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Gazpacho posted:i think there might be a continuum between "hardly working at all" and "killing yourself" lol YOSPOS: stealing from your employer is cool and good but idk maybe like, apply yourself a bit more dude, those apps aren't gonna fart themselves. If your happy and comfortable at your job then stick around, if you want to apply yourself more but don't want to leave then take on a side project.
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Nov 2, 2018 18:40
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A guy quit and in the exit interview said it was because of me and he couldn't work with me. I'm the lead dev on the team. He sucked and couldn't debug his way out of a paper bag. The team is already getting more done without em. Overall, feels wierd to be hated like that. I was always reaching out to him to help him, but there is a bit more I could have done during his intro period to make sure we understood each other's personalities.
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Nov 2, 2018 18:50
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i guess currentjob is still interviewing b/c i got a last-minute request to fill in for a sick interviewer at 4pm on this friday afternoon
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Nov 2, 2018 19:02
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Not even close to an offer yet or anything, but job I'm interviewing for says their expected annual payout is about 95k with 15% bonus (screener says its rare not to get the full bonus, but they would say that) and $10k in stock (the company is public and healthy) vested over three years, whatever that precisely means (just a screening so i haven't poked for deets yet) Right now I make about 92k without the bonus or stock so it's a net improvement no matter how I slice it, I just don't know how much it really is except by the literal value of the numbers given, which i'm sure they'd claw back if they could, so: what's the practical value there, where are the traps, and should i negotiate for anything in particular if i get that far in the interview process?
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Nov 2, 2018 19:07
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Ciaphas posted:Not even close to an offer yet or anything, but job I'm interviewing for says their expected annual payout is about 95k with 15% bonus (screener says its rare not to get the full bonus, but they would say that) and $10k in stock (the company is public and healthy) vested over three years, whatever that precisely means (just a screening so i haven't poked for deets yet) you can break the 6 figgie mark in salary alone, ciaphas i believe in you (when you get the offer, if you get an offer, try counteroffering for 140k, or at least like 125k if you get the heebie-jeebies)
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Nov 2, 2018 19:12
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KoRMaK posted:A guy quit and in the exit interview said it was because of me and he couldn't work with me. I'm the lead dev on the team. maybe you were being a dick about offering help it's a common personality trait male nerds tend to share
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Nov 2, 2018 19:14
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i get the feeling that giant tech company means you have to have to pretend to work for 10 hours a day instead of 8 which tbh does sound exhausting
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Nov 2, 2018 19:16
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jesus WEP posted:i get the feeling that giant tech company means you have to have to pretend to work for 10 hours a day instead of 8 which tbh does sound exhausting I get in at like 1015 and leave around 4. occasionally I might log in at night during a crunch time. people doing more than that are easily led chumps with lovely bosses.
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Nov 2, 2018 19:18
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I work at a small potatoes tech shop and it seems like the 10 to 4 is pretty common for a lot of the teams here.
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Nov 2, 2018 19:22
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there was a period in my life where i was on 3 days, 14 hours a day, off 4 it was pretty interesting, i can't recommend it very much, but i can deffo recommend the 2 days 14 hours a day i did afterwards
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Nov 2, 2018 19:25
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in a tech workplace it is generally pretty hard to make people feel safe asking for or receiving help (something about a field dominated by marginally or poorly socialized men + one-upsmanship) but that's something I'm looking for in a workplace / looking to support wherever I go a dude was let go like two weeks ago and he made a point on his way out of thanking me. inside my head I was like "I remember being patient and helpful but Jesus I only helped you twice what a loving desert this workplace is"
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Nov 2, 2018 19:26
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i'm so glad that the culture at my current job is so overwhelmingly positive because it's very common for companies to have a toxic relationship between sales/consulting/engineering yesterday i was running an upgrade for our client and ran into all sorts of pitfalls. jumped into the product's chatroom and within minutes had two of their engineers on a webex poking through our project and not only fixing things- taking down notes of everything so that they can fix their upgrade tool so that the next person to run through this doesn't have these problems. and get this- during the meeting a third engineer jumped in because he'd gotten back from lunch and wanted to help as well. they expect to have the fixes for the issues i ran into in the build early next week it's such a breath of fresh air
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Nov 2, 2018 19:35
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bob dobbs is dead posted:you can break the 6 figgie mark in salary alone, ciaphas i believe in you i'll try that, thanks though i have to stress this is just a phone screening, no expectation of getting that far yet (but it'd be nice) tbh i'd even take a pay cut to escape helljob but i've no right to complain about that i guess, heh
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Nov 2, 2018 19:42
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jit bull transpile posted:maybe you were being a dick about offering help men are the worst, am i right!!
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Nov 2, 2018 20:02
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jit bull transpile posted:maybe you were being a dick about offering help Stop being a sexist rear end in a top hat. Sometimes people are just incompetent and throw other more competent colleagues under the bus to cover it up.
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Nov 2, 2018 20:35
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karms posted:men are the worst, am i right!! you are
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Nov 2, 2018 20:42
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qhat posted:Stop being a sexist rear end in a top hat. Sometimes people are just incompetent and throw other more competent colleagues under the bus to cover it up. lol imagine defending male nerds while posting in YOSPOS
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Nov 2, 2018 20:52
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bob dobbs is dead posted:you can break the 6 figgie mark in salary alone, ciaphas i believe in you those numbers seem aggressive, but the spirit is right. always counteroffer the first number worst that can happen is they say "nah this was our final offer." they're not gonna walk away just because you dared to ask
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Nov 2, 2018 21:03
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:those numbers seem aggressive, but the spirit is right. always counteroffer the first number about those other pieces of financial compensation (i'm gonna ignore bennies for the moment, again just phone screening stage): should i factor in that 15% bonus and $10k stock somehow or be aware of any traps with them, or just value them at $0 and be done
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Nov 2, 2018 21:05
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Stock is only fake compensation if your company is also fake. If they gave you real publicly traded stock you can value it at it's number value because you can actually sell it, minus any associated taxes
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Nov 2, 2018 21:07
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Ciaphas posted:should i factor in that 15% + $10k stock somehow or be aware of any traps with them, or just value them at $0 and be done the stock is a firm promise. you stay at the company for your three years, you will receive the stock. it's public stock, so it's almost certainly worth something, too. the bonus is very much industry- and firm-specific. i know if i didn't get at least 100% of my bonus target in a given year, i'd be gone in a heartbeat. they would essentially be asking me to leave. i work for a large financial firm, so that's just how things are done. at one of my past jobs they would promise you any amount of bonus target you asked for, because the normal payout was $0. lol. that was how things were done there. nobody got a bonus on a reliable basis. unless you have some friends at the target company, i'm not sure you can get any reliable information about the odds of getting paid that bonus
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Nov 2, 2018 21:07
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PokeJoe posted:Stock is only fake compensation if your company is also fake. If they gave you real publicly traded stock you can value it at it's number value because you can actually sell it, minus any associated taxes yeah. a public stock can go up or down but it is definitely worth something. (options, of course, can be worth $0, if the stock price doesn't do the right thing. but you made it sound like it was a grant, not options.)
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Nov 2, 2018 21:10
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i've only been here for a month now but i'm pretty sure joining a company with a zero tolerance for toxic dudebros and a soft-spoken and helpful engineering culture was the best thing i ever done
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Nov 2, 2018 21:11
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TheFluff posted:i've only been here for a month now but i'm pretty sure joining a company with a zero tolerance for toxic dudebros and a soft-spoken and helpful engineering culture was the best thing i ever done people treating each other like human beings is an underrated attribute in a workplace
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Nov 2, 2018 21:12
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:yeah. a public stock can go up or down but it is definitely worth something. afaik it is a grant and not options, yes, 1/3 vested at each anniversary after the grant until 100% vested. it was just ten thousand foot deets tho, i'll be sure to check
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Nov 2, 2018 21:13
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Ciaphas posted:afaik it is a grant and not options, yes, 1/3 vested at each anniversary. it was just ten thousand foot deets tho, i'll be sure to check i wouldn't sweat it too hard on the stock grant. it's a small part of your total comp, and any time you spend talking about legal minutia on a part that isn't really negotiable is time spent NOT negotiating on what actually matters get paid
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Nov 2, 2018 21:14
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rockin. thanks for the info we'll see if it even comes up of course. i was just thinking about it after almost remembering to never reveal salary (i say almost because i refused to mention my current pay but i did mention i'm unbonused, rip) during that screening so i figured i'd check on other rules of getting through this interview nonsense
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Nov 2, 2018 21:16
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yeah bonuses are entirely dependent on the company and like bsd said unless you have someone on the inside it's basically impossible to know until you've worked there for a year or two. my last job the bonus was essentially impossible to get. it only paid out once a year and you had to hit at least 90% utilization for the entire year to get a pittance. it scaled from there where it didn't become worth anything unless you worked consistent 50-60 hour weeks for the entire year. it was designed to gently caress you because if you had a single bad month then say good bye to your bonus. (almost everyone has the occasional bad month). this is how poo poo companies operate current job the bonus is quarterly and starts at 50% utilization and then ramps linearly to 133%. their very simply logic is that if you're going over 133% then gently caress you take a god damned break before you kill yourself, moron. these bonuses can essentially be counted as part of your compensation due to how easy it is to get. as long as you're doing your job you're getting it. it also serves as a way to slightly cut compensation to people who are probably on the way out anyways. miss one quarter- eh, poo poo happens. miss two quarters- something's up. miss three quarters- hope you've been polishing your resume i've been here for about two and a half years and only missed one quarter so far. management gave me a 'spot bonus' which covered it and then some to send a clear message that i was performing fine we just had a wonky pipeline that quarter. this is how good companies operate so in terms of interviewing: assume the bonus is zero or highly unlikely until you have better information to go on. PIZZA.BAT fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Nov 2, 2018 |
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Nov 2, 2018 21:18
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Rex-Goliath posted:current job the bonus is quarterly and starts at 50% utilization and then ramps linearly to 133%. their very simply logic is that if you're going over 133% then gently caress you take a god damned break before you kill yourself, moron. q: 133% would mean averaging 53.3 hrs / week billed to clients? that does sound pretty aggressive (unless it's acceptable to bill time not spent specifically on client poo poo to clients, which, lol) not going to think too hard about the billing targets of the lawyers in the waffle family.
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Nov 2, 2018 21:33
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:people treating each other like human beings is an underrated attribute in a workplace 
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Nov 2, 2018 21:33
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prisoner of waffles posted:q: 133% would mean averaging 53.3 hrs / week billed to clients? that does sound pretty aggressive (unless it's acceptable to bill time not spent specifically on client poo poo to clients, which, lol) only billable hours matter. just because the dipshit client is letting you go 60 hours a week for a whole quarter doesn't mean the company will reward you for it there are rare exceptions for hell projects where an army of consultants death march on some huge project but like i said management is good at doling out spot bonuses for those
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Nov 2, 2018 21:43
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welp, my job search is finally over. took about 2 months from start to finish, though it helped that i wasn't working during that time. ended up doing 7 onsites and getting 4 offers. now i'm moving forward with a Big Tech Co that's offering 185k base/15% bonus/80k signing/500k rsus (for reference this is NYC). as you can imagine i'm REALLY happy about that, my last job was a flat 130k, and i've come a long way from my first job six years ago making 60k. time to crack open a cold beer or 5
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Nov 2, 2018 22:10
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jit bull transpile posted:maybe you were being a dick about offering help
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Nov 2, 2018 22:11
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Pie Colony posted:welp, my job search is finally over. took about 2 months from start to finish, though it helped that i wasn't working during that time. ended up doing 7 onsites and getting 4 offers. now i'm moving forward with a Big Tech Co that's offering 185k base/15% bonus/80k signing/500k rsus (for reference this is NYC). as you can imagine i'm REALLY happy about that, my last job was a flat 130k, and i've come a long way from my first job six years ago making 60k. time to crack open a cold beer or 5 
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Nov 2, 2018 22:16
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KoRMaK posted:I'm very open to that idea, but I don't think I was a dick about offering. I was always really supportive of helping them. I was very very patient with them, but I will say I wasn't absolutely perfect. It was a very trying relationship. They didn't know anything about how like classes or instances worked, or how variables and their scopes were defined, which means they basically misrepresented themselves in the interview. So anyway, whatever it was I was tooooo much of a dick from his perspective. But for me, and the other devs that had to work with him, they said I demonstrated really good patience. uhh yeah, it sounds like the root issue is that the person did not have the foundational knowledge they were supposed to. did y'all have a clear moment of "you are supposed to already know this stuff" / "we have a problem and you need to study up on some poo poo" type communications?
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Nov 2, 2018 22:19
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TheFluff posted:i've only been here for a month now but i'm pretty sure joining a company with a zero tolerance for toxic dudebros and a soft-spoken and helpful engineering culture was the best thing i ever done 3 months for me, but extremely same
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Nov 2, 2018 22:24
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just to be clear you're not going to double a $160k salary as a bay area computer toucher at a tech giant, they pay market rates and immigrants will eat your lunch
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Nov 2, 2018 22:28
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Gazpacho posted:just to be clear you're not going to double a $160k salary as a bay area computer toucher at a tech giant, they pay market rates and immigrants will eat your lunch well i might not double the salary but maybe i could get something more like what Pie Colony just posted, where after a few years of vesting i would have effectively doubled (or more) my yearly income at a non-bigtech-co you don't get 500k of rsus because they can't just print more special google money to hand to you
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Nov 2, 2018 22:32
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Gazpacho posted:just to be clear you're not going to double a $160k salary as a bay area computer toucher at a tech giant, they pay market rates and immigrants will eat your lunch Dan Luu wrote in 2016: quote:The numbers will vary depending on circumstances, but we can do a back of the envelope calculation and adjust for circumstances afterwards. Median income in the U.S. is about $30k/yr. The somewhat bogus zeroth order lifetime earnings approximation I'll use is $30k * 40 = $1.2M. A new grad at Google/FB/Amazon with a lowball offer will have a total comp (salary + bonus + equity) of $130k/yr. According to glassdoor's current numbers, someone who makes it to T5/senior at Google should have a total comp of around $250k/yr. These are fairly conservative numbers (1).
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Nov 2, 2018 22:56
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Pie Colony posted:welp, my job search is finally over. took about 2 months from start to finish, though it helped that i wasn't working during that time. ended up doing 7 onsites and getting 4 offers. now i'm moving forward with a Big Tech Co that's offering 185k base/15% bonus/80k signing/500k rsus (for reference this is NYC). as you can imagine i'm REALLY happy about that, my last job was a flat 130k, and i've come a long way from my first job six years ago making 60k. time to crack open a cold beer or 5 drat dude, congrats.
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Nov 2, 2018 23:10
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