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SardonicTyrant
Feb 26, 2016

BTICH IM A NEWT
熱くなれ夢みた明日を
必ずいつかつかまえる
走り出せ振り向くことなく
&



Right next to the bus stop next to work, I'm looking t at a Forever Duke window sticker so...hmm...

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Coffee Jones
Jul 4, 2004

16 bit? Back when we was kids we only got a single bit on Christmas, as a treat
And we had to share it!

KoRMaK posted:

oh god dammit. loving katas. who does katas when they are already a 6 year senior/lead?? katas seem like poo poo new developers do to sharpen their skills.

yes, man. loving katas like you’d been flipping pancakes, decided to do this software thing one day ginned up your entire resume + experience on the spot.
Optimally they’re supposed to be technical freebie questions and they’re looking for ‘your approach and style’ - of course if the interviewer sees a dozen of these and gets impatient when you get wrapped around the axle coming up with a solution, it’s just a wash.

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012



Coffee Jones posted:

yes, man. loving katas like you’d been flipping pancakes, decided to do this software thing one day ginned up your entire resume + experience on the spot.
Optimally they’re supposed to be technical freebie questions and they’re looking for ‘your approach and style’ - of course if the interviewer sees a dozen of these and gets impatient when you get wrapped around the axle coming up with a solution, it’s just a wash.

I'm inferring what you mean here, but yea the fact that I didn't already know the answer, and didn't take the time to read other solutions to inform my approach, is what I think hosed me. I googled for some libraries that would have implemented the solution, but was looking for a specific thing (packaged gems) and skipped over some gists I found. I should have said "oh hey I see some other solutions, I'm going to read those for a minute and see if they help guide me."

My problem at the time was that I thought that would be like cheating, as if this was a test in school, intead of acting like it was any other work that I do which would mean "google it and read stack overflow and what other people have done"

So, in closing, a small mistake I made during the interview that is practically inconsequential to my actual talent, experience and daily workflow discounted me from the roll of candidates.


interviewing is huge time garbage

Maximo Roboto
Feb 4, 2012

ADINSX posted:

I couldn't tell you what IBM does these days other than "fire old people". I know the answer is something like "professional services" or whatever but man thats so depressing, what a fall.

It's crazy because getting fired by IBM was a ancillary plot point in Microserfs

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

of course

the only place in the world where a computer toucher can't afford to live comfortably is san francisco. ;)

Seattle?

Phone
Jul 30, 2005

親子丼をほしい。

Shaggar posted:

I haven't been there in years but I cant imagine its anywhere close to other tech hubs, especially ones on the coasts.

both downtown raleigh and durham have downtown condos/apartments/whatever that starts at 2k+ a month now

the real estate bubble here is unreal

Maximo Roboto
Feb 4, 2012

Phone posted:

both downtown raleigh and durham have downtown condos/apartments/whatever that starts at 2k+ a month now

the real estate bubble here is unreal

One bedroom?

Have heard Austin is getting pretty bad now too. Wondering which other cities are affected.

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:


prisoner of waffles posted:

Accepted an offer that's still in ${HELL_INDUSTRY} but I will get to handle a pitchfork and I'll have a few trusted coworkers with me in the boiling pits of sulfur :yeah:

and the figgies are better ofc

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

I didn't get the job at Large Tech Co

but someone else at Large Tech Co told me to apply for a different team??

might get another trip to California baby

prisoner of waffles
May 8, 2007

Ah! well a-day! what evil looks
Had I from old and young!
Instead of the cross, the fishmech
About my neck was hung.

Luigi Thirty posted:

I didn't get the job at Large Tech Co

but someone else at Large Tech Co told me to apply for a different team??

might get another trip to California baby

gently caress yeah get comped travel, get figgies too

Fiedler
Jun 29, 2002

I, for one, welcome our new mouse overlords.

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

db2 and oracle are both thrashing and dying

postgres is eating them alive on the low-end, and the high end is being stolen by distributed databases that handle large datasets better

also mssql is growing quickly

qhat
Jul 6, 2015


Oracle's advantages as a dbms have eroded significantly since mssql 2014+ came out, and it costs way more also. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of their income right now comes from existing clients who are so all in on Oracle that they literally cannot afford to switch to something else. Our stance on Oracle was "only if you really really really need it, otherwise stick with SQL server".

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

Maximo Roboto posted:

It's crazy because getting fired by IBM was a ancillary plot point in Microserfs

its been a while since i read it but wasnt that firing part of that first round back in 1992-ish when ibm decided 'no actually we are going to have mass layoffs'

SardonicTyrant
Feb 26, 2016

BTICH IM A NEWT
熱くなれ夢みた明日を
必ずいつかつかまえる
走り出せ振り向くことなく
&



I'll be honest, even knowing what I've learned in this thread, I'd have still joined IBM anyway.

Because it means no more interviews for now.

Bloody
Mar 3, 2013

do i wanna pursue an internal opportunity to be a manager of people? right now i am a technical project manager so this would be like the other half of the managerial stuff - hiring, performance, goals, firing instead of schedule, scope, budget

i generally like people and already work closely with everyone who would be my direct report and while some of them are certainly strong personalities i generally like them all so??

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006

qhat posted:

Oracle's advantages as a dbms have eroded significantly since mssql 2014+ came out, and it costs way more also. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of their income right now comes from existing clients who are so all in on Oracle that they literally cannot afford to switch to something else. Our stance on Oracle was "only if you really really really need it, otherwise stick with SQL server".

SQL Server has always been a better option than oracle unless you needed to light some money on fire to hit your budget goals. since like 2008 or 2012 or whenever ssis and ssrs started coming with sql server its been far and away the best db option

motedek
Oct 9, 2012

Luigi Thirty posted:

I didn't get the job at Large Tech Co :(

:same:, op

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008


everybody keeps leaving my team and also company lol

been here like 16 months and am now the oldest member of the team, including manager

that said im happy and they pay me a bunch of figgies and im on track to get promoted to a role i want more than what i do now so :shrug:

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE

Shaggar posted:

SQL Server has always been a better option than oracle unless you needed to light some money on fire to hit your budget goals. since like 2008 or 2012 or whenever ssis and ssrs started coming with sql server its been far and away the best db option

as irritating and as expensive as it is, you're probably right. postgres is very good and does some things better but sql server has a few killer features, like system-versioned tables (there's a postgres extension for this but it uses triggers and is kinda janky) and columnstore indexes.

e: sql server only gaining utf8 support in the 2019 release is laffo tho

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Oct 30, 2018

Hunter2 Thompson
Feb 3, 2005

Ramrod XTreme

Mao Zedong Thot posted:

everybody keeps leaving my team and also company lol

been here like 16 months and am now the oldest member of the team, including manager

that said im happy and they pay me a bunch of figgies and im on track to get promoted to a role i want more than what i do now so :shrug:

that’s a pretty big red flag, especially if you regard your former coworkers as intelligent people. any thoughts on why they left?

Hunter2 Thompson
Feb 3, 2005

Ramrod XTreme

Luigi Thirty posted:

I didn't get the job at Large Tech Co

but someone else at Large Tech Co told me to apply for a different team??

might get another trip to California baby

apply to the other teams and don’t give up! you’re unquestionably smart and hardworking enough to be successful. ultimately it just comes down to doing a lot of interviews.

Mao Zedong Thot
Oct 16, 2008


meatpotato posted:

that’s a pretty big red flag, especially if you regard your former coworkers as intelligent people. any thoughts on why they left?

most of them have been there 3 or 4 years, so have seen the company 4x in size, new ceo, new cto, entirely or almost entirely vested so its not exactly surprising (but ofc its still bad)

when I joined I was intentionally joining the biggest company I'd worked at in a while, so the growing pains stuff is fine to me -- I would have also left had I started when it was way smaller though

Kind Friend
Sep 9, 2013

i need some advice: i'm interviewing with two companies. company A has been moving things along pretty quick and called today to let me know they're planning on making me an offer. company B has been moving more slowly and i'm currently trying to schedule an onsite interview with them. is it fair to let company B know that i'm currently negotiating another offer and would like to speed things along? all things being equal i think i would prefer to work at company B (assuming they even make me an offer).

ADINSX
Sep 9, 2003

Wanna run with my crew huh? Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?

Kind Friend posted:

i need some advice: i'm interviewing with two companies. company A has been moving things along pretty quick and called today to let me know they're planning on making me an offer. company B has been moving more slowly and i'm currently trying to schedule an onsite interview with them. is it fair to let company B know that i'm currently negotiating another offer and would like to speed things along? all things being equal i think i would prefer to work at company B (assuming they even make me an offer).

Yes thats very reasonable. Usually companies will ask if you're talking with anyone else so they can factor it into their scheduling.

Blinkz0rz
May 27, 2001

MY CONTEMPT FOR MY OWN EMPLOYEES IS ONLY MATCHED BY MY LOVE FOR TOM BRADY'S SWEATY MAGA BALLS

Bloody posted:

do i wanna pursue an internal opportunity to be a manager of people? right now i am a technical project manager so this would be like the other half of the managerial stuff - hiring, performance, goals, firing instead of schedule, scope, budget

i generally like people and already work closely with everyone who would be my direct report and while some of them are certainly strong personalities i generally like them all so??

managing can be super rewarding just make sure you're not just adding on to your current responsibilities unless that's exactly what you want

my experience with managing is that i did a really lovely job of defining the bounds of my responsibilities and so i ended up doing everything that i couldn't delegate (which was a lot) and burned myself out like crazy

Pie Colony
Dec 8, 2006
I AM SUCH A FUCKUP THAT I CAN'T EVEN POST IN AN E/N THREAD I STARTED
i’m not at all a manager, but i can appreciate its difficulty. there are fewer discrete things you can measure. but i think the appeal of going into management boils down to two things: (1) it’s, unless you’re seriously talented, a way to jump into higher figgies quicker, and (2) the value you get is derived not from your individual contributions but how much you can empower other individual contributors into being more efficient. the two are actually linked: there’s an upper cap to how productive you can be as an individual, but as a manager you affect and realize productivity gains for an entire group, so you have more business value. obviously there are other considerations (e.g. how much you like meetings and talking to people) but if that premise sounds intriguing you might enjoy management.

my homie dhall
Dec 9, 2010

honey, oh please, it's just a machine
Is the conventional wisdom still to never give out a first number? I've done that with {company that pays high salaries} and my recruiter seems to think they're going to try and low-ball me because of it.

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Ploft-shell crab posted:

Is the conventional wisdom still to never give out a first number? I've done that with {company that pays high salaries} and my recruiter seems to think they're going to try and low-ball me because of it.

it doesn't really matter who gives the first number. just don't gently caress it up.

if you are obliged to toss out the first number, set the number high enough that you will be happy negotiating downwards. because it ain't gonna go upwards.

most especially: don't let prior salary be the first number discussed. that's an awful, awful anchoring point.

Corla Plankun
May 8, 2007

improve the lives of everyone
yeah never tell people what you make unless you want to make the same amount at nextjob

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene
yeah. that.

to be clearer, then:
  • it is 100% ok to let yourself get pushed into throwing out the first number

  • it is almost never ok to disclose a prior salary before the offer stage

personally i have never disclosed my prior salary until after the offer is accepted. (background check firms at my last two jobs have been obsessed with prior salary numbers lol)

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.
Reminder that in California, potential employers are no longer even allowed to ask about your prior salary! I bet that one is still filtering through HR handbooks.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

CPColin posted:

Reminder that in California, potential employers are no longer even allowed to ask about your prior salary! I bet that one is still filtering through HR handbooks.

and they gotta give a salary range

it's p. awkward to bring up a law to do it when you're askin but it works

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

CPColin posted:

Reminder that in California, potential employers are no longer even allowed to ask about your prior salary! I bet that one is still filtering through HR handbooks.

in every state of the union, they're not allowed to ask about your marital status, but they still do

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

bob dobbs is dead posted:

and they gotta give a salary range

it's p. awkward to bring up a law to do it when you're askin but it works

i'm not sure i would ask for the salary range -- that's a great way to put a hard cap on your negotiated salary

referencing the law in order to deflect questions about prior salary seems free and easy tho!

CPColin
Sep 9, 2003

Big ol' smile.

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

in every state of the union, they're not allowed to ask about your marital status, but they still do

I have never been asked this outside of an overly detailed background check.

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

CPColin posted:

I have never been asked this outside of an overly detailed background check.

folks hint around

maybe they think it is just small talk

ShadowHawk
Jun 25, 2000

CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

Notorious b.s.d. posted:

folks hint around

maybe they think it is just small talk
lol if your company doesn't explicitly train you not to ask problematic questions even casually

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


i've never even thought of anything but automatically replying 'single' to that question if asked vOv

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene

Ciaphas posted:

i've never even thought of anything but automatically replying 'single' to that question if asked vOv

the problem is that if it is ever asked point blank enough to answer "single," the company culture is deeply sick

Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene
i assume when people kinda hint at it with me, being an aging white male, they want to hear that i'm a family man who is well adjusted and poo poo as a story about my personal life

but that very same set of hints could also be an attempt to screen out women who are fixin to have children

i ain't got kids, and i never will, but i sure as poo poo don't want to work at a place that screens out women of child-bearing age or family-centric employees. that is the reddest of red flags, wavin high and strong

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Notorious b.s.d.
Jan 25, 2003

by Reene
tl;dr good conditions for parents are also an indicator of sane employee relations for those of us unlikely to ever avail ourselves of parental benefits

be wary as hell of fuckers who want to get into marital status

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