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The_Franz
Aug 8, 2003

TheFluff posted:

why are all the linux guys I know so incredibly mad at systemd? what did it do?

it lets people do computer janitoring without writing a pile of horrible init scripts, so naturally a bunch of graybeards are worried about their job security

systemd is good, it's mostly a very vocal minority of nutcases who hate it

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Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe

ratbert90 posted:

systemd doesn’t replace dbus, it uses dbus and has some not-poo poo apis for it.

counter argument:

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/sd-bus.html

it doesn't replace the dbus server, but it does replace the client code

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

it's a good thing we still have ubuntu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kddqINA1vOA

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe

The_Franz posted:

it lets people do computer janitoring without writing a pile of horrible init scripts, so naturally a bunch of graybeards are worried about their job security

systemd is good, it's mostly a very vocal minority of nutcases who hate it

systemd-init is good, I agree - much better than sysv or even upstart. The service manager is good too except for binary logging

basically everything else about systemd sucks the root

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

Poopernickel posted:

counter argument:

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/sd-bus.html

it doesn't replace the dbus server, but it does replace the client code

true, but that’s not a bad thing.

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
Slippery Tilde

The_Franz posted:

it lets people do computer janitoring without writing a pile of horrible init scripts, so naturally a bunch of graybeards are worried about their job security

systemd is good, it's mostly a very vocal minority of nutcases who hate it
Maybe instead of horrible scripts u should write ... good scripts?

minato
Jun 7, 2004

cutty cain't hang, say 7-up.
Taco Defender

pseudorandom name posted:

well, that's one way to disassociate your brand from Trump and neckbearded manchildren

At the recent Red Hat conference they were handing out Red Hat ballcaps that were every color of the rainbow except red. Weezer played the conference party and Rivers Cuomo asked the audience why all the caps weren't red. Awkward laughter...

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016





:piss:

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016





I’m feeling that feeling again.

That emotion when Oracle bought Sun’s assets, except worse

sb hermit
Dec 13, 2016





Yes, let us rewrite and take ownership of literally every system component instead of just sticking to init


https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=CVE-2018-15688

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

systemd vs init is the lamest holy war in the history of holy wars

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe
yes agree

if systemd dropped everything that wasn't systemd-init and the service manager, I bet people would shut up about it pretty quick

pseudorandom name
May 6, 2007

lol no they wouldn't. they're not mad at anything specific about systemd, that's all just a pretext. it could be literally perfect in every way and they'd still be violently angry.

they're mad that the knowledge they had when their brains started to calcify in the mid-90s is no longer career relevant and they need to retrain.

Origin
Feb 15, 2006

pseudorandom name posted:

lol no they wouldn't. they're not mad at anything specific about systemd, that's all just a pretext. it could be literally perfect in every way and they'd still be violently angry.

they're mad that the knowledge they had when their brains started to calcify in the mid-90s is no longer career relevant and they need to retrain.

Watching Revolution OS for the third time that week, angry that the Dotcom era is over.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

Poopernickel posted:

counter argument:

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/sd-bus.html

it doesn't replace the dbus server, but it does replace the client code

do you even understand the concept of a client library

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost

Poopernickel posted:

RIP RHEL, we'll miss you

but gently caress systemd for real, it's a great init system glued to lovely unnecessary replacements for getty, mount, dhcp, dns, dbus (which already sucks) and who the gently caress knows what else by now

it doesn't replace getty wtf

it doesn't replace mount, it has a unit type for mount points and it uses the existing kernel automounter to implement them. /etc/fstab is still there

dns is a protocol. if you mean systemd-resolved afaik nobody actually uses it by default and it's an /etc/nsswitch.conf setting to opt in or out

it has a client library for dbus that it uses itself and that other people are welcome to use. the new dbus-daemon is an entirely independent project

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
as for this news, "boy i'm sure glad these two corporations decided to merge, this is certainly going to benefit me somehow" said literally no non-0.1%er ever

Ellie Crabcakes
Feb 1, 2008

Stop emailing my boyfriend Gay Crungus

...

Only registered members can see post attachments!

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003


[img-triumph-dog]

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe

Sapozhnik posted:

it doesn't replace getty

guess you're right on that one - I got mixed up by https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-getty-generator.html

Sapozhnik posted:

it doesn't replace mount

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-mount.html

edit:
while googling, turns out it also replaces udev :shepface: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/udev.html

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe
yase, my init system should definitely have a webserver built in :shepface: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-journal-gatewayd.html

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

r u ready to WALK posted:

thank god microsoft had the foresight to make windows a linux so we have something to switch to when ibm ruins redhat

what’s the expected timeframe for Microsoft buying Ubuntu after this move from IBM

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe

Poopernickel posted:

yase, my init system should definitely have a webserver built in :shepface: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-journal-gatewayd.html

I don't think you understand what those are. Those aren't services that run as part of PID1. They are separate executables.

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe
also it should definitely replace ntpd, that's a real value add there :shepface: https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-timesyncd.service.html

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

TheFluff posted:

why are all the linux guys I know so incredibly mad at systemd? what did it do?

it was different than their traditional pile of lovely scripts

therefore bad

eschaton
Mar 7, 2007

Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

hobbesmaster posted:

for future readers of this thread it says
“IBM AND RED HAT COMBINE TO CREATE LEADING HYBRID/MULTI-BUTT PROVIDER”

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
Slippery Tilde

pseudorandom name posted:

lol no they wouldn't. they're not mad at anything specific about systemd, that's all just a pretext. it could be literally perfect in every way and they'd still be violently angry.

they're mad that the knowledge they had when their brains started to calcify in the mid-90s is no longer career relevant and they need to retrain.

Nice meltdown

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe

TheFluff posted:

why are all the linux guys I know so incredibly mad at systemd? what did it do?

it grew like a cancer, consuming unbroken things and replacing them with broken ones

init scripts suck and init needed replacing, 100% agreed. But gently caress the monoculture that systemd is creating - absorbing an entire ecosystem piece by piece

also systemd is 100% Linux-specific, and won't compile or work on any BSD. So the growing web of systemd dependency is lowkey obsoleting every non-Linux unix

Poopernickel fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Oct 29, 2018

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe
2012: Ganoo/leenux
2018: systemd/goddamn it

The_Franz
Aug 8, 2003

Poopernickel posted:

also systemd is 100% Linux-specific, and won't compile or work on any BSD. So the growing web of systemd dependency is lowkey obsoleting every non-Linux unix

that's been slowly happening since the turn of the century regardless of systemd

4lokos basilisk
Jul 17, 2008


The_Franz posted:

that's been slowly happening since the turn of the century regardless of systemd

i wonder what os runs in apple hardware...

FlapYoJacks
Feb 12, 2009

Gazpacho posted:

Maybe instead of horrible scripts u should write ... good scripts?

says every lovely script writer.

The_Franz
Aug 8, 2003

Penisface posted:

i wonder what os runs in apple hardware...

ah yes, they aren't all dead which means that there hasn't been a significant reduction over the last 20 years :rolleyes:

there are significantly fewer unices available now compared to the late-90s, and many of the ones that are still hanging around are in maintenance mode for legacy customers

in the context of the thread, macos is the last capital-u unix for the desktop still being developed now that oracle put solaris into maintenance mode

pram
Jun 10, 2001
osx already has launchd which is the worlds most advanced init system

ewe2
Jul 1, 2009

eschaton posted:

what’s the expected timeframe for Microsoft buying Ubuntu after this move from IBM

Lol i was just thinking about that, it can't be far off.

The Management
Jan 2, 2010

sup, bitch?

pram posted:

osx already has launchd which is the worlds most advanced init system

systemd is basically a bad clone of launchd.

The Management
Jan 2, 2010

sup, bitch?
all of linux is going to be owned by the software giants it was going to kill.

Suspicious Dish
Sep 24, 2011

2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro
Fun Shoe

Poopernickel posted:

also systemd is 100% Linux-specific, and won't compile or work on any BSD. So the growing web of systemd dependency is lowkey obsoleting every non-Linux unix

BSDs only survive because they implement the more popular Linux APIs (see: GEM/KMS/evdev), not because anybody else cares to port their software to the BSDs. There are thousands of Linux-specific APIs and projects that you use every day that only "just barely" run on BSDs and nobody gives a poo poo. I don't know why people latched onto this with systemd.

Gazpacho
Jun 18, 2004

by Fluffdaddy
Slippery Tilde

ewe2 posted:

Lol i was just thinking about that, it can't be far off.
now we see the real reason Linus was sidelined

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Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

Suspicious Dish posted:

BSDs only survive because they implement the more popular Linux APIs (see: GEM/KMS/evdev), not because anybody else cares to port their software to the BSDs. There are thousands of Linux-specific APIs and projects that you use every day that only "just barely" run on BSDs and nobody gives a poo poo. I don't know why people latched onto this with systemd.

when youre grasping at straws every straw counts

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