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Amppelix posted:I got one character to comment on this in a dialogue option, I don't remember where. But yes Kris is human and is the only one in town. The part when you get to talk to Toriel at the end, she tells a story about how when you were little, you wondered when "your horns" were going to come in, so she bought you a headband with plastic horns. She treats it like some silly childhood thing but combined with everything else we know about Kris, it made me a little sad
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Nov 1, 2018 13:38
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So I like what someone said earlier about each chapter possibly being a day/cycle. I think if there isn't a twist and the game continues as chapter 2 / we continue as Kris, Chapter 2 will end up visiting totally different parts of the Dark World, inspired by whatever part of town we end up in? I mean, I dont know what to make of the door we went through to get into the Dark World in the school, and the space before and including where we meet Raisel - it doesn't seem connected to the theme of the game world - Raisel's kingdom seems almost like a facade - it's empty, strange, and kind of flat looking? Also, am I remembering wrong or did Raisel mention coming back after things were done if you check the door to the castle? In general the area before Raisel's castle is really strange, I remember feeling like there was areas that looked like I could reach them, but couldn't - I was expecting to be able to double around at some point. e: More thoughts, re: The Legend I don't know what to make of the legend Raisel tells you. You get it again if you boot up the game again. It seems almost too "typical?" But it also doesn't fully...match up? It talks about the balance being broken, and the world would take it's last breath: only then would 3 heroes show to seal the fountains. (Plural.) There's a pause and and shift, then talks about "today" there's a fountain that powers this world (dark world?) but another sprung up and is now shifting the balance. It seems like we're kind of early to be the three heroes - calamity hasn't yet happened, just a slight imbalance? Oxyclean fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 13:44
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 Okay so the character being named Kris threw me off, 'cause just like others in the thread the first four letters of my name are Kris. At the start of the game, Susie has 100 Rudeness stat, but at the end, she has 99  https://twitter.com/UnderTale/status/1057977228708012032
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Nov 1, 2018 13:48
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Republicans posted:God I hope tomorrow is a surprise announcement of chapter 2 being available for purchase and not just some dumb Smash thing that's being heavily telegraphed. I really don’t think tomorrow is literally 11/1, just the in-game tomorrow.
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Nov 1, 2018 13:54
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Toby is going to respond to feedback today, so could someone with a Twitter account ask him if the grass in the field is inspired by Secret of Mana?
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Nov 1, 2018 13:54
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 https://tobyfox.bandcamp.com/album/deltarune-chapter-1-ost
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Nov 1, 2018 13:54
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Pakled posted:The part when you get to talk to Toriel at the end, she tells a story about how when you were little, you wondered when "your horns" were going to come in, so she bought you a headband with plastic horns. She treats it like some silly childhood thing but combined with everything else we know about Kris, it made me a little sad Ah yes, which seems to imply that Kris doesn't have a family and has been living with Toriel for most of their life (it's possible they were abandoned or something like that). As it seems they have their own established personality this time around (as opposed to Frisk who was basically an avatar for the player, as evidenced by the fact that the monsters' reactions to you change depending on what you do during the game) it's possible we may learn a bit more about them as things progress.
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Nov 1, 2018 13:58
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Electric Phantasm posted:Hot take here Yeah
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Nov 1, 2018 14:01
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That is the coldest take
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Nov 1, 2018 14:05
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Here’s a prediction: Due to the distinct in-town/Dark World dichotomy, the method by which you enter the Dark World, the episodic format, and the explicit mention of “tomorrow” hinting at a day-by-day progression, Deltarune will probably be more akin to Persona compared to the first game.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:06
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Larryb posted:Ah yes, which seems to imply that Kris doesn't have a family and has been living with Toriel for most of their life (it's possible they were abandoned or something like that). As it seems they have their own established personality this time around (as opposed to Frisk who was basically an avatar for the player, as evidenced by the fact that the monsters' reactions to you change depending on what you do during the game) it's possible we may learn a bit more about them as things progress. with the added and unsettling implication that we nuked the person they used to be when we overwrote their save file frisk began as a blank slate and gained agency as the true pacifist route progressed, but deltarune gives us the impression that kris was their own person before this and using them as our avatar has almost completely hollowed them out
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Nov 1, 2018 14:07
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also seconding the general impression that the chapters will follow a day-by-day format i think there'll also be seven in total, because Asriel's return from university is scheduled then and it seems to be the source of a lot of the current tension in Kris' life
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Nov 1, 2018 14:08
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lets hang out posted:That is the coldest take Thank goodness, I was worried that it would be pretty hot.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:11
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What format this is gonna take is one of the things I'm the most anxious about, and we won't know until Chapter 2... I'm sure it'll be great no matter what, but I'm dying to know.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:13
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I'm not emotionally as invested in this game as I was in Undertale and I don't think that's a bad thing. The whole game is an experience in "alienation effect" where it constantly reminds you of what it is so you think about it instead of suspending your disbelief and investing in the characters and their experiences. That's going to matter a lot to what kind of game this is. Edit: tl;dr is Over There posted:It was good, kept me thinking The first time this happened for me (beyond just the opening sequence of "holy poo poo it's another Undertale game, gotta look at every detail what does it mean") is when everyone is concerned that Susie will kick Kris' rear end. Because that made me think, "Wait why is anyone pretending a monster can beat up a human, a human child can wipe the floor with monsterkind's best soldier using nothing but ballet kicks." A human in a town of monsters should be like a hornet among moths, none of them should pose any threat to Kris, but there Kris is, getting picked up by this monster and physically threatened. This set off the most thoughts for me: Does no one (including Kris) know this? Is Kris holding back because Toriel taught him about it? Or is the power level difference between humans and monsters not a thing in this universe? (And after talking to everyone in town at the end, I have to wonder: If no one knows how dangerous humans are or it's not a thing in this universe, then why was Noelle afraid of "humans under the bed," a clear "Humans Are The Real Monsters" signal pointing back to Undertale's assumptions about humans and monsters.) Throughout the whole game, the "gameyness" of it is so blatant that it made me hyper observant rather than emotionally invested in anything. As some noted, the storyline is way too cliched fantasy adventure stuff. I suspected a trick and was always on the lookout for it. In Undertale, the question of how to solve conflicts was for you to figure out, but in Deltarune, a character beats you over the head with "Hey we can resolve fights without fighting" and it forms the basis of this character's conflict with another and a whole character arc. Because of this, and because I trusted Toby not to make the same gimmick central twice, I didn't really care. I went full pacifist because I thought it was a more interesting gameplay challenge, and while it has some effect on the ending, it also doesn't matter because you can't really kill anyone, they just run away. When the biggest Undertale "gimmick" gets played with like that, it just sets off thoughts about what this game's deal is going to be, and a level of attentiveness to how it functions as a game rather than what happens in it as a story. At so many points, the game is inviting you to compare it to Undertale - a game I have a lot of fond and strong feelings about - and thus reminding you that all the same elements are here, but "off" somehow. The Dark World quest follows a lot of the same beats, but is still different. You go around town at the end and it's the "same characters" mostly but with enough different that you know they're not "your" Undertale characters. It's really interesting to me that Toby's leveraging the infamous metanarrative of Undertale to manipulate the player in Deltarune like this, into thinking about what's going on, even when it seems like your agency matters a lot less. It makes me think that being able to connect the lore dots (like, "Oh wow, those colored flowers in Asgore's room, it's like a thing in Undertale, what does it mean!") matters a lot less than the fact that the game is at every moment teasing you into trying to connect them. Really excited to see where this goes. youcallthatatwist posted:
Worth noting that at this point, the game actually says "Kris and Raslei join the party." So I basically agree with this theory a lot. Also: did anyone else notice that the doors that let you fast travel look a whole lot like the door to Sans' room in Undertale? (edit: lol, there I go trying to connect the dots...) GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Nov 1, 2018 |
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Nov 1, 2018 14:15
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Your Computer posted:What format this is gonna take is one of the things I'm the most anxious about, and we won't know until Chapter 2... Yeah, I’m expecting it to be an episodic series that is iterated upon based on the feedback Toby receives over the course of its lifecycle. It’s an interesting way to develop a game, kind of like how Charles Dickens wrote his stories. I would love to see the trade offs of developing a game under that plan, cause Agile for Video Games has made me curious for a long time. I’m really looking forward to this, and actually: I’m glad this is not a sequel to Undertale, but a rearrangement and a different way of looking at it, as the title suggests. That is far more interesting to me than simply extending the story. It’s clearly got something to say, and I wanna hear it out. Now begins the long wait for chapter 2, I guess.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:20
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It was good, kept me thinking
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Nov 1, 2018 14:23
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I had a sliver of hope that Toby Fox was going to go absolute madman and release one chapter per day or something crazy, but it seems like there's a long wait ahead for Chapter 2... Back to my normal everyday life I guess...
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Nov 1, 2018 14:24
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milk moosie posted:Here’s a prediction: I like this interpretation because it also fits with some other things. The changing of your person's outfit and abilities, the exaggeration of the mundane becoming the fantastical, having things be juuuuust familiar to be noticeably different all give the feeling of the Mind Palaces from 4 and 5. Also, Susie not responding to commands is similar to 3 and 4's auto system where the character would do what they wanted in battle. Oxxidation posted:also seconding the general impression that the chapters will follow a day-by-day format This also fits because Asriel's absence is a hole in the town itself. Like the FLCL example above, Kris is set beside Asriel and often is seen as the 'New Coke' to his 'Coke Classic'. But with befriending Susie, and the actions in the Epilogue, Kris begins to become his own person away from Asriel's presence, which leads to the reaction after you go to sleep. Oh, new theory: Chara wants to keep things as they are. Where he and Asriel are seen together, or at least compared to one another. When Kris becomes his own sort of person, making new friends and taking an interest in the town, he reacts by literally throwing his heart in a cage.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:31
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https://twitter.com/tobyfox/status/1057987819765936128 https://twitter.com/tobyfox/status/1057988038914138114   that's a hell of a long time to keep this under your hat toby
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Nov 1, 2018 14:31
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milk moosie posted:Yeah, I’m expecting it to be an episodic series that is iterated upon based on the feedback Toby receives over the course of its lifecycle. It’s an interesting way to develop a game, kind of like how Charles Dickens wrote his stories. I would love to see the trade offs of developing a game under that plan, cause Agile for Video Games has made me curious for a long time. Yeah, for the first 95% of the game or so there's no reason (aside from the fact that Frisk is nowhere to be found and a new kid is living with Toriel instead) not to assume this is just a direct sequel to Undertale following the Pacifist ending (the monsters are all on the surface, Monster Kid is a bit older, they're all going to school, etc.) but then once you hit the epilogue and actually get a chance to explore the town you get the sense that nothing is really as it should be (Undyne and Alphys have never met, Asriel is alive and away at college, etc.). It's a pretty unique way of handling things in my opinion and I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes. Incidentally, I really like the vocal theme that plays at the end. Is there a full version available anywhere yet?
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Nov 1, 2018 14:32
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hard agree on a lot of what's mentioned here, while Raslei is incorrigibly cute and i would go to the barricades to defend his smile, the way he presents his philosophy and the Dark World's mechanics make both of them seem intensely facile and artificial even before they prove to be insufficient to actually take down the chapter's main threat it's like, you listen to him blather on about friendship and SPAREing and then you think back to Undertale and go "jesus christ, why did i think this would ever actually work"
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Nov 1, 2018 14:35
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Larryb posted:Yeah, for the first 95% of the game or so there's no reason (aside from the fact that Frisk is nowhere to be found and a new kid is living with Toriel instead) not to assume this is just a direct sequel to Undertale following the Pacifist ending (the monsters are all on the surface, Monster Kid is a bit older, they're all going to school, etc.) but then once you hit the epilogue and actually get a chance to explore the town you get the sense that nothing is really as it should be (Undyne and Alphys have never met, Asriel is alive and away at college, etc.). It's a pretty unique way of handling things in my opinion and I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes. Yup, it's on bandcamp. https://tobyfox.bandcamp.com/album/deltarune-chapter-1-ost Track 39
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Nov 1, 2018 14:35
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Fox has the patience of an angel.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:36
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Samovar posted:Fox has the patience of an angel. uh oh
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Nov 1, 2018 14:37
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Oxxidation posted:hard agree on a lot of what's mentioned here, while Raslei is incorrigibly cute and i would go to the barricades to defend his smile, the way he presents his philosophy and the Dark World's mechanics make both of them seem intensely facile and artificial even before they prove to be insufficient to actually take down the chapter's main threat Very few people in Undertale are trying to kill you instead of just toying with you, and only one is outright evil (Flowey is warped by the lack of a SOUL and Asriel is being more possessive than anything, Chara though is...Chara). It’s more or less the same in Deltarune, until the Spade King - he is unequivocally trying to murder you. Undertale didn’t really have villains. Deltarune probably will... flatluigi posted:https://twitter.com/tobyfox/status/1057987819765936128 lol that can be easily faked. but...somehow it makes sense for Toby, knowing what i do about ideas taking up real estate in your head
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Nov 1, 2018 14:43
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and while we're on the subject, don't ever throw away Raslei's manual
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Nov 1, 2018 14:44
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Hang on hang on hang on hang on. What's said at the start, YOU MUST CREATE A VESSEL, which then gets thrown out (supposedly). ... Could Gaster be trying to prevent the Chara ending by forcibly possessing children who have been to Mt. Ebbot by SOULS that have not? It would seem that by letting someone take over Kris, but put them in such a situation that their choices have no effect, you will get the 'pacifist' ending, Kris no longer acts like they used to. If this game is after monsters return overground, then it's possible that Kris was a child who went through Undertale, but did a genocide run and was so possessed by Chara. Maybe by forcing possession of Kris this way, Gaster hopes to prevent Chara from slaughtering everyone, but as we can see from the end, the possession doesn't take.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:46
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Oxxidation posted:and while we're on the subject, don't ever throw away Raslei's manual This is not an evil campaign, I bet you can’t even do that 
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Nov 1, 2018 14:46
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milk moosie posted:lol that can be easily faked. but...somehow it makes sense for Toby, knowing what i do about ideas taking up real estate in your head The deltarune website has been up since at least 2015, so it seems likely
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Nov 1, 2018 14:48
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Samovar posted:f this game is after monsters return overground Is it, though? Although this talk of vessels does remind me that Alphys based very similar research on Gaster’s notes about the same. Terper posted:The deltarune website has been up since at least 2015, so it seems likely well......................synthesis is a funny thing
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Nov 1, 2018 14:48
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Oxxidation posted:and while we're on the subject, don't ever throw away Raslei's manual For anyone who is curious First attempt will have Ralsei go "whoops you dropped this" and hand it back to you. A second attempt will see the pages scattered to the wind. (Ralsei says they'll make a new one.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:49
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the most hosed up part of deltarune is by far bratty and catty not being friends
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Nov 1, 2018 14:52
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Brother Entropy posted:the most hosed up part of deltarune is by far bratty and catty not being friends extremely true aunt catty owns though
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Nov 1, 2018 14:53
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Brother Entropy posted:the most hosed up part of deltarune is by far bratty and catty not being friends Actually it's Alphys thinking Mew Mew 2 is better than Mew Mew 1
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Nov 1, 2018 14:56
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I really like the rearrangement of the characters. Kinda reminds me of Osamu Tezuka’s Star System.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:57
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Snake Maze posted:Actually it's Alphys thinking Mew Mew 2 is better than Mew Mew 1 Not My Alphys.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:57
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Also, another thought: the music in this game is good, but it's just not grabbing me the way Undertale's did. Only the "Field of Hope" music really has staying power in my head.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:58
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Oxxidation posted:hard agree on a lot of what's mentioned here, while Raslei is incorrigibly cute and i would go to the barricades to defend his smile, the way he presents his philosophy and the Dark World's mechanics make both of them seem intensely facile and artificial even before they prove to be insufficient to actually take down the chapter's main threat GunnerJ posted:I'm not emotionally as invested in this game as I was in Undertale and I don't think that's a bad thing. The whole game is an experience in "alienation effect" where it constantly reminds you of what it is so you think about it instead of suspending your disbelief and investing in the characters and their experiences. That's going to matter a lot to what kind of game this is. It's definitely a risky gambit to pull off. When I started playing the game, I felt like the characters were much less well-rounded and the plot much less interesting than Undertale. But it works in the end, when you play through the epilogue and realize what the game is getting at. Also once lancer and susie establish their dynamic, those two rule
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Nov 1, 2018 14:59
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GunnerJ posted:Also, another thought: the music in this game is good, but it's just not grabbing me the way Undertale's did. Only the "Field of Hope" music really has staying power in my head. Music takes time to grow roots.  I’m really liking the music so far, myself.
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Nov 1, 2018 14:59
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