell else am I supposed to find my way?


e: oh, the test was to take in numbers and convert them to roman numerals. I snagged a copy of it if anyone wants to try it - its in ruby.

it seems like if you got the solution down and they got it in the end it just amounts to "you didn't solve it exactly my way which is objectively the best way so gently caress you"

some ruby people are absolutely insane about TDD, if you're all that interested in this approach you should check some bozos on youtube solving this kinda problem "TDD-style". it's an absolutely ridiculous approach imo but hey.

when I get feedback about why I got rejected in these coding sessions it's usually bullshit like "your code is good but you got 2 lines over 79 characters" or "actually the correct solution was recursion" so you better get used to it, interviewing is garbage and all that.

jesus WEP
Oct 17, 2004


TimWinter posted:

Unless you use your personal credentials for automation, in which case it will take all day to forcefully scrub your existence from the servers.
still using a contractor’s codegen license on our build server like 18 months after he left

Diva Cupcake
Aug 15, 2005

two jobs ago we had multiple (2-3) people over the course of 6 months quit within the first week as a result of senior leadership selling the company and roles as something they weren't. the rest of us employees smiled and secretly acknowledged that they were the lucky ones since that was a trash organization. godspeed hit-and-runners

TimWinter
Mar 30, 2015

https://timsthebomb.com

Feisty-Cadaver posted:

I work with a guy who quit a job on the first day (tbf he was a consultant)

he said “I asked for and require xyz to do my job” and they said “well you can’t have that”

so he was like: see ya

"Well you can't have VCS"

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



Symbolic Butt posted:

"actually the correct solution was recursion" so you better get used to it, interviewing is garbage and all that.

I did use recursion! it revealed itself to me as the solution around the 20 minute mark after I wrapped my head around all the dumb cases that roman numerals have. It's actually just one dumb rule, applied over and over!

Yea when the recruiter said I wasn't tdd enough my head exploded. It also makes me wonder what daily life is like there, and is there a huge gap in my programming knowledge and there are places that do the crazy tdd-masterrace sort of programming that I will just never even get a glimpse of? Basically the feedback sounded like bullshit but also triggered my impostor syndrome


Or maybe the rejection was just bullshit i have no idea!

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


Diva Cupcake posted:

two jobs ago we had multiple (2-3) people over the course of 6 months quit within the first week as a result of senior leadership selling the company and roles as something they weren't. the rest of us employees smiled and secretly acknowledged that they were the lucky ones since that was a trash organization. godspeed hit-and-runners

this seems to be my experience now, except i guess it is not so blatant, because more than half a year in i am only now converging on the conclusion that:
1) they really do believe that asking for market rate pay means "you're just here for the money"
2) stock options might as well be a fart in the sky - by the time the program has started the company might not as well exist
3) senior leadership simultaneously wants advanced software and seem to think they know what they are talking about, but also seems to think c++ skill with a language automatically means skill with any given library or framework, and has no concept at all about what a software development process actually looks like be

i can take 1 and 2, but 3 means that i am in a position where i must justify my salary through a rube goldberg process of telepathically understanding what is actually needed, proposing a solution spec complete with planning and a business plan how it will make the company money, and then maybe i get a raise

having typed this out, it seems to be time to hit the interview road again

prisoner of waffles
May 8, 2007

Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the fishmech
About my neck was hung.

Diva Cupcake posted:

two jobs ago we had multiple (2-3) people over the course of 6 months quit within the first week as a result of senior leadership selling the company and roles as something they weren't.

employers lying about the company and role: a very good reason to never be interviewing with fewer than 2 companies

Fiedler
Jun 29, 2002

I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

KoRMaK posted:

Yea when the recruiter said I wasn't tdd enough my head exploded. It also makes me wonder what daily life is like there, and is there a huge gap in my programming knowledge and there are places that do the crazy tdd-masterrace sort of programming that I will just never even get a glimpse of? Basically the feedback sounded like bullshit but also triggered my impostor syndrome

they're tdd zealots who code in ruby and don't hire based on problem-solving skill. if they had hired you, I guarantee that within a day of starting you would want to murder suicide the lot.

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



I love ruby, I daily it, but at my shop I didn't get into the zealot sort of evangelical nature of it. Seems like the community hamstrung itself and got the language a bad rap with that.

smalltalk also sounds like it would have been cool to program in in like 1989

The Management
Jan 2, 2010

sup, bitch?
a Facebook recruiter hit me up yesterday. how do I tell her that everyone hates them and their stock is not going anywhere and I would be ashamed to work there, but also if you give me a fuckton of money and everything I want I’ll consider it?

Diva Cupcake
Aug 15, 2005

that sounds like most companies in the world. just say yes to the phone screen.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

The Management posted:

a Facebook recruiter hit me up yesterday. how do I tell her that everyone hates them and their stock is not going anywhere and I would be ashamed to work there, but also if you give me a fuckton of money and everything I want I’ll consider it?

you only say the last part

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


My buddy at Facebook makes enough dosh that he could probably retire after working there for just a few years.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice

KoRMaK posted:

I did use recursion! it revealed itself to me as the solution around the 20 minute mark after I wrapped my head around all the dumb cases that roman numerals have. It's actually just one dumb rule, applied over and over!

Yea when the recruiter said I wasn't tdd enough my head exploded. It also makes me wonder what daily life is like there, and is there a huge gap in my programming knowledge and there are places that do the crazy tdd-masterrace sort of programming that I will just never even get a glimpse of? Basically the feedback sounded like bullshit but also triggered my impostor syndrome


Or maybe the rejection was just bullshit i have no idea!

roman numerals tdd is a known kata so they probably had some specific solution in mind

they did you a favor

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



it’s actually worse than that, the company Kormac applied tonisn’t particularly tdd-heavy at all, the interviewers were just being goofy

if it were “just” tdd zealotry I’d be less annoyed than I am right now 🤷‍♀️

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

elite_garbage_man posted:

Accept the offer, start getting paid asap, then leave when it's convenient for you. If you leave after 2 weeks or whatever, just tell 'em it wasn't a good fit or didn't fall in line with what you though you'd be doing.

Just be sure you aren't going to owe them relocation bonuses or other crap before you actually hand in your notice.

It would be pretty funny if you handed in your two weeks notice on your first day though.

couple years ago we had a guy get hired and quit on the first day, didn't even bother with the two weeks

i was one of the people who interviewed him, i was kind of 'well ok' on hiring but he indicated he knew and was friends with one of the other employees so i figured it would be fine and he probably just does interviews poorly, afterwards i checked with the person and they were 'what no i have no idea who that person was' so idk

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

got a phone screen coming up in about 3.5 hours, first ive had on this end since my last job search in 2013, might need a xanax

not in 'serious hunting mode' just yet, sending one resume out at a time, but if this first one hits i wont exactly be disappointed

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

fritz posted:

might need a xanax

not in 'serious hunting mode' just yet

look, unless you literally start calling your interviewer racial slurs the worst thing that happens is you flunk the hell out of the interview, get rejected, and everyone involved forgets about it in less than a week. especially since you aren’t serious yet, gently caress it, why be nervous about anything?

just take a deep breath, the worst thing that can reasonably happen is you have a bit of interviewing practice. you’re not even trapped on the phone, if you feel really awful and flub everything about it (which won’t happen) just say it isn’t working out and hang up. you don’t even have to walk out of an office

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



Achmed Jones posted:

it’s actually worse than that, the company Kormac applied tonisn’t particularly tdd-heavy at all, the interviewers were just being goofy

if it were “just” tdd zealotry I’d be less annoyed than I am right now 🤷‍♀️

lookin forward to a pm!

raminasi posted:

roman numerals tdd is a known kata so they probably had some specific solution in mind

they did you a favor
oh god dammit. loving katas. who does katas when they are already a 6 year senior/lead?? katas seem like poo poo new developers do to sharpen their skills.

I guess i should look at some though, just to brush up

Ellie Crabcakes
Feb 1, 2008

Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

jit bull transpile posted:

if you're some kind of lizard that sleeps on hot rocks maybe.
HURTFUL

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006
a bed w/ hot rocks sounds pretty nice

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


Programming trivia is pointless for interviews yet it's amazingly common. Just give them a real problem from your job you solved recently, like a tricky bug or something.

jesus WEP
Oct 17, 2004


our lead architect’s interviews are terrible, like 60-70% is on c# trivia and minutiae. extension methods, null propagation, pattern matching, that kind of thing. the kind of poo poo that a competent mostly-java dev could be shown twice and remember, but flame out spectacularly on an interview

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

Arcsech posted:

look, unless you literally start calling your interviewer racial slurs the worst thing that happens is you flunk the hell out of the interview, get rejected, and everyone involved forgets about it in less than a week. especially since you aren’t serious yet, gently caress it, why be nervous about anything?

just take a deep breath, the worst thing that can reasonably happen is you have a bit of interviewing practice. you’re not even trapped on the phone, if you feel really awful and flub everything about it (which won’t happen) just say it isn’t working out and hang up. you don’t even have to walk out of an office

update: phone screen went great, then went back to current job chat room and im being yelled at for a segfault that i dont think is mine, gonna take that xanax anyway

FMguru
Sep 10, 2003

peed on;
sexually

fritz posted:

update: phone screen went great, then went back to current job chat room and im being yelled at for a segfault that i dont think is mine, gonna take that xanax anyway
just one?

Arcsech
Aug 5, 2008

fritz posted:

update: phone screen went great, then went back to current job chat room and im being yelled at for a segfault that i dont think is mine, gonna take that xanax anyway

fair

e: i hope you get the job, your current one sounds lovely

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

KoRMaK posted:

I love ruby, I daily it, but at my shop I didn't get into the zealot sort of evangelical nature of it. Seems like the community hamstrung itself and got the language a bad rap with that.

smalltalk also sounds like it would have been cool to program in in like 1989

small talk went straight from painfully slow, to painfully obscure.

I’m not sure there was ever a “fun” period

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Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

by Shine
Places that do one-sided video interviewing should die in a fire.

Even if it's a gangbang, at least do me the common goddamn courtesy of picking one of the interviewers as a face so I have a loving human being to interact with rather than you fuckers all silently judging whether I'm young enough based on my hairline as I stare sullenly into the inky blackness of my screen.

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